KremlinGate

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josh

NDPP wrote:

It looks like basically the same old nonsense repackaged to me*, but obviously a strategically timed release to sabotage the Trump-Putin summit meeting.

*Former CIA Ray McGovern: 'The Russian Hack' is an Inside Job

https://gosint.wordpress.com/2017/08/04/former-cia-ray-mcgovern-the-russ...

"The purported 'hack' of the DNC by Guccifer 2.0 was not a hack, by Russia or anyone else. Rather it originated with a copy (onto an external device - a thumb drive, for example) by an insider. The data was leaked after being doctored with a cut-and-paste job to implicate Russia. We do not know who or what the murky Guccifer 2.0 is. You may wish to ask the FBI..."

I'm with Chomsky..

 "Russian meddling in our election? Well, that has most of the world cracking up with laughter."  -  Chomsky

https://youtu.be/edC5OjBK5zU

https://goo.gl/images/x75JcM

NorthReport
NorthReport

Usually I have little use for Coyne’s comments but here he is dead on. What the fuck is the matter with America to tolerate this kind of shit behaviour from Trump

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/andrew-coyne-is-this-the-behaviour-of-a-government-that-had-nothing-to-hide/amp

NDPP

In Run-Up to Trump-Putin Summit, Mueller Charges 12 Russian Officers With DNC Email Hack

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/07/14/muel-j14.html

"...Rosenstein acknowledged that the indictment included no charges of collusion between any American citizens and the alleged Russian hackers. He added 'There is no allegation that the conspiracy changed the vote count or affected any election result."

 

Summitgate and the Campaign vs 'Peace'

https://t.co/PS9CqYA6iK

"Not surprisingly, Trump's meetings with NATO and Putin are being portrayed as ominous events by Russiagaters..."

NDPP

What is an Ideal Outcome of Trump-Russia Meeting? Russian FM Tells Larry King (and vid)

https://on.rt.com/9a3x

"Dialogue is required."

josh

These charges didn’t.  That’s how you build a case, step by step.  You establish the act.  Then you work to the center.  The people indicted didn’t just decide to do it on their own.

Now that the truth of the Russian hacking has been established, it is absurd for Trump to meet Putin.  No other president would have done so.  But being a Russian asset, Trump has other priorities.

voice of the damned

NorthReport wrote:

What the fuck is the matter with America to tolerate this kind of shit behaviour from Trump

Well, in fairness, there's not a lot that "America" can do, at this point. Trump is the president, and hasn't been convicted of anything illegal(as of yet), so will probably continue to sit in the Oval Office for the foreseeable future.

I don't imagine that there are a lot of Democratic voters from 2016 who will be in much of a mood to start "tolerating" Trump in 2020, since he's pretty much turned out to be as bad as they thought he would be, if not worse. If the Dems can pull in a contingent of erstwhile Republican voters put off by Trump's harebrained antics(especially swing voters from the Rust Belt), that might prove to be the end of the US electorate's "tolerance".

josh

Trump doesn’t have to be convicted of anything to be impeached.  In fact the general argument is that a president can’t be indicted while in office.

NDPP

Clinging To Collusion...

https://consortiumnews.com/2018/07/14/clinging-to-collusion-why-evidence...

"Why evidence will probably never be produced in the indictments of 'Russian Agents'..."

josh

Trump meeting his handler today

Image result for trump puppet putin

josh

And he dances on his string so well even Putin must be embarassed.

https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/1018886249279557632

NDPP

Peace Talk Between Nuclear Superpowers Offends America's Assholes and Morons

https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1018847396573278210

Communication between nuclear superpowers who are currently engaged in nuclear brinksmanship with each other can only be a good thing.

josh

Nuclear brinkmanship?  Have we flashed back to October 1962 with anyone being told?

josh

 "I just have no words. As press in this room, we are all sitting in here speechless and stunned...While Putin spoke forcefully, lying, Trump nodded along. There’s no way of sugar coating or spinning this."

https://www.axios.com/putin-claims-us-wrong-election-interference-e3e8a4ad-53d1-4c8a-8ed0-5781cdcae7f3.html?

NDPP

'No Collusion, I Didn't Know Putin To Collude With Him': Trump Says After Talks in Helsinki

https://on.rt.com/9aew

"President Donald Trump hailed 'deeply productive dialogue' with his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin and asserted that there was no collusion between his campaign and Russia in 2016, while standing next to the Russian leader. 'There was no collusion,' Trump told reporters. 'I didn't know the President, there was nobody to collude with..."

 

If Mueller Investigation Sends Official Request To Question Suspects, Russia Will Do That- Putin (and vid)

https://on.rt.com/9aew

"We can even make another step forward, we can also invite US official representatives - including members of the Mueller probe - to be present during the questioning,' Putin said. Russia would, however, expect for such cooperation to be a 'two-way street,' including the US to allow Moscow 'to question these officials, including from the security services that we believe are behind illegal activities on the territory of the Russian Federation with the presence of our investigators,' Putin said.

Putin proceeded to speak about the Hermitage Capital case, noting that according to Russian investigators, business associates of CEO William Browder illegally earned more than $1.5 billion. 'They didn't pay a cent of taxes but they transferred the money to the US and they also donated $400 million to the Clinton campaign - $400 million. They might have done it legally, but they earned that money illegally,' Putin said.

The Russian President stated that there is evidence to believe that some within the US security services helped Browder to 'conduct these illegal transfers.' Browder, the CEO of Hermitage Capital, made billions during Russia's 'shock therapy' in the '90s. Hermitage has repeatedly been investigated for tax fraud..."

josh

They sent a huge amount of money — $400 million — as a contribution to the campaign of Hillary Clinton. Well, that’s a personal case. It might have been legal, the contribution itself, but the way the money was earned was illegal.”

There is no record of Browder, or any entity connected to him, making a $400 million donation to Hillary Clinton’s campaign (which would be an extraordinary violation of campaign-finance law). There are, however, many infamous records of a meeting between the Trump campaign and Russian nationals — in which the latter offered the former “dirt” on Hillary Clinton in exchange for a commitment to roll back the Magnitsky Act.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/trump-u-s-russia-relations-will-improve-after-summit.html

josh

Russian national charged with being an unregistered agent in possible NRA connection.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheJusticeDept/status/1018929623877541889

 

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josh
NDPP

Media Lens: 'It really is like witnessing a mass nervous breakdown'

https://twitter.com/medialens/status/1019259156228960256

"The unhinged rhetoric of American liberals and neocons over Donald Trump's meeting with Vladimir Putin in Helsinki is deeply repugnant and strangely disorienting."

 

Fox Helsinki Interviews: Trump and Putin, July 16, 2018

Donald Trump

https://youtu.be/XfS2n21Cnpo

Vladimir Putin

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/16/putin-in-fox-news-interview-d...

josh

Posting Fox “News”?  And here I thought you couldn’t post any more blatant propaganda than RT.

DaveW

very odd -- in years of lurking here, never agreed with NDPP on anything; but here, the hysteria is just crazy and crosses party lines;

as Mueller said in his indictments of Feb. 16th: "no American wittingly participated" in the 13-man Internet Research Agency efforts to influence the 2016 US elections

by contrast, Hillary purchased "research" that was meant to tie Trump somehow to Russia; baseless, as far as I can see, but it sparked a hysteria.

Time to put up or shut up, all you anti-Russia hysterics.

josh

Hysterics?  You have distinguished support.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1019225830298456066

 As for putting up, I think Bob Mueller did that last Friday,

Pogo Pogo's picture

DaveW wrote:

very odd -- in years of lurking here, never agreed with NDPP on anything; but here, the hysteria is just crazy and crosses party lines;

as Mueller said in his indictments of Feb. 16th: "no American wittingly participated" in the 13-man Internet Research Agency efforts to influence the 2016 US elections

by contrast, Hillary purchased "research" that was meant to tie Trump somehow to Russia; baseless, as far as I can see, but it sparked a hysteria.

Time to put up or shut up, all you anti-Russia hysterics.

  Just curious why you reached back to February 16th instead of the more recent indictment where Roger Stone and Wikileaks were clearly indicated as being involved (just not included in that set of charges).  Top that off with the arrest of Maria Butina and the revelations of her influence peddling within the NRA.  

Kind of admire you for standing up for NDPP, but frankly the case for influence by Russia, Israel, Saudi Arabia and others is getting very compelling.

Just to be clear, I have no doubt the US has done the same and worse.  Nation states are almost by definition cut-throat entities.

NDPP

Detente Bad, Cold War Good

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/07/detente-bad-cold-war-good/

"The entire 'liberal' media and political establishment of the Western world reveals its militaristic, authoritarian soul today, with the screaming and hysterical attacks on the very prospect of detente with Russia. Peace apparently is a terrible thing, a renewed arms race with quite literally trillions of dollars pumped into the military industrial complex and hundreds of thousands dying in proxy wars, is apparently the 'liberal' stance.

The war-hawks who were devastated by the loss of champion killer Hillary now see the prospecct of their very worst fear coming true. This very worst fear is the outbreak of peace and international treaties of arms control. Hence the media and political establishment today has reached peaks of hysteria never seen before. Pursuing peace is 'treason' and the faux-left now stands starkly exposed."

Pogo Pogo's picture

So is Trump the corporate president fighting against climate change and health standards that we must vilify or is he the champion of peace working with Russia, the last bastion of sanity standing against evil empires the world over.

You seem to have both bases covered.

bekayne

THERE WAS NO COLUSION

josh

NDPP wrote:

Detente Bad, Cold War Good

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/07/detente-bad-cold-war-good/

"The entire 'liberal' media and political establishment of the Western world reveals its militaristic, authoritarian soul today, with the screaming and hysterical attacks on the very prospect of detente with Russia. Peace apparently is a terrible thing, a renewed arms race with quite literally trillions of dollars pumped into the military industrial complex and hundreds of thousands dying in proxy wars, is apparently the 'liberal' stance.

The war-hawks who were devastated by the loss of champion killer Hillary now see the prospecct of their very worst fear coming true. This very worst fear is the outbreak of peace and international treaties of arms control. Hence the media and political establishment today has reached peaks of hysteria never seen before. Pursuing peace is 'treason' and the faux-left now stands starkly exposed."

Notice the false dichotomy.  We have to choose between peace and the truth.  The lackeys have moved on from claiming that the Russians didn’t break into the DNC, like the Watergate burglars, But now are saying, “don’t talk about it.  World peace is at stake.”  What utter garbage they’re peddling.

josh

bekayne wrote:

THERE WAS NO COLUSION

WITCHHUNT!

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

josh wrote:

Nuclear brinkmanship?  Have we flashed back to October 1962 with anyone being told?

The new nukes in Eastern Europe are more dangerous than the Cuban missles ever were. I guess you believe that Russia should accept that NATO has turned the clock back to 1962 style brinkmanship and bow to the NATO banksters. Our great leaders can then appoint a interim government just like it did after the fall of the Wall. After all the Russian people are nostalgic for that open era when Western businessmen flooded into the old SSR's to show them how to really steal from the people.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

What I find hilarious is that Josh and the other attack dogs have made Putin out to be some kind of super intelligent mastermind who micro manages his evil campaigns. I too watched a lot of cartoons growing up so I am very familiar with the plot line.

josh

Erect a straw man.  Then knock it down.  Impressive.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

josh wrote:

bekayne wrote:

THERE WAS NO COLUSION

WITCHHUNT!

I didn't erect it.

NorthReport
Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Currently, the U.S. has around 200 B61 free-fall gravity bombs in Europe. These are not new weapons and they have been there for years.

Saying they are putting the world into more danger than what went down in the Cuban missle crisis is some serious darma queen shit.

bekayne

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Currently, the U.S. has around 200 B61 free-fall gravity bombs in Europe. These are not new weapons and they have been there for years.

Saying they are putting the world into more danger than what went down in the Cuban missle crisis is some serious darma queen shit.

But...but... Stephen Cohen says it is!

NorthReport

Russia must have some serious shit on Trump and some of the GOP but Trump being an authority on the matter must know by now the only way to stand up to a bully or blackmailer is to stand up to him!

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NDPP

After Helsinki, Democrats Incite 'Deep State' Action Against Trump

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/07/17/pers-j17.html

Monday's meeting in Helsinki has unleashed a torrent of wild denunciations that verge on a direct appeal to the military and intelligence agencies to take action to force Donald Trump's removal from the White House. The Democratic Party, the corporate media and leading figures with the US military and intelligence apparatus have joined in branding Trump a traitor who is functioning as an agent of the Kremlin.

Trump and his cohorts have many crimes to answer for. But the objectives that motivate the anti-Trump hysteria and the media and the conspiratorial methods to which the Democrats are resorting are utterly reactionary..."

 

"The anti-Trump 'Resistance' movement is the Mona Lisa of psyops, the Last Supper of propaganda. It's managed to get every quasi-lefty in the Western world to line up with the CIA, FBI, NSA and NATO, and somehow still believe they're 'anti-establishment."

https://twitter.com/OffGuardian0/status/1019307608732258305

"There's a sucker born every minute." - PT Barnum

josh
bekayne

NDPP wrote:

 

"The anti-Trump 'Resistance' movement is the Mona Lisa of psyops, the Last Supper of propaganda. It's managed to get every quasi-lefty in the Western world to line up with the CIA, FBI, NSA and NATO, and somehow still believe they're 'anti-establishment."

https://twitter.com/OffGuardian0/status/1019307608732258305

"There's a sucker born every minute." - PT Barnum

As opposed to lining up with the right wing governments of Putin and Trump.

NDPP

"The Far-Right's primary domestic political tactic during the Cold War was to accuse those wanting decreased US/Russia hostilities of being apologists for, or supporters of Russian aggression & domestic repression. It's stunning how mainstream this slimy premise has become."

https://twitter.com/ggreeenwald/status/1019569779621990400

 

Musings From Margins: The NATO & Putin Summits, Plus High Crimes, Misdemeanors and Liberal Madness

https://t.co/g3a6X8MCBD

"...Does it have anything to do with the issue of collusion, of course not. But none of this really had anything to do with collusion, it was and is a classic disinformation campaign meant to de-legitimize and eventually force from office someone who the elite never dreamed could have won because if they did they would not have promoted him through their media outlets.

There seems to be a complete psychotic break with reality in the US [and dutifully imitated in Canada] as a result of the Trump-Putin summit. The good thing about all this is that the liberals posing as radicals have been exposed and their sentimental pro-empire, pro-American proclivities revealed..."

e.g. Charlie Angus NDP on Twitter: WaPo 'succinct and articulate'

https://twitter.com/CharlieAngusNDP/status/1019201624772956160

"As a wise man once said: Stupid is as stupid does..."

We agree.

Unbiased

Love the smell of Kool Aid in the morning.
This is a sad and depressing thread for me.

DaveW wrote:

very odd -- in years of lurking here, never agreed with NDPP on anything; but here, the hysteria is just crazy and crosses party lines;

...

Time to put up or shut up, all you anti-Russia hysterics.


Personally, I generally agree with NDPP. :)
But I do agree with Your sentiment here. I am also a long time lurker and this seems to be getting out of control.
It's so sad to see the "fact slinging" back and forth, across what should be a non-existent fence, with very little personal input. This is not a conversation; it is a link war.

And speaking of links...

josh wrote:

And he dances on his string so well even Putin must be embarassed.

https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/1018886249279557632

Nice link to another echochamber.
These people are not leftists in any way I can make sense of. Democrats are not the left anymore and stopped being so a long time ago; though with their social justice rhetoric they almost pass for it.

On the other hand...
If we are sparring with links.

NDPP wrote:

Media Lens: 'It really is like witnessing a mass nervous breakdown'

https://twitter.com/medialens/status/1019259156228960256

"The unhinged rhetoric of American liberals and neocons over Donald Trump's meeting with Vladimir Putin in Helsinki is deeply repugnant and strangely disorienting."

That Twitter post might contain an echo chamber too, but I have usually enjoyed George Galloway's take on things. Anyone Stephen Harper messed with is ok with me.

And WTF is an "American liberal" ? Would that be a Democrat ?

I can't remember the last time I posted here.

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