KremlinGate

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Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

"The attempt to blame the electoral insurgencies in the United States' two ruling parties on Russian interference, rather than massive social inequality - the worst in the industrialized world - is a desperate ploy. The courtiers in the corporate press are working feverishly day and night to distract us from reality..."

The Cost of Resistance  -  by Chris Hedges

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-cost-of-resistance/

Does it have to be only one or the other -- or can it be a bit of column a and a bit of column b.

I think the inequity is the driving cause certainly but it appears that the interference is an attempt to leverage it and increase it to the ends of the country interfering.

This is in the  imperial playbook. The fact that Russia appears to be playing it against the US is angering US citizens since they normally like to be the one using the tactic against others rather than having it brought home to them.

NorthReport

Trump, via Sessions, is at it again.

AT&T, Time Warner under pressure to dump CNN

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/08/att-time-warner-dump-cnn-24469...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
"The attempt to blame the electoral insurgencies in the United States' two ruling parties on Russian interference, rather than massive social inequality - the worst in the industrialized world - is a desperate ploy.

Did that social inequality begin in 2016?

Or else why was it not a factor before that?

voice of the damned

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
"The attempt to blame the electoral insurgencies in the United States' two ruling parties on Russian interference, rather than massive social inequality - the worst in the industrialized world - is a desperate ploy.

Did that social inequality begin in 2016?

Or else why was it not a factor before that?

I do think social inequality played a role in convicing certain low-income swing-state voters to switch to the GOP this time around. And the reason they didn't do it before was that no GOP candidate had hit upon the idea of making factory-closures(and allied issues) an aspect of his platform(likely because they knew it wasn't anywhere close to a keepable promise). Trump managed to successfully portray himself as something other than a typical Republican.

But apart from that, no. The lifelong Republican voters who went for Trump this time around were almost certainly not motivated by concern for inequality, at least not in any way that progressives would recognize.

A third group, swing voter concerned about Hillary's supposed lack of ethics, might have been influenced by the possibly Russia-hacked leaks.

NDPP

**'Zero Evidence' That Russia Hacked DNC says NSA Whistleblower (and vid - MUST WATCH)**

https://on.rt.com/8rsl

"In an interview with RT America host Ed Schultz on Wednesday, Binney said tests have 'clearly showed' the DNC was not hacked by Russia before the 2016 presidential election, but that the data was downloaded locally. Binney met with CIA director Mike Pompeo on Wednesday..."

josh

Putin, and his minions, and Trump, and his minions, trying desperately to cover their tracks.  Why doesn't Fox and RT just merge.  They could rename the combo, FART.

JKR

NDPP wrote:
 **'Zero Evidence' That Russia Hacked DNC says NSA Whistleblower (and vid - MUST WATCH)**

It will be interesting to see what NDPP comes up with if the legal investigations provide more evidence and indictments against Trump and his supporters.

voice of the damned

JKR wrote:

NDPP wrote:
 **'Zero Evidence' That Russia Hacked DNC says NSA Whistleblower (and vid - MUST WATCH)**

It will be interesting to see what NDPP comes up with if the legal investigations provide more evidence and indictments against Trump and his supporters.

Well, I think if you went into the debate emotionally commited to the idea that there could not possibly have been any collusion, you'll say that Mueller and company are all a bunch of shills for the corporate and/or the globalist elite(depending whether you're more on the Counterpunch or the Infowars end of the spectrum), and so of course his indictments are all just the biggest hoax since the Gulf Of Tonkin or the moon landing(again, depending).

Personally, I'd call myself a "soft collusionist" on this. I think Trump himself believed that Russia was trying to influence the campaign, and that he was happy for this alleged intervention, and trying to encourage more of it, possibly through legally questionable means. Whether or not that proves that Russia actually hacked e-mails, or took him up on his offers of co-operation, I don't know.

I do know that if there was no evidence of Russian involvement, the CIA must REALLY hate Trump, to undermine his presidency by making up collusion-stories out of thin air. That would be a pretty unprecedencted degree of animosity between the intelligence community and the White House(no, I don't subscribe to CIA Kennedy asassination theories). Almost as big an issue as real Trump-Russia collusion would be.

Sean in Ottawa

The Zero evidence smacks of the kind of politics current in the US -- everyone is taking sides as there is no middle and the facts are divided based on convenience. This is reflected in all organizations including the national ones. Objectivity is mostly gone.

A person in the CIA saying there is zero evidence from the CIA is lying. There is an open investigation and not everyone is party to all the information so anyone in the CIA would know they do not have all the facts that exist.

I hate sweeping statements but when made they certainly serve to expose the speaker as being uninformed or less than honest.

josh

Disguised Russian agents on Twitter rushed to deflect scandalous news about Donald Trump just before last year’s presidential election while straining to refocus criticism on the mainstream media and Hillary Clinton’s campaign, according to an Associated Press analysis of since-deleted accounts.

Tweets by Russia-backed accounts such as “America_1st_” and “BatonRougeVoice” on Oct. 7, 2016, actively pivoted away from news of an audio recording in which Trump made crude comments about groping women, and instead touted damaging emails hacked from Clinton’s campaign chairman John Podesta.

. . . .

Within an hour of the Post’s story, WikiLeaks unleashed its own bombshell about hacked email from Podesta’s account, a release the Russian accounts had been foreshadowing for days.

https://apnews.com/fc9ab2b0bbc34f11bc10714100318ae1

bekayne

JKR wrote:

NDPP wrote:
 **'Zero Evidence' That Russia Hacked DNC says NSA Whistleblower (and vid - MUST WATCH)**

It will be interesting to see what NDPP comes up with if the legal investigations provide more evidence and indictments against Trump and his supporters.

Re-running the same articles over again.

Mobo2000

VOTD says :  "I do know that if there was no evidence of Russian involvement, the CIA must REALLY hate Trump, to undermine his presidency by making up collusion-stories out of thin air. That would be a pretty unprecedencted degree of animosity between the intelligence community and the White House(no, I don't subscribe to CIA Kennedy asassination theories). "

It is pretty clear the CIA (or more broadly the American security establishment) didn't want Trump as a candidate.   Recall the former heads of several intelligence agencies speaking out against him and writing op-eds before the election.  The two primary reasons were his desire for rapproachment with Russia and his open questioning of the purpose and usefulness of NATO.   Also his realpolitik statements on the use of American power ("We've killed children too" ) undermined the benevolent global cop/spreader of democracy narrative that is so instrumental to keeping liberals onboard for the next war.  

And we saw how that played out -- he was sat down by some generals and told he must respond to Syria "using" chemical weapons, and he did.   One could see this as him flip-flopping, or one could see this as Trump finding out who actually makes the foreign policy decisions.

And here we are a year later, discussing in other threads the possibility of NATO going to war with Russia.   

That the military/intelligence community in the US has undermined Trump's presidency on these issues, with unprecedented amounts of leaks and the various continuing investigations and survellience of his campaign team and advisors is not in doubt.   If that's a good thing depends on which team you are on.   But if you are on team "open democracy", then you are losing either way.  

RE: Trump and Russia collusion - I don't think there was collusion that rose to the level of criminality by any impartial standard, but I suppose there could be.   And I imagine the same charges could be brought against any number of other candidates and current politicians, especially Clinton.  

voice of the damned

Mobo:

Yeah, I'd assume that Trump's previous heterodoxy on foreign-policy would have provoked a pretty negative reaction in some quarters. But still, outright and total fabrication of evidence against a sitting POTUS would be pretty out-there, in terms of what we could normally expect from US intellience agencies.

Jimmy Carter actually had a plan, which he tried to implement, for withdrawing troops from the Korean peninsula. This was opposed by pretty much everyone in the foreign-policy establishment(not to mention the South Korean government of the day), but they carried on with their orders nonetheless, until Carter himself reversed course after being shown a surveillance photograph supposedly proving that North Korea had a larger army than previously assumed.

Apparently, Carter himself suspects that the photos were doctored, and I suppose it's possible that intellgence agents would do that to their own president. But they never went as far as to just sit down and make up fake stuff about him being a North Korean agent.

This book contains a brief discussion of Carter's thwarted withdrawal plan...

http://tinyurl.com/yc8jjsyg

NorthReport

They deserve each other, and both represent unfiltered BS. Good one josh!

josh wrote:

Putin, and his minions, and Trump, and his minions, trying desperately to cover their tracks.  Why doesn't Fox and RT just merge.  They could rename the combo, FART.

NorthReport
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Stephen Miller, James Comey and the Mystery of the Secret Hour

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/stephen-miller-james-comey-and-the-m...

NorthReport
NDPP

Those Magical, Fantastical Russians vs US Empire  -   by Glen Ford

https://blackagendareport.com/those-magical-fantastical-russians-vs-us-e...

"The only people that can make Russiagate fade away are the ones that invented it in the first place: the spooks, Wall Street Democrats and institutional servants of capital that gathered in Hillary Clinton's overstuffed campaign tent, last year, to plot the next move of a beleagured US empire..."

NorthReport
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NorthReport
bekayne

Mobo2000 wrote:

VOTD says :  "I do know that if there was no evidence of Russian involvement, the CIA must REALLY hate Trump, to undermine his presidency by making up collusion-stories out of thin air. That would be a pretty unprecedencted degree of animosity between the intelligence community and the White House(no, I don't subscribe to CIA Kennedy asassination theories). "

It is pretty clear the CIA (or more broadly the American security establishment) didn't want Trump as a candidate.   Recall the former heads of several intelligence agencies speaking out against him and writing op-eds before the election.  The two primary reasons were his desire for rapproachment with Russia and his open questioning of the purpose and usefulness of NATO.   Also his realpolitik statements on the use of American power ("We've killed children too" ) undermined the benevolent global cop/spreader of democracy narrative that is so instrumental to keeping liberals onboard for the next war.  

And we saw how that played out -- he was sat down by some generals and told he must respond to Syria "using" chemical weapons, and he did.   One could see this as him flip-flopping, or one could see this as Trump finding out who actually makes the foreign policy decisions.

And here we are a year later, discussing in other threads the possibility of NATO going to war with Russia.   

That the military/intelligence community in the US has undermined Trump's presidency on these issues, with unprecedented amounts of leaks and the various continuing investigations and survellience of his campaign team and advisors is not in doubt.   If that's a good thing depends on which team you are on.   But if you are on team "open democracy", then you are losing either way.  

RE: Trump and Russia collusion - I don't think there was collusion that rose to the level of criminality by any impartial standard, but I suppose there could be.   And I imagine the same charges could be brought against any number of other candidates and current politicians, especially Clinton.  

Trump was quite willing to talk about dropping bombs before the election. The idea that he was going to be some sort of "Peace" president was idiotic.

Mobo2000

VOTD:   The Carter analogy is interesting, thanks for the link.   I should clarify -- I don't think the investigation is entirely fabricated, just hyped up.    Turn over enough rocks and I think you'd find the same dirt on most politicians in the US, especially Presidential candidates, I think, and the issue for some Trump supporters is that the investigation is not wide enough, and should include the DNC/Hillary's actions with foreign powers.   Trump has talked about this directly as well.  

I guess for me the best case senario to come out of the investigation would be the DNC and Republicans tear each other apart fighting over it and a whole lot of dirty laundry spills on the floor for everyone to see.

NorthReport

Give it a break

Everyone knows basically what Trump is about and what methods he used to win the Presidency. The FBI are just trying to prove it

NorthReport

Trump, Putin briefly talk during opening photo at Asia-Pacific summit

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/09/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-vietn...

NorthReport

Top Alabama Republican responds to Moore allegations: I'd trust Putin over Washington Post

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/928797112506179584

Mobo2000

Ah, yes, the FBI and CIA, tireless seekers of truth.   But seeing as everyone knows, why wait for the proof?  

NorthReport

Spies Suspect Kremlin Is Pushing Dozens of Fake Trump Sex Tapes

http://observer.com/2017/11/spy-circles-suspect-kremlin-is-behind-dozens...

NorthReport

Trump's entourage have either pleaded guilty or are being charged as we speak, so it's enjoyable seeing the Trump defenders bite the dust, one by one. 

Mobo2000 wrote:

Ah, yes, the FBI and CIA, tireless seekers of truth.   But seeing as everyone knows, why wait for the proof?  

Mobo2000

Yeah, I get that.   Enjoy your enjoyment.   May your cup runneth over.

NorthReport

Fill your boots Mobo

Mueller Probing Possible Deal Between Turks, Flynn During Presidential Transition

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mueller-probing-possible-deal-betwe...

NDPP

NY Times Compares Anyone Who Questions Robert Mueller To Nazis

https://youtu.be/wW3hXxSRPFA

"Subliminal slime..."

 

From Russia With Panic

https://thebaffler.com/salvos/from-russia-with-panic-levine

"Over time, bad evidence was piled on top of unsubtantiated claims and giant inductive leaps of logic to the point that, if you tried to figure out what was actually happening, you'd lose all sense of direction..."

NorthReport
NorthReport
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NDPP

Old McCarthyism In New Bottle

https://www.liberationnews.org/old-mccarthyism-new-bottle/

"The anti-Russia witch-hunt is reactionary and has its roots in the Democratic Party although it is a bipartisan affair involving the Republican Party as well.

The witch hunt will not end unless people stand up to it. Those who hope to keep their heads down and ride it out are doing a disservice not only to themselves but the entire progressive movement. 

The agenda of the promoters of 'Russiagate' has been made clear: heighten an unbelievably dangerous confrontation with Russia abroad, and suppress movements for justice and equality at home."

 

US Brands RT A 'Foreign Agent': A Chilling Move Against Free Speech

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/11/11/pers-n11.html

"The US government's motivations are entirely political, bound up with the effort to present all opposition within the United States as the product of the actions of Russia. In its reporting, whatever its reasons may be, RT provides a platform for voices critical of the policy of the American government. The fact that RT is being targeted because of its political position sets an ominous precedent..."

NorthReport

 

Looks like Trump’s time in the WH is going to go from bad to worse

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/11/how-michael-flynn-got-west-wing-job-244790

NorthReport

Russian excitement for ‘their man’ Donald Trump turns sour in less than one year

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/russia-trum...

NorthReport
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Trump looks to be in more and more hot water now with each passing day

https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/929335275586715648

NorthReport
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These are not the actions of an innocent man

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/545651/

 

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