KremlinGate

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NDPP

Trump Points To Falsehoods In 'Russian Hacking' Claims, Media Still Ignores Them

https://t.co/ckRw313jaL

"Trump is not the brightest bulb and he is not well informed. I dislike nearly all of his policies. But he understands that the 'Russian hacking' narrative is false and is carried by lunatic political hacks who want to push the US back into a cold, or maybe even hot war with Russia, China, Iran and probably everybody else. The roots of Russiagate extend far beyond the politicians..."

JKR

Trump should bring his "evidence" to the investigators investigating this issue. 

voice of the damned

From the Moon article(probably best to click the link and read yourself, for full context)...

Russian interference in Brexit through targeted social media propaganda can be revealed for the first time. A cache of posts from 2016, seen by WIRED, shows how a coordinated network of Russian-based Twitter accounts spread racial hatred in an attempt to disrupt politics in the UK and Europe.

Interesting, enthralling, complicate and sensational ...
                                                    ... until you get down to paragraph 14(!):

Surprisingly, all the posts around Brexit in this small snapshot were posted after the June vote.

"Russian-based Twitter accounts" influenced the Brexit vote in the UK by tweeting affirmative AFTER the vote happened.

END QUOTE

Well, the claim  was that the accounts were trying to "disrupt politics", not "influence the Brexit vote"(which is the Moon's terminology). The former goal would be conducive with post-referendum tweets.  

josh
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Meet Clint Watts...   -  by Max Blumenthal (Part I)

https://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/clint-watts-fake-russia-expert

"A dubious Russia meddling 'expert' lobbying the US government to 'quell information rebellions."

bekayne

NDPP wrote:

Trump Points To Falsehoods In 'Russian Hacking' Claims, Media Still Ignores Them

https://t.co/ckRw313jaL

"Trump is not the brightest bulb and he is not well informed. I dislike nearly all of his policies. But he understands that the 'Russian hacking' narrative is false and is carried by lunatic political hacks who want to push the US back into a cold, or maybe even hot war with Russia, China, Iran and probably everybody else. The roots of Russiagate extend far beyond the politicians..."

Trump said that China was raping the US. And he has been beating the drums for war with Iran during and since the election.

NDPP

Re Chomsky on Russophrenia: 'It's a pretty remarkable fact that - first of all it is a joke. Half the world is cracking up in laughter. It's turning the US again into a laughing stock in the world.'

"Is Noam Chomsky on the payroll of the Kremlin or just a secret supporter of alt-right ideology?"

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/929703988219564032

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voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

Re Chomsky on Russophrenia: 'It's a pretty remarkable fact that - first of all it is a joke. Half the world is cracking up in laughter. It's turning the US again into a laughing stock in the world.'

"Is Noam Chomsky on the payroll of the Kremlin or just a secret supporter of alt-right ideology?"

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/929703988219564032

re: the US interferes in other country's affairs, so why should Americans complain if Russia does it to them?

This is one of those arguments that I call "Don't Speak Ill Of The Dead" arguments, ie. you pretend to care about a general principle, but your real motivation is to defend the people involved in this specific case. To use the example at hand, people rarely say "Don't speak ill of the dead" when they hate the person who died. They usually just say it when they like the person who died, the aim being not to uphold some cherished taboo against trashing the dead, but simply to protect the reputation of someone they admired. Were that person still alive, they would find some other reason to say that he should be immune from criticism.

Back to the case of US/Russia, maybe it's hypocritical for Americans to complain about Russian interference when their government does the same thing. But let's be honest here. Russia Today etc. aren't just dutifully bringing this contradiction to our attention because they have a standing policy of pointing out logical inconsistencies whenever they arise. No. They're doing it because these particular allegations make Russia look bad, and "But the Americans do it too!" is just a convenient weapon at hand for delecting attention.

Here's a foreign-interference scandal from the 1970s...

http://tinyurl.com/y7k5bcvh

TL/DR...

Agents of the South Korean right-wing military dictatorship were caught trying to bribe US congressmen. A few of the congressmen were put on trial, and at least one was jailed.

Now, yes, there was probably some hypocrisy there, because the US had also been doing the same thing to other countries that the ROK was doing to them, and likely on a much larger scale. But do you think any leftists at the time were banging their fists on the table and yelling "This is so unfair to General Park!!"

 

NorthReport

This may well be the crux of the matter, eh!

https://twitter.com/20committee/status/929854639528345600

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'Nobody Thinks Russia Had Impact On Election' - US Treasury Secretary Mnuchin

https://on.rt.com/8s43

"Let me be clear, nobody thinks this had any impact on the election. So whatever occurred, there was no impact,' he said. So I think the American public is ready to move on to more important issues..."

josh

Wow.  Quoting Trump’s Treasury secretary on whether Russian “interference” affected the election.  I’m convinced.  But at least you finally concede that there was Russian election “interference.”

josh
voice of the damned

I think there is quite a bit of circumstantial evidence(to use Cole's term) that Trump has some sort of odd(for an American pol) affinity for Russia: publically asking Russia to find Hillary's e-mails; being interviewed on Russia Today; appointing a National Security Adviser(?) who had attended a Russia Today dinner with Putin; appointing a Sec. Of State who had gotten Moscow's Order Of Friendship(nothing wrong with that, Chretien and the Archbishhop Of Canterbury got it too, but when looked at in light of everything else, well...); his uncharacteristically obsequious attitude toward Putin etc.

But I'm not entirely sold on this blackmail angle.  The weird thing is, previously we were told that the reason he was kissing up to Russia was because he was in hock to Russian mobsters and financiers(and that's why he wouldn't release his tax returns). But then we were told it was because the Russians had gotten information about him jerking off to golden showers in a Moscow hotel room.

Well, okay, I suppose both those things could be true, but it's kind of odd that these are two entirely separate narrative streams(no pun intended) that both end up in the same place, ie. Trump being compromised by Russia. Like, he was already being compromised over his finances, and then he just decided to go to Moscow and hand the Russians even more of an opporunity to blackmail him?

Possible, I suppose, that he coincidentally just happened to get himself into two blackmailable situations with the same country. But, when you think about it, it kinda starts to sound like a guy who calls his office and says he can't come to work because he has a really bad flu. And also that his mother died and he has to go the funeral.

 

 

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The Secret Correspondence Between Donald Trump Jr. and WikiLeaks

The transparency organization asked the president’s son for his cooperation—in sharing its work, in contesting the results of the election, and in arranging for Julian Assange to be Australia’s ambassador to the United States.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-secret-correspo...

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/11/13/trump-jr-wikileaks-twitter...

NDPP

RT America Torched In Witch Hunt '17   -   by Chris Hedges

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/rt-america-torched-witch-hunt-17/

"...One of the most horrendous blows to press freedom since the 1950s"

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There appears to be one bombshell announcement after another almost every day now concerning the Russian involvement in connection with the Trump/GOP campaign organization in the last US election. 

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Can Russia 'Help' as Much as Trump Says It Can?

What the U.S. president may have in mind when he tweets about teaming up with Putin “to solve North Korea, Syria, Ukraine, terrorism”

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/trump-russia-k...

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52 U.S. Code § 30121 - Contributions and donations by foreign nationals

prev | next

(a)ProhibitionIt shall be unlawful for—

(1)foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121

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7 Steps to Stop Putin’s Special War on the West

http://observer.com/2017/11/prague-declaration-seven-steps-to-stop-vladi...

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The definitive Trump-Russia timeline of events

Follow our timeline of events on the Trump administration's ties to Russia.

https://www.politico.com/trump-russia-ties-scandal-guide/timeline-of-events

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voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

RT America Torched In Witch Hunt '17   -   by Chris Hedges

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/rt-america-torched-witch-hunt-17/

"...One of the most horrendous blows to press freedom since the 1950s"

Hedges, as usual, starts off with some valid premises, but then goes off the rails with a tirade against everything that is wrong with America today. Not that a lot of his criticism isn't valid, but it's not entirely clear how police-brutality relates to the supposed suppression of Russia Today. Does Hedges really think that the only reason RT is being put on the foreign-agents list is because they expose police brutality? I'm pretty sure the Manchester Guaridan writes about police brutality as well. Are they on the list?

The ruling elites are desperately trying to shift the focus away from the cause of the political insurgencies on the left and the right: extreme social inequality.

Like they say, if you live long enough, you'll see everything. Now, left-wing commentators promote the idea that the "insurgencies on the right" are all about fighting extreme social inequality, and are a major threat to the "tuling elites". I remember when progressives identified right-wing ideologies with the ruling elites themselves. Has the fact that our Russian comrades seem to support these ideologies suddenly made such movements more acceptable to the left?

 

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NDPP

Act of War: Politicians Sell Russia Election Interference With NO Evidence

https://youtu.be/3n82DjnniYw

"Montage video of politicians shilling Russian Election interference, a claim that there has been NO objective/tangible evidence to verify. Beware ALL of those who shill propaganda to get us into either a cold or hot conflict with Russia."

bekayne

NDPP wrote:

Act of War: Politicians Sell Russia Election Interference With NO Evidence

That video was done on April 12. 7 months ago.

voice of the damned

Today's a bad day for my reading skills. Re: my post above, Russia Today's coverage of police-brutality was mentioned in a US government report on RT, which is presumably why Hedges mentioned the issue(to say that RT's description was accurate).

Still not quite buying the idea that the only reason they're being put on the foreign-agents list is because they dare expose the sordid underbelly of American life, since BBC America(for example) also publishes unflattering stuff about the US, and is not being put on the list.

If you look at the names of other entities on the list, the common themes seem to be not criticism of America, but a) foreign-government ownership, and b) an agenda confined to advancing the interests of the foreign-country. That probably explains why the Japanese Board Of Tourism(or whatever it's called) is on the list, even though they're probably not a bunch of fire-breathing leftists.

Granted, I'm sure there are lots of politicos(especially Democrats) in the US who want RT on the list for less exalted reasons, and have probably given the move a bit of a push.  

josh

bekayne wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Act of War: Politicians Sell Russia Election Interference With NO Evidence

That video was done on April 12. 7 months ago.

Not to worry.  I'm sure there's still no evidence.   And there always will be.

bekayne

josh wrote:

bekayne wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Act of War: Politicians Sell Russia Election Interference With NO Evidence

That video was done on April 12. 7 months ago.

Not to worry.  I'm sure there's still no evidence.   And there always will be.

Even when there's evidence, there's no evidence.

JKR

bekayne wrote:

josh wrote:

bekayne wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Act of War: Politicians Sell Russia Election Interference With NO Evidence

That video was done on April 12. 7 months ago.

Not to worry.  I'm sure there's still no evidence.   And there always will be.

Even when there's evidence, there's no evidence.

Speaking of a lack of evidence, remember when Trump and his supporters claimed that Obama was born outside of America?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Speaking of a lack of evidence, remember when Trump and his supporters claimed that Obama was born outside of America?

LOLZ YES!  I expect some of his supporters still do, though Trump himself appears to have walked it back some.

Presumably he saw a video of Obama's birth, with the Statue of Liberty clearly visible in the background.

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NDPP

Mocking Trump Doesn't Prove Russia's Guilt    -     by Ray McGovern

http://original.antiwar.com/mcgovern/2017/11/13/mocking-trump-doesnt-pro...

"...So when it comes to whether or not Russia 'hacked' Democratic emails last year and slipped them to WikiLeaks, just because a bunch of people with fancy titles think the Russians are guilty doesn't compensate for the lack of evidence so far evinced to support this core charge..."

JKR

NDPP wrote:

Mocking Trump Doesn't Prove Russia's Guilt    -     by Ray McGovern

http://original.antiwar.com/mcgovern/2017/11/13/mocking-trump-doesnt-pro...

"...So when it comes to whether or not Russia 'hacked' Democratic emails last year and slipped them to WikiLeaks, just because a bunch of people with fancy titles think the Russians are guilty doesn't compensate for the lack of evidence so far evinced to support this core charge..."

I don't think Russia can be "guilty" of using propaganda against other countries because there is no international law that prohibits it. The U.S. has often interfered in other countries elections and not faced prosecution so why should it come as a shock if another country would interfere in their elections too? I think someone like Putin would naturally think that what's good for the goose is good for the gander and take advantage of an opening to hurt Russia's superpower rival. On the other hand, Trump cooperating with Russia is another legal kettle of fish. In any case I think people should wait for the investigations in the US to conclude before presuming innocence or guilt. It seems like Trump's supporters are desperately trying to discredit the US investigations of Trump before they can find incriminating evidence against Trump and the Republicans.

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voice of the damned

I think someone like Putin would naturally think that what's good for the goose is good for the gander and take advantage of an opening to hurt Russia's superpower rival. On the other hand, Trump cooperating with Russia is another legal kettle of fish.

Yes, the basic rule of international espionage(cue James Bond theme) is that you try to recruit the citizens of rival countries to turn against their homeland, while trying to stop your own citizens from turning against you. Maybe that's hypocritical, but if so, it's a hypocrisy accepted by any country that engages in espionage. (Which is a whole helluva lot, including Canada if Snowden's documents are to be believed.)

Any American who is saying "Oh my God, how DARE that horrible man Putin do this to us!" is a naive idiot. But it's not otherwise unreasonable for someone to think "Well, we don't want a head-of-government who is secretly on the direct payroll of another country."

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