Libya XI
March 31, 2011 - 5:06pm
Continued from...
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Turkey-Libya: Defusing Another UN Timebomb - by Eric Walberg
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Turkey-Libya-Defusing-ano-by-Eric-Walbe...
"In an interview with the Guardian Sunday, Erdogan fought back against his nemesis French President Nicolas Sarkozy, saying Turkey was ready to act as a mediator to broker an early ceasefire in Libya within the framework of NATO, the Arab League and African Union. He warned that a drawn out conflict risked turning the country into a 'second Iraq' or 'another Afghanistan' with devastating consequences both for NATO and the NATO states leading the intervention.
He was clearly referring to both 9/11 and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Iraq was 'still paying a price' 20 years after the Gulf War of 1991. 'When western forces entered Afghanistan nearly 10 years ago, people were talking of it being over in days, and people said the same in Iraq. But a million have died and a civilisation has as good as collapsed. We don't want to see a similar picture in Libya. There is a civil war in Libya and we have to bring that to an end.'
Turkey is the only NATO member that still has both an embassy in the Libyan capital Tripoli and a consul functioning in Benghazi. Erdogan is in personal contact with Gaddafi, and has now called on him to step down and allow for meaningful negotiations with the Benghazi-based opposition Transitional National Council. Turkey is about to take over the running of the Benghazi harbor and airport to facilitate humanitarian aid, in agreement with NATO, pre-empting any Franco-Anglo-American plan to use it as a base to launch a ground force invasion.
'Turkey's role will be to withdraw from Libya as soon as possible' and 'restore the unity and integrity of the country, based on the democratic demands of the people.'.."
US, Saudis Make Deal To Make Carnage
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/172473.html
"An agreement between Saudi Arabia and the US has reportedly facilitated the carnage of civlians in Libya and Bahrain, where people have launched revolutions against their respective governments. Based on the deal, cited by British newspaper, The Telegraph on Thursday, Riyadh would support the Washington led war on fellow Arab country of Libya, in exchange for the American silence on the brutal crackdown on anti-government protesters in the Persian Gulf state of Bahrain. 'The US will lose its Fifth Fleet in Bahrain in a matter of weeks because they have sided with the al-Khalifa Monarchy, Ali-Ahmed, the director of the Institute for Gulf Affairs, an independent thinktank in Washington DC told Press TV earlier this week..."
Neoliberal Interventionism: America's Libyans - by Vijay Prashad
http://www.counterpunch.org/prashad03312011.html
"People like Mahmoud Jibril and Khalifa Heftir will be more accountable to their patrons in Paris and Washington that to the people of Libya, whose blood is being spilled on both sides for an outcome that is unlikely to benefit them.."
The Enemies of Our Enemy
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/03/30/the_enemies_of_our_enem...
"Libya contributed hundreds of the fiercest foreign fighters to Iraq's al Qaeda led insurgency. Should Washington be worried that its now backing these guys against Qaddafi?"
Turkey-Libya: Defusing Another UN Timebomb - by Eric Walberg
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Turkey-Libya-Defusing-ano-by-Eric-Walbe...
"In an interview with the Guardian Sunday, Erdogan fought back against his nemesis French President Nicolas Sarkozy, saying Turkey was ready to act as a mediator to broker an early ceasefire in Libya within the framework of NATO, the Arab League and African Union. He warned that a drawn out conflict risked turning the country into a 'second Iraq' or 'another Afghanistan' with devastating consequences both for NATO and the NATO states leading the intervention.
He was clearly referring to both 9/11 and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Iraq was 'still paying a price' 20 years after the Gulf War of 1991. 'When western forces entered Afghanistan nearly 10 years ago, people were talking of it being over in days, and people said the same in Iraq. But a million have died and a civilisation has as good as collapsed. We don't want to see a similar picture in Libya. There is a civil war in Libya and we have to bring that to an end.'
Turkey is the only NATO member that still has both an embassy in the Libyan capital Tripoli and a consul functioning in Benghazi. Erdogan is in personal contact with Gaddafi, and has now called on him to step down and allow for meaningful negotiations with the Benghazi-based opposition Transitional National Council. Turkey is about to take over the running of the Benghazi harbor and airport to facilitate humanitarian aid, in agreement with NATO, pre-empting any Franco-Anglo-American plan to use it as a base to launch a ground force invasion.
'Turkey's role will be to withdraw from Libya as soon as possible' and 'restore the unity and integrity of the country, based on the democratic demands of the people.'.."
Clearly Turkey's record of human rights abuses and atrocities against Kurds has been forgotten. Shame.
Libyan Toddler Dies, Family Says from Airstrike
http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1105ap_af_libya_civilian_death.html
KHORUM, Libya "The grieving mother sat on the ground rocking her 2 month old daughter under a blanket on her lap, crying softly and accepting the soft words of condolences from her neighbors. Nizha Abdel Salam and her family say her 18 - month old son Sirajuddin al-Sweisi was killed when debris pierced the wall of their house as NATO airstrikes hit an ammunition dump near her village of Khorum early Tuesday morning.
In an interview with the Associated Press, Abdel-Salam 27, said the blast hit their house at around 6 am Tuesday. She said she rushed to the living room where her son had been sleeping on a mattress on the floor with his father, and she saw that a hot piece of metal had embedded into the side of her child's face. She rushed to pick up her crying son.
'His blood was streaming down my arm,' she said Wednesday, choking back tears 'He was crying out, 'Mama, Mama,' reaching out his hand to me.'
The boy's uncle showed reporters a picture on his mobile phone of the baby on his deathbed. Sirajuddin's left cheek has a deep, dark-brown burn mark, his body swathed in a white shroud. 'We took him to the hospital where they treated him for the burns and some broken bones,' said Abdel - Hakin al-Sweiss, 'But by nightfall he was dead.'
US and European military officials said they have seen no credible evidence of civilian casualties from the air campaign and they say that precision weapons are used..."
This could be your 'death from above' NATO tax dollars at work Canada...and your unanimous, pro-war, no questions asked, parliament.
Gaddafi Envoy in Britain for Secret Talks - by Peter Beaumont
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/31/gaddaf-envoy-britain-secret-...
"Contact with senior aide believed to be one of a number between Libyan officials and West, amid signs regime may be looking for an exit strategy. Libyan fixer's visit to London may show sons want way out: those who have defected and those who still support Gaddafi.."
GRTV: Large Explosion Filmed in Libya
http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2011/03/breaking-news-large-explosion-filmed...
god only knows the kinds of things they could be 'battlefield testing' in Libya...
The War In Libya: It's Really About Broccoli
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2011/03/war-in-libya-its-really-ab...
Vatican official reports 40 civilian dead from NATO bombing in Tripoli.
"NATO said it would investigate the report, but insisted there had been no civilian casualties in Tripoli."
Sure they'll investigate. What were those coordinates for the witness again?
Gaddafi forces storm Misrata, rebels offer truce
Gadaffi troops assault Misrata, seen some video of the fighting today... the rebels seem to be holding on for now. Fighting in the city is a big advantage for them.
Muammar Gaddafi's forces stormed the western rebel outpost of Misrata with tanks and artillery on Friday, a rebel spokesman said, while insurgents marshaled defenses in their eastern heartland.
Rebels speaking from Misrata said Gaddafi's forces had brought their superior firepower to bear on the insurgents' last western enclave with an intense bombardment.
"They used tanks, rocket-propelled grenades, mortar rounds and other projectiles to hit the city today. It was random and very intense bombardment," the spokesman, called Sami, told Reuters by telephone. "We no longer recognize the place. The destruction cannot be described."
"The pro-Gaddafi soldiers who made it inside the city through Tripoli Street are pillaging the place, the shops, even homes, and destroying everything in the process."
The account from Misrata, Libya's third biggest city 200 km (130 miles) east of Tripoli, could not be verified. Authorities do not allow journalists to report freely from the city.
A doctor in Misrata told Reuters in an email the 32nd Brigade, one of the best-equipped and trained units, had been sent to seize control of the city. "So the question is where is the international community?" it said.
Mean while fighting continues near the oil town of Brega as the rebels start to show signs of reorganization.
Libyan rebels moved heavier weaponry toward government forces at the eastern oil town of Brega on Friday and sought to marshal rag-tag units into a more disciplined force to fend off Gaddafi's regular army and turn the tide of recent events.
Rebels said neither side could claim control of Brega, one of a string of oil towns along the Mediterranean coast that have been taken and retaken by each side in recent weeks.
But there were signs on Friday of a more ordered approach.
Rebels said more trained officers were at the front, heavier rockets were seen moving from the rebel stronghold of Benghazi toward Ajdabiyah to the south late on Thursday and checkpoints were screening those going through.
"Only those who have large weapons are being allowed through. Civilians without weapons are prohibited," said Ahmed Zaitoun, one of the rebel fighters and part of a brigade of civilian volunteers who have received more training than most.
"Today we have officers coming with us. Before we went alone," he said, and he pointed to a man complaining at being stopped at one of the checkpoints, adding: "He is a young boy and he doesn't have a gun. What will he do up there?"
The new approach has yet to be tested after the rout rebels sustained this week when a two-day rebel advance forward along about 200 km (125 miles) of coast west from Brega was repulsed and turned into a rapid retreat over the following two days.
Some reporters who are with the rebels say they are now seeing more satellite phones and better communication equipment amongst the rebels now (gee, that was fast) and army officers are taking charge of 5 to 7 gun trucks and organizing them into platoons. This could signal the movement of those better trained units that were in the Benghazi area I talked about up to the front.
Everyone have a great weekend.
Rarely does Canadian Dimension get anything correct but this article from Petras and Abaya is just so dead-on.
http://canadiandimension.com/articles/3845/
well it look like the further this goes on the more we realize the intentions of the Capitalists.
Actually what is most disturbing is how some many people on the left threw history and facts out the window and wanted the imperialist powers to take over.
Rarely does Canadian Dimension get anything correct but this article from Petras and Abaya is just so dead-on.
http://canadiandimension.com/articles/3845/
I agree, (posted in X @ #95)
One would have thought after Yugoslavia, Iraq and Afghanistan, opposition to another 'humanitarian intervention' by Western imperial powers would have been automatic. However, even appreciation of this latest imperialist powerplay, without resistance in response, is still collaboration and complicity. Once again, the lack of a coherent or effective anti-war movement in Canada is an appalling deficiency that continues to faciliate and enable such wars. That politicians can run an election here without such things even being mentioned, is a pretty good indication that the canary in the coalmine has stopped singing and is motionless on the bottom of its cage. As should be obvious to all here - we have been disarmed:
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/SciTech/20040530/ndp_nato_040529/
You didn't need to be an expert on Libya to know which way the wind was blowing - by Max Ajl
http://www.maxajl.com/?p=5109
"Revolution is a delicate flower: we don't know how to make it bloom, but we do know from history quite well how to kill it: foreign intervention. Skip the Arab summer. The people running the show in Brussels, Riyadh, Qatar and Washington want to usher us in to a frozen Arab winter. Western intervention in Libya is the catalyst for this transformation "
@ndpp
Ya it;s kind sickening to think about how callous people have become over war.
It's like when you watch those Sunday morning talk shows.. It goes something like this
"Ya and then I was with my kid watching the pregame show and then we switched it to CNN and watched a little of the bombing runs our heroes in Libya have been doing and then I went to make a sandwich and came because and turned on the cartoons for little Jake. Oh and then that ass whole Liberal leader was on.....bla bla bla...."
Mean while fighting continues near the oil town of Brega as the rebels start to show signs of reorganization.
Libyan rebels moved heavier weaponry toward government forces at the eastern oil town of Brega on Friday and sought to marshal rag-tag units into a more disciplined force to fend off Gaddafi's regular army and turn the tide of recent events.
Rebels said neither side could claim control of Brega, one of a string of oil towns along the Mediterranean coast that have been taken and retaken by each side in recent weeks.
But there were signs on Friday of a more ordered approach.
Rebels said more trained officers were at the front, heavier rockets were seen moving from the rebel stronghold of Benghazi toward Ajdabiyah to the south late on Thursday and checkpoints were screening those going through.
"Only those who have large weapons are being allowed through. Civilians without weapons are prohibited," said Ahmed Zaitoun, one of the rebel fighters and part of a brigade of civilian volunteers who have received more training than most.
"Today we have officers coming with us. Before we went alone," he said, and he pointed to a man complaining at being stopped at one of the checkpoints, adding: "He is a young boy and he doesn't have a gun. What will he do up there?"
The new approach has yet to be tested after the rout rebels sustained this week when a two-day rebel advance forward along about 200 km (125 miles) of coast west from Brega was repulsed and turned into a rapid retreat over the following two days.
Some reporters who are with the rebels say they are now seeing more satellite phones and better communication equipment amongst the rebels now (gee, that was fast) and army officers are taking charge of 5 to 7 gun trucks and organizing them into platoons. This could signal the movement of those better trained units that were in the Benghazi area I talked about up to the front.
Very good! That's what I like to hear!
As war is evil, there is a terrible dichotmy:
The longer it continues, the more everyone suffers.
However, time is on the side of the Libertarias rather than Gadhafi's forces.
The longer the Revolution continues, the more the Libertarias will learn and the better and more disciplined fighters they will become. Thus their chances of success will increase.
Viva La Revolucion Libertaria!!!!!
I agree, (posted in X @ #95)
One would have thought after Yugoslavia, Iraq and Afghanistan, opposition to another 'humanitarian intervention' by Western imperial powers would have been automatic. However, even appreciation of this latest imperialist powerplay, without resistance in response, is still collaboration and complicity. Once again, the lack of a coherent or effective anti-war movement in Canada is an appalling deficiency that continues to faciliate and enable such wars. That politicians can run an election here without such things even being mentioned, is a pretty good indication that the canary in the coalmine has stopped singing and is motionless on the bottom of its cage. As should be obvious to all here - we have been disarmed:
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/SciTech/20040530/ndp_nato_040529/
Canada has taken command of the war on Libya.
Things are looking steadily worse for the Libertarias now.
Herr (War Party leader Adolf Hitler) Harper loves (the Iraq, Afghan, Libyan) war.
Count Igula (other War Party leader bloodsucking vulture who thrives on the blood of dead Canadian soldiers) Ignatieff loves (the Iraq, Afghan, Libyan) war.
Thus, as the fortunes of war turn against the People, Libertarias and Revolutionaries of Libya, the NDP, the Bloc and the Green Party would do well, very well indeed to use this war on Libya fiasco as a stake (a hammer and sickle will do just fine also) and drive it throught the heart of these bloodsucking vampires/vultures.
THEY supported the WAR.
The WAR is going BADLY (for the people, the Libertarias, the Revolutionaries.)
Let THEM Wear It!
most of those went with the bloodsucking vampires on this one I'm afraid...
Obama 'signed order for CIA to arm
ContrasRebels 'n Qaeda'Britain Seeking A Deal With Kusa
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/172743.html
"...Despite claims by the British government that Libyan defector Musa Kusa will not be immune from court trials, reports say he will be rewarded for escaping to Britain. The Daily Mirror said in a report that London is considering giving Kusa a lucrative multi-million pound deal along with a safe haven in Britain or the US without holding him to account for the crimes he is said to have committed..."
UN's Coalition of the Opposed Grows
http://en.m4.cn/archives/7014.html
"Parallel to the growing criticisms of the Barack Obama administration's military gambit in Libya in the US Conress, which saw the House of Representatives speaker John Boehner demand an explanation from President Barack Obama on the 'contradictions' of his Libya policy, there is also a rising chorus of discontent in the UN community. This reflects sharp divisions over UN Security Council resolution 1973 last Saturday, which established a no-fly zone in Libya and was weakened from the outset by abstentions from several key countries - Russia, China, Germany, Brazil and India..
The Agents of Washington and Britain Within Libya's Opposition - by Julie Hyband
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/apr2011/oppo-a02.shtml
"The Interim Transitional National Council (TNC) was not officially able to participate in the conference held on Libya at London's Lancaster House on Tuesday, due to differences within the war coalition over support for the anti-Gaddafi leadership. However, Washington and London made clear their backing for what is being groomed as Libya's government in waiting - once, that is, the military onslaught against the country has achieved its desired objective: regime change..."
Leftists, Activists And All That Bloody Jazz - by Layla Anwar
http://arabwomanblues.blogspot.com/2011/04/leftists-activists-and-all-th...
"Within the space of a less than a month, Libya has turned from a functioning society to a country in chaos, subjected to bombs by the West, again!
Gaddafi did say (and I don't want to hear that same bullshit question that was asked when Iraq was invaded and totally annihilated in 2003, 'So you love Hussein right?'). Love has nothing to do with it o luminaries of politics, BUT SOVEREIGNTY DOES! So Gaddafi did say that the rebels - so called revolutionaries had ties to Al Qaeda. He was not lying. It turned out to be true..."
Congressman Dennis Kucinich: Address To Congress On The War in Libya Part 1 (and vid)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf8xPy6-C18&feature=channel_video_title
On Obama's 'illegal' war in Libya
Libya Rebels 'Receive Foreign Training'
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201142172443133798.html
"US and Egyptian Special Forces have reportedly been offering covert armed training to rebel fighters in the battle for Libya, Al Jazeera has been told. An unnamed rebel source revealed how he had undergone training in military techniques at a 'secret facility' in eastern Libya. 'He told us that on Thursday night a new shipment of Katyusha rockets had been sent into eastern Libya from Egypt. He said these were state-of-the-art heat seeking rockets.
The intriguing development raises several uncomfortable questions about Egypt's private involvement and what the arms embargo exactly means' said our correspondent..."
No Fly Zone: Clouding Words of War - by Tarak Berkawi
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/03/201132881618969257....
"...In essence, and without ever saying so, the message to Gaddafi is that he must stop defending himself from those who would overthrow him. Most perniciously is the way liberal war frames understanding of conflicts.."
Only 9 Out Of 22 Members Of Arab League Voted For No-Fly Zone
http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2011/04/only-9-out-of-22-members-of-arab-l...
"A full Arab League endorsement of a no-fly zone is a myth. Of the 22 full members, only 11 were present at the voting. The vote was essentially a House of Saud led operation..."
Impeach Obama Over Libya Prof. Francis Boyle Tells Jack Blood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfvMlyCnjDs
"Obama went to war with Libya with no consultation with Congress at all. With no authorization from Congress, Obama is guilty of an impeachable offense. I think we can impeach him with his own words and his own conduct..."
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201142172443133798.html
"US and Egyptian Special Forces have reportedly been offering covert armed training to rebel fighters in the battle for Libya, Al Jazeera has been told..."
We could have guessed as much. US Army Sargent Ali Mohamed, for example, was also a CIA spook and anticommunist "freedom fighter" from the 1980s trained by US special forces in the art of terrorism. He was also a high ranking officer in the Egyptian army before coming to America to train al-CIA'da hijackers. In the al-CIA'da training camps he was known as Abu Amriki Mohamed, or "Father Mohamed the American"
Washington May Arm Al Qaeda Linked Libya Rebels
http://rt.com/news/al-qaeda-libya-american-arms/
Terrorism Originates From the Western Colonial Powers - by Dr Mahboob A Khawaja
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24104
"Terrorism originates from the Western colonial powers but none would dare to concede it..."
Exposed: The US-Saudi Libya Deal - by Pepe Escobar
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MD02Ak01.html
"You invade Bahrain. We take out Muammar Gaddafi in Libya. This, in short, is the essence of a deal struck between the Barack Obama administration and the House of Saud.."
From rt.com:
The so-called "Allied" forces (i.e., the NATO aggressors) have "accidently" killed a number of the "rebel" forces.
NATO is investigating the reports that the coalition air force killed rebels. According to witnesses, this happened after one of Gaddafi's soldiers mixed with the rebel group and fired at the coalition fighter jets the moment they were flying by. The planes bombed the group in response, killing some of them and destroying four of their vehicles.
Gadaffi rejects rebel calls for ceasefire ... (RT)
Yes, the NATO investigation will be about as useful as their PREVIOUS investigation ... of reports of civilian deaths by NATO bombing. Yes, they'll get RIGHT on it.
Now if they just had some NATO "advisors" all would be well ...
The belligerents have made a mockery of the UN Charter ...
Yes, a mockery.
STOP NATO: Libyan War in Third Week As NATO Takes Command - by Rick Rozoff
http://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2011/04/03/libyan-war-in-third-week-as-n...
"Pressure will be applied on the public to support a prospective invasion of Libya employing the same rationale used for the ongoing air war: The need for an alleged humanitarian internvention. NATO's first African war, following its first European and Asian wars in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan respectively, will be neither short nor limited in scale and intensity..."
Rebellious Eastern Libya 'Epicenter of Islamist Extremism' Canadian Document Reveals - by Daya Gamage
http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2011/04/02/rebellious-eastern-libya-epi...
"A Canadian intelligence report written in late 2009 called the anti-Gaddafi stronghold of eastern Libya an 'epicenter of Islamist extremism' and said 'extremist cells' operated in the region now being defended by a Canadian-led NATO coalition. The report by the government's Integrated Threat Assessment Centre said 'several Islamist insurgent groups' based in eastern Libya and mosques in Benghazi were urging followers to fight in Iraq.
Canada's National Post that obtained this classified document says it noted 'Within the region, the population holds more conservative views compared to the rest of Libya and Islamist activism is strongly concentrated.' In recent days the profile of the Libyan rebels is fast unfolding about their connections to radical Islamist movements that fight the US-led coalition in Iraq and Afghanistan."
I just wanted to thank the work of posters on this thread and especially for the plurality of opinions that are expressed on this thread. It has been very informative and helpful in understanding a very complex situation (which I am still far from figuring out).
I hope the fog of war hasn't got you confused about whether there is such thing as a "humanitarian bombing" of maternity wards, residential neighborhoods, and so on, and that you are clear about the meaning of violations of Article 51 of the UN Charter by the NATO countries ... regardless of the fig leaf of respectibility that the SC has given their actions.
It's despicable to me that anyone can describe aerial bombardment of civilians as some kind of moral high ground .. but that just goes to show how effective propaganda can be.
All Smoke and Mirrors: UNSC Meeting March 17, To Authorize Bombing Of Libya - by Rhonda Hauben
http://en.m4.cn/archives/7025.html
"The false narrative they conjured up was that their military action was for the protection of unarmed civilians who were peacefully protesting their rights. What is happening in Libya, however, is an armed insurrection against the government. The insurrection is being led by former Libyan government officials who defected and joined with other opposition forces.
The Security Council resolution was crafted to provide foreign military intervention to aid this armed insurrection by attacking the military forces of the Libyan government along with other sites and installations.."
'Our Man in Tripoli': Islamic Terrorists Join Libya's Pro-Democracy Opposition - by Prof. Michel Chossudovsky
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24096
"Concepts are turned upside down.: The US -NATO military alliance is supporting a rebellion integrated by Islamic terrorists, in the name of the 'War on Terrorism'..."
What is Behind the Libyan Defections - by Gregory Elich
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24115
"More defections can be expected. British agents are currently in touch with 10 'leading Libyan officials.' And it can be assumed that CIA agents are active as well. What inducements are offered can only be surmised: immunity from prosecution? Or a promise of a light sentence rather than hard terms? Once again, the system of international war crimes justice is seen to serve a political purpose. Indictments against Libyan officials are already promised.
There is not a single government on earth that would fail to respond with force to an armed uprising, and it is ludicrous to demand that Libya be the exception. What is taking place in Libya is a civil war, where the West has intervened in that state's internal affairs on behalf of one of the parties in the conflict. Only those on one side of the civil war are to be charged with crimes.
More importantly, NATO and its members' states, as they rain down bombs and cruise missiles on Libya, are immune from prosecution."
D'Escoto: 'The United Nations Is A Deadly US Weapon'
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2011/pl310311.html
"Former Nicaraguan Foreign minister Miguel D'Escoto, now appointed as the representative of Libya to the UN, said Thursday that the United Nations has become a 'lethal weapon of the Empire (United States)'. 'We have to get it back, because if it dies it will not be born again,' warned D'Escoto, who was president of the 63rd period of sessions of the UN General Assembly (2008-2009). In an interview with Prensa Latina in New York, D'Escoto, a Catholic priest, said the UN is dysfunctional, unable to fulfill the goals for which it was created.
D'Escoto harshly criticized UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon, accusing him of betraying the UN Charter. He did not rule out coordination between the UN secretary general and the host country (the United States) to prevent former Libyan Foreign Minister Ali Treki from entering US territory..."
Mounting Evidence Of CIA Ties to Libyan Rebels
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/apr2011/liby-a04.shtml
"Numerous press reports over the weekend add to the evidence that the Libyan rebels fighting the regime of Muammar Gaddafi are under the direction of American intelligence agencies. The dubious character of the Libyan rebels was further underscored in a remarkable profile published Saturday in The Wall Street Journal of three Libyans who had fought with Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan and were now playing major roles in the rebel military effort.
For a decade, the US government under Bush and now Obama, has used the terrorist actions of Al-Qaeda and its alleged supporters as a pretext for one military intervention after another in the Muslim world - Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, the Philipines, Indonesia and now Libya..."
Libyan rebels retake much of key oil town
No real movement of the lines over the weekend; the fighting is still mostly around the Brerga area.
Libyan rebels on Monday took back much of a strategic oil town that has repeatedly changed hands in weeks of battles with Moammar Gadhafi's forces along the nation's northern coast.
There were bursts of artillery and shelling from Gadhafi's forces in the west as rebels pushed into eastern sections of the town. Women and children were seen fleeing Brega as the battle raged.
"New Brega is under control of our forces and we are mopping up around the university," said Lt. Muftah Omar Hamza, a former member of Libya's air force who had a satellite phone and a GPS around his neck.
Brega stretches out over several miles of the coast and is concentrated in three main sections: New Brega, a largely residential area on the east end; West Brega, which includes a refinery and housing for oil workers; and a university between them. West Brega was still contested.
Misrata still holding out...
On Sunday, Gadhafi's forces pressed on with attacks against Misrata, the last key city in the western half of the country still largely under rebel control despite a weeks long assault.
Government troops besieged civilian areas for around two hours Sunday morning with Grad rockets and mortar shells and lined a main street with snipers, said a doctor in the city.
Two shells landed on a field hospital, killing one person and injuring 11, he said. The attacks, including tank fire, began again after nightfall, he said. He did not want to be identified by name out of fear for his security.
Also over the weekend...
Airstrike hits rebel forces: 13 killed
Hospital ship brings glimpse of Libya's bloody frontExclusive: Al Qaeda Acquiring Weapons In Libya: Algerian Official - by Lamine Chikhi
http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE7330LB20110404?sp=true
"Al Qaeda is exploiting the conflict in Libya to acquire weapons including surface-to-air missiles, and smuggle them to a stronghold in northern Mali, a security official from neighbouring Algeria told Reuters. The official said a convoy of 8 Toyota pick-up trucks left eastern Libya, crossed into Chad and then Niger, and from there into northern Mali where in the past few days it delivered a cargo of weapons.
The security official said the Western coalition which has intervened in Libya had to confront the possibility that if Gaddafi's regime falls, al Qaeda could exploit the resulting chaos to extend its influence to the Mediterranean coast. 'If the Gaddafi regime goes, it is the whole of Libya -- in terms of a country which has watertight borders and security and customs services which used to control these borders -- which will disappear, at least for a good time, long enough for AQIM to re-deploy as far as the Libyan Mediterranean.'
'In the case of Libya, the coalition forces must make an urgent choice: To allow chaos to settle in, which will necessitate a ground intervention with the aim of limiting the unavoidable advance of AQIM towards the southern coast of the Mediterranean, or to preserve the Libyan regime, with or without Gaddafi, to restore the pre-uprising security situation,' the official told Reuters."
Obama's Terror War on Libya - by Stephen Lendman
http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2011/04/obamas-terror-war-on-libya.html
"Wars are solely for wealth and power, never humanitarian intervention to liberate oppressed people or promote democracy. Why Gaddafi and why now? James Petras explained it's 'because he refused to actively contribute to Western military operations in Africa and the Middle East.."
Fukushima Hotspots In the Libyan Deserty - by Steve Beckow
http://stevebeckow.com/2011/04/fukushima-hotspots-libyan-desert/
"I apologize to my readers for my felt need to communicate the humanitarian disaster being staged in the Libyan Desert by NATO troops using depleted - uranium weaponry. Having heard that DU weapons are being used by NATO to take out Moummar Gaddafi's tanks, I cannot and will not remain silent. I am reminded of why Afghanis have come to hate their American 'rescuers' with a loathing not reserved for Russian invaders. When their babies were born deformed, the Afghan population woke up to the damage caused...The future of the nation of Libya will be the same as that of Bosnia, Afghanistan and Iraq as a result of DU usage.."
Springtime For NATO in Libya - Lenin's Tomb
http://leninology.blogspot.com/2011/04/springtime-for-nato-in-libya.html
"Can I risk a modest proposition? NATO, the CIA and the Special Forces belonging to the world's imperialist states are not forces of progress in this world. Does anyone disagree with that? If not, then it follows as surely as night follows day that the successful cooption of the Libyan revolutionaries by NATO, the CIA and Special Forces is a victory for reaction.
It's no good hoping that the small, poorly armed, poorly trained militias of the east of Libya who are now utterly dependent on external support, will somehow shake themselves free of such constraints once - if - they take power. The opposition leaders are now adjuncts to a NATO strategy which may not even have been disclosed to them. Let's at least give credit where it's due. This is NATO's war. And that means this is Washington's war."
No Early Solution TO Libya Crisis: UN
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/173114.html
"A UN envoy says that an early solution to the crisis in Libya is unlikely..."
Gaddaffi's African 'Mercenary' Story Is A Disinformation Ploy By the CIA - by Wayne Madsen
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24129
"The CIA's propganda campaign against black Africans in Libya was not limited to the editorial offices of television news bureaus of Washington, London, Paris and New York...The connivance of Western intelligence agencies, in concert with Israeli elements of Western corporate media, laid the ground work for the massacre of black Libyans.."
If there was ever a case for war crime convictions it would be for the use of depleted uranium. General Heinz wrote in a memo while he was taking a leading role in the Manhatten Project (memo was automatically declassified after fifty years and fell through the cracks wrt reclassification) that even if the project wasn't able to achieve nuclear fission that depleted uranium could still be used for massive depopulation operations. Also notice that DU has been used only against Arab countries (though wind currents distribute the radiation around the world). How many generations will it take before everybody that is in these countries is sterile. This is a massive genocide program orchestrated by the "Never Again Crowd" and yet there is nothing but psychic numbing, no outrage, nothing except a "boring" and a big yawn. For a big clue about who is behind this identify the person that authorized the first use of depleted uranium as a weapon (elevator counter weights just aren't the same thing.)
Making Peace In Libya
http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20110404/163371833.html
"China is now one of the leading voices for peace in the Libyan conflict, as is Russia. There are several other peace initiatives..."
Family of Libyan Leader Muammar Gaddafi
http://en.rian.ru/infographics/20110328/163250484.html
"The Libyan leader has 8 biological and 2 adopted children..'
Petras: Libya And Obama's Defense of The 'Rebel Uprising'
http://www.countercurrents.org/petras040411.htm
"...Western imperialist intervention has heightened national consciousness among the Libyan people, who now view their confrontation with the anti-Gaddafi 'rebels' as a fight to defend their homeland from foreign air and sea power and puppet land troops - a powerful incentive for any people or army. The opposite is true for the 'rebels', whose leaders have surrendered their national identity and depend entirely on imperialist military intervention to put them in power. What rank and file 'rebel' fighters are going to risk their lives, fighting their own compatriots just to place their country under an imperialist or neo-colonial rule?"
US And Allies Gear Up For Protracted War in Libya
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/apr2011/liby-a05.shtml
NATO's Rasmussen, Erdogan Discuss Libya Truce Prospects
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-240206-natos-rasmussen-erdogan-discuss-l...
"NATO is among those saying a new UN resolution would be required to arm rebels, though Britain and the US disagree. Several world leaders, including Prime Minister Erdogan oppose arming rebels. 'This could also create an environment which could be conducive to terrorism, and that would be dangerous,' he said."
Libya 'Ready' To Discuss Reforms (and vid)
http://english.aljazeera.net//news/africa/2011/04/201144235152904180.htm...
"Information minister says the people will decide their own future, calling Gaddafi a 'safety valve' for unity in Libya.."
ps - check out the new rocket assembly in the picture next to Mo's . These will be the ones they just got trained on in Eastern Libya by Egyptian and US Special Forces. Haven't had time to go to Janes and look it up yet. But so much for the pretense such things have yet to be decided..
Whistleblower: Libya's 'Vampire War' Is About Oil, Lockerbie and CIA Heroin - by Susan Lindauer
http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Libya-s-Blood-For-Oil-the-by-Susan-Li...
"Last October, US oil giants -- Chevron and Occidential Petroleum -- made a surprising decision to pull out of Libya, while China, Germany, and Italy stayed on, signing major contracts with Gaddafi's government. As the US Asset who started negotiations for the Lockerbie Trial with Libyan diplomats, I had close ties to Libya's UN Mission from 1995 - 2003. Given this long involvement in the Lockerbie saga, I continued to enjoy special access to high level intelligence gossip on Libya.
Last summer that gossip got juicy.."
Thanks NDPP. Lots of news to skim for sure. I'll have to read that Susan Lindauer piece later. She's written some juicy stuff before.
'Somalia Scenario' In Libya A Real Threat Says Russian Politician
http://rt.com/politics/deputy-pm-warns-turn/
"Do you need a Somalia scenario in Libya? I doubt it. But it is a real threat,' he said. 'A Somalia-like situation could be the worst possible outcome of the developments in Libya. And it is quite possible..."
Government bombardment pushes back Libyan rebels
Gadaffi and rebel forces exchange artillery fire around Brega as Gadaffi's troops keep the upper hand for now.
Libyan government forces on Tuesday unleashed a withering bombardment of the rebels outside a key oil town pushing them back, even as the regime said Moammar Gadhafi might consider some reforms but would not stepping down.
The rebels managed to take part of the oil town of Brega the day before, aided by an international air campaign that NATO says has already destroyed nearly a third of Gadhafi's weaponry, but the rocket and artillery salvos unleashed on the rebels indicates the government's offensive capabilities remain very much intact.
"When you see this, the situation is very bad. We cannot match their weapons," said Kamal Mughrabi, 64, a retired soldier who joined the rebel army. "If the planes don't come back and hit them we'll have to keep pulling back."
Rebel attempts to fire rockets and mortars against the government forces were met with aggressive counter bombardments that sent many of the rebel forces scrambling back all the way to the town of Ajdabiya, dozens of miles (kilometers) away. There did not appear to be any immediate response from the international aircraft patrolling the skies that have aided the rebels in the past.
Early on Tuesday, however, there was an airstrike against a convoy of eight government vehicles advancing toward rebel positions, rebel officer Abdel-Basset Abibi said, citing surveillance teams.
Some better trained and equipped units' are showing up on the rebel side but are yet to influence the battle.
Rebel forces have been helped by the arrival on the front of more trained soldiers and heavier weapons, but they are still struggling to match the more experienced and better equipped government troops, even with the aid of airstrikes.
I found a picture of a rebel pickup truck with an aircraft rocket launcher pod bolted to the bed... While innovatively brilliant and resourceful I hope this isn't what the press is referring to as heavier weapons.
Well, ok, I guess you could call it a heavy weapon but Wow!
UN Praised Libya's Human Rights Record: Washington Attempted to Block It
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24154
"During the interactive dialogue, statements were made by 46 delegations. Several delegates also noted with appreciation the country's commitment to upholding human rights on the ground..."
Libyan Newslinks
http://williambowles.info/2011/04/04/libya-newslinks-3-4-april-2011/
TRN: Glen Ford: The US Intervention Does Not Have Humanitarian Objectives (and vid)
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&I...
"Well it is an imperial assault. We don't need to lose sight of the forest just because individual trees are acting this way and that. What we're seeing is a united Euro-American assault on a major oil producer.."
Michel Collon: About the Libyan intervention etc (vid)
http://www.michelcollon.info/Michel-Collon-about-the.html?lang=fr
"Michel Collon speaks about the intervention in Libya, the media lies applied to the war and the differences between a good Arab and a bad Arab.."
The War on Libya: WWIII Scenario? - by Paul Craig Roberts
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24146
"...a third reason for targeting Libya is that Libya and Syria are the only two countries with Mediterranean sea coasts that are not under the control or influence of Washington.."
Libya Live (auto updates and vid)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/839...
Stop NATO News, April 5
http://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/stop-nato-news-april-5-2011/
Western Jets Continue to Bomb Libya
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/173270.html
'NATO Unable To Protect Libyan People'
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/173305.html
"Libyan revolutionary forces have criticized NATO over what they call the Western militay alliance's inability to prevent regime forces from killing civilians.."
'UK Behind ME Disintegration Plots'
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/173289.html
Boots On The Ground - by James M Dubic
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/05/boots_on_the_ground
"The Obama administration should prepare for the inevitable in Libya. To win this fight and prevent a coming anarchy, it's going to take a lot more than a no-fly zone..."
French Fraud Behind Libya War Drive - by Justin Raimondo
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2011/04/05/french-fraud-behind-libya-...
"BHL never acknowledges what is apparent to even a casual observer of the Libyan events: that Gadhafi has real support in the country, especially in the area around Tripoli. This is the reason it hasn't been a quick victory for the rebels.."
'US Wants Arab World Destabilized' - Interview: Webster Tarpley
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/173090.html
"...What Gaddafi has succeeded in doing, is to whip away the edifying rhetoric of colour revolutions, the tomorrows of democracy and human rights to reveal what is underneath, which is a brutal imperialist power grab against Libya and many other countries.."
CIA OPERATIVE APPOINTED TO RUN AL-QAEDA CONNECTED LIBYAN REBELS
"It's necessary to have a public debate about the U.S. role in Libya, but it's important to get the facts right - al Qaeda is not driving the Libyan resistance," the foundation and globalist liberals insist.
They are right, but not in the way they think. The CIA is the driving force and al-Qaeda is just window dressing consisting of the usual dupes, patsies, useful idiots, and assorted psychopaths on the payroll.
The Two Faces Of Libya's Rebels
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/05/the_two_faces_of_libyas...
"...The rebels consist of two distinct groups: the fighters and the political leadership.."
Obama's Libyan Folly - by Richard Falk
http://www.zcommunications.org/obamas-libyan-folly-by-richard-falk
"...What the world actually witnessed was mainly something other than an effort to protect Libyan civilians. It was rather an unauthorised attempt to turn the tide of the conflict in favour of the insurrectionary campaign by destroying as many of the military assets possessed by Libya's armed forces as possible...The PR full court press also misleadingly convinced world opinion and Western political leaders that the Gaddafi regime was opposed and hated by the entire population of Libya."
I am sorry, but Webster Tarpley is a former Larouchite, a conspiracy theorist - and not just on 9/11 as MIHAP - but on a lot of things. He also ties to Eustace Mullins, Holocaust denier. He really does not seem appropriate to rabble.
'US Wants Arab World Destabilized' - Interview: Webster Tarpley
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/173090.html
"...What Gaddafi has succeeded in doing, is to whip away the edifying rhetoric of colour revolutions, the tomorrows of democracy and human rights to reveal what is underneath, which is a brutal imperialist power grab against Libya and many other countries.."
Fighting Rages Near Key Libyan Towns
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/173448.html
"Heavy fighting has been reported between revolutionaries and forces loyal to embattled ruler Muammar Gadfafi near strategically important Libyan towns.."
Gadhafi Asks Obama To Call Off NATO Military Campaign (and vid)
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110406/libya-rebels-and-pro-gadha...
Libya News Links
http://williambowles.info/2011/04/06/libya-newslinks-5-6-april-2011
US Public Relations Firm Aids Libyan Rebels
http://strategic-culture.org/news/2011/04/06/us-public-relations-firm-ai...
"The Harbour Group, a small but well connected Washington public relations firm is helping Libya's most prominent rebel organisation to raise its profile among journalists and politicians in the US capital.."
The Nature Of the Gaddafi Regime - Historical Background Notes
http://www.marxist.com/nature-of-gaddafi-regime.htm
"We provide a brief historical outline of the development of the Gaddafi regime from the bourgeois Arab nationalism of the early days, to the period of so-called Islamic socialism, to the recent period of opening up to foreign investment, with major concessions to multinational corporations and the beginnings of widespread privatisations.."
I am sorry, but Webster Tarpley is a former Larouchite, a conspiracy theorist - and not just on 9/11 as MIHAP - but on a lot of things. He also ties to Eustace Mullins, Holocaust denier. He really does not seem appropriate to rabble.
But babble is filled with all kinds of links to quotes from actual Holocaust promoters and participants, traitors and other scumbags, from the Bush crime family themselves to news items about US car companies whose CEOs supported Adolf Hitler and the Nazis from the 1930s right up to late 1942 when the Red Army was turning tables on the Nazis at Leningrad and Stalingrad - and only then did the US Government think to criminalize corporate trading with and aiding and abetting our WW II enemies of freedom and democracy.
And their scumbaggery continues today with al-CIA-da teaming up with terrorists in the ongoing anticommunist jihad for oil and this time in Libya.
Read Qaddafi's Letter To Obama
http://www.businessinsider.com/qaddafi-obama-letter-2011-4
"Our Dear Son, Excellency, Baraka Hussein Abu Oumama...
I always thought that Toyota should make a commercial with a montage of these things, along these lines:
"Toyota trucks: Tough enough for Jihad, tough enough for you"
"While some trucks are Like a Rock, built Ford tough, or Ram Tough, only Toyotas can fight the fight."
Or, Ford and GM good enough for Franco and the axis powers of yesteryear.
Toyota tough enough for Bob Gates' and Elvis bin Laden's boyz in Libya today.
Libya And The Laws Of War: Interview with Michael Mandel by Thomas Kollman
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2011/mandel040411.html
UN Calls For Halt to Libya War
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/173483.html
"The UN has called for a cessation in the fighting between Muammar Gaddafi loyalists and revolutionary forces around the Libyan city of Misratah.."
Who Supplies Gaddafi With Israeli Arms?
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/173382.html
"The Palestinian Fatah movement is investigating reports alleging that Mohammed Dahlan and Khalid Salam were involved in supplying Israeli made weapons to embattled Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.."
Divisions Among Imperial Powers Over Conduct of Libya Offensive - by Chris Marsden
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/apr2011/liby-a07.shtml
"Washington's decision to withdraw from participation in air bombardment of Libya has exacerbated tensions between the major powers, above all between the United States and France. The longer the offensive against Tripoli goes on, the more the pretence of a united effort gives way to ill concealed and sharp attacks over who will pay for the campaign and who will seize the lion's share of post-war Libyan oil assets.."
NATO bombs rebel tanks
Tired of bombing useless people laying around hospitals, the Gladio Gang take out a couple of their own terrorists with death from above.
One tearful oil company schill said, "Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar", which translates roughly as, Exxon-Qaeda is great! Exxon-Qaeda is great!
The unflinching truth from Chris Floyd:
Success Stories: The Imperium Strikes Back
Besieged Libyan rebel city looks for NATO rescue
The siege of Misrata deepens as its residence is desperate for relief. With the main rebel force stopped outside the eastern oil port of Brega there is little chance rebel forces can't reach them any time soon. So now their only hope is for the NATO led coalition to break the siege.
More than 40 days of siege, shelling and sniper fire by Moammar Gadhafi's forces have exacted a bloody price in rebel-held Misrata, Libya's third-largest city and a coveted prize in the deadlocked conflict. NATO, leading airstrikes against Gadhafi's troops, said Thursday it is trying to find a way to break the assault.
The U.N. warned of a "dire" situation in the rebels' last major foothold in the Gadhafi-controlled western half of Libya, saying hundreds of people in Misrata have been killed and wounded and that residents are running short of water, food and medicine.
While rebels are holding out, Gadhafi's forces have made inroads. Government troops have taken control of a main thoroughfare, Tripoli Street, and set up snipers' nests on nearby rooftops, including on the city's main high-rise. Mortars, shells and gunfire have pummeled holes into homes, mosques and a hospital in the city center, and streets are lined with burned out cars and shops. Terrified families driven out by snipers have sought refuge in seaside areas, cramming into mosques, schools and strangers' homes.
The urban warfare in Misrata, a city of 300,000, highlights the rebels' frustration with what they say is the slow pace of NATO airstrikes, meant to keep back Gadhafi's forces. Western officials have said it is difficult to act in Misrata because the regime's troops are too close to civilians.
So far world opinion has not led to pressure for the NATO Coalition to really do anything to break the siege...
Besieged Libyan rebel city looks for NATO rescue
[...]
So far world opinion has not led to pressure for the NATO Coalition to really do anything to break the siege...
I'm impressed at how NATO and rebel forces only target Gaddafi's military, while Gaddafi's forces only target civilians, children, hospitals, etc. I really really believe these objective news reports. They truly show how what we are witnessing is simply, and plainly, a battle between Good and Evil.
I'm also impressed with the noble struggle of an embattled opposition force, whose only desire in the world is to overthrow the Libyan government by force of arms, with the assistance of the greatest military powers in the world. Their only humble plea is to have more and faster killing of the government forces by the foreigners (and, preferably, less accidental killing of their own forces by friendly fire).
Yet, "so far world opinion has not let to pressure for the NATO Coalition to really do anything to break the siege..."
Shame on world opinion!! Where are the cries for blood when we need them the most?? For, as we know, the U.S., U.K., Canada, and France would never, ever, dream of taking military action in the absence of advance approval by "world opinion". That's just the kind of democratic people we are.
I'm impressed at how NATO and rebel forces only target Gaddafi's military, while Gaddafi's forces only target civilians, children, hospitals, etc.
I disagree; as I've reported Gaddafi's military is doing a very good job of targeting the rebels; they rout them every time they fire on them dispite NATO bombings.
So far world opinion has not led to pressure for the NATO Coalition to really do anything to break the siege...
Your own quoted source provides the reason why:
Western officials have said it is difficult to act in Misrata because the regime's troops are too close to civilians.
So far world opinion has not led to pressure for the NATO Coalition to really do anything to break the siege...
Your own quoted source provides the reason why:
Western officials have said it is difficult to act in Misrata because the regime's troops are too close to civilians.
I'm thinking it will take something like what got this BS "no fly zone " crap started... you know; protests and demands something be done about the siege with all the media coverage leading the way followed by a UN mandate or resolution to avoid a massacre BLAAH BLAAH BLAAH.
Same format just different bull shit. Only then would NATO risk going after those close in targets... (Not that it would help in my opinion)
In for a penny, in for a pound... that was one of the reasons I opposed this "intervention".
.
If there was ever a case for war crime convictions it would be for the use of depleted uranium. [...] Also notice that DU has been used only against Arab countries (though wind currents distribute the radiation around the world). How many generations will it take before everybody that is in these countries is sterile. This is a massive genocide program orchestrated by the "Never Again Crowd" and yet there is nothing but psychic numbing, no outrage, nothing except a "boring" and a big yawn. For a big clue about who is behind this identify the person that authorized the first use of depleted uranium as a weapon (elevator counter weights just aren't the same thing.)
Strange that no one has challenged this slightly crazy post, but they actually haven't only been used in Arab countries, they were also used in Kosovo and Bosnia, no?
I see their use as callousness, not genocide. They are very deadly in battle and the fact that they pollute horribly is probably just seen as irrelevant. Without a bit more evidence (heck--any evidence) I think the charge of genocide here is preposterous...
I'm thinking it will take something like what got this BS "no fly zone " crap started... you know; protests and demands something be done about the siege with all the media coverage leading the way followed by a UN mandate or resolution to avoid a massacre BLAAH BLAAH BLAAH.
Same format just different bull shit. Only then would NATO risk going after those close in targets... (Not that it would help in my opinion)
In for a penny, in for a pound... that was one of the reasons I opposed this "intervention".
Yeah,
In other words,
This is a quagmire,
Like Vietnam, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Somalia and possibly Yemen
that is only going to suck us deeper into it.
Strange that no one has challenged this slightly crazy post, but they actually haven't only been used in Arab countries, they were also used in Kosovo and Bosnia, no?
I see their use as callousness, not genocide. They are very deadly in battle and the fact that they pollute horribly is probably just seen as irrelevant. Without a bit more evidence (heck--any evidence) I think the charge of genocide here is preposterous...
I should have been more accurate and stated that DU has only been used against Muslims, which would include all the Arab countries that it has been used in, as well as Kosovo and Bosnia. (But because ultrafine nano particles are generated when it combusts the trade winds spread it around the globe and radiate us all; so I guess that makes it okay and moral)
Use the Babble search feature for depleted uranium, and if you can't find any information that gives credibility to genocide then you're just not looking.
Here I will make it easy for him OV
DU shells prove that NATO has no regard for the civilians of Libya. This crap will murder indiscriminately at low levels from here on forward. No way to tell whether you supported the rebels or Gaddafi when you succumb to cancer.
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/your-name-ca...
I agree that the use of DU is abhorrent and a war crime. I just don't see it as targeted genocide against muslims. Might I remind you that in both Bosnia and Kosovo the weapons were used against Christians, not Muslims, even though of course as you say it ends up affecting everyone.
Shooting Christian armies with dirty weapons as a tactic to murder Muslims makes no sense except in the realm of conspiracy theory.
Some things require intent and some don't. For instance in Canada no intent is required to prove discrimination. I don't know whether the use of DU weapons is intended to specifically kill Libyan Moslems or not but if it does in enough numbers then it is genocide without the need to prove intent.
Lets face it even the Germans were not exclusive. They clearly managed to carry out genocide against Jewish people while still killing large numbers of blue eyed Aryan leftists and gays not to mention the Roma and other groups. So yes IMO NATO is capable of committing genocide against one group while killing various other groups as well.
At this point I don't think the scale of the murder in Libya by itself is large enough to warrant the term but then only time will tell. However if you total up the Iraqi, Afghan and Pakistani deaths and add them to Libyan count the numbers start to get rather large.
No one targets "Muslims". What kind of bs is this? The U.S. and other imperialists target whoever opposes their rule, irrespective of religion. They love and support the so-called "Muslim" keepers of Mecca - the fascist princes of Saudi Arabia. The Shah was a "Muslim" too. You think they hated him? Wake up.
Imperialism uses religion to play divide and rule. Anyone who thinks they actually care if someone is Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or atheist, has got some serious case of rocks in the head.
Yep, the imperialists are not prejudiced against ethnicity or nationality when it comes to using them as pawns over the near or long term. They basically hate everybody who doesn't voluntarily lay down to be crushed by an imperialist machine. They will use and abuse everyone regardless. Their treachery is unbounded. There is now little incentive for independent resource-rich countries to adhere to the western world's non-proliferation hypocrisy.
The people being targeted are targeted because they live near strategic resources. I agree Unionist that religion is only relevant as a tool being used to divide and conquer. America is an empire driven by greed that uses racism and religious intolerance to breed fear and anger within the people of the west, so they will continue to support foreign wars.
This latest imperialist maneuver only confirms the west's nuclear non-proliferation hypocrisy. It would almost be foolish for certain countries not to strive toward achieving nuclear weapons capability.
The MAD plan worked for a couple of decades with basically two nuclear powers. I am not sure whether I would expect the same success rate with a new multinational MAD scheme. It always comes down to the countries that have nukes signing treaties to disarm first and then they would have the moral authority to have an international agency impose non-proliferation. I think that the NATO's new regime change mentality will likely cause some of the nastiest people on the planet to be pushing their weapons upgrades to the WMD level.
Violence begets violence and peace can only be achieved by not fighting. Arming bears might leave some hunters dead but it doesn't make it any safer for hikers in the woods.
Well we have seen recently that Gaddafi has been putting out feelers for a truse of some kind.. So far there is not word form NATO about stopping their invasion.
So it's NO Fly Zone turned into regime change.
Canadian people are now complicit through our governemnts support of an illegal war in Libya.
Does anyone really believe that the Libyan freedom fighters want democracy? Does anyone really believe that armed insurrection (supported presumably by the west) does not deserved an armed response by the government? I am not claiming Ghadafi is a saint (actually I think he should be killed), but I certainly do not support Canadian Armed forces attacking a sovereign nation without direct provocation.
And while I am on this military soapbox, what on earth do we (Canada) need stealth fighters for? How about a homebuilt Navy to help protect our own sovereignty (we do have the most coastline in the world, or near to it). Spending billions for a vague trickle down certainly seems like bad business. We could start to beef up our own aerospace industry for that kind of cash and the jobs and tech would then be our own.
The Harpers are supporting the US Military, CIA, Brits, French, Egyptians etc who are in turn supporting the rebs 'n al-Qaeda.
Steve-Qaeda, the unseen enemy.
NATO in Libya: The Syrian Script
http://www.kabobfest.com/2011/04/nato-in-libya-the-syrian-script.html
"...The main objectives of this operation seem to be identical to all former operations on behalf of the super-powers: the prolonging of the profit-generating war. Like the popular video game 'Counter-Strike', it doesn't really matter who teams up with the 'Terrorist' team or the 'Counter-Terrorist' team, because the objective of the game is not ideological, but to play!
When will people understand that once you're high up in the game, your loyalty is only to yourself, for your own power or wealth? And that whoever displays genuine ideological loyalties of any kind is going to get excluded from the game..."
John Pilger: The CIA Is Behind The Rebellion
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24225
"The Euro-American attack on Libya has nothing to do with protecting anyone. Only the terminally naive believe such nonsense. It is the West's response to popular uprisings in strategic, resource-rich regions of the world and the beginning of a war of attrition against the new imperial rival, China.."
Brilliantly to the point.
More on China ...
LIBYA, ALONG WITH ANGOLA AND NIGERIA, IS CHINA'S PRINCIPAL SOURCE OF OIL.
I am not sure if that is true but I think we should stick to reliable sources and not promote or encourage people to go to racists and conspiracy theorists. Really I should not even have to state that.
But babble is filled with all kinds of links to quotes from actual Holocaust promoters and participants, traitors and other scumbags, from the Bush crime family themselves to news items about US car companies whose CEOs supported Adolf Hitler and the Nazis from the 1930s right up to late 1942 when the Red Army was turning tables on the Nazis at Leningrad and Stalingrad - and only then did the US Government think to criminalize corporate trading with and aiding and abetting our WW II enemies of freedom and democracy.
And their scumbaggery continues today with al-CIA-da teaming up with terrorists in the ongoing anticommunist jihad for oil and this time in Libya.
I am not sure if that is true ...
It's true. And then after the corporate sponsored war of annihilation against Soviet communism finally ended by 1945, the US and Brits essentially reconstructed Hitler's intel agency to run the spy ops out of West Germany, run false flag operations and commit acts of terrorism both sides of the iron curtain. Today Anglela Merkel and that government are trying to avoid the spotlight on former Nazis still lurking in Germany's BND -successors to Heinrich Himmler's SS. They were caught red-handed bombing an embassy in Kosovo three years ago at a time when NATO's role there in the eastern edge of Europe was questioned.
And that old Hollywood movie, Marathon Man, with Dustin Hoffman? It was a lot worse than that. Our cold war era political leaders welcomed THOUSANDS of Nazi war criminals into North America and Latin America with open arms knowing full well who they were.
April 6-7 Libya, Selected News Articles, Reports and Analysis - by William Bowles
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24209
Recollections Of My Life: Col Mu'ummar Qaddafi
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Recollections-of-my-Life--by-Sam-Hamod-...
"...Now I am under attack by the biggest force in military history. My little African son, Obama, wants to kill me, to take away our free housing, our free medicine, our free education, our free food, and replace it with American style thievery, called 'capitalism'. But all of us in the Third World know what that means, it means corporations run the countries, run the world, and the people suffer. So, there is no alternative for me, I must make my stand, and if Allah wishes, I shall die..."
Dennis Kucinich: Responding To The Office Of Legal Counsel's Positively Orwellian Rationale for Libyan War
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Responding-to-the-Office-o-by-Dennis-Ku...
"In the sophistry of the Office of Legal Counsel's memo, the Obama administration fails to justify what cannot be justified..."
April 8-9: Libya Selected Articles, Analysis and News - by William Bowles
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24250
Wow!!! Talking about taking a quote out of context. You said "But babble is filled with all kinds of links to quotes from actual Holocaust promoters and participants, traitors and other scumbags" and I was referring to that, not whether the USA and its CIA used former 3rd Reich types. Given that my previous point was about that we should not use sources who are conspiracy theorists, etc that should have been clear.
I am referring to babble and who we should use as sources.
I am not sure if that is true ...
It's true. And then after the corporate sponsored war of annihilation against Soviet communism finally ended by 1945, the US and Brits essentially reconstructed Hitler's intel agency to run the spy ops out of West Germany, run false flag operations and commit acts of terrorism both sides of the iron curtain. Today Anglela Merkel and that government are trying to avoid the spotlight on former Nazis still lurking in Germany's BND -successors to Heinrich Himmler's SS. They were caught red-handed bombing an embassy in Kosovo three years ago at a time when NATO's role there in the eastern edge of Europe was questioned.
And that old Hollywood movie, Marathon Man, with Dustin Hoffman? It was a lot worse than that. Our cold war era political leaders welcomed THOUSANDS of Nazi war criminals into North America and Latin America with open arms knowing full well who they were.
Wow!!! Talking about taking a quote out of context. You said "But babble is filled with all kinds of links to quotes from actual Holocaust promoters and participants, traitors and other scumbags" and I was referring to that, not whether the USA and its CIA used former 3rd Reich types. Given that my previous point was about that we should not use sources who are conspiracy theorists, etc that should have been clear.
I am referring to babble and who we should use as sources.
Tarpley's fine with me. He is an oligarchologist historian and critic of US policies. What's your real beef with political dissenters and dissidents alike? Should they be thrown in a gulag at Gitmo for speaking out against the CIA's secret prisons for illegal detention and torture dotting the globe?
The links between the American CIA and al-Qaeda are well established. Even the CIA admits they created and then aided and abetted al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups during their 1980s-90s war covert against secular socialism in Central Asia. This is historical fact not conspiracy theory. And it is no secret today that the American CIA and their gladio friends are training and arming al-Qaeda in Libya. Areas where the rebels come from in Libya are also well known Qaeda hotspots. Gadhafi thought that he was working with the west to fight a global war on terror. But the reality is that it's a phony war on terror. al-Qaeda - al-CIA'da all the while.
No I am more than fine with criticism of the US so long as it comes from a good reputable source. Tarpley is a conspiracy theorist and using him makes any argument that much weaker and moreover he does not deserve promotion.
There should be a sharp distinction between institutional analysis (ie Chomsky, Shalom, Fisk, Finklestein, Herman, Albert) and conspiracy theorists (ie Alex Jones, Tarpley, LaRouche). The former encourages thinking, the latter passivity and incoherence.
Really, should I even have to bring this up here?
Chomsky doesn't believe that GWOT is real either. He says he's not exactly sure why Canada's vicious toadies in Ottawa sent Canada's colonial troop force to Afghanistan. Chomsky does say that he believes it has nothing to do with pursuing al-Qaeda though.
And if you think that 9/11 was not an inside job, then you must be under the false impression that al-Qaeda represents a standalone foreign threat to US National Security since at least 9/11/01. The 9/11 Omission Cover-up made no mention of the US Government's various shady dealings with al-Qaeda terrorists in different parts of the world for many years leading up to 9/11 and even since then.
The CIA and Brits are aiding and abetting al-Qaeda in Libya today. They have admitted this as well.
Libya rebels: Gaddafi could be right about al-Qaeda
IOWs, there is more evidence pointing to the real possibility that 9/11 was another CIA-Military black operation, a covert intelligence operation that was basically designed as a sales job by the US Military and CIA for the benefit of Congress and US taxpayers who have been footing the bills for the nuclear-armed militarized state since the 1940s and 50s. They need enemies whether real or imaginary, and since 1991, the enemies have been mostly imaginary.
The 9/11 Omission cover-up is pure conspiracy theory. Secret evidence and government secrecy is shit. This is the same logic that the Spanish and Catholic and then Roman-Catholic inquisitions were built on in order to prop-up corrupt and oppressive regimes in power for centuries at a time. It's kaka. Illegal renditions and tortured confessions are not considered legal evidence outside the realm of the American inquisition hiding behind their own military tribunals. They are hiding the truth about 9/11.
The people of Iraq are protesting against the invader/illegitimate ruler.
A demonstration against the American invasion is held each April 9, the anniversary of the fall of Baghdad in 2003 and the date when Iraqis, with the help of American Marines, pulled down a statue of the dictator Saddam Hussein in Firdos Square in Baghdad.
Posters that proclaimed "Down with America" were distributed to the crowds, and some people burned American flags and chanted slogans like "Get out! Get out! America the great devil!" Others spoke of their "religious duty" to "expel the occupier."
But the event - an annual rite of the Shiite underclass loyal to Mr. Sadr - took on more political importance this year because it came amid the debate here and in Washington about whether American troops will leave on schedule by the end of the year or stay on in some capacity. The departure date was set by a security agreement that binds both countries.
"We want them to get out of the country," said Sheik Ahmed al-Hasnawi, one of the event's organizers. "It's the last year for them."
US warplanes, in their ever-vigilant campaign to bring democracy to the Middle East, are reportedly shooting themselves down in support of the Iraqis.
Libya Rebels Had NATO Weapons From Day 1 (and vid)
http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2011/04/libya-rebels-had-nato-weapons-day-1
"Libyan 'rebels' from the Feb. 17 armed coup attempt to overthrow the Libyan government had brand new weapons since the first day of the uprising. These weapons were of non-Libyan origin and had already been secretly imported into Libya in advance of Feb. 17..."
Gaddafi Accepts Ceasefire: AU Mediator
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/174157.html
"South African President Jacob Zuma says the embattled Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi has accepted the African Union's roadmap for a ceasefire to end the war in Libya. An AU mediation delegation held talks with Gaddafi's team on Sunday about a peace plan to put an end to the conflict, AFP reported.."
Continued here.