Malaysian plane crash part 2

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Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

PUTIN SETS HIS DISINFORMATION TROLLS ON THE MH17 INVESTIGATORS

Quote:
 The Kremlin has turned its disinformation machine on those who are investigating the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over Ukraine in July 2014, using state employees, state-run media and the state-run, though unacknowledged, "troll factory" of fake internet accounts.

The primary goal of the media attacks has been to undermine the credibility of citizen journalist group Bellingcat, an independent researcher into the crash.

 

No kidding...LOL 

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Thanks for the link, Bec. Very interesting.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
“vilify and amplify.”

Clever strategy.  Nice to have a name for it.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Christ, who needs trolls? Bellingcat has discredited himself. He's about as reliable as the Syrian information body ... run out of a basement in  Crawley, England or some such place.

Here's a nice bit of repetition. Any of you genuises care to comment?

Quote:
...  the investigators neglected to make enquires as to why a passenger jetliner was allowed to fly over a dangerous war zone.

Wake me up when there's a coherent and credible reply.

ooh rah.


 

6079_Smith_W

I thought I did already, Perhaps you missed it.

And it's not "Boo Rah" anymore? You haven't posted that "whoop ass beans" pic for awhile. Maybe it is time to haul that tired old cliche out again, since you seem to be mixing it up.

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:
I thought I did already, Perhaps you missed it.

Nice non reply. Next.

 

6079_Smith_W

No. Just a reference to what I did say back at #99.

Here's some background.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fly_zone

http://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/a17807/why-are-civilian-airliners...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
..  the investigators neglected to make enquires as to why a passenger jetliner was allowed to fly over a dangerous war zone.

Let's not ask who murdered that person, let's ask instead who allowed them to walk across a dark parking lot at night.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

 

Quote:
PM has long been a supporter of the U.S. military. The magazine ran a full page ad in support of the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan in May 2003. Since the purge last September, however, PM readers have noticed that government propaganda has replaced scientific writing. A letter to the editor in the current issue says, I think you guys are just another tool in the governments propaganda machine.

Gotcha!

Why not quote the missives of the State Department directly? lol.

6079_Smith_W

I

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Let's not ask who murdered that person, let's ask instead who allowed them to walk across a dark parking lot at night.

And even if you were to ask that second quesiton, it wouldn't be the nation. Never mind that some are putting this down to who the magazine which reports that information sells ads to.

Beyond giving someone an excuse to ignore reality, I am not sure how it is relevant. I am sure this isn't the last time he'll resort to playing that game though.

 

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I'm starting to think that what we really need is a "Russophilia" thread.  Just one catch-all bucket for all posts that assume Russia can do no wrong.  Everything from the bravery and sacrifice of those doped-up Russian athletes to the Russian attempts to make a better Syria (despite NATO!) to conclusive proof that someone else allowed a civilian airliner to travel the skies above some trigger happy pro-Russians.

Babble encourages participation from other marginalized groups, like Indigenous Canadians, and transpersons.  Why not a special thread for the biggest victims of all -- the largest country on Earth?

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:
I'm starting to think that what we really need is a "Russophilia" thread.

 

http://rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/russia-3

 

We have such a thread, but it's bunged up with the missives of the babble chattering class. You know. You and your friends.

Unionist

Unionist, on July 14, 2014 wrote:

Straw poll time!

Choose one:

1. Moscow

2. Kyiv

3. Washington (aka Langley)

4. Beijing

5. Hamas

6. Tel Aviv

7. Don't know

8. Don't care

9. Can't figure out how to make political mileage out of uninformed speculation about the cause, so stop sending me these polls.

Oh sorry, I was referring to this:

Taiwan TransAsia Airways plane crash kills at least 40

No one answered my poll. So, two years later:

Unionist, in April 2016, wrote:

Hilarious thread.

No one knows what caused the MH17 crash.

So, everyone blames the "side" they hate.

Any evidence to the contrary is automatically discarded.

In a better world, people would join hands and say: "We are ignorant! We are mortal! We are no better than anyone else! Let us seek truth together!"

Not in my lifetime.

Sorry, I couldn't think of anything new to say about a disaster that no one knows anything about but everyone has something to say about. I find the idle speculators on both sides of this tragedy to be equally scary. They will believe and repeat virtually anything, based solely on which saint/villain they support.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Unionist wrote:
Sorry, I couldn't think of anything new to say about a disaster that no one knows anything about but everyone has something to say about. I find the idle speculators on both sides of this tragedy to be equally scary. They will believe and repeat virtually anything, based solely on which saint/villain they support.

 

Pepe Escobar wrote:

"it is in any case the nature of these kind of attacks that makes it impossible to identify the perpetrator. In the past sixty years it happened twenty times that an airliner was shot from the air during a military action, usually by accident, by a ground-to-air-rocket or a fighter jet. In all cases things were settled outside the courtroom. Parties were bribed. Even if there was no doubt about the evidence, like in 2001, when Ukraine downed an airliner with a rocket. The political interests always prevailed over the truth. The MH17 case won’t be an exception to this."

6079_Smith_W

Unionist wrote:

Sorry, I couldn't think of anything new to say about a disaster that no one knows anything about but everyone has something to say about. I find the idle speculators on both sides of this tragedy to be equally scary. They will believe and repeat virtually anything, based solely on which saint/villain they support.

In fact, there is a report now. There are links to it above, but the gist is the plane was brought down by a missile from a launcher in rebel-held territory and which came from Russia, and was returned to Russia.

It is not true that "no one knows anything"; it is not all just idle speculation. And it is not dependent on heroes and villains.

And really, I try not to be scary. Excuse me if my comments make you feel that way.

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

And really, I try not to be scary. Excuse me if my comments make you feel that way.

Your comments don't scare me. What scares me is the utter unflinching unalterable predictability of the discourse on both "sides" of this issue. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
What scares me is the utter unflinching unalterable predictability of the discourse on both "sides" of this issue.

There's a bit of a "teach both theories" vibe to this, though.  As though the formal investigation report and Putin's feelings have some sort of equivalence.

6079_Smith_W

And as if there is an equivalence in terms of how  "unflinchingly unalterable"  people here have been.

Some of us have been pretty patient actually, without resorting to Boo Rahs and the rest of that crap.

Well the report is in and that "we don't really know anything" act simply doesn't apply anymore Unionist.

 

 

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Some of us have been pretty patient actually, without resorting to Boo Rahs and the rest of that crap.

Yeah, maybe, but you blamed Putin oh-so-nicely within days of the event, and you never let up for two seconds, not once. And your opponents are identical, but for the colour of the team jersey.

I ignore the opinions of both sides, because they're meaningless partisan nonsense, although I do look at links posted, because sometimes they point to interesting information. So give me a break. I can read. 

Quote:
Well the report is in and that "we don't really know anything" act simply doesn't apply anymore Unionist.

I have no idea what happened, and neither do you. Not a clue. The difference? I admit it.

 

6079_Smith_W

You mean this comment?

Quote:

But was it the locals who took that plane down? Somehow I doubt it. And in saying that I'm not pointing the finger directly at Putin either. Am I pointing it at him in terms of his setting this situation in motion? Absolutely.

He started the damned war, Unionist. He controls the border and the army, the mercenaries, and equipment that flows across it. So yes, I blame him for setting up the circumstances for this to happen.

And while we don't know exactly who in the rebel territory brought that plane down, we have an investigation report which shows the murder weapon coming over the border from Russia, and going back a few days later.

We have quite a bit of concrete information about what happened.

And sure you can claim to know nothing and look down your nose at both sides, but you pick interesting times to step in try to muddy the waters. Like right after the report is released. And I don't see you trying to hold ikosmos to task for things which I presume you also disagree with.

NDPP
6079_Smith_W
NDPP

CFUV PODCAST: Gorilla Radio -  JIT MH17 Findings - John Helmer (audio)

http://www.gorilla-radio.com/2016/10/07/gorilla-radio-chris-cook-john-he...

"The media's curious incuriousness surrounding the Dutch-led panel's probity, considering the scope of the story and its possible ramifications for international relations between Russia and the west at this most sensitive historical moment, may be the most telling part of the tragic mystery behind flight MH17..."

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Not content with shooting down a civilian airliner AGAIN, the brutal Banderist fascist-loving Ukrainian regime has decided to do missile tests ... over Crimea!

Who cares about the civilian aircraft? What could go wrong?

What a bunch of murderous thugs. The UN should just send in the troops and overthrow this fascist regime. And send the bill to Washington.

A "Buk" anti-aircraft battery launches a ground-to-air missile during the Ukrainian army's "Duel-99" military manoeuvres at the Chauda firing ground in the Crimean peninsula October 12, 1999

Kiev to hold missile-firing exercise over Crimea, where civil aviation performs flights - Moscow

Webgear

I beleive that Exercise Duel-99 was a joint Ukrainian and Russia exercise.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

lol.  Who's a clever fella?

well, I guess that makes firing missiles where civilian airliners fly hunky dory, eh?

C'mon. This stuff is obvious. The only reason that brutal regime is doing this stuff is because the Yanqui Obama regime is egging them on.

Webgear

I was just trying to show you that in previous joint exercises it was okay to fire missiles in the exact same area. I guess since it isn't Russia firing the missiles now it must not be okay.

You are a fucktard.

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

lol. You have a point. whoop de doo.

Do you really think it's wise - in the context of a civil war in which - literally - hundreds of people have died, shot out of the sky, plunging to a screaming, brutal death from their civilian aircraft - do you really think it's wise to carry out such "exercises" ?Do I really have to spell this shit out to you?

And, it was only recently that Ukro intelligence officers were apprehended trying to carry out terrorist attacks in the same Crimea?

wtf? Did I just fall off a turnip truck?

 

eta: I think you're smarter than you are letting on. This is just stupid, planning for disaster, and completely unnecessary. It's a provocation.

NDPP

Report: Australian Government Believes Ukraine Used MH17  As 'Human Shield'

http://russia-insider.com/en/russia-lie-detector-catches-australian-prim...

"According to new disclosures, the Australian Government believed in 2014 that in the daylight hours before MH17 was shot down, Ukrainian Government military forces were using the overflight of civilian airlines in eastern Ukraine as shadow and shield for attacks against ground targets in the belief the separatist forces would not return fire for fear of hitting the civilian airlines.."

Plus * bonus feature: G&M presstitute caught turning tricks with Cabinet minister on Parliament Hill

 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Really just give it up... How could the Ukrainians expect to use civilian airliners that were cruising on known routes, in straight lines, at over 30,000 feet as “shields for military air craft” most of which operate under 10,000 feet most of the time (to attack ground targets)?

The rebels weren’t supposed to have a weapon that could shot that high, remember, so there was no perceived threat to commercial aircraft that flew that high over the region.

So… now RT is saying the rebels were tricked into firing on that airliner by the Ukrainians? Wow

NDPP

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 - 1000 Days of Faking   -   by Max van der Werf

http://johnhelmer.net/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-one-thousand-days-of...

"On April 12, 2017, a thousand days had passed since Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was shot down above East Ukraine. Up until now, those who did it have not been identified, indicted or arrested and many questions remain unanswered..."

NorthReport

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17/MAS17)[a] was a scheduled passenger flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur that was shot down on 17 July 2014 while flying over eastern Ukraine, killing all 283 passengers and 15 crew on board.[2]Contact with the aircraft, a Boeing 777-200ER, was lost about 50 km (31 mi) from the Ukraine–Russia border and wreckage of the aircraft landed near Torez in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, 40 km (25 mi) from the border.[3] The crash occurred in an area controlled by the Donbass People's Militia during the Battle in Shakhtarsk Raion, part of the ongoing war in Donbass.[4] The crash is the deadliest airliner shootdown, and was Malaysia Airlines' second aircraft loss during 2014 after Flight 370 on March 8.[5]

In October 2015, the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) concluded that the airliner was downed by a Buk surface-to-air missile launched from pro-Russian separatist-controlled territory in Ukraine.[6][7] In September 2016, the Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) confirmed the missile type which had downed the aircraft and said that the Buk missile system had been transported from Russia on the day of the crash, fired from a field in a rebel controlled area and returned to Russia after the Buk was used to shoot down MH17. The JIT had established the identities of approximately 100 people, witnesses or suspects, who were linked to the transporting of the Buk, but said that their evidence "must stand before a court".[8]

The DSB and JIT findings confirmed earlier claims by American and German intelligence sources and the Ukrainian government as to the missile type and launch area. In 2014, Ukraine and US intelligence had also said that Russia had supplied the Buk missile to pro-Russian insurgents, who had mistakenly shot down the aircraft.[9][10][11][12] Also in 2014, German intelligence sources reported that they believed insurgents had stolen the missile from the Ukrainian military.[13][14][15]

Russian government sources initially claimed that the aircraft was being followed by a Ukrainian military jet at the time of the shootdown[10] and later that Ukraine was responsible since the crash had happened in Ukrainian airspace.[16]Several theories about the crash have since appeared in Russian media, and as of September 2016, the Russian government continues to deny responsibility for the crash.[8]

Immediately after the crash, a post appeared on the VKontakte social media profile attributed to Russian Colonel Igor Girkin, leader of the Donbass separatist militia, claiming responsibility for shooting down an AN-26 near Torez,[17] but later the same day the separatists denied involvement and the post was removed.[18][19][20] In late July 2014, communications intercepts were made public in which, it is claimed, separatists are heard discussing an aircraft that they had downed and later, their realisation that it was a civilian aircraft.[21][22][23]

Between November 2014 and May 2016, UK-based investigative collective Bellingcat made a series of allegations, based on their examination of photos in social media and other open-source information. Bellingcat said that the launcher used to shoot down the aircraft was a unit of the Russian 53rd Anti-Aircraft Rocket Brigade based in Kursk, Russia, which, they said, had been transported from Donetsk to Snizhne and was controlled by separatists in Ukraine on the day of the attack.[24][25][26][27][28]

In July 2015, Malaysia proposed that the United Nations Security Council set up an international tribunal to prosecute those deemed responsible for the downing of the plane. The Malaysian resolution gained a majority on the Security Council, but was vetoed by Russia.[29][30]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17

josh

Four men have been named as suspects in the 2014 destruction of a Malaysia Airlines flight traveling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, police said Wednesday.

The Associated Press reported that Dutch National Police chief Wilbert Paulissen named three Russian suspects and one Ukrainian at a press conference Wednesday, charging them with murder over a missile attack that downed the Boeing 777 plane carrying 298 people as it flew over eastern Ukraine.

https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/449255-4-people-to-be-tried-in-mh17-crash-relatives-say

NDPP

Mahatir Opens A Ukraine Political Pandora's Box

https://journal-neo.org/2019/06/09/mahatir-opens-a-ukraine-political-pan...

"...We don't know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it, and the idea was not to find out how this happened, but seems to be concentrated on trying to pin it to the Russians..."

 

Helmer: MH17 Prosecutions - The Dutch Fire Their Big Guns, The Subjunctive and Conditional Tenses, Plus Ukrainian Secret Service Tapes

http://johnhelmer.net/mh17-prosecution-the-dutch-fire-their-big-guns-the...

"Could isn't the same as did..."

WWWTT

The Netherlands laid criminal charges????

The only connection I see is that mh17 departed from Amsterdam. 

Another odd thing is the motive to shoot down this commercial flight. From my research, 55 planes earlier that day flew the same route. Coincidence?

And the most oddest thing (but for some reason not discussed in this thread from what I have skimmed over) is the 4 months earlier, the most mysterious unsolved aviation mystery mh370?

To this day, no wreckage or sign has been found. Nothing!

GPS satellite tracking homing device state of the art radar etc etc and still nothing. The most extensive international search exhausted and still nothing! You’d think it was like someone actually tried to hide the plane?

I can’t see what the Russian rebels would ever get out of shooting a commercial passenger jet?

To me this looks like an extortion on air Malaysia. For what reason, I have no idea? But I wouldn’t be surprised China is involved. Military tech? West vs east?

NDPP

MH17 Evidence Tampering Revealed By Malaysia - FBI Attempt to Seize Black Boxes; Dutch Cover-Up of Foreged Telephone Tapes; Ukrainian Air Force Hid Radar Records: Crash Site Witness Testimony Misrepresented (MUST WATCH)

http://johnhelmer.net/mh-17-evidence-tampering-revealed-by-malaysia-fbi-...

"A new documentary from Max an der Werff, the leading independent investigator of MH17 disaster, has revealed breakthrough evidence of tampering and forging of prosecution materials; suppression of Ukrainian Air Force radar tapes; and lying by the Dutch, Ukrainian, US and Australian governments..."

 

The Lie That Shot Down Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17

http://johnhelmer.net/page/3/?s=MH17

MH17 makes war criminals of Obama, Kerry, Poroshenko, Yatseniuk, Australian PM Turnball, FM Bishop, the Dutch PM Rutte, FM Timmermans, JIT's Westerbeke...Here's proof of what didn't happen..."

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