Massacre at Jewish School in France

99 posts / 0 new
Last post
Mr.Tea
Massacre at Jewish School in France

blank

Mr.Tea

TOULOUSE, FRANCE-A motorcycle gunman opened fire Monday in front of a Jewish school in the southwest French city of Toulouse, killing a father, his two sons and one other child, the prosecutor's office said.

It was the latest in a week of motorcycle shooting attacks in France. Two separate motorcycle gunman attacks have killed three paratroopers and left one other in critical condition in the same area.

Mysterious paratrooper shootings puzzle France

Prosecutor Michel Valet said a 30-year-old man and his 3-year-old and 6-year-old sons were killed in the attack just before classes started at the Ozar Hatorah school. He said another child, between 8 and 10 years old, was also killed, and a 17-year-old seriously injured.

French authorities were stepping up security at all Jewish schools in France, Interior Ministry spokesman Pierre-Henry Brandet said, adding the suspect made his getaway on a dark-colored scooter.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1148353--several-dead-in-jewis...

 

Slumberjack

Terrible.  Politically motivated perhaps, but racially inspired hatred on the one hand as we're told about in this instance, and no doubt there certainly are elements of the latter, compared against the lone US soldier in the Afghanistan context who simply went off of his rocker, as we're told.

Hoodeet

Slumberjack wrote:

Terrible.  Politically motivated perhaps, but racially inspired hatred on the one hand as we're told about in this instance, and no doubt there certainly are elements of the latter, compared against the lone US soldier in the Afghanistan context who simply went off of his rocker, as we're told.

Hoodeet (JW)

News updates indicate the same type of ammunition used against the Jewish victims was used in an attack that left two (or was it 3?) paratroopers dead at an ATM outside Toulouse.  The soldiers were of Arabic origin, according to the news report.  And there was a 3rd attack of a similar nature last week.   It could just as easily be by (a) a racist antisemitic anti-immigrant or (b) an anti-zionist islamist also wishing to punish Maghrebis who join the army...  But it is too early to speculate. (So I just did. Stupid.)

Todrick of Chat...

http://www.ndp.ca/press/statement-by-new-democrat-leader-nycole-turmel-on-killings-jewish-school-in-toulouse-france

Statement by New Democrat Leader Nycole Turmel on the killings at a Jewish school in Toulouse, France

I am appalled by the deaths of four people, including three children, at a Jewish school in Toulouse, France.

Without presuming the motives of the killer, I am outraged that innocent people, particularly children, have been sacrificed for any reason whatsoever.

On behalf of all New Democrats, I share the sadness of the victims' family and friends, as well as the entire school staff, the students of the school, and all of Toulouse.

NDPP

Anything for the dead Afghans slaughtered or the latest dead kids bombed in Gaza? Obviously some dead are more worthwhile than others.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

It isn't either/or...and nobody was privileging THESE deaths.

 

Unionist

Ken Burch wrote:

It isn't either/or...and nobody was privileging THESE deaths.

 

I beg to differ, Ken. I was stunned to see Nycole Turmel issuing a statement on this horrendous attack - while she apparently didn't read about the slaughter of 16 Afghan civilians by a soldier allied to Canada's forces and NATO. And so many others.

Her political sense, or that of her handlers, is offensive in the extreme.

As is [url=http://www.ndp.ca/press/statement-by-new-democrat-foreign-affairs-critic... more recent statement[/url] by Hélène Laverdière - her second lecture to the Egyptian people this year - the first being [url=http://www.ndp.ca/press/ndp-condemns-crackdown-on-foreign-ngos-in-egypt]a plea on behalf of two U.S. spy agencies[/url] masquerading as "NGOs" in Egypt and around the world.

Perhaps you can explain what these people are up to. Or maybe they just flip coins every day as to what to say? I don't get it.

Meanwhile, the country which collaborated with Hitler and sent Jews and many others to their death, within living memory, had better look in the mirror and stamp out racism everywhere it rears its ugly head - starting at the top.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Agreed on the last graph of your post.  Every country that collaborated with the Reich(and all the corporations that did the same)should end up in the dock at Nuremberg at some point.

NDPP...were you aiming your remark at Turmel, or at people here?  I hope you aren't implying that Babblers don't care about the deaths in Afghanistan or Gaza.

NDPP

Obviously, it was directed at Turmel. Nor do I think people here don't care.  There were three recent killings of kids reported in the MSM. Those murdered by the NATO soldiers in Afghanistan, those killed by the Zionist butcher's bombs in Gaza, and the children killed in Toulouse. If  Turmel is 'outraged that innocent people particularly children, have been sacrificed for any reason whatsoever,' why did only the Toulouse children receive NDP condolences? Clearly they WERE privileged. Why?

 

 

NDPP

The answer is because unlike the dead kids in France, the unmentioned ones were murdered under the auspices of 'allies' whose causes the ndp supports. The unmentionables and uncondoled are regarded at best as collateral damage and at worst as 'enemy dead'. And as we all know, we don't count those, nor do we send them condolences.

Fidel

Unionist wrote:
Meanwhile, the country which collaborated with Hitler and sent Jews and many others to their death, within living memory, had better look in the mirror and stamp out racism everywhere it rears its ugly head - starting at the top.

 

Germany? Poland? Hungary? I give up. Which entire country collaborated with Hitler to send Jews and other ethnics to their deaths?

Caissa

A gunman who killed four people at a Jewish school in Toulouse, France, may have filmed the attack, the interior minister said Tuesday, as hundreds of police combed southern France for the killer, suspected in three other deaths.

Interior Minister Claude Gueant said the attacker was "wearing around his neck an apparatus" that could be used to film and post video online. He said this gave investigators new clues to the killer's "profile," though he admitted they don't appear to be close to an arrest.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/03/20/france-shootings-tuesday.html

Hoodeet

Fidel wrote:

Unionist wrote:
Meanwhile, the country which collaborated with Hitler and sent Jews and many others to their death, within living memory, had better look in the mirror and stamp out racism everywhere it rears its ugly head - starting at the top.

 

Germany? Poland? Hungary? I give up. Which entire country collaborated with Hitler to send Jews and other ethnics to their deaths?

quote/Hoodeet:

Correct me if I'm wrong:  The way I recall my history is that the Vichy régime collaborated and its police force carried out the official policy.  In the part of France under German occupation you had the police forces and mayors collaborating under military orders, and many many ordinary citizens collaborated actively because of their antisemitism and a wish to rid France of the "foreigners" (many Polish, Russian, German Jewish expats) --a term handily extended to non-Christian French citizens. I don't know how many French civilians helped to harbour Jews or help them escape, but likely not as many as in Holland, Italy, Denmark... 

As for other countries: those under fascist regimes (Croatia, Hungary, Rumania, Lithuania, Estonia, Ukraine, ... I think I missed some) saw an increase in antisemitic persecution and, once German troops occupied those countries, collaboration in the deportations.  One of the things that most irritated Eichmann and other numbers-crunchers was receiving trainloads of Jews from those countries whose manifest did not correspond to the actual number of persons delivered -- Jews were often brutally murdered by local thugs before they were shipped  out, but after the lists had been drawn up.  The deportations occurred only from German-occupied territories (hence, only Northern Italy; Jews in non-occupied Italy weren't persecuted).

Not all citizens of those countries participated in the massacres but a large number of members of local fascist groups were given carte blanche to attack Jews.

To the credit of many individual fascists in Italy, Hungary,  Croatia and other countries, who especially resented the German military occupation, Jews were occasionally helped by friends or neighbours who happened to be nationalist fascists.

Mr.Tea

The initial theory was that the killer or killers were kicked out of the same paratrooper unit as the paratroopers who were killed in the first attack, for neo-Nazi sympathies. They've now been cleared and the police seem totally clueless as to who is behind these shootings, though they do believe that the shooter filmed the attacks while they were happening. France is on "Scarlet Alert" for the  first time in its history.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I'm guessing Sarko will use the moment to break out some of the old "Apres Moi, Le Deluge" rhetoric(sorry for the lack of punctuation marks, my Yank keyboard doesn't do those).

Caissa

Police hunting a gunman suspected of killing seven people in southern France are laying siege to a flat in Toulouse.

The man, named as Mohammed Merah, 24, a Frenchman of Algerian origin, has said he belongs to al-Qaeda and acted to "avenge Palestinian children".

Police are negotiating with the man, who is still said to be armed but says he may give himself up this afternoon.

French Interior Minister Claude Gueant said the man had been tracked by French intelligence for "several years".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17446999

Mr.Tea

I speak passable French and the last time I visited Israel (about 2 years ago), I was shocked at how frequently I got to speak French. I met so many recent Jewish immigrants from France who all said the same thing: They didn't feel safe in France and that there was no future for Jews there. They were right. Europe will soon be Judenrein.

Slumberjack

One might need to assume here that Mr. T's solution is for Europe to bestow second or third class citizenship on its applicants from Middle Eastern countries, with the exception of its dual citizens from Zio-Land that is, and make the neccessary structural adjustments to their security posture as it pertains to these new classes of citizens, just as Israel itself has done at home, so that the favoured citizens of the Israeli apartheid state may feel safe to come and go and to exist as they please, while at home in the occupied lands, entire populations and communities are maintained behind walls, barbed wire, and at the point of machine guns and tank cannons.  And I think if such measures were to be adopted throughout Europe, and in North America as well, people like our Mr. T. here would simply say...'yes, that'd be fine please and thanks.'

Mr.Tea

Slumberjack wrote:

One might need to assume here that Mr. T's solution is for Europe to bestow second or third class citizenship on its applicants from Middle Eastern countries, with the exception of its dual citizens from Zio-Land that is, and make the neccessary structural adjustments to their security posture as it pertains to these new classes of citizens, just as Israel itself has done at home, so that the favoured citizens of the Israeli apartheid state may feel safe to come and go and to exist as they please, while at home in the occupied lands, entire populations and communities are maintained behind walls, barbed wire, and at the point of machine guns and tank cannons.  And I think if such measures were to be adopted throughout Europe, and in North America as well, people like our Mr. T. here would simply say...'yes, that'd be fine please and thanks.'

Yeah, one might "assume" that...if one were a fucking idiot.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Are you ok, Unionist? Your post just stopped in the middle of a sentence.

 

Unionist

Mr.Tea wrote:

I speak passable French and the last time I visited Israel (about 2 years ago), I was shocked at how frequently I got to speak French. I met so many recent Jewish immigrants from France who all said the same thing: They didn't feel safe in France and that there was no future for Jews there. They were right. Europe will soon be Judenrein.

Since the 19th century, the Zionists and the anti-Semites have shared the view that there is no future for Poles, Chinese, Canadians, Argentinians, French, ... who happen to be of the Jewish religion - they must leave.

Welcome to that prestigious club, Mr.Tea.

Jews survived the Nazi genocide and are still not stupid and desperate enough to emigrate to Israel. French Jews won't either. Except those trying to make some kind of macabre political point. Like whoever arranged for the remains of the three children to be buried in Jerusalem.

 

Unionist

Ken Burch wrote:

Are you ok, Unionist? Your post just stopped in the middle of a sentence.

Editing problem, Ken. My whole people just stopped in the middle of a sentence - but ultimately, they survived. I'm not sure if we'll survive the Netanyahus and their fanatical allies of other religions, though.

Mr.Tea

Unionist wrote:

Jews survived the Nazi genocide and are still not stupid and desperate enough to emigrate to Israel. French Jews won't either. Except those trying to make some kind of macabre political point. Like whoever arranged for the remains of the three children to be buried in Jerusalem.

SOME Jews survived the Nazis. 6 million didn't. Hundreds of Jews survived the school shooting this week. 4 didn't. I'd rather not take my chances in a place where I have to hope that I won't be one of the 4 or one of the 6 million.

And, yes, plenty of French Jews (mainly the younger ones) ARE getting the hell out of France. Some to Israel, some to Canada, some to otehr countries. These countries will be richer for their presence and France will be poorer for their absence.

And the children and their father were buried in Israel because that's where they lived.The children were Israeli citizens. The father (a rabbi) was spending some time in France as part of a teaching program.

Slumberjack

Do spare for us a little context in future would you? - should any of that occur to you.  Especially where it concerns the safety of French citizens who feel they must flee to the safety of a third state, in order to avail themselves of a way of life maintained by the brutal, liberal and daily application of every manner of repression.

Mr.Tea

Canada?

Caissa

French security forces have arrested a man suspected of a spate of killings in Toulouse, reports say.

BFM TV reported that the suspect, named earlier as Mohammed Merah, 23, a Frenchman of Algerian origin, was detained inside a block of flats that had been under siege all morning.

Officials have not confirmed the arrest and it is unclear how he was detained.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17462604#

Slumberjack

Mr.Tea wrote:
....Some to Israel, some to Canada, some to otehr countries. These countries will be richer for their presence

That certainly wouldn't be my sense for those who share in the vision of a greater Israel being superimposed over the bodies of the Palestinians who live there. We have enough of this sort already to contend with, as if the wretched assortment of opportunistic political lackeys and enablers weren't enough.

Slumberjack

Mr.Tea wrote:
Canada?

They are like twin nations in that regard, aren't they?

Hoodeet

I'm with Unionist on this one.

Israeli policies --even the very foundation of the Zionist state, which the hardliners consider inmutable, and which all too many post-war Jews around the world continue to accept and support because they/we were pretty much brainwashed from infancy that Israel is the sacred fatherland (notice I didn't say motherland)-- are undoubtedly one motive for attacks against Jewish institutions outside Israel.  (And yes, anticipating Mr. Tea's and others' arguments, classic antisemites HAVE been piggybacking on pro-Palestinian sentiment to continue operating, this time under the guise of anti-Zionism.)  

When such attacks take place, Israelis and the agents of Zionism abroad (those who actively promote Aliyah, Jews moving to Israel and taking Israeli citizenship, which is conferred pretty much automatically) tell us that Jews can only be safe in Israel, the Jewish fortress state.   But they still need Jews and allies around the world to stay and work --preferably in influential positions-- to promote support of Israel and support for its policies.  Israel and Zionism would be really up a creek if every Jew, including every executive in AIPAC, the CJC etc. picked up stakes and moved to Israel.

Dual citizenship has been really useful, since in addition to allowing a citizen of any country to hold Israeli citizenship it does not preclude him or her from serving in the IDF or any other Israeli government institution, presumably even Mossad.  (Of course that probably works with other countries, too.  But how many government officials in the UK, France, Canada, the US etc. hold dual citizenship, legally, with, say, Iran, Pakistan,North Korea, China, ...hell, even Malta or Myanmar or Mali?).   I'm thinking aloud, so forgive any bizarre notions...

Caissa

This thread drift is lovely but might it be possible to start a thread on Enlightenment integrationist  and Zionist concepts of Judaism to pursue this discussion?

Hoodeet

Yes, Québec, where socialism gained a foothold a generation ago, and the ROC where it's still struggling to justify itself.

Caissa

France's interior minister has denied reports that security forces have arrested the main suspect in the recent spate of shootings around Toulouse.

Claude Gueant said the arrest had not yet taken place.

BFM TV had reported that the suspect, named earlier as Mohammed Merah, 23, a Frenchman of Algerian origin, was detained inside a block of flats that has been under siege all morning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17462604

Mr.Tea

BBC is the best news source for this at the moment.

DaveW

Mr.Tea wrote:

Unionist wrote:

Jews survived the Nazi genocide and are still not stupid and desperate enough to emigrate to Israel. French Jews won't either. ....

...

And, yes, plenty of French Jews (mainly the younger ones) ARE getting the hell out of France. Some to Israel, some to Canada, some to otehr countries. These countries will be richer for their presence and France will be poorer for their absence.

you will need more demographic info to justify such a broad assertion; by most measures, France's Jewish population is large and thriving...

 from the Jewish Virtual Library:

France became a haven for postwar refugees and within 25 years its Jewish population tripled. In 1945, 180,000 Jews were living in France, and, by 1951, the population reached 250,000. An influx of North African Jews immigrated to France in the 1950's due to the decline of the French empire. Subsequent waves of immigration followed the Six-Day War, when another 16,000 Moroccan and Tunisian Jews settled in France. Hence, by 1968, Sephardic Jews were the majority in France. These new immigrants were already culturally French and needed little time to adjust to French society.

Today more than 600,000 Jews live in France, 375,000 live in Paris. There are 230 Jewish communities, including Paris, Marseilles (70,000), Lyons (25,000), Toulouse, Nice and Strasbourg.

 

Mr.Tea

Yes, postwar the Jewish population of France grew. I'm not talking about 1945. I'm talking about today. I've met many French Jews (both in Israel and in Canada) who have left. All for the same reasons. They don't feel safe and they don't see a future for themselves and their family in France. There's a poll that shows that a quarter of French Jews want to leave.

Some excerpts:According to the poll, 26 percent of those surveyed said they have considered emigrating due to worsening French anti-Semitism.

Of them, 13 percent are "seriously" considering leaving, according to Washington pollster Stan Greenberg, who led the surveys and focus groups.

The desire to leave France that it found coincides with a big jump in French Jewish perceptions of anti-Semitism, and in bitter experience.

Some 82 percent of respondents say anti-Semitism is a serious problem in France and 78 percent say it has deepened in the past few years.

Moreover, 38 percent of respondents say they personally have been the targets of anti-Semitic incidents, and 58 percent say they know friends or relatives who have been singled out.

Anti-Semitism has grown so virulent in France that many observant Jews disguise the fact that they wear yarmulkes, she said.

In fact, religious and Sephardic Jews are more likely to have experienced anti-Semitism, and thus more likely to want to leave.

"As relatively recent immigrants, these Jews are less integrated into French society and have less confidence in French institutions than secular and Ashkenazi Jews," Greenberg said in a memo summarizing his findings.

 

Unionist

This is like the B'nai B'rith garbage propaganda that says there were 27,815,935,841.1 anti-semitic incidents in Canada last week.

Oh, and by the way, the entire history of Israel has been one of Jewsemigrating, and only some hapless refugees or opportunists (e.g. ex-Soviet phony Jews) or right-wing fanatical settler types from the U.S. entering. The only refugees not allowed to enter are Palestinians. There is no such thing as ordinary Jews leaving France or Canada or the U.S. or the U.K. or anywhere for Israel - at least, the net balance is always to Israel's detriment.

Even Jews who identify as Zionists aren't stupid enough to actually move there.

 

 

Mr.Tea

Unionist wrote:

This is like the B'nai B'rith garbage propaganda that says there were 27,815,935,841.1 anti-semitic incidents in Canada last week.

It's not like that at all, actually. This is not a report of "incidents". This is an opinion survey of French Jews and how they feel. Presumably they've got a better sense of what it's like to be a Jew in France than you or I do.

I should add that I don't mean to single out France. A good portion of Europe (the Netherlands, Sweden) are also becoming increasingly inhospitable to Jews and seeing younger Jews leave those coutries as well.

DaveW

yeah yeah, and 30 per cent of Canadians are always "considering" a move to the States, esp. around mid-February cold blasts and budget/tax times, and yet Canada just keeps growing demographically;

I repeat: the Jewish population of France is large and stable

 

Hoodeet

DaveW wrote:

yeah yeah, and 30 per cent of Canadians are always "considering" a move to the States, esp. around mid-February cold blasts and budget/tax times, and yet Canada just keeps growing demographically;

I repeat: the Jewish population of France is large and stable

 

Hoodeet (JW)

I think DaveW's arguments are sounding unreasonable.   It's true that native antisemitism exists in France, always has, now fed by neo-Nazis and militant Islamists.  Many French Jews might feel they would like to leave but can't, or prefer not to jump from the frying pan into the mid-East fire...

And still I agree with Dave that many French Jews (the non-orthodox especially) are willing and even eager to stay and fight for a France laïque.

DaveW

indeed, in many large French institutions -- the daily press, Socialist party, academe, business -- French Jews ARE the Establishment, or at least an integral part of it...

so there is no rush to the exits, it is a large middle-class community, despite the noise that gets headlines after awful events like this

 

 

NDPP

EU's Baroness Ashton Under Fire For Toulouse Murder Comments

http://thejc.com/news/world-news/65383/eus-baroness-ashton-under-fire-to...

"The European Union's High Representative has been accused of comparing the killing of three children and a rabbi in a shooting attack in France to the sitution in Gaza...

'What we see what is happening in Gaza and in different parts of the world - we remember young people and children who lose their lives..'

Her comments, made at the 'Palestine Refugees in the Changing Middle East' conference in Brussels were criticized in Israel and the Jewish community as unacceptable.

'There is absolutely no equivalence between the situation in Gaza from which Israel withdrew in the hopes of peace, and the cold and callous murder of Rabbi Jonathan Sandler and the three children,' said Stefan Kerner, director of public affairs for the Zionist Federation.'

'Even when read in context, Ashton's words are beyond unacceptable,' said Oliver Worth the British chairman of the World Union of Jewish Students. He said they were 'truly outrageous and revolting', and called for her to resign because she had 'lost all credibility'.

Fidel

This wasn't just any crazed lone gunman. It's alleged that Mohamed Merah is Al-Qa'eda. And the question asked in all criminal investigations except in cases of false flag operations is, who benefits?

Mr.Tea

Nobody benefits from this.

Unionist

I think DaveW is simply stating the well-known truth here, Hoodeet.

 

Fidel

Apparently Mohamed Merah is no stranger to French intel.

Toulouse shooting: al-Qaeda links an election gift for Marine Le Pen

And the right wing Sarkozy now has an opportunity to appear to be a strong leader in a time of crisis. Sarkozy has suspended the election campaign.

What excellent timing it is for the political right in France and campaigning for stricter immigration policies.

This has all the characteristics of a false flag. Is team Gladio responsible? We know that the west created "Al-Qa'eda" as well as the Taliban. And this is typical of how the ultra right implements the strategy of tension. Democracy is the right's most hated institution long time.

NDPP

"Apparently the suspect wants to damage the cause of the Palestinians, by associating himself with the Palestinians. [Ashton assists]. Apparently, the shooter wants to help Sarkozy with the upcoming election. The recent terrorist shootings in France by a lone gunman, have targeted people who were black, Moslem, North African and Jewish.."

Ozar Hatarah School Attack - Inside Job?

http://aangirfan.blogspot.ca/2012/03/ozar-hatorah-school-attack-inside-j...

 

French Terror Attack: All the Hallmarks of an Intelligence Psy-Op/False-Flag  -  by Kurt Nimmo

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=29899

"Mohamed Merah, the suspect in the killing of seven people outside a Jewish school in Toulouse France, fits the pattern of an al-Qaeda intelligence asset. According to the BBC, he was on the radar of French authorities because of visits he made to Afghanistan and the 'militant stronghold' of Waziristan in Pakistan.

More specifically, Merah was handled by France's DCRI Intelligence services 'for years' according to Claude Gueant, the interior minister.

It has provided Nicolas Sarkozy with a pretext to put the southern part of the nation on high alert and cancel the campaigns of presidential contenders. Sarkozy stands to benefit from the terror attacks and play the role of a strong leader during a national crisis.."

NDPP

Toulouse Hunt: AK-Armed 'Scooter-Shooter' Trapped in House

http://rt.com/news/toulouse-shooting-police-suspect-076/

"The Toulouse gunman suspected of murdering seven people, including three children of a Jewish school, remains barricaded in his house. He admits to the killings and has agreed to surrender 'late this evening', according to the French prosecutor.."

Toulouse Siege Live (and vid)

http://rt.com/on-air/toulouse-siege-live-coverage

France 24 Blog: Besieged Gunman 'Confesses' to Killings

http://www.france24.com/en/20120321-liveblog-france-toulouse-police-surr...

"Follow events as they unfold on our live blog.."

Fidel

They'll send this Qa'eda gunman to Guantanamo or back to Algiers for job re-training where they will prolly release him after a short while if he promises to go to Turkey-Syria or Chechnya and take up jihad full-time.  And I think there's a new TV show called Al-CIA'duh's Got Talent, so his prospects look good.

NDPP

France 24 reports assault on supect's apartment has begun

Fidel

I'll bet all of France is talking about it and how they need better security and stricter immigration rules. That and the tight election race.

Pages

Topic locked