The National Post and Canadian Jewish Congress attack Independent Jewish Voices (again)

aka Mycroft
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The Canadian Jewish Congress and National Post are teaming up yet again in an attempt to isoloate and marginalize Independent Jewish Voices. This time there is an all out attack on the United Church of Canada for daring to have relations with the dissident Jewish group.

United Church, Jewish group try to reconcile; At ‘breaking point'

 


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sandstone
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it's rich for an independent jewish group, called jewish voices being accused of "“vile, anti-Zionist” rhetoric,

but then perhaps their is a difference between being jewish and being zionist.. more folks need to be made aware of the distinction... much of this specific issue seems to revolve around anyone considering the idea of boycotting israel.... of course it is helpful to know that the national post ownership appear to have some close horse in this race as well, although the paper is techically for sale at present..

learning new catchphrases all the time... here is one from the link that i don't see very often..

"anti-Zionist conspiracy theorist"

that is a 2 for 1, lol....

thanks for the article and pointing this out aka mycroft...


aka Mycroft
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Last week, the National Post published a screed yet again attacking Independent Jewish Voices and its former chair, Diana Ralph. Several years ago, prior to joining Independent Jewish Voices, Ralph wrote a chapter for a book called Hidden History of 9-11 in which her thesis was that the Bush Administration was using 9-11 as a pretext for an imperialist adventure in the Middle East and for Islamophobic measures at home.

Unfortunately, Ralph also made a few statements in passing that seemed to lend credibility to 9-11 conspiracy theories. The Post and the CJC have deliberately overstated this element of her writings in order to imply that Ralph herself is a conspiracy theorist and then tar Independent Jewish Voices by association despite the fact that IJV has never issued a single statement on 9-11 and despite the fact that an IJV spokesperson clearly told the Post that "The positions of Diana Ralph stated in those articles do not represent the positions of the IJV."

By challenging the monopoly uncritically Zionist groups such as the Canadian Jewish Congress and B'nai Brith Canada have claimed over Jewish opinion in this country IJV has undermined both the myth that Canadian Jews are of one voice when it comes to Israel and challenged the slur that criticism of Israel is tantamount to anti-Semitism. As a result, the CJC in particular has pulled out the stops in its attempt to isolate, vilify and marginalize IJV and harass any organization, such as the United Church of Canada, that has dealings with the organization.

The National Post, accordingly, when referring to IJV makes sure to also refer to it as having been "recently chaired by 9/11 conspiracy theorist Diana Ralph." The Post also takes issue with the fact that as past-co-chair, Ralph remains on IJV's executive.

There is a searing double standard here. The co-president of the Canadian Jewish Congress from 2007 to 2009 was a man named Reuven Bulka. He remains a member of the CJC's Board of Directors as "immediate past president." Now, prior to becoming co-president of the CJC, Bulka wrote a book called One Man, One Woman, One Lifetime in which he described homosexuality as "abnormal" and called on lesbian and gay Jews to seek "the help of mental health professionals and spiritual advisors". Not only that but Bulka served for years on the "scientific advisory committee" of a group called the National Association for the Research and Therapy of Homosexuality which views homosexuality as a "psychological condition" and "developmental disorder" and offers "conversion therapy" which it claims will "cure" homosexuality. Despite Bulka's clear and longstanding association with a crackpot, pseudoscientific homophobic organization the good people of the National Post never follow references to the Canadian Jewish Congress with a statement such as "recently led by homophobic pseudoscience advocate Reuven Bulka" or write anything that implies that the CJC shares Bulka's views. Of course, the reason for the Post's inconsistent treatment of two Jewish groups has everything with ideology and nothing to do with journalistic ethics. Jonathan Kay has gone to great lengths sifting through the writings of IJV's former leader in hopes of finding something he can trump up into scandal but he's never given Rabbi Bulka's writings a second glance. Why?


skdadl
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Quote:
“We get that the United Church is a decentralized body, but it is incumbent on the national leadership to issue guidance.”

 

And Mr Farber, apparently, feels it is incumbent upon him to issue guidance to an organization that is formed of presbyteries what is incumbent upon them.

 

Head ... desk ... Bernie Farber owes me a keyboard. 

 

Wow. Where does one get that sense of entitlement?


sandstone
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yes indeed skdadl....


skdadl
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Y'know something? I might start going to church again. This is starting to make me angry enough to go to church again.

 

I'm a United Churcher. The UC needs me. *cue the William Tell overture*


Frustrated Mess
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skdadl wrote:

 

Wow. Where does one get that sense of entitlement?

From an unchecked ideological racism.


Unionist
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As it becomes increasingly harder for the Harperites and the Farberites and their ilk to defend Israel, they will resort to the most desperate forms of character assassination. A Jew who wants to stand up for human rights and decency had better not have a past, or these sharks will tear them to pieces. That's the unfortunate lesson of this episode. Let's hope the United Church doesn't easily fold in the face of blackmail.

By the way, aka M, I'm not convinced that dredging up Bulka's sins is the right response here. Of course it shows their hypocrisy. But doesn't it also tend to legitimize this method of avoiding the issues?


Hoodeet
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Unionist wrote:

 

By the way, aka M, I'm not convinced that dredging up Bulka's sins is the right response here. Of course it shows their hypocrisy. But doesn't it also tend to legitimize this method of avoiding the issues?

Hoodeet (JW)

 

Unless there is evidence that Mr. Bulka has changed his mind about homosexuality, what he has published should be a valid cause for concern.  It's not "dragging up someone's sins" to warn the public about the person's ideas or at least to divulge his or her positions on other political issues, which may confirm a general attitude.  If a reactionary wants to "drag up" my sin of having published a book that favourable (or at least uncritical) toward Latin American revolution 35 years ago, expressing ideas which I have never renounced in subsequent publications, then it's their prerrogative to do so if they want to use it to caution the public about how dangerous I can be. (Ha. Ha. Armchair activist that I 've always been.)  CSIS and other security agencies certainly keep track secretly of one's sins, old and new, so why can't the public be informed?


Star Spangled C...
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Do you think every organization that opposes zionism and supports the creation of a Palestinian state is progressive on issues concerning gay rights? Don't expect Hamas to come out for same sex marriage anytime soon. Does that discredit Palestinian supporters when it comes to discussing the situations in the Middle East? Do the two have anything to do with each other? No? Then why take an Orthodox rabbi's beliefs regarding homosexuality and try to use them to discredit and organziation's views on foreign policy?


Unionist
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So, aka M, you see how Bulka's sins get used by Zionists to create diversions? It doesn't take them two seconds before they get with the "look over there!!!" program.

IJV should keep their focus on putting forward progressive positions on behalf of Jews, and having utter contempt for individual attacks and character assassination. Otherwise, you're on a playing field where BB and CJC and CPC are past masters and reigning champions.

 


Prophit
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It seems that AKAMycroft has a bit of a thing about Rabbi Bulka. He posted about this back in the summer. I found this with just a little digging

http://www.rabble.ca/comment/1028004/Seems-Rabbi-Bulka-sat

As well, Isn't Rabbi Bulka an orthodox Rabbi? Orthodox Judaism still sadly have biblical issues here. Yet while Bulka was co-President of CJC, the Congress marched in two gay pride parades and its CEO spoke at a Kulanu (Jewish LGBT group) event honouring the memory of those murdered at a Gay and Lesbian community centre in Tel Aviv.

Lots of contradictions here seems to me.


oldgoat
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Yup...looks like unionist was right.


aka Mycroft
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Prophit wrote:

It seems that AKAMycroft has a bit of a thing about Rabbi Bulka. He posted about this back in the summer. I found this with just a little digging

http://www.rabble.ca/comment/1028004/Seems-Rabbi-Bulka-sat

As well, Isn't Rabbi Bulka an orthodox Rabbi? Orthodox Judaism still sadly have biblical issues here. Yet while Bulka was co-President of CJC, the Congress marched in two gay pride parades and its CEO spoke at a Kulanu (Jewish LGBT group) event honouring the memory of those murdered at a Gay and Lesbian community centre in Tel Aviv.

Lots of contradictions here seems to me.

I first came across Bulka's ridiculous views when I was doing some digging around the time of CJC's attack on QuAIA last June. I was reminded of it last week as a result of the National Post and CJC's attack on IJV and Diana Ralph. If that means I have a "thing" for Rabbi Bulka, so be it. As for CJC marching in two gay pride parades I think you mean they've marched in two gay pride parades since the end of Bulka's term (this year in Toronto and Montreal). A number of people commented when Bernie Farber joined this year's parade that it was the first time anyone could recall the CJC in a pride parade. Indeed, it was interesting that Farber did not march in Pride either year that Bulka was co-president and only did so after his term had expired.

I find it interesting that Kulanu had much to say about QuAIA but nothing to say about Bulka's abhorrent views while he was president. Indeed, you would have thought someone in CJC would have objected to a homophobe holding the group's highest office.

Quote:
Isn't Rabbi Bulka an orthodox Rabbi?

He's also a trained psychotherapist which makes his indulgence in pseudoscientific "cures" for homosexuality at best, scary, at worst, professional misconduct. I wonder how many lives he's destroyed with his hokum?


Michelle
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What is a "trained psychotherapist"?


Unionist
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They're only moderately more dangerous than the untrained variety.


remind
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It means he has a psychology degree, or is a certified/registered counsellor

 

Profit wrote:
Lots of contradictions here seems to me.

 

... guess supporters of the CJC and BBC, have advanced knowlege of contradictions, so are qualified to pronounce here that they think they perceive such..


Unionist
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Beautiful letter - by an Anglican priest - staunchly defending what is best in the Jewish people:

Quote:

I was honoured to be invited to introduce Jewish theologian Dr. Marc Ellis at his Parliament Hill lecture before an audience of MPs, ambassadors, bishops and other dignitaries. That Bernie Farber labels him a vicious anti-Zionist in his effort to manipulate the United Church of Canada and defame Independent Jewish Voices (IJV) tells us nothing about Dr. Ellis, but much about the Canadian Jewish Congress.

As author of Practicing Exile, Dr. Ellis has eloquently proposed that the theology of The Exile is central to Judaism. In labelling IJV as a fringe group, and vile, Mr. Farber ironically places it at the centre of Judaism. At the same time, he centres the CJC in a narrative of power, proving itself not in fact a religious group, but a political group maligning Canadians in the interests of a foreign government. The CJC disqualifies itself as a legitimate dialogue partner of the churches.

Reverend Robert C. Assaly, Montreal.


al-Qa'bong
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Reverend Robert C. Assaly, eh?

Sounds like another Hamas/Hizbollah operative working under cover in this fair and democratic country.


Unionist
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I'm declaring him an Honorary Jew. Here's some more about him:

Quote:

Assaly is an Ottawa-born Canadian Arab currently engaged in doctoral studies in theology at McGill.  He chairs Canadian Friends of Sabeel, an ecumenical Christian Palestinian centre which speaks informally for the churches in Jerusalem. 

Back in 2005, Sabeel  called for morally responsible investment (MRI), which developed into lay organizations moving to boycott, disinvestment, and sanctions (BDS).  The United Church resolutions, which were not adopted, were in tune with that movement.  Archbishop Desmond Tutu addressed the 2005 Sabeel meeting by video, supporting MRI and calling Israel an Apartheid state.  He certainly should know an Apartheid state when he sees one.

Rev. Assaly served the Anglican Church in Israel and Palestine for three years.  As vicar of Gaza, he founded an Anglican church there in 1996.  Israel demolished it in 2002.

Source.


aka Mycroft
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Here's another letter:

Re: United Church, Jewish Group Try To Reconcile, Jan. 29.

Kathryn Blaze Carlson reports on the attempt by the Canadian Jewish Congress to blackmail the United Church into abandoning its tradition of openness and "repent" for its support of the Independent Jewish Voices of Canada. No single organization can possibly represent the opinions of an entire community, whether Jewish, Greek or Arab. The establishment of the Independent Jewish Voices of Canada, inspired by a similar group in Britain, has brought diversity to the monolithic image of Canadian Jewry promoted by the Canadian Jewish Congress.

This is particularly grievous since the Congress creates a dangerous false impression, namely that Canadian Jews are united behind Israel and its military actions, even though many Jews have qualified these actions as crimes of war. It is this kind of misrepresentation that foments anti-Jewish sentiment in our country that the Independent Jewish Voices is trying to contest. The United Church has no reason to be ashamed of its help to the then-fledging organization.

It is the Canadian Jewish Congress that should be ashamed of its unconditional support for Israel, "my country right or wrong," and of its self-righteous arrogance in pressuring the United Church.

Yakov M. Rabkin, professor of History, University of Montreal.


skdadl
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Quote:
NEWS ADVISORY

For Immediate Release - February 1st, 2010



Christian, Jewish, Muslim Faith and Cultural Groups Call News Conference re:

Harper Government's Dismal Record on Human Rights for Palestinians

and the Growing Canadian Movement to Uphold those Rights



On Wednesday, February 3rd, 2010 at 2 pm at the Religious Society of Friends, 60 Lowther Ave., a number of Canadian regional and national faith and cultural organizations will hold a news conference to:

• denounce recent decisions of the Harper Government regarding human rights for the Palestinian people;

• outline the dangers that such ideological and politically motivated decisions pose to democracy, Canadian values and the upholding of international law;

• witness to the growing Canadian multi-faith and cross-cultural solidarity being built regarding the seeking of human rights for Palestinian people and a just peace for all who live in the land our faith groups call holy.



Participating and making statements in the news conference will be:

• Brian McIntosh, Holy Land Awareness and Action Task Group, South West

Presbytery of the United Church of Canada;

• Judy Deutsch, Toronto Chapter of Independent Jewish Voices (IJV);

• Khaled Mouammar, President of the Canadian Arab Federation (CAF);

• Wahida Valiante, President of the Canadian Islamic Congress (CIC);

• Lyn Adamson, Toronto Quaker community.

Other as yet unconfirmed participants may also attend.



The news conference will consist of brief statements from participating spokespeople, and the allotment of time for media questions. A combined news release and copies of individual statements will be available.



In addition other prominent Canadians, as yet unconfirmed, may be in attendance to offer support and solidarity to the presenters and to answer questions, should the media present have any, upon completion of the news conference.



Ample parking is available off Bedford Rd., north of Lowther on the west side.



For information, contact:

Brian McIntosh

416-817-2606 Home/Cell

416-621-1710 Work

. 30 .


Unionist
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I'm guessing, from the 416 area code, that the above is taking place at the centre of the universe?

And thanks for linking to the letter, Mycroft. Why do you think the NP is printing these replies? A crise de conscience? Is this what CCAA protection does?

 


skdadl
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Sorry. Yes: Lowther Avenue is in Toronto.

 

*skdadl trudges away, suitably ashamed*


Martha B
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aka Mycroft wrote:
Here's another letter: Re: United Church, Jewish Group Try To Reconcile, Jan. 29. Kathryn Blaze Carlson reports on the attempt by the Canadian Jewish Congress to blackmail the United Church into abandoning its tradition of openness and "repent" for its support of the Independent Jewish Voices of Canada. No single organization can possibly represent the opinions of an entire community, whether Jewish, Greek or Arab. The establishment of the Independent Jewish Voices of Canada, inspired by a similar group in Britain, has brought diversity to the monolithic image of Canadian Jewry promoted by the Canadian Jewish Congress. This is particularly grievous since the Congress creates a dangerous false impression, namely that Canadian Jews are united behind Israel and its military actions, even though many Jews have qualified these actions as crimes of war. It is this kind of misrepresentation that foments anti-Jewish sentiment in our country that the Independent Jewish Voices is trying to contest. The United Church has no reason to be ashamed of its help to the then-fledging organization. It is the Canadian Jewish Congress that should be ashamed of its unconditional support for Israel, "my country right or wrong," and of its self-righteous arrogance in pressuring the United Church. Yakov M. Rabkin, professor of History, University of Montreal.

I know Professor Rabkin having had some contact with him in Montreal. Don't you think he should have indicated that he is a member of the "Independent Jewish Voices"?


Gus Williams
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I found a good online discussion of the work CJC has done regarding the LGBT community here at the NOW site.

http://www.nowtoronto.com/daily/story.cfm?content=170150

 

Both sides well represented...even Farber seems to have posted. In the end I think it tilts more positively towards CJC but that's just my view


aka Mycroft
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Martha B wrote:

I know Professor Rabkin having had some contact with him in Montreal. Don't you think he should have indicated that he is a member of the "Independent Jewish Voices"?

I hardly ever see letter writers identify their organizational affiliation unless they are actually authorized to speak on behalf of the organization. I sign myself as being with this or that organization when I'm writing in an official capacity and do not do so when I'm just speaking for myself and while there may be an expectation that an officer or employee of an organization identify themselves as such when writing a letter to the editor about their organization I don't think there's any such expectation for rank and file members. If there were then then the complexion of every letters to the editor page would be quite different. I frequently see letters about Canadian politics by people I know to be a member of this NDP riding association or that Liberal or Tory riding association who do not declare their party membership in their correspondence (unless they are actually members of a party executive - and even then...)

Or are you suggesting that rank and file or even mid-level members of CJC, Bnai Brith etc who write to newspapers always identify themselves as such? I'm pretty sure we can find examples of that not being the case without much trouble.

Anyway, if posters who were affiliated or even employed by the CJC identified themselves as such when they post to babble then you might have a point.  (Not suggesting that you are - just that others have been)


aka Mycroft
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Gus Williams wrote:

I found a good online discussion of the work CJC has done regarding the LGBT community here at the NOW site.

http://www.nowtoronto.com/daily/story.cfm?content=170150

 

Both sides well represented...even Farber seems to have posted. In the end I think it tilts more positively towards CJC but that's just my view

Farber was taken to task for pandering by wearing a "Nobody knows I'm gay" t-shirt when not only is he not gay but hadn't been seen at a Pride parade until the Palestinian issue came up. Had Farber marched at Pride when Reuven Bulka was co-president it would have been more impressive. (Or are you suggesting that perhaps he did and wore a "Nobody tell Rabbi Bulka I'm here" t-shirt?)


Michelle
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remind wrote:

It means he has a psychology degree, or is a certified/registered counsellor

Ain't no such thing as a "certified/registered counsellor" as far as I know.  That was the point I'm making.  Anyone can call themselves a "psychotherapist" or a "counsellor".  You don't have to have any qualifications whatsoever to call yourself those things.  It's "psychiatrist" and "psychologist" and "doctor" that you have to be certified and registered to call yourself.  Might differ from province to province, though, I don't know.


aka Mycroft
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I don't know if Bulka calls himself a "trained psychotherapist". I know he's been described as a psychotherapist and I believe he has a PhD in psychology and writes books on psychology, psychotherapy etc.


remind
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Most certainly there are registered and certified counsellors Michelle, who do not have a degree, even in Ontario, just do a search engine search, to see for yourself.


Michelle
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Registered and certified by whom?


aka Mycroft
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Psychiatrists are regulated but, until recently, in Ontario anyone could call themselves a "psychotherapist" without necessarily having any credentials.

This changed in 2007 with the passage of the Psychotherapy Act and the creation of the College of Psychotherapists and Registered Mental Health Therapists of Ontario. I believe we are still in the transitional stage were regulation hasn't been fully implemented.


Caissa
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http://www.ccpa-accp.ca/

 

The Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association (CCPA) is a national and bilingual organization dedicated to the enhancement of the counselling profession in Canada.


Star Spangled C...
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According to the website of Rabbi Bulka's synagogue:

"He received his Semicha (Rabbinic ordination) from the Rabbi Yaakov Yoseph Rabbinical Seminary, New York, in 1965 and his Ph.D. (concentration in the Logotherapy of Viktor Frankl) from the University of Ottawa in 1971"


Unionist
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Ok, now let's talk about 9/11, and let the CJC and the NP totally off the hook.

Why would anyone care whether the CJC harbours a homophobe, or whether IJV harbours a conspiracy theorist? Only if they're overly interested in avoiding the real issues, or if they're overly defensive when a McCarthyite attack is launched. This thread is a serious example of how not to respond to a vicious and dirty attack.

 


Jaku
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aka Mycroft wrote:

Gus Williams wrote:

I found a good online discussion of the work CJC has done regarding the LGBT community here at the NOW site.

http://www.nowtoronto.com/daily/story.cfm?content=170150

 

Both sides well represented...even Farber seems to have posted. In the end I think it tilts more positively towards CJC but that's just my view

Farber was taken to task for pandering by wearing a "Nobody knows I'm gay" t-shirt when not only is he not gay but hadn't been seen at a Pride parade until the Palestinian issue came up. Had Farber marched at Pride when Reuven Bulka was co-president it would have been more impressive. (Or are you suggesting that perhaps he did and wore a "Nobody tell Rabbi Bulka I'm here" t-shirt?)

akamycroft, I was at the Gay Pride parade marching with kulanau, The Jewish LGBT group, and frankl;y I'm pretty tired of this ongoing smear of my kulanu friends and Farber.

We were selling that t-shirt to gays and straights as a momey maker. Farber and about 75 others bought the shirt and wore it in solidarity with their LGBT brothers and sisters. No one but you and a few others then decided to use this against him and us.

Second, Farber marched in the gay pride parade in 08 as well. He wore a CJC hat and t-shirt. Enough with this already!!


Michelle
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Sorry for my part in the thread drift, Unionist.  But for those of us who have been around this merry-go-round with the CJC cavalry on babble for years on end, we're so used to the deflection that it gets routine.  Doesn't mean we haven't noticed the substantial issue in the thread, and it doesn't mean we don't recognize attempts to sidetrack it.  But you're right, we shouldn't play along.  Mea culpa.


skdadl
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Unionist wrote:

Ok, now let's talk about 9/11, and let the CJC and the NP totally off the hook.

Why would anyone care whether the CJC harbours a homophobe, or whether IJV harbours a conspiracy theorist? Only if they're overly interested in avoiding the real issues, or if they're overly defensive when a McCarthyite attack is launched. This thread is a serious example of how not to respond to a vicious and dirty attack.

 

I'm curious about the way the McCarthyite attack has ramped up fairly steeply just over the last year, even less than that. Am I wrong to sense that it has? Is that just in Canada, where there is a cabal within the government that actually has some power to do institutional damage and is intent on using it (the Kenney party)? Is it in reaction to the Goldstone report? Because people are saying and doing some extreme things, things with consequences.


aka Mycroft
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Jaku wrote:

akamycroft, I was at the Gay Pride parade marching with kulanau, The Jewish LGBT group, and frankl;y I'm pretty tired of this ongoing smear of my kulanu friends and Farber.

We were selling that t-shirt to gays and straights as a momey maker. Farber and about 75 others bought the shirt and wore it in solidarity with their LGBT brothers and sisters. No one but you and a few others then decided to use this against him and us.

Second, Farber marched in the gay pride parade in 08 as well. He wore a CJC hat and t-shirt. Enough with this already!!

Jaku, what actions did kulanu take in response to CJC electing an advocate and practiioner of "conversion therapy" as its co-president? Any protests? Press release perhaps? Op-ed in the Canadian Jewish News? Demand that Bulka repudiate his former position? Anything to actually advance the cause of LGBT rights with the organization that is the self-styled representatives of the Jewish people?


aka Mycroft
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skdadl wrote:

I'm curious about the way the McCarthyite attack has ramped up fairly steeply just over the last year, even less than that. Am I wrong to sense that it has? Is that just in Canada, where there is a cabal within the government that actually has some power to do institutional damage and is intent on using it (the Kenney party)? Is it in reaction to the Goldstone report? Because people are saying and doing some extreme things, things with consequences.

For the first year or so of IJV's existence the CJC tried to ignore it. That didn't work so they've moved on to a campaign of vilification and attempted isoloation. One should ask why the CJC is so obsessed with IJV that they are making relations between IJV and UCC a major focus of their own discussions with UCC.

Goldstone is certainly part of it and there is, similarly, an international campaign of vilification aimed at the South African jurist and self-described Zionist. Related is the "new antisemitism" campaign which has recently been revived and attempts to smear virtually all criticism of Israel as anti-Semitic.

In regards to Goldstone, See for example this article from Ha'aretz:

Dershowitz: Goldstone is a traitor to the Jewish people

Quote:
Prominent political commentator Professor Alan Dershowitz slammed jurist Richard Goldstone, the architect of a UN report which accuses Israel of Gaza war crimes, saying he is a traitor to the Jewish people, Army Radio reported Sunday.

Dershowitz and Goldstone have been colleagues and close friends for many years before the UN Gaza probe, but once Goldstone published his report the ties between the two were severed. "The Goldstone report is a defamation written by an evil, evil man," Dershowitz said.

In an interview with Army Radio, Dershowitz said he is appalled by the report and can't fathom how it could have been written by a Jew. He said it is as if a Jew would have written the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and that the jurist is using the fact that his last name is 'Goldstone' to substantiate the report's defamation against the Jewish people.

Quote:
Former minister and Meretz chairwoman Shulamit Aloni responded to Dershowitz's comments, saying that Goldstone is far from a traitor. "Dershowitz's statements border on hate. Goldstone is a Zionist Jew who was simply doing his job," Aloni told Army Radio.

Aloni further went on to say that Dershowitz is a despicable man who opposes the left and supports the settlers. "His opinion doesn't count in my eyes, and the way he speaks of Goldstone is disgraceful," Aloni said.

"The Goldstone report isn't entirely accurate, though we cannot ignore the fact that we did violate international law - the IDF used phosphorus and bombed schools and hospitals," said Aloni.

 

 


aka Mycroft
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Meanwhile, despite the throroughgoing thrashing Goldstone has received, the government of Israel has been forced to admit backhandedly that he is on to something.

Israel reprimands top officers over UN compound strike

Quote:
Buried in paragraph 108 of the Israeli report to the UN is the key fact of the document. Two senior officers were reprimanded for failing to follow their own rules of engagement.

This is an explosive admission, especially as this is about an incident involving white phosphorus and Israel had always maintained that this was not misused in Gaza.

This is the first time that Israel has acknowledged, at least in part, allegations that civilians were jeopardised by the misuse of artillery at the main UN warehouse in Gaza City.

The officers will not face criminal prosecution. That is something the Israeli political-military establishment is desperate to avoid. They fear it would be disastrous for morale and would damage the ability of Israel's army to fight the next war.

However, Israel's problem is that if its own investigations appear to the outside world to be a whitewash, the UN is all the more likely to order a special tribunal at The Hague.

 


aka Mycroft
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Meanwhile, despite the throroughgoing thrashing Goldstone has received, the government of Israel has been forced to admit backhandedly that he is on to something.

Israel reprimands top officers over UN compound strike

Quote:
Buried in paragraph 108 of the Israeli report to the UN is the key fact of the document. Two senior officers were reprimanded for failing to follow their own rules of engagement.

This is an explosive admission, especially as this is about an incident involving white phosphorus and Israel had always maintained that this was not misused in Gaza.

This is the first time that Israel has acknowledged, at least in part, allegations that civilians were jeopardised by the misuse of artillery at the main UN warehouse in Gaza City.

The officers will not face criminal prosecution. That is something the Israeli political-military establishment is desperate to avoid. They fear it would be disastrous for morale and would damage the ability of Israel's army to fight the next war.

However, Israel's problem is that if its own investigations appear to the outside world to be a whitewash, the UN is all the more likely to order a special tribunal at The Hague.



Gus Williams
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aka Mycroft wrote:

Jaku wrote:

akamycroft, I was at the Gay Pride parade marching with kulanau, The Jewish LGBT group, and frankl;y I'm pretty tired of this ongoing smear of my kulanu friends and Farber.

We were selling that t-shirt to gays and straights as a momey maker. Farber and about 75 others bought the shirt and wore it in solidarity with their LGBT brothers and sisters. No one but you and a few others then decided to use this against him and us.

Second, Farber marched in the gay pride parade in 08 as well. He wore a CJC hat and t-shirt. Enough with this already!!

Jaku, what actions did kulanu take in response to CJC electing an advocate and practiioner of "conversion therapy" as its co-president? Any protests? Press release perhaps? Op-ed in the Canadian Jewish News? Demand that Bulka repudiate his former position? Anything to actually advance the cause of LGBT rights with the organization that is the self-styled representatives of the Jewish people?

I see you chose not to deal with Jaku's allegations that completely explain how you have tried to misrepresent Farber and the T-shirt issue. Not surprising.


skdadl
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Ummmm ... As I recall, Farber's participation in Gay Pride last year was a little more complicated than Jaku and Gus are saying.

 

Farber had earlier attempted to instruct the Toronto Pride organizers on the very nature of their march. He had claimed that political groups do not belong in a gay pride march, which I thought was very funny, or at least it would have been if we didn't know that so many people think in his sort of categories.

 

So he asked for it, y'know? He asked for it by being bossy and presumptuous. Just as he is doing now with the UCC, an organization founded on presbyteries that are never going to take the kind of "national guidance" that he thinks they should, in his incurably patriarchal way.

 

The one good thing about neocons -- they always overreach. When they see that they have a small advantage, they jump the shark and try to take over too much too fast, and suddenly decent people start to think, omigosh, this is going too far. Bernie Farber has gone too far.


Unionist
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See, aka M, if you question Bulka and Farber on their LGBT creds, you have served a 57-course meal of diversionary bullshit upon which the defenders of the murderous Israeli regime will feast for years.

It doesn't matter if Bulka hates gays. It doesn't matter if Farber is only a recent convert to Pride parades. It doesn't matter if Diana Ralph has some bizarro notions about how little green men working for Dick Cheney toppled the Towers. It's all grist to the mill of those who want to betray the finest traditions of the Jewish people. Don't follow them down that path.

I'm saying this as someone who admires the principled and consistent work that you do.

 


skdadl
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Sorry, Unionist. I lost my temper. Bad habit. You are right.


Unionist
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skdadl wrote:

I'm curious about the way the McCarthyite attack has ramped up fairly steeply just over the last year, even less than that. Am I wrong to sense that it has?

Not sure, skdadl. I've been taking heat for my anti-Zionist politics for some 40 years now, so it's hard for me to detect the ebbs and flows. But I must say that there are hordes of Jews today - compared to back then - who have seen through the evil that Israel commits on a daily basis. That is gratifying, and it's the one thing that keeps me from following Bertell Ollman's example.


aka Mycroft
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You're right Unionist; let's focus on the essential issue here: Israel's hasbara machine has gone into superdrive in an effort to vilify any criticism from Israel as witnessed by this new attack by Dershowitz on Judge Goldstone calling him "evil" and a traitor. Groups like the CJC are doing their part by vilifying Jewish critics in Canada, in particular IJV. Where once CJC could claim to be the "parliament of Canadian Jews" today they act like thought police within the Jewish community - hunting down heretics, casting them out, and ostracising them to the extent of even attacking the United Church for daring to associate with Jewish dissidents.

Israel once claimed to be a democratic state, however, that illusion is evaporating as the state ramps up repression not only against vocal Palestinian citizens of Israel, termed "Israel Arabs" but against NGOs and even the Jewish left. According to one report I've received:

Quote:
16 of the organisations funded by the New Israel Fund testified before Goldstone or provided information to his team, and are now being attacked for this in a concerted PR campaign as "threatening Israel". The targeted organisations include the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, B'Tselem, PHR-Israel, HaMoked, Breaking the Silence, New Profile (not funded by NIF but cited as such by the campaign), Coalition of Women for Peace, Who Profits?, Gisha, Yesh Din, Adalah, and several others. A governmental discussion of the subject was held by the Israeli Political-Security cabinet this morning [Sunday]. Apparently the IDF and GSS are "collecting information" about the organisations. For more in English on the initiators of the campaign see http://imti.org.il/en/about_us.html

 

And from the Jerusalem Post article linked to above about the attacks on the Israeli Jewish left:

Quote:
A soon-to-be-released report by the Zionist student group Im Tirtzu, which accuses the New Israel Fund of direct responsibility for the UN's Goldstone Report on the IDF's Gaza offensive last winter, is "just another in a series of attempts to quash freedom of speech in the human rights and civil rights community in Israel," the NIF's CEO Daniel Sokatch told The Jerusalem Post on Monday.

According to the Im Tirtzu report, 92 percent of the Goldstone document's allegations criticizing the IDF's conduct came from 16 Israeli NGOs that received some $7.8 million from the NIF in 2008-2009 alone.

Im Tirtzu members have begun a protest campaign to coincide with the release of the report, and on Saturday night they staged a mock rally of Hamas members outside the Jerusalem home of NIF chairwoman Naomi Chazan, a former Meretz MK.

Im Tirtzu has also sparked outrage - both in Israel and the US - with a full-page ad it took out in the Post's Sunday edition that featured a caricature of Chazan with a rhinoceros horn bearing the letters "NIF" tied to her forehead.

"It's an attack on the fiber of Israeli democracy," Sokatch said of the report and the accompanying campaign. "And part of an increasing drumbeat of incredibly heavy-handed tactics being used by authorities and others to silence human rights and civil rights organizations in Israel."

He pointed to the interrogation by police in early January of Women of the Wall chairwoman Anat Hoffman, who is also director of the Reform Movement's Israel Religious Action Center (IRAC), as a recent example of such tactics.

Hoffman was questioned by police after taking part in an all-female prayer session at the Western Wall in December, and was subsequently fingerprinted before being released to go home.

"A week later, Hagai El-Ad [director of the Association for Civil Rights in Israel] was arrested while monitoring a protest in [the east Jerusalem neighborhood of] Sheikh Jarrah," Sokatch continued. "So first it was IRAC, then it was ACRI and now they're going after the NIF.

"The kinds of societies and countries that try to intimidate and quash freedom of speech are not the kinds of countries we want to emulate or that I think Israelis want to emulate," he said. "And while we're quite cognizant of the fact that people who don't have Israel's best interests in mind could use the material provided by human rights and civil rights organizations to damage Israel, the democratic identity of Israel and the values we stand for are far more important than what our enemies might do with these reports."

 


aka Mycroft
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See also this blog entry and the following delightful example of propaganda:

 

.


aka Mycroft
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Israeli left needs to wake up before it's too late

Quote:
Looking at the way the right acts makes one go green with envy and want to learn from them. Four hundred criminal cases opened against opponents of the 2005 Gaza Strip disengagement, people who threw oil, acid, garbage and stones at soldiers and police, were closed last week and their criminal record expunged. Fifty-one MKs voted in favor of the closure, nine against. That is the true map of Israeli politics (and society). Only about seven percent of the lawmakers believed that this was a worthless and dangerous decision. All the rest agreed with it, or did not bother to vote or take an interest.

Neither did anyone think to apply a similar rule to 800 protesters against Operation Cast Lead, who were arrested and charged, perhaps because they are Arabs, nor to the dozens arrested for protesting in the East Jerusalem neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah, perhaps because they are leftists. Left-wing demonstrators never acted as violently as the settlers do, but no one thinks about pardoning them. Not even a semblance of equality before the law, not even the appearance of justice for all - that is unnecessary in a place where public shame no longer exists.

This scandalous decision did not appear out of nowhere. It is the fruit of a campaign of pressure and solicitation, bullying and extortion. From now on, settlers and Israeli society will know that they can go as wild as they want: Even if someone dares charge them - another will arise who will know how to extricate them from trouble and penalty. In contrast, left-wing protesters are orphans. They have no public or parliamentary support. Protesters against disengagement and pogromists in Palestinian villages know they will be cleared, while leftist protesters are abandoned to their fate.

From now on the left will know that as long as it continues its winter (and summer) hibernation, its protesters will be thrown into jail and no one will spring them. From now on, Israel will know that its legal system discriminates between right and left - a strong, aggressive and violent right and a left deep in hibernation. That is the way it is when the leftovers of the left are busy with wages for authors, animal rights and useless organizing against Ehud Barak, with exemption from municipal taxes for synagogues and maternity leave for men. Meretz MKs do not even have time for Sheikh Jarrah. That is the way it is when the left wing of the Zionist establishment is dead.

 


Unionist
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Great article by Gideon Levy. But I think he's preaching in the desert. In the 1980s, hundreds of thousands took to the streets in Tel Aviv and elsewhere protesting against Israel's dirty war in Lebanon. Since then, it's been a downhill slide to oblivion for the so-called "left". While I feel for the valiant few that struggle on against racism, housing demolitions, the occupation, military service, war crimes, etc., there's a fundamental problem that isn't being addressed - and that problem is Israel itself. Founded on a lie and a crime, it persists by magnifying both. It cannot do otherwise. For the sake of the Jewish people, the Palestinian people, and all the people of the world, something new is needed. Otherwise, tragedy will repeat itself over and over again.


Gus Williams
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Here is the statement on CJC and IJV dfrom the United Church

http://www.united-church.ca/communications/news/general/100201b

 


Unionist
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The United Church has many trends within it. This statement is written by the arrogant and cowardly trend, which responds to blackmail by capitulation. Listen to this garbage:

Quote:
More specifically, the United Church acknowledged its long-standing and historical relationship with Canadian Jewish Congress as the place for dialogue and consultation with the Jewish community of Canada.

How dare these characters arrogate to themselves the power to decide who represents the Jewish community of Canada?

Perhaps next, they will say that the "place for dialogue and consultation" with the world Jewish community is in Israel?

Where should we go for dialogue and consultation with the Christian community of Canada? Rome? How about Christians voting on who represents them?

The United Church should stick to its own affairs if it is intellectually or morally incapable of understanding others.

 


Gus Williams
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Of course Unionist


Unionist
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This is the United Church of Giuliano and Gregersen - the leadership which has made its bed with the Zionists and which shamelessly connects Jews with Zionism, as analyzed at length in this series of threads last year:

Quote:
"The Canadian Jewish Congress has consistently argued that language that seeks to undermine the existence of the state of Israel is anti-Semitic. And we would agree with that," Rev. Gregersen said. [...]

"In 2003, the Church said that we affirm the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state. And that's a significant commitment. What is means is that we are strongly supportive of the existence of Israel for the sake of the Jewish people in the world."

With "friends" like these, the Jews need no enemies. Yet, throughout the United Church, there are progressive and democratic-minded people and activists in a variety of causes who need support to oppose scumbags like Gregersen and his ilk. The CJC and the National Post are well aware of that progressive trend within the congregations, and it scares the hell out of them.


Lord Palmerston
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aka Mycroft wrote:
For the first year or so of IJV's existence the CJC tried to ignore it. That didn't work so they've moved on to a campaign of vilification and attempted isoloation. One should ask why the CJC is so obsessed with IJV that they are making relations between IJV and UCC a major focus of their own discussions with UCC.

Goldstone is certainly part of it and there is, similarly, an international campaign of vilification aimed at the South African jurist and self-described Zionist. Related is the "new antisemitism" campaign which has recently been revived and attempts to smear virtually all criticism of Israel as anti-Semitic.

Doesn't the "New Anti-Semitism" go back to the 1970s? 

That being said, there definitely an upsurge in the hysteria in the offical Jewish community about any criticism of Israel being either treasonous and/or anti-Semitic.  I think we are seeing the beginning of a Jewish break with Zionism, slowly and surely, especially among the youth.  It's not a complete break - certainly the Goldstone Report wasn't popular among so-called "mainstream Jews" - but they're certainly very worried about it.  On the university campuses the Hillels and other Jewish student groups are usually dominated by the 10-15% of Jewish students who are fanatics.  York in particular seems to attract a lot of these people.

ETA: A related point, Jews are far less to reluctant to criticize Israel publicly than they used to be.  Certainly in the last 10 years there has been a seachange.


Ken Burch
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aka Mycroft wrote:

See also this blog entry and the following delightful example of propaganda:

 

.

I'm not sure I understand what they're doing with that graphic.  Are they saying associating with the New Israel Fund makes people turn into unicorns?


aka Mycroft
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aka Mycroft wrote:

Martha B wrote:

I know Professor Rabkin having had some contact with him in Montreal. Don't you think he should have indicated that he is a member of the "Independent Jewish Voices"?

I hardly ever see letter writers identify their organizational affiliation unless they are actually authorized to speak on behalf of the organization. I sign myself as being with this or that organization when I'm writing in an official capacity and do not do so when I'm just speaking for myself and while there may be an expectation that an officer or employee of an organization identify themselves as such when writing a letter to the editor about their organization I don't think there's any such expectation for rank and file members. If there were then then the complexion of every letters to the editor page would be quite different. I frequently see letters about Canadian politics by people I know to be a member of this NDP riding association or that Liberal or Tory riding association who do not declare their party membership in their correspondence (unless they are actually members of a party executive - and even then...)

Or are you suggesting that rank and file or even mid-level members of CJC, Bnai Brith etc who write to newspapers always identify themselves as such? I'm pretty sure we can find examples of that not being the case without much trouble.

Anyway, if posters who were affiliated or even employed by the CJC identified themselves as such when they post to babble then you might have a point.  (Not suggesting that you are - just that others have been)

And no sooner do I write the above than a letter appears in the National Post from one Marilyn Shapiro assailing Rabkin for not mentioning his "deep connection" to IJV.

Shapiro defends the CJC as "mainstream", attacks IJV and hammers home her point about Rabkin (and Assaly) saying:

Quote:

Why did both these individuals not disclose their obvious associations with these anti-Zionist groups? I guess they must be ashamed of their associations. Or do they have something else to hide?

So what's wrong with that?

Well...

...on the far left is Marilyn Shaprio. To her right are Wendy Lampert, CJC Director of Community Relations; Len Rudner, CJC Ontario Regional Director; Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty; Igor Ellyn, CJC Board of Directors; David Katz, Chair CJC Charities Committee. The picture is from a reception the CJC held at Queen's Park last year. Why was Shapiro in that picture? It could be because she was the CJC's delegate to the most recent World Jewish Congress (see page 12 of the January 2009 CJC newsletter)

Anyway, as I was saying Martha, CJC operatives often write letters to the editor without identifying their affilations so I don't see the problem with Rabkin, who holds no position in IJV and is not a paid staffer, doing the same. Of course, I didn't expect my point to be proven so spectacularly and hypocritically by Marilyn Shapiro. Please give her my thanks.


Unionist
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Nicely sleuthed, Mycroft.

Anyway, I think Martha and Marilyn have a point. In future, when I write letters to the editor, in the interests of full disclosure, I will identify myself as "Caucasian", "Jew", "Heterosexual", and member of a Trade Union - that way, readers can decide in context whether my views have any merit.

 


skdadl
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Good work, Mycroft.

 

Unionist wrote:

How dare these characters arrogate to themselves the power to decide who represents the Jewish community of Canada?

Perhaps next, they will say that the "place for dialogue and consultation" with the world Jewish community is in Israel?

Where should we go for dialogue and consultation with the Christian community of Canada? Rome? How about Christians voting on who represents them?

The United Church should stick to its own affairs if it is intellectually or morally incapable of understanding others.

 

Gee, those were exactly my thoughts when I read Farber arrogating to himself the power to give paternalistic advice and guidance to the UCC.

 

Farber is clearly clueless about presbyterian organization, and I suspect intellectually and morally resistant to understanding them. Unfortunately, he appears to have succeeded temporarily in intimidating some national council gasbags into placating him, a state of affairs that will in no sense be settled in the church as a whole by this statement, which they will no doubt find out at the next conference, if they aren't already hearing it, as I should think they would be.

 

In other news, Ezra Levant has followed up on his last taunting of Irwin Cotler by calling Cotler an Uncle Tom and the Liberal Party's "porch Jew," and gossiping about the "court Jews" in the party in general. I believe the original taunt was "house Jew." I don't think I should link to Levant's site here, but if anyone can't find this by googling, send me a PM.

 

That's what I meant, though, by the ramping up. Even for Ezra, isn't that 'way over the top?


Michelle
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Ha, Mycroft, awesome. :D

What do you have to say to that, Martha B? :D


Skinny Dipper
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skdadl wrote:

Quote:
“We get that the United Church is a decentralized body, but it is incumbent on the national leadership to issue guidance.”

 

And Mr Farber, apparently, feels it is incumbent upon him to issue guidance to an organization that is formed of presbyteries what is incumbent upon them.

 

Head ... desk ... Bernie Farber owes me a keyboard. 

 

Wow. Where does one get that sense of entitlement?

 

Farber likes organizing everything.  He even told the Toronto Pride how to organize a pride parade.  Pride was meant to be non-political in his opinion.  Maybe Bernie should have a reality TV show where he can go to different organizations and families and teach them how to organize different events and activties.

"Dear Fatah Party of eastern Israel:"

"I'll tell you how to negotiate.  You must lay down all weapons, recognize Iarael, accept Israel's terms of surrender, and then negotiate in Egypt with an Egyptian mediator.  Don't try for mediation through a European.  Certainly don't call for a boycott in Europe of Israeli products and services.  You'll only make things worse for yourself.  Israel is like your bigger brother who grabs your arm and then says, 'Don't hit yourself.  Don't hit yourself.'"


Skinny Dipper
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When I think about Bernie, we could use a good man like him to help us organize our anti-prorogation movement.  Maybe he could suggest that we should just send letters to our local MPs via Bernie's office.  He can then send them express via Garbageolator courier.


Gus Williams
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Marylin Shapiro was at a WJC conclave and a Queens Park event honoring CJC? So what? I understand that all Canadian Jews who support the positions of CJC and give to their local UJA can be part of CJC. I know some people who were at the Q!ueens Park event as well but are not members of any committee of CJC or on its Board. If in fact like Rabkin Shapiro sits on a CJC Board or committee then that should have been stated, Otherwise unlike Rabkin she is a member of the Canadian jewish community free to come to plenaries and conclaves as is any Jew who meets the criteria. Heck as I recall Ebie Wiesfeld attended the CJC plenary as did Diane Ralph.


aka Mycroft
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Gus, the point isn't that she's a member of CJC (and yes, she's a member and a quite senior one, otherwise she wouldn't have been a CJC delegate to the WJC) , it's that she's a member of CJC but didn't mention that in her letter in which she also assailed Yakov Rabkin for not having said he's in IJV. Simply put, she's a hypocrite.


Gus Williams
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Actually Mycroft there seems to have been many who went to Israel for the WJC conclave. In order to attend their conclaves you do not have to be a mamber of CJC . In fact many Jewish groups from around the world bring jewish delehgates to the WJC conclave. These people are not necessarily Board members or committee members, just committed Jews who want to participate.

Unless you have proof that Shapiro is a Board member or sits on any official committees of CJC the analogy simply doesn't hold. The problem for you Akamycroft, is that you don't get the fact that the vast majority of Jews , literally thousands, affiliate in some waay with UJA or CJC. They give money to UJA are they members? They attend CJC sponsored events, are they members? All synagogues are under the CJC unbrella, are all these synagogue members also "members" of CJC? Of course not. Continue to play this any way you want but it doeant fly


aka Mycroft
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Gus, you have twice now admitted that Shapiro is "affiliated" with the CJC. At the very least she is "deeply involved" which is exactly what she says of Rabkin and Reverend Assalay (who is not a member of IJV but who Shapiro assails for not stating his supposed involvement with IJV in his letter). Rabkin, by the way, is not a member of any IJV board or committee either so he has no greater status in IJV than what you are claiming for Shapiro in regards to CJC. In other words, any way you slice it, and regardless of how you try to spin it, her letter is hypocritical.

The point remains she cannot assail Rabkin and Assalay for not stating that they are "involved" with IJV (even without being a member as in Assalay's case) while failing to state her own involvement with CJC.


Gus Williams
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Is that so akamycroft? Well perhaps you haven't seen this from the IJV website.. Its actually an article written by Yacov Rabkin where he describes himself as a member of IJV

 

"The author is Professor of History at the University of Montreal, a member of Independent Jewish Voices Montreal, currently Visiting Scholar at La Trobe University. His recent book is A Threat from Within: A Century of Jewish Opposition to Zionism. These comments were made at the State Library of Victoria, Melbourne, after the play was performed there on May 18.

http://ijvcanada.org/ijv-activities-vji-nos-activites/seven-jewish-child...


aka Mycroft
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Incidentally Gus, the CJC Newsletter I was referring to also has a lead article titled "Record Canadian Representation at WJC Plenary" which states:

Quote:
a record 20 Canadian Jewish Congress delegates participated, the largest Canadian contingent ever

(emphasis added)

So yes, she was a Canadian Jewish Congress delegate. If you want to argue that this isn't proof she's also a CJC member go ahead but I think any reasonable person would see your claim as making a distinction without a difference.


aka Mycroft
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Gus Williams wrote:

Is that so akamycroft? Well perhaps you haven't seen this from the IJV website.. Its actually an article written by Yacov Rabkin where he describes himself as a member of IJV

Um Gus, I didn't say Rabkin isn't a member of IJV, I said he "is not a member of any IJV board or committee" in the same way you said Shapiro doesn't belong to a CJC board or committee. I did, however, say Reverend Assalay, who Shapiro also attacked for not identifying his "involvement" with IJV, is not a member of the group.

Now please stop, you're embarassing yourself.

 


Unionist
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The most important point is this:

Rabkin and Assaly both write about the issue.

Shapiro responds to nothing in their content - just attacks them personally (and, of course, groundlessly, as Mycroft has ably shown).

By the way, Shapiro's use of the tired and repetitive lying adjective "mainstream" indelibly outs her as an agent of the CJC. It's the word they use to try to carve themselves a "centre" niche between the nutjobs of the BB and the real enemy - the Jews with a conscience.

But it doesn't matter who Shapiro is. What matters is that she has nothing to say, except character assassination. And that's a good thing.


Jaku
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This is all too funny and is really a good example of how folks on the peripherary of the Canadian Jewish community simply don't understand how the community functions.

CJC is not a "membership" organization. Any Canadian Jew who supports the mandate of CJC and gives to their local uja campaign is eligible to participate in its events, plenaries, meetings etc. That is why 20 Canadian Jews can go to a World Jewish Congress event in Israel as part of a CJC delegation. It a way to involve Canadian Jews in their community.

For the same reason CJC plenaries attract thousands as do other CJC events like Darfur Shabbat, and the struggle for Soviet and Syrian Jewry in which tens of nthousands of Canadian Jews participated under the auspices of CJC. They were not members; they were part of the Jewish community of which thousands are "affiliated either through their temple or hadassah or many other groups or just as individuals to CJC.

I went to the last WJC conclave in 2004 . I went under the auspices of CJC with 14 others. Absolutely none of us ever had any connection to CJC in the past. None of us belonged to any of the myriad of Boards and committees the CJC operates. We were, like Marylin Shapiro, Canadian Jews supportive of the CJC and UJA work. That's it.

So I guess you can continue to flog this horse mycroft but in fact you are flogging a dead horse. Time to stop,.


aka Mycroft
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Jaku wrote:

CJC is not a "membership" organization.

I think what you mean to say is that the CJC is not a democratic organization.


St. Paul's Prog...
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skdadl wrote:
In other news, Ezra Levant has followed up on his last taunting of Irwin Cotler by calling Cotler an Uncle Tom and the Liberal Party's "porch Jew," and gossiping about the "court Jews" in the party in general. I believe the original taunt was "house Jew." I don't think I should link to Levant's site here, but if anyone can't find this by googling, send me a PM.

We should ask Ezra Levant how many Jewish Conservative MPs there are.

One way for the Conservatives not to make inroads in the Jewish community is by continuing to attack Cotler in this manner.  He is highly respected in the Jewish community.


Polunatic2
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Quote:
We should ask Ezra Levant how many Jewish Conservative MPs there are.

Rabbi Ezra has made them all honourary Jews. LIke John Duncan, conservative MP from BC (and "spy"), who sent me 10%er lecturing me about Jewish values by castigating the liberals as an anti-semitic organization. 


Boom Boom
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Anyone watch The National last night? Canada as the stupidest most pro-Israel nation on earth?


aka Mycroft
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With Frank Dimant praising Harper saying "he's not an honest broker and doesn't try to listen to both sides"!

Just how stupid is Dimant? He must be in his own little echo chamber if he thinks those words actually make Harper look good.


aka Mycroft
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Here's something to pull out the next time someone says using the word apartheid is "hate speech":

Barak: make peace with Palestinians or face apartheid

Quote:
"As long as in this territory west of the Jordan river there is only one political entity called Israel it is going to be either non-Jewish, or non-democratic," Barak said. "If this bloc of millions of ­Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state."


Unionist
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The CBC National report can be watched here - start at about the 22 min. mark.

 


Boom Boom
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I expect last night's comments will be dissected by tonight's regular Thursday At Issue panel. I can hardly wait.Laughing


Unionist
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aka Mycroft wrote:

Here's something to pull out the next time someone says using the word apartheid is "hate speech":

Barak: make peace with Palestinians or face apartheid

Good quote, Mycroft - although I confess I don't understand exactly what Barak is saying. The story continues:

Quote:

He described Israel and the Palestinian territories as the historic "land of Israel" to which Israelis had a right.

"We have to demarcate a border within the land of Israel," he said.

"We have a linkage, we have a right, but the reality of standing on the stage of history in realistic terms requires us to pay attention to ­international constraints."

Sounds as if he's calling for a Bantustan compromise, not even quite a two-state solution - i.e., apartheid in a slightly different package.

 


Cookiebehbeh
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We have gone very much off topic here seems to me.


Unionist
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Cookiebehbeh wrote:

We have gone very much off topic here seems to me.

Your comment is totally off topic. In fact, you're the only person in this thread who has not yet commented on the topic. But thanks for the observation.

 


Cookiebehbeh
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I am an avid reader of this site. I dont post often and after your response I may not respond when you are in the thread. Your admonition was ill-advised and certainly unecessary.

In the end you are wrong. The title of this thread is: The National Post and Canadian Jewish Congress attack independent Jewish voices again. How are the latest posts on topic?


Unionist
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See Mycroft, when one form of diversion fails, they try another.

It is absolutely essential IMO that we not engage them in these provocations. I would love to see IJV simply issuing statements and organizing activities in the name of the Jewish community as a whole. The fanatics and the Zionists should never be allowed to get away with their "mainstream" thesis. It's very cleverly packaged. Jews of conscience will only be marginalized if we see ourselves that way and allow ourselves to be marginalized. We are the mainstream - the representatives of the enlightened and progressive trend of Judaism throughout the centuries. Let the Dimants and Farbers of this world attack all they like. They can't change that historical truth.

 


remind
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That  nonsense last night on the CBC was gag worthy, at best,  and I lost complete respect for Wendy M, not that I had much left anyway.

Maybe her or Peter are going for the next round of Senate appointees?

 

As for him stating that Harper was not an honest broker and basically infering that he and other Jewish people love it that he is so..or at least 65% of Jewish people in Canacda do, I was gob smacked.

 


yingyang
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Re: United Church meeting with CJC and United Church statement following meeting.

The tone of the United Church website statement is, to say the least, uncomfortable. In true 'liberal' fashion, the church has backed away from confrontation, accepted brow-beating and intimidation from the CJC, and sold Independent Jewish Voices down the drain. I am sure, somewhere in the back of the church participants' minds, some nagging questions remain -

such as:

Have we chosen "power and principalities" over truth and justice?

Will we be as amenable to criticism from Muslim lobbyists as we have been from the Jewish lobby?

And what was Judas's problem, anyway?

Perhaps some 'discernment' is in order...


Cookiebehbeh
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Thank you ying yang for not succumbing to Unionist's bullying and gettin back on topic. The UCC had already distanced itself from IJV (needlessly I believe) so I wonder why this had to be re-done. As for CJC, complain about it all you want but it knows how to advocate.


oldgoat
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Cookiebehbeh no one's bullying, so stop being provocative.


aka Mycroft
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Within Israel the attacks on even the Zionist left is intensifying.

Quote:

Attack on NIF and Israeli Human Rights Groups


Dear Friends and Supporters,


In light of the smear campaign being run by a group called "Im Tirtzu," it should be clear to all that we are engaged in a struggle for Israeli democracy.  That is not an exaggeration.  This is also a not to be missed opportunity, because many people are waking up and realizing the just how dangerous the situation has become.   Please find below a description of the situation,  a list of things that every one of us must do that was developed in an emergency meeting with the New Israel Fund and fellow Israeli human rights organizations on Monday, and helpful links.  Many of the links in the body of this message are to Hebrew websites, but there are English language links below.

To paraphrase Mattathias the Macabee, "Everyone who is for democracy with us."

Many of you know that the de-legitimization campaign being waged against Israeli human rights organizations was taken to another level on Friday when Ben Caspitattacked the New Israel Fund (NIF) and many Israel NGO's (Including RHR) in the newspaper Ma'ariv and on the NRG news website. The attack was based on the vicious and inciteful report issued by the extreme right wing organization, "Im Tirtzu," claiming that most of the information in the Goldstone Report incriminating Israel was supplied by Israeli NGO's supported by the NIF.  A second Ma'ariv/NRG journalist, Ben Dror Yemini, added an additional article in Maariv on Monday.  On Wednesday the chair of the Knesset Constitutional Committee MK David Rotem threatened to set up a sub committee to investigate funding from abroad, and, during a special Knesset debate on the Im Tirtzu report,  MK Otniel Schneller called for a Parliamentary Committee to look into what Israeli NGO's passed on to the Goldstone Committee.  On Channel B radio this morning (Thursday) MK Yisrael Hasson went so far as to say that he intends to check whether Israeli HR organizations are receiving money from enemies, and that if he were Hamas he would be setting up three organizations to do what Israeli HR organizations do.

The smear campaign has included expensive banners on the YNET and NRG websites (the banners are still on the NRG website), a full page ad in the Jerusalem Post, and who knows where and what else.  The various statements in the ads, banners and on the Im Tirtzu website include an ugly caricatureof former MK Naomi Chazan (currently NIF chairperson) with a large demonic horn with "NIF" written on it is growing out of her forehead (In Hebrew, "keren" is both "fund" and "horn.").   This caricature sends shivers up my spine as I recall the pictures of Yitzhak Rabin z"l dressed in an S.S. uniform at that infamous demonstration in Zion Square in Jerusalem not so long before he was murdered.  A sampling of the texts accompanying the caricature include:

"Now it is a fact:  Naomi's fund endangers the State."

 

 

 

 

"We love Naomi Chazan and hate the IDF" (Signs at an Im Tirzu demonstration outside her house dressed as Hamasniks with keffiyas.)
"Fact:  the NIF headed by Naomi Chazan is behind the Goldstone reports defamation of the IDF"
"In the past three years Naomi Chazan's fund granted 8 million dollars to 16 anti-Zionist organizations that gave the ammunition to charge Israel with war crimes."
"Naomi Goldstone Chazan"
True, it is difficult to know where to draw the line between harsh but legitimate criticism, and incitement.  However, Im Tirtzu has clearly crossed red lines, lied and mislead.  I find it very disturbing that YNET sold banner space to Im Tirtzu, but in December refused to run a "B'Tselem ad campaign on Gaza, saying that they did not want to defend the public. 

I have only quickly read through the section on RHR in the Im Tirtzu report, but the "proof" that we are anti-Zionist and are responsible for the Goldstone report was the fact that the report mentions items the letter we send to the Israeli attorney general calling for an independent and transparent Israeli investigation, the petition we published in HaAretz and on the mini-website we set up for our Gaza campaign and our High Court appeals and other activities on behalf of Palestinian human rights. 

Nothing in our activities, those of the NIF, or in the activities of the other targeted organizations justifies Im Tirtzu's vicious and dangerous campaign. The Im Tirtzu campaign crosses so many red lines that even the controversial Christian Zionist  Reverend Hagee is repudiating it.   As I write, there are initial reports that Reverent Hagee has now announced that he will stop funding Im Tirtzu.

I could be content to simply issue a call to defend democracy and claim Lashon HaRa (slander).  We could minimize our connection to Goldstone and disassociate ourselves from the NGO's who contributed information to the committee.  However, that would be wrong.  The struggle of RHR and our partners is just and essential for the future of Israel.  Our struggle is a just and Zionist struggle.  It is the struggle over "Who are we" and who we want to be.  It is a painful struggle, and we pray that an independent investigation will prove that all of our suspicions were wrong.  And yes, our struggle is faithful to what we and our partners have said consistently from the outset, "Citizens must not be targets - not Israelis in Sderot and not Palestinians in Gaza."  We care about every human being because, by virtue of being human, we are all created in God's Image.  I am proud of all that we and our partners have done and are doing here in Israel to achieve an independent and transparent Israeli investigation.  I only wish that we were doing more.

The de-legitimization did not begin on Friday.  As always in these matters, evil grows when good people prefer not to know.  At our Gaza conference in May, Im Tirtzu demonstrated outside with "Matza dipped in blood."  We of course invited them in to be a part of the conversation.  (A few came in, asked one question, and then left.) 

Im Tirtzu's report cites Gerald Steinberg's "NGO Monitor," an organization which for years has smeared any NGO which Professor Steinberg defines as "anti-Israel" or "extremist," without ever giving the public a definition of these terms which they throw around.  This is but one example of how The Monitor pretends to be holding NGO's to standards of reliability, but consistently violates these very same standards.  I once asked Professor Steinberg how it is that they advertise themselves as an organization holding all Middle East NGO's to standards, but in practice only reports on NGO's that deal with Israeli HR violations.  He answered that Israel is in a battle for her survival and that the real goal of his organization was to be a part of the PR battle.  The Monitor has been working in the Knesset and abroad to dry up funding sources for Human Rights organizations, as well as left wing organizations.

We must take action along two lines:
1.    All those who value Israel's democracy, especially those who do not agree with us regarding Gaza, must say as one, "Sharp public debate yes - Incitement no!"
2.    We can not expect the entire public to defend our position calling for an Israeli independent and transparent inquiry into the Gaza War.  However, we can not accept a situation in which all that is said publicly after this attack is "Well, you are right that what HR organizations did was controversial and we don't agree with everything either, but that is democracy."  We must say loudly and clearly:
a.    The positions taken by Im Tirtzu, NGO Monitor, Ben Caspit and Ben-Dror Yemini  endanger the State and abandon our children.
b.    A moral army is not handed to us on a silver platter, but is achieved through constant vigilance, willingness to investigate, ask questions, and educate in ways that make it clear that we do more than pay lip service to our declared values.
c.    If former attorney Mani Mazuz had not waited until the day after he stepped down to support an independent investigation, but had ordered one a year ago when Israeli HR organizations first wrote to him, there might never have been a Goldstone Commission.  If today the Government would not allow Defense Minister Ehud Barak (Perhaps the person with the most to lose if an investigation would sadly find that there had been systematic violations of international law and Jewish values.) to block an Israeli independent transparent investigation, we might yet avoid an international investigation.
d.    We are Israeli patriots and Zionists who believe with all our heart that what we are demanding is not only the just and Jewish thing to do, but is what is best for our country.

 

Quote:
The Talmud tells of Nahum Ish Gam Zo, who whatever ill befell him would say "Gam zo l'tova," (This is also for the good.)  There is no pleasure to be gained from this threat to our democracy and the danger both to our society and to targeted individuals should in no way be dismissed.  However, for too long, too many have been unaware of what is happening in our society.  If history will record that this was the moment in which supporters of Israeli democracy and human rights united to defend those values they held most dear, then Gam zo l'tova.

B'Vrakha (In Blessing)

Rabbi Arik W. Ascherman

Executive Director Rabbis for Human Rights


Jaku
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Cookiebehbeh, if you want to post here you gotta develop a thick skin. Hell that was Unionist just being uinonist Smile


Jaku
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oldgoat
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Jaku wrote:

Cookiebehbeh, if you want to post here you gotta develop a thick skin. Hell that was Unionist just being uinonist Smile

 

Jaku maybe you didn't get where I asked Cookiebehbeh not to be provocative.  How 'bout not being Jaku for a bit.


Jaku
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Apologies OG it was honestly meant as an attempt at humour...


Boom Boom
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Boom Boom wrote:

I expect last night's comments will be dissected by tonight's regular Thursday At Issue panel. I can hardly wait.Laughing

Mansbridge had Gerald Caplan give the response. Caplan said it was wrong for the Conservatives to treat Israel as Canada's best friend in the whole wide world, instead of holding Israel to account.


Unionist
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Good for Caplan! Could he be "one of the few Jews in the world opposed to Israel as a Jewish homeland", in the carefully scripted words of Thornhill resident Marilyn Shapiro?

Every time a Jew of conscience speaks out, it is another blow against the "anti-Israel = anti-Jewish" Harper-Dimant-Farber "mainstream". This conscience is awakening around the world.


Jaku
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You mean Harper-Ignatieff-Layton-Dimant=Farber to be sure...


skdadl
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Diana Ralph of IJV answers Jonathan Kay's (and others') attacks on her in the National Post.


Unionist
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From above link:

Quote:
Richard Falk, the U.N. Special Rapporteur on Palestinian Human Rights, calls this strategy the “politics of deflection, the tendency by Israel to attack the messenger in order to avoid the message.”

For proof, check out this thread.

Thanks for this, skdadl. The struggle continues.



aka Mycroft
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Jaku wrote:

You mean Harper-Ignatieff-Layton-Dimant=Farber to be sure...

Didn't Iggy once say that the shelling of Qana was a war crime?


aka Mycroft
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Jaku wrote:

You mean Harper-Ignatieff-Layton-Dimant=Farber to be sure...

Didn't Iggy once say that the shelling of Qana was a war crime?


Lord Palmerston
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skdadl wrote:

Diana Ralph of IJV answers Jonathan Kay's (and others') attacks on her in the National Post.

I didn't know that Antonia Zerbisias is Jewish.  Not that that makes what she says any more or less valid.


skdadl
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Lord Palmerston wrote:

skdadl wrote:

Diana Ralph of IJV answers Jonathan Kay's (and others') attacks on her in the National Post.

I didn't know that Antonia Zerbisias is Jewish.  Not that that makes what she says any more or less valid.

 

Heh. She isn't. She's a Canadian of Greek descent -- have I put that properly? I know she wouldn't mind the honorary attribution, though.


Unionist
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You can be Canadian, Greek descent, and Jewish. I hereby bestow the Honorary Jew title on Antonia. She's done more than most to merit it.

 


Star Spangled C...
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And I hereby rescind the honour. This is the woman who posted a despicable Twitter comment questioning Irwin Cotler's loyalty to Canada because his israeli citizen daughter served in the IDF.

She'll thank me though. Were she to become and "honorary Jew", she'd just have to hate herself.


skdadl
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SSC, no. That is not what she wrote, although I don't have that compressed text before me (including link to a vid of Cotler's statement). But it was clear from what Zerbisias said that she wasn't focused on anything the daughter did -- she was bothered by Cotler's statement, and she addressed that fairly, without dragging his family into it.


Star Spangled C...
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Here is the exact text that she posted: "MP Irwin Cotler's children join IDF. http://bit.ly/1Ttsq0 Which country are you loyal to, sir?"

 

She clearly DID use a personal decision that his adult children made as a pre-text to questioning the loyalty of a staunchly federalist Quebec MP. It would be like using MY decision to live in the United States with my American wife to suggest that my parents weren't loyal to Canada.

 

Jews also are very familiar with being accused of "dual loyalty". If there's any redeeming or mitigating quality to what she said, it's that she managed to restrain herself from accusing Cotler of murdering Christian children and using their blood to bake his Passover matzahh.

 


Unionist
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Star Spangled Canadian wrote:

And I hereby rescind the honour. This is the woman who posted a despicable Twitter comment questioning Irwin Cotler's loyalty to Canada because his israeli citizen daughter served in the IDF.

Yeah, the McCarthyites of the National Post jumped on that one. Here's Dr. Dawg's deconstruction of how the character assassination works. We see it on babble all the time.

I won't respond to SSC's hysterical blood libel here. I'll only say that I question Irwin Cotler's loyalty to the best traditions of the Jewish people.

 


Star Spangled C...
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Okay, but not to Canada? That's big of you.


skdadl
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SSC, have you watched that video? It's Cotler who drags his family in, not anyone else. And it is Cotler's statement that is the problem. And Antonia puts her question to Cotler, not to his family.

 

I recognize that it is not necessarily illegal for a Canadian to join the forces of another country, or to endorse that, although the potential for trouble seems to me obvious. (See the very fast footwork that the U.S. DoJ is doing, post facto, to cope with Merkins who have fought with forces that were suddenly deemed hostile. Like, this is highly suspect in law.)

 

The problem was never Cotler's family, and no one would have mentioned them if he hadn't. The problem is what Cotler said. He is not just any Canadian. He is a former minister of justice, and could be such again. It wouldn't matter who he was talking about joining up with a foreign army -- Canadians have the right to wonder about someone with his kind of official power who would urge other Canadians to do that.


Star Spangled C...
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It is in no way illegal for a Canadian to join the IDF. But it's also worth pointing out that Cotler's two daughters are both israeli citizens, as it Cotler's wife. One daughter was born there. One moved there later in life. Both are married to Israeli men and both have lived there for some time.

Yes, cotler is the one who "brought up" his family. Zerbesias then takes an inocuous statement of a proud father and uses it to question the loyalty of a member of Canadian parliament to his own country.

it would be like my dad saying "I'm really proud of my son, SSC. He's married to a wonderful woman and he's practicing emdicine down in Virginia" and ahving people using my wife and my residence to question my father's loyalty to Canada. His children are adults and can do whatever tehy choose. It's no reflection on him - I think by now he's proven his "loyalty".


Unionist
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This thread will end soon, but SSC is providing another stirring example of what Richard Falk called the "politics of deflection, the tendency by Israel to attack the messenger in order to avoid the message."

 


Star Spangled C...
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The tendency "by israel"? Um, just to clarify, unionist, while I'm a Jew, I'm not actually "israel." But a lot of people seem to make that mistake...


skdadl
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I don't think so, SCC. That is more than the statement of a proud father, although Cotler (to my mind) mixes principle and personal stuff up in a most unprincipled way for a parliamentarian, but maybe he does that on purpose, so as to have a sentimentalist defence to fall back on when someone challenges him on principle.

 

I do not believe that members of our government -- and I include the whole of Parliament -- should be actively encouraging Canadians to join armies of foreign powers. No, that is not illegal -- until it becomes illegal, which can happen very fast (see the U.S. for examples) -- but is that our standard for MPs and ministers? Oh, great: we can elect him because at least he isn't a criminal?

 

I'm an internationalist. I hope that one day we won't have these problems. But at the moment, we do. And I wonder very much at anyone who would take away the right of a Canadian citizen to question the wisdom of proselytizing for a foreign army. That's what Antonia did, and it is frightening that she was attacked for it.


Jaku
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aka Mycroft wrote:

Jaku wrote:

You mean Harper-Ignatieff-Layton-Dimant=Farber to be sure...

Didn't Iggy once say that the shelling of Qana was a war crime?

Once then he retracted


contrarianna
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skdadl wrote:

Diana Ralph of IJV answers Jonathan Kay's (and others') attacks on her in the National Post.

Thank you for the blog link.
It is not surprising the Independent Jewish Voices should be vilified by the organs of the ultra-Zionist Asper media empire.
What is even more disturbing is the fact that a defense against this outrage is relegated to blogs and not other taken up by other major media outlets which are either complicit or cowed by the implicit threat of being labeled "antisemitic" or an "enemy of Jews" by the lobby.

How different the situation was years ago before the pro-Israel penchant for revisionist history made Albert Einstein one of their own:


Quote:
Albert Einstein, Sidney Hook, Hannah Arendt and twenty five other prominent Jews, in a letter to The New York Times (December 4, 1948), condemned Menachem Begin's and Yitzhak Shamir's Likud party as "fascist" and espousing "an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism and racial superiority."[6]

In 1950, Einstein published the following statement on the question of Zionism. This speech was originally given to the National Labor Committee for Palestine, in New York, on April 17, 1938 but republished by Einstein after Israel's creation.
Quote:

I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. Apart from the practical considerations, my awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight without a Jewish state.[7]

....
It is clear that Albert Einstein did not support political Zionism and opposed a "Jewish State" based on an ethnic or racial basis. His political views were remarkably consistent and supported universal human rights. He was opposed to war and chauvinistic ethnic nationalism. Today Einstein is a revered as a political and scientific icon. However, many unfortunately forget his wise words on the issue of Palestine and its conflict with political Zionism.


http://www.opednews.com/articles/ALBERT-EINSTEIN-ON-PALESTI-by-Edward-Co...


Lord Palmerston
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Yes Ignatieff has done far more than needed to "make up" for that.  There is no difference between the Conservatives and Liberals on Israel anymore.  That's probably why Ezra Levant has decided to write over the top stuff about how Irwin Cotler is the "house Jew" in the Liberal Party (even though there are no Jewish Tory MPs!) and how virtually all Jews now support Harper  and why the Conservatives sent out those flyers.


Jaku
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One mo' time, Cotler,s daughter is Israeli!!! israel has a military conscription. She had to serve by law. Why is this being made into Irwin Cotler's issue?


skdadl
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Jaku wrote:

One mo' time, Cotler,s daughter is Israeli!!! israel has a military conscription. She had to serve by law. Why is this being made into Irwin Cotler's issue?

 

One more time: Irwin Cotler's daughter is completely beside the point to everyone but Irwin Cotler, or those who wish to play his sentimentalizing games.

 

The point is what Cotler himself said. Could you stick to the point?


Star Spangled C...
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Read her quote. She mentioned that his daughters joined the IDF and then asked which country he is loyal to.


Lord Palmerston
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I apologize for bringing up Antonia Zerbisias at all.


skdadl
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SSC, it's a tweet. She only has so many characters. Part of that is the link to the video, and the video is text. The question follows.

 

Have you watched the video?


Ken Burch
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