NEXT LABOUR: The Corbyn Era begins in

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture
NEXT LABOUR: The Corbyn Era begins in

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

This is a new thread for further discussions of the changes that are going to occur in the British Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership.

(Mods, could you please add "the UK" after the word "in" in the thread title?  Thanks.)

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I don't have anything against Corbyn -- in fact, as a scruffy middle aged guy who likes to "comb" his hair with his fingers, I've got a thumbs-up for him just for being -- but are you looking to jinx this?

Or, to put it another way, will the Corbyn Era last longer than the Tsipras Era?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

The last thing I wans is to jinx this...the intent here is just to create a space for further discussion since the other thread I started on the guy(before he actually managed to win the leadership contest, which nobody, including Corbyn himself, thought was possible at the start).

As to how long he will last as leader...

Well, at this point, he's not prime minister(there won't even be another election until 2020, unless the Tories have some sort of freakishly massive split)so he doesn't have anything to negotiate with "the Troika".

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Well, at this point, he's not prime minister(there won't even be another election until 2020, unless the Tories have some sort of freakishly massive split)so he doesn't have anything to negotiate with "the Troika".

Fair enough.  And I think that's not even a bad thing, in and of itself.  The phrase "the devil you know..." tends to give the advantage to the devil we know, but I personally think the devil we don't know has some advantages too.  And again, this isn't a criticism of Corbyn at all.

I suppose my question in the context of the thread would be "what sorts of hopes and dreams and expectations will be pinned on him in the next four years?"

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Well(and after this I'm going start posting links to articles about Corbyn as leader and Labour's new direction in general)I'd say that these hopes, in general, will be "pinned" on the guy(I only hope he'll be wearing a shirt at the time or it could get painful)

1) That Labour will now offer a clear alternative to the neoliberal/austerity consensus

2) That a decisive break with Blair's militaristic and quasi-imperial foreign policy will emerge

3) That unity within the Labour ranks will somehow be forged(even though it's clear that, at this early stage, the vast majority of Labour MPs are outraged that Corbyn won the leadership and many of them still refuse to accept it)so that defeat of the Tory government will be possible. Corbyn has vowed not to push for deselection of sitting Labour MPs as the Labour candidate in the next election, but perhaps a system based on the US concept of a "party primary" could be developed.  It's kind of undemocratic for a sitting Labour MP to be able to expect(as she or he currently can)to continue to be the Labour candidate in his or her constituency until they either lose the seat, choose to stand down, or die.

NDPP

Israel Up in Arms Over the Corbyn Threat

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/18/israel-up-in-arms-over-the-corbyn...

"Following Jeremy Corbyn's election as Labour's new leader, the news in Israel was bleak. 'New Labor Leader in Britain: Anti-Zionist' read the headline of Yisrael Hayom, the most widely read newspaper in Israel..."

lagatta

At least they said he was "anti-Zionist" (which can mean many different things, and the most important thing is to defend the rights of the Palestinian people - I don't think the current population of Israel is going anywhere) and not "anti-Semitic". There is no basis whatsoever for the latter slur against him.

Yeah, I confess I like someone who looks a bit scruffy like an absent-minded professor or science nerd, even when they put him in a suit.  On the other political side, Angela Merkel was like that, though the spin doctors did relook her a bit.

Not all will agree with the exact wording of any thread title, but I'm glad there is one confirming that Corbyn is indeed the elected leader of the Labour Party UK.

NDPP

UK Tories Attack Jeremy Corbyn (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/Video/2015/09/18/429722/Britain-Tory-David-Camero...

"British PM David Cameron has branded the country's new opposition Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn as a 'threat to national security.' George Galloway and his listeners discuss."

Zionism attacks

lagatta

Well, imperialism in general. Including support to Zionism, but by no means limited to it.

NDPP

Guardian's Terrible Dilemma Over Corbyn

http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/09/guardians-terrible-dilemma-over-corbyn/

"In truth, the Guardian's character assassination of Corbyn, rather than discrediting him, served only to discredit the paper with its own readers. Media like the Guardian are tied by a commercial and ideological umbilical cord to a neoliberal order a large swath of their readers are growing restless with or downright appalled by..."

NDPP

Jeremy Corbyn: A Man Who Didn't Try to Fashion A Career  -  by Boris Kagarlitsky

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/24/jeremy-corbyn-a-man-who-didnt-try...

"It's funny to read today in our Russian press (and in the Western press) about Corbyn as the representative of the 'hard left'. Both his program and his activity do not go beyond what was considered as a normal social democratic agenda during the 1970s and 1980s.

The accusation against Mr Corbyn of extreme radicalism speaks more about the shift of European and British politics to a right 'axis' than about the shift of views of MP Corbyn and his supporters.

But sometimes adherence to principles can be good advertising. Especially when others betray and sell out, it is quite possible to be glorified based on the sole fact that you behave decently.

Thus the success of Mr Corbyn revealed the complete moral failure of the 'political class' and its staff of intellectuals dominating the public opinion of the West over the past two decades.

If these people still had the trust and respect of the society, 'the phenomenon' of Corbyn would have been simply impossible..."

Doug Woodard

How Corbyn won; the campaign:

http://gu.com/p/4ck8a/sbl

 

NDPP

Corbyn Suffers First 'Humiliating' Blow as Labour Rejects His Anti-Nuclear Policy

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/09/27/431008/Corbyn-suffers-first-hum...

"Britain's new Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn suffered his first humiliating defeat after his party on Sunday rejected his bid to overhaul the country's nuclear deterrent. This followed fierce opposition from Labour-supporting trade unions that said they would vote to keep nuclear weapons and protect thousands of defense jobs."

lagatta

Several decades ago, workers at Litton Industries (if I recall correctly) in the UK came out with a wide range of ideas for converting military production to peaceful, socially-useful products such as aids for disabled people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_conversion

Workers should not bear the cost, but harmful production must be converted to social needs if possible; if not, the workers should be retrained.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

But it kind of sounds like these workers are OK with packing warheads.  What then?

Doug Woodard

Corbyn's Labour conference speech - mixed review:

http://gu.com/p/4cpfy/sbl

 

NDPP

Labour Will Back Syria Airstrikes...But Only On These Four Conditions

http://www.rt.com/uk/317082-labour-syria-airstrikes-motion/

"UNITE member Ivan Monckton - who was among those who proposed the motion - said the party should not be seen uncritically backing 'another illegal war.'

6079_Smith_W

How long was that era then?

Don't get me wrong. I like Corbyn, and I especially like that he has some rattled enough that they run pictures of dead people to smear him.

But I think Magoo pegged it at #4. If anyone is going to put the knife in it will be those who wind up disappointed that he isn't Jesus Christ, or his atheist, non monarchist equivalent.

 

NDPP

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Don't get me wrong. I like Corbyn,

 

Really? I thought US installed oligarchies were more your speed.

6079_Smith_W

Not that that has anything to do with anything (except perhaps why some of us think Corbyn's worst enemies might be those who are currently all starry-eyed at the prospect of him maybe being the messiah) but I think that might be in your imagination, dear.

Any response on topic?

 

NDPP

My response would be that I am not among the starry-eyed. Social democrats always disappoint and frequently betray.

6079_Smith_W

Good to know about your strong moral principles, NDPP. Maybe don't make assumptions about mine, if you don't mind.

 

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP wrote:

My response would be that I am not among the starry-eyed. Social democrats always disappoint and frequently betray.

There's never been anyone on the left you wouldn't have felt disappointed and betrayed by.  If Trotsky(and, more importantly, his supporters) had toppled Stalin and ended all the misery he caused, you'd have been calling him a sellout six months later.

NDPP

Nonsense. Delighted with Jeremy Corbyn. Without question a positive development one hopes will go as far forward as it can.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I misunderstood, then.  It looked as if you were dismissing Corbyn as just another right-wing social democrat.  Apologies.

NDPP

No problem. But the Canadian version sure as hell is.

NDPP

Siege of Gaza Must End, Jeremy Corbyn Tells Labour Friends of Israel (and vid)

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/siege-gaza-must-end-...

"Palestine solidarity is now at the heart of the wider labor movement in the UK with almost all trade unions endorsing the boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign against Israel.

The UK's Zionist Federation, an increasingly right-wing body, reacted to Corbyn's speech by proclaiming the death of Labour Zionism."

 

swallow swallow's picture

Since he's a social democrat, is Corbyn not destined to disappoint? 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture
bekayne

Lynton Crosby accuses Jeremy Corbyn of "inciting violent behaviour"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3260360/Cameron-s-election-guru-...

Lynton Crosby, the Conservatives’ election winning guru, has accused Jeremy Corbyn of inciting aggressive protests.

The Australian strategist – known as the Wizard of Oz – launched a blistering attack on the Labour leader, suggesting he is encouraging bullies.

He told the Mail: ‘The thing about Corbyn is, he talks about wanting a new, kinder type of politics.

‘But what he is doing is launching a dog whistle campaign from the Left.

‘He is turning up to rallies and inciting this kind of violent behaviour where people are spitting and throwing eggs.’

 

NDPP

Crosby has been engaged by the Harper campaign as well.

josh

bekayne wrote:

Lynton Crosby accuses Jeremy Corbyn of "inciting violent behaviour"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3260360/Cameron-s-election-guru-...

Lynton Crosby, the Conservatives’ election winning guru, has accused Jeremy Corbyn of inciting aggressive protests.

The Australian strategist – known as the Wizard of Oz – launched a blistering attack on the Labour leader, suggesting he is encouraging bullies.

He told the Mail: ‘The thing about Corbyn is, he talks about wanting a new, kinder type of politics.

‘But what he is doing is launching a dog whistle campaign from the Left.

‘He is turning up to rallies and inciting this kind of violent behaviour where people are spitting and throwing eggs.’

 

Dog whistle? Well, as a dog who whistles, he should know.

NDPP

Corbyn: Tory Austerity Failed Approach (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/09/29/431254/UK-CORBYN-AUSTERITY-LABOUR

"UK Labour Party leader has slammed the Tory government's austerity policy, calling it 'The failed approach of the past.' The Labour Party leader also said people should not have to accept what was given to them by global corporations, and there should be no limit on what they could achieve.

'We are a rich country. These things are not necessary or inevitable.'

What the NDP and its leadership should model itself on, not Tony Blair.

NDPP

20 Labour MPs Launch Rebellion Against Corbyn Leadership (and vid)

https://www.rt.com/uk/318745-corbyn-first-rebellion-parliament/

"Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn has faced the first rebellion of his leadership, with some 20 MPs abstaining from a vote on Chancellor George Osborne's fiscal charter, defying the chief whip's order to vote against.

The fiscal charter is designed to force future governments to reduce the deficit and attempt to create a budget surplus - effectively legislating in favor of austerity and against big investments.

Osbsorne called a vote soon after the Labour leadership election in order to exploit divisions within the ranks created by Corbyn's election. The charter was approved by 320 votes to 258 after roughly 20 Labour MPs abstained from the decision, showing their disdain for Corbyn's leadership..."

Looks like a serious problem. Hopefully their constituents will help solve it.

Brachina

NDPP wrote:

Corbyn: Tory Austerity Failed Approach (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/09/29/431254/UK-CORBYN-AUSTERITY-LABOUR

"UK Labour Party leader has slammed the Tory government's austerity policy, calling it 'The failed approach of the past.' The Labour Party leader also said people should not have to accept what was given to them by global corporations, and there should be no limit on what they could achieve.

'We are a rich country. These things are not necessary or inevitable.'

What the NDP and its leadership should model itself on, not Tony Blair.

 

 Hindsight is 20/20, maybe next time.

NDPP

Seumas Milne Appointment as Labour Strategist Rattles Right Wing

https://www.rt.com/uk/319268-milne-labour-strategy

"In a move which has enraged the anti-Corbyn press, journalist Seumas Milne has been appointed labour Party executive director of strategy and communications."

In the  NDP version, a Hill & Knowlton VP is appointed to the position instead

NDPP

Corbyn 'Breached' Saudi-UK Special Relationship - Riyadh's Ambassador to London (and vid)

https://www.rt.com/uk/319728-saudi-corbyn-respect-row/

"...Corbyn's intervention over the prison services contract centered on the case of Ali Mohammed Baqir al Nimra, who was arrested at the age of 17 for resisting the regime and is due to be beheaded and crucified."

NorthReport

Time for Corbyn to sack his shadow foreign secretary

Labour leadership in turmoil over vote on UK military action in Syria

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/26/shadow-cabinet-seriously...

NDPP

Corbyn Opens Door To Labour Backing For British Bombing of Syria

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/12/01/pers-d01.html

"The decision by Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn to allow a free vote on UK participation in bombing missions in Syria is a total capitulation to the right-wing, pro-war forces in his party. Now a supposed 'consensus' has been handed on a plate to Cameron by Corbyn. If the Labour leader had imposed a party whip, Those voting for bombs would have had to do so in defiance of their party.

Of all the ignominious retreats he has made under fire, this is the most fundamental...'

mark_alfred

NDPP wrote:

Corbyn Opens Door To Labour Backing For British Bombing of Syria

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/12/01/pers-d01.html

"The decision by Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn to allow a free vote on UK participation in bombing missions in Syria is a total capitulation to the right-wing, pro-war forces in his party. Now a supposed 'consensus' has been handed on a plate to Cameron by Corbyn. If the Labour leader had imposed a party whip, Those voting for bombs would have had to do so in defiance of their party.

Of all the ignominious retreats he has made under fire, this is the most fundamental...'

I think that's the problem with relying upon either a leader or a party as being the perfect saviour.  No leader and no party alone can be a saviour.  People aren't perfect.  I feel the best thing to do is to support the best option, and in doing so continue to press for better policy decisions.  Putting people or parties on a pedestal is a sure-fire recipe for failure. 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

“What We've Achieved So Far”

Hilary Wainwright and Leo Panitch in conversation with Jeremy Corbyn, the new leader of the UK Labour Party. They talk about the meaning of ‘new politics’, Tony Benn's legacy, and opening up Labour's policymaking to the people.

Hilary Wainwright is a member of Red Pepper's editorial collective and a fellow of the Transnational Institute. Leo Panitch is distinguished research professor at York University, Canada. This interview was conducted on a train ride from Birmingham to London, 12 November 2015.

quote:

LP: Is it your sense that the same type of thing is happening elsewhere?

JC: Yes. Because this wasn't anything to do with me. This was to do with people wanting a different way of doing politics – particularly the young people who came in and were very enthusiastic. Our campaign was a combination of the young and the old, very little in between, the middle-aged weren't there. They were either under 30 or over 60, most of the people that came in to work on the campaign, and the phone-banking they did was quite extraordinary. There was one of them where I witnessed this 18-year-old Asian girl with a burka explaining to a 90-year-old white woman how to operate the mobile phone to make calls, and they were both getting on just fine. And it was kind of lovely.

We had 400 people on a phone bank one night. It was quite extraordinary. I'm not sure how much phoning they did – they did a great deal of chatting to each other. Most of our funding was raised by crowd-funding, small donations, the average donation was £25, and we got union money in. So about half of it was union-funded and the other half was fundraised.

 

NDPP

Jeremy Corbyn: Labour Party and Britain's Bosses Are 'Natural Allies'

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/03/05/corb-m05.html

"Jeremy Corbyn used his first speech to a gathering of Britain's corporate heads to reassure them that the Labour Party under his leadership is an ally of big business..."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

How long has it been for Corbyn?  Did he at least outlast Tsipras, or no?

Seems like "socialist hero" is like the rodeo.  You have to stay on the back of the bull for at least eight seconds just to qualify.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Corbyn hasn't been a prime minister who made a devil's bargain in the same way Tsipiras was forced to.

And why use the phrase "socialist hero" with such contempt?  Do you think it is silly for anyone on the left to have strong principles and stand up for them without apology?

Where would we be if nobody even tried to do that?

(Oh wait, Canada just had an election where the "sensible center-left" leader you seem to hold up as the exemplar was the exact opposite of a "socialist hero".  Do I need to remind you how well THAT worked out?)

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

Yeah! Popularity numbers you can only dream about.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
And why use the phrase "socialist hero" with such contempt?  Do you think it is silly for anyone on the left to have strong principles and stand up for them without apology?

Nothing wrong with having heroes.  It just seems to me that folk are sometimes a bit over-eager to get their pom-poms out for anyone who seems like one, then they end up walking it back later.

In some ways, the best thing that could happen to Bernie Sanders would be to lose the Democratic nomination.  From now until the end of days, his supporters could say "moneyed interests made sure he'd lose", or "the voters just weren't ready to admit his awesome truths".

But if he got elected, he'd promptly have to sign a bill, or approve a mission, or shake hands with a dignitary and that's it.  Honeymoon's over, Bernie.  Please go take your place with Bob Rae.

bekayne
Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Two Labour MPs.  That's all.  The headline makes it sound like the majority of the PLP supports Corbyn's ouster.

The replacement of Corbyn as leader by anyone to his right would make campaigning or voting for Labour at the next election a total waste of time.

No one who wants Labour to lower itself to centrism again cares about workers or the poor. 

Cody87

Mr. Magoo wrote:

In some ways, the best thing that could happen to Bernie Sanders would be to lose the Democratic nomination.  From now until the end of days, his supporters could say "moneyed interests made sure he'd lose", or "the voters just weren't ready to admit his awesome truths".

Only if Clinton's victory doesn't eventually lead to a war between NATO and BRICS, which is a very real possiblity.

NDPP

UK Labour Party in Grip of Zionist Inquisition

http://dissidentvoice.org/2016/04/uk-labour-party-in-grip-of-zionist-inq...

"Joan Ryan  MP, Chair of Labour Friends of Israel, said 'To speak of Zionism - the right of the Jewish people to self determination - and Hitler in the same sentence is quite breathtaking. I am appalled that Ken Livingstone has chosen to do so. He should be suspended from the Labour Party immediately.'

It scarcely needs saying that Zionism may mean self-determination for the Jewish people but it has cruelly denied the Palestinians their right to self determination for decades. Nevertheless, Livingstone is suspended from the party after 47 years..."

 

George Galloway Says Livingstone 'Zionist' Suspension Part of 'Slow Motion Coup' (and vid)

https://www.rt.com/uk/341352-galloway-livingstone-zionism-row/

"London mayoral candidate George Galloway put forward a fiery defence of suspended Ken Livingstone, arguing the former mayor's comments on a Nazi-Zionist accord on relocation were a matter of 'historical fact'.

He argued that there was an 'agreement between the Nazi filth of Hitler and the Zionist leaders in Germany to send Germany's Jews to Palestine because both of them believed that the German Jews were not German and that they were aliens.'

He added in that sense Nazism and Zionism were two sides of the same coin. The even actually minted a coin to celebrate the Havaara agreement which was reached.'

The former MP said that at the root of the issue was an attempt by the Labour right 'to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn'..."

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