North Korea

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progressive17 progressive17's picture

Canada should give Alberta to North Korea as a gesture of peace.

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

Trump's Newest Threat to North Korea Makes a Deal Impossible

https://t.co/ZjvKian6kR

"President Trump again derailed the negotiations with North Korea. It will be difficult to get them back on track. Remarks by US National Security Advisor Bolton that the 'Libya model' would be applied to North Korea were taken as an insult. 

The threat Trump made shows North Korea that it was right to acquire nuclear weapons and the capability to launch them into the continental US. Giving them up would be suicidal..."

Trump has now repudiated Bolton's Libyan model...

US President Donald Trump went to work picking up the pieces after National Security Advisor John Bolton’s remarks about applying the “Libyan model” for North Korea’s denuclearization threatened to derail an upcoming summit with North Korea.

In his response, Trump rejected the Libyan model and declared plans to ensure the security of the regime in Pyongyang. With Trump clearly stating for the first time that the US intends to guarantee the regime’s security, many are now watching to see whether the summit preparations get back on track.

“The Libyan model isn't a model that we have at all when we're thinking of North Korea,” Trump soberly explained to reporters at the White House on May 17. While the occasion was a meeting with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, Trump spoke for over 10 minutes on North Korea.

***

“The Libyan model was a much different model. We decimated that country,” Trump insisted. “We never said to Gaddafi, oh, we're going to give you protection, we're going to give you military strength,” he continued.

Hard to know what to make of this, except that the comments do sound like the more anti-interventionist Trump of the GOP primaries, rather than the bellicose post-election warmonger.

If this is meant as some sort of good cop/bad cop strategy, I can't imagine Bolton is too happy about that. Doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who likes to be publically contradicted by his superiors. Then again, Trump's penchant for humiliating his subordinates is well-known, so Bolton should probably have seen this coming.   

https://tinyurl.com/y7kwldbr

 

 

 

voice of the damned

U.S. President Donald Trump on Thursday called off a planned summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, even after North Korea followed through on a pledge to blow up tunnels at its nuclear test site.

Referring to a scheduled June 12 meeting with Kim in Singapore, Trump said in a letter to the North Korean leader: “Sadly, based on the tremendous anger and open hostility displayed in your most recent statement, I feel it would be inappropriate, at this time, to have this long- planned meeting.”

https://tinyurl.com/y7efpcz8

 

 

voice of the damned

If this stays kiboshed, what happens to all the nifty commemorative coins?

https://tinyurl.com/ya7uod87

 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

voice of the damned wrote:

If this stays kiboshed, what happens to all the nifty commemorative coins?

https://tinyurl.com/ya7uod87

According to Charlie Pierce: "However, we do have those commemorative medallions that already were struck, which likely will be the highest-priced items on whatever our future robot overlords have for an eBay."

NDPP

Trump Cancels June Summit With Kim (and vid)

https://on.rt.com/95zl

"You talk about nukes, but ours are massive..." - Trump

 

How John Bolton Sabotaged the North Korea Talks

https://t.co/Mhtc6VOn64

"The continuation of the Libya comparison was now a tactic to avoid the little prepared summit talks while blaming North Korea for the failure..."

WWWTT

Loss for the US, no one else! Trumps failure, and no one else!

Perhaps I shouldn’t be commenting on this just yet. Maybe this US/Trump failure needs time to reflect on and research. 

I really hope that all the other parties involved move on without the US st the table. Perhaps the US is playing like the big baby here and only playing like the big losers that they always were?

 

WWWTT

Watching the news station from Shanghai and they’re just repeating what we already know. The exception would be that they are stating that North Korea fully complied with Trumps demands implying Trump is the bad guy. 

Im wondering now if Trump is going to come back with further demands? And if so, how will the North now react/ reply?

NDPP

Former UK MP George Galloway on the Korea debacle:

https://youtu.be/9xJBy-Dxxm0

 

WWWTT

Thanks for this link NDPP. It looks like in the next few days we will only have other peoples opinions to listen to and mull over about this until one of the big players comes out with more. 

I'm going to comment now on your link.

I think that Galloway has a good opinion, very well thought out. However it is racist. The predominantly European US will not dictate when non Europeans will have peace or not. He overestimates the ability/influence the US has. He underestimates China. Does not even mention China. But perhaps with the time frame he is allowed, there is too much to cover and he's sticking with just the main attention grabber?

Either way, I'm pissed off! Also not happy there is next to nothing of substance of info!

NDPP

Canada Should Step Off the Belligerence Bus on the Korean Peninsula

https://buff.ly/2sj417V

"Repeat after me: Canada is seldom a force for good in the world..."

NDPP

CrossTalk Bullhorns: Flip-Flopping

https://youtu.be/kouno2SbhC4

"At the moment it is anyone's guess where the Korean negotiations stand. Again, Donald Trump is the wild card. Also, is the US isolating itself on the world stage?"

NDPP

Rambouillet Ruse? Why Trump Could Be Setting Up His North Korea Talks To Fail

https://on.rt.com/96wu

"What if Trump, far from wanting to reach a deal, is actually deliberately pushing a proposal which is supposed to be rejected?"

NDPP

The Assad-Kim Summit With Iran in the Background

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/06/06/the-assad-kim-summit-with-iran-i...

"...If through cunning or reason, Trump stumbles on a way towards peaceful Korean reunification, he may be stumbling towards disaster in Iran."

WWWTT

Ok so the historical meeting is back on for next week! Good news!

i heard one report that Kim Jong un was begging on his hands and knees to get the Singapore meeting back on. So to me that means that Trump was kicking himself in the ass for calling the meeting off prematurely and is desperate for this meeting to happen. 

Trump has made several references to North Korea as his focus so I’m inclined to believe that he’s going to make some serious concessions sacrifices deals to make some kind of substantial peace deal. 

Sorry NDPP, but I still don’t think Trump is a war pig. I believe he’s a greedy capitalist that wants to horde wealth. And a peace treaty with NK will open a lot of trade possibilities. 

WWWTT

Dp 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
And a peace treaty with NK will open a lot of trade possibilities.

Our food for your statues?  Or what do you feel DPRK has lots of to trade?

WWWTT

Thanks for asking for the clarification Mr. Magoo. 

I believe that the regained confidence of peace in the region will spread internationally. 

This will depend on how far the US goes. A pull out of troops from the peninsula could trigger a serious Change in US foreign policy strengthening confidence internationally overall. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

That wasn't really clarification.  I was asking what you think DPRK will trade.  What do they have that someone wants?

NDPP

John Bolton Wants No Deal With North Korea or Iran - But Is There Any Other Choice?

https://t.co/Lubwnmk30B

"US National Security Advisor John Bolton nearly succeeded in sabotaging talks with North Korea. But the summit train is back on its tracks..."

WWWTT

Mr. Magoo wrote:

That wasn't really clarification.  I was asking what you think DPRK will trade.  What do they have that someone wants?

Really? I find it odd a poster as yourself would ask such a question?

https://qz.com/1004330/north-korea-is-sitting-on-trillions-of-dollars-on...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Really? I find it odd a poster as yourself would ask such a question?

I guess I was asking because it seems like, even when their economy could have used the help, they weren't trading in all these valuable minerals.

Not with the U.S., of course, but not even with their established trading partners.  It's SUPER if they have the potential to offer something someone wants, but even your article seems to suggest that all the wealth is still buried in the ground.

Iron!  Woot!!

WWWTT

Some countries have done a lot more with a lot less. And I believe North Korea has played it’s cards right by leaving their wealth in the ground for the most part until they’re in a position to start developing their infrastructure and diversify their opportunities/abilities. 

This isn’t going to happen in a short time. But when the ball starts rolling I’m sure South Korea will be there signing blank checks. 

NDPP

Countdown to Historic Trump-Kim Meeting in Singapore

https://t.co/8FKCyYV1WJ

"US President and North Korea leader both met with Singaporean PM, while working-level talks continued between both sides..."

 

What to Expect at the Trump-Kim Summit

http://peaceinkoreanews.timshorrock.com/2018/06/11/what-to-expect-at-the...

"I get the feeling that Tuesday is going to go down as a historic day in US-Korea relations. More to come tomorrow."

NDPP

Historic Handshake: Kim, Trump Face Off at Singapore Summit (vid, photos)

https://on.rt.com/97d3

"We will have a great relationship, I have no doubt,' Trump said in a brief photo-op."

"Past practices and prejudices were obstacles on our way forward, but we overcame all of them and are here today,' Kim said.

"That's true,' quipped Trump."

NDPP

US Intelligence...

"Dennis Rodman...is our best resource right now to understand Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump..."

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1006354287772028928

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

US Intelligence...

"Dennis Rodman...is our best resource right now to understand Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump..."

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1006354287772028928

Well, to be truthful, it was the CNN guy, not Clapper, who made the statement about "our best resource". 

Dennis Rodman worked with Trump on a TV show, and is a long-time friend of KJU. There probably aren't that many people who know both men as well as Rodman does, AND were available to speak to CNN.

 

NDPP

Trump Announces Freeze on US Military Drills with South Korea After Summit With Kim

https://on.rt.com/97dn

"The US will halt military drills with South Korea while negotiations between Washington and Pyongyang continue, Donald Trump told the press after meeting with the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un. Trump said Kim Jong-un accepted his invitation to the White House..."

 

Hotels, Beaches and Boats: Overly Dramatic VIDEO for Kim Shows Trump's Vision of Nuke-Free North Korea

https://on.rt.com/97ep

"A bizarre video presentation for Kim saw Trump assume a role he knows well: the braggadocious real estate mogul. 'You could have the best hotels in the world. Think of it from a real estate perspective'..."

Included in the video of the Trump Korea presser, is Trump on Trudeau and US trade @ 57:30

NDPP

First Thoughts on the Kim-Trump Photo Op

https://t.co/19aiCGpJJw

"This is not a deal, just a declaration. This is the 'freeze-for-freeze' which North Korea long wanted and which China and Russia actively supported. It is disappointing that the terrible human-rights record of the United States was not mentioned..."

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Pompeo in Pyongyang

quote:

It would be no exaggeration to say that Pompeo is completely unlike any secretary of state in American history. He came to power by following the marching orders of the multi-billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch and who has no interest in the concerns of anyone other than a tiny handful of wealthy patrons.

The official record says he visited North Korea twice this year, once as director of the CIA and again recently as secretary of state. He took along government officials to engage in discussions concerning North Korea's denuclearization plans and met at length with Chairman Kim Jong-un and Vice-chairman Kim Yong-chol.

Considering the amount of disinformation that comes out of the Trump White House, and the abuse of top-secret and classified status, there is no reason to believe that there were only two trips, or that the group was limited to government officials.

As analysts do not hesitate to imagine fantastic scenarios in which North Korea launches a preemptive nuclear strikes on South Korea and the United States, which are not supported by any evidence, and make no sense, please allow me to indulge my imagination.

The plane to Pyongyang probably had representatives from Koch Industries determined to sign exclusive contracts with North Korea for the exploitation of natural resources. North Korea holds extensive deposits of coal, uranium, iron, gold, magnesite, zinc, copper, limestone and rare earth metals (required in the electronics industry) that are worth, according to the South Korean mining company Korea Resources, around $6 trillion. Even if the total accessible is less than this, the value of strip mining North Korea is not negligible.

The plane may have contained representatives of firms interested in obtaining exclusive contracts to build infrastructure in North Korea, and firms that wish to nail down exclusive market access for imported U.S. agricultural products.

One thing we can be sure of: Pompeo did not discuss non-proliferation in any serious manner in his meetings with Kim Jong-un in Pyongyang.

Pompeo knows nothing about the technical and demanding process of enforcing non-proliferation agreements and negotiating diplomatic treaties. He spent years working to undermine the nuclear agreement with Iran in congress for blatantly fraudulent reasons.

voice of the damned

The plane may have contained representatives of firms interested in obtaining exclusive contracts to build infrastructure in North Korea, and firms that wish to nail down exclusive market access for imported U.S. agricultural products.

One thing we can be sure of: Pompeo did not discuss non-proliferation in any serious manner in his meetings with Kim Jong-un in Pyongyang.

Pompeo knows nothing about the technical and demanding process of enforcing non-proliferation agreements and negotiating diplomatic treaties. He spent years working to undermine the nuclear agreement with Iran in congress for blatantly fraudulent reasons.

So if Pompeo didn't discuss "non-proliferation in any serious manner", the only logical conclusion is that he discussed business contracts for infrastructure and agriculture? Bit of a false dilemna, I'd say.

I doubt the American ping-pong team that went to China before Nixon's visit discused any serious geopolitical issues either. That doesn't tell us what they DID discuss.

And when are these businessmen expecting to get their contracts fulfilled? As I recall, the most substantial issues in the Kim-Trump communique were to do with nukes and the remains of dead soldiers. Nothing about opening up the North Korean economy within the next year.

And how does the writer know that Pompeo knows nothing about nuclear issues anyway? According to the writer himself...

Pompeo knows nothing about the technical and demanding process of enforcing non-proliferation agreements and negotiating diplomatic treaties. He spent years working to undermine the nuclear agreement with Iran in congress for blatantly fraudulent reasons.

So, going by the last sentence, he probably DOES know something about nuclear issues(even if we disagree with the actions he took on Iran).

 

 

NDPP

CrossTalk: Trump-Kim Tango (and vid)

https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/429556-trump-kim-summit-meeting/

"What about substance? CrossTalking with Gareth Porter and Barbara Huang..."

voice of the damned

Moon Jae-in's party swept the local elections yesterday. General analysis is that the Singapore Summit and its perceived success came at a very opportune time for him.

NDPP

Galloway: Singapore Slings & Arrows: How Donald Trump Confounded His Enemies

https://on.rt.com/97he

"...When, two years ago, I coined the phrase 'I'm not happy Donald Trump is president, but I'm very happy indeed that Hillary Clinton isn't,' it was days like this I had in mind. Clinton never could nor ever would have crossed the bridge of peace in North-East Asia..."

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

Galloway: Singapore Slings & Arrows: How Donald Trump Confounded His Enemies

https://on.rt.com/97he

"...When, two years ago, I coined the phrase 'I'm not happy Donald Trump is president, but I'm very happy indeed that Hillary Clinton isn't,' it was days like this I had in mind. Clinton never could nor ever would have crossed the bridge of peace in North-East Asia..."

He is giving Trump a lot more credit for intentions than we have any evidence for.

voice of the damned

I basically agree with Galloway that this summit has been a good thing, and I have to say, it's a little amusing to hear Trump's liberal opponents moralizing about his "shaking hands with a monstrous dictator", in tones reminiscent of that decided reactionary William F. Buckley getting into weepy indignation about Nixon toasting Mao's health.

However...

And for Trump's deepest state enemies this is the greatest threat of them all. After all, if you can broker peace with Korea why not with Russia? Why not with Iran?

Trump is a highly erratic individual, and I don't think the fact that he's done something constructive on Korea signifies much about what he'll do in regards to any other conflict. His record so far would seem to indicate that he has little or no interest in pursuing cordial relations with Iran, for examaple, despite what Galloway presents as the worst nightmare of the "deep state".

AFAIK, both "Fuck Iran" and "Meet with Kim Jong-un" were part of what Trump was preaching on the campaign trail. So there's been a consistency on both tracks here, and we probably shouldn't conclude that the latter policy would mean a reversal of the former.

 

 

voice of the damned

And where Galloway REALLY jumps the shark...

Liberal democrats advocated (as well as a super-hawkish stance towards Moscow) a posture of war towards China and the doubling down of America's failed security investment in Taiwan.

Liberals were aghast at the sight of a US president cavorting with men in Mao suits, then as well as now. This is rewarding "dictatorship" they cried, then as now. What about "human rights"they asked, then as now.

He talks about liberal Democrats opposing the policies of Trump, and links to Breitbart as an example of this opposition?! There is no way on God's green earth that Breitbart qaulifies for any current definition of liberal or Democratic, even allowing for the more rightward slant of US politics.

And while I have no memories of Nixon's trip to China, was it really that widely opposed by liberal Democrats? The impression I've always got is that the bulk of the opposition was coming from people to the right of Nixon, not from Ted Kennedy or George McGovern.

Sean in Ottawa

I want to say as shocking as it is that it was no more realistically probably that Trump would actually do something here than Clinton. I think neither is so inclined and neither have the kind of global awareness to even allow this to happen.

A less aggressive, less power hungry US administration might have left room for the Korea's to get there.

That said, given how bad things were, Trump's desire to be different (in order to be great) may lead him to be incompetent enough as an imperialist that there could be some room for something else. The need to get US troops away from South Korea and to stop war games, I consider to be a crucial first step -- even if taken for all the wrong reasons.

NDPP

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/HH-vUgLGo20

"Maddow's crazy conspiracy theory about peace in North Korea."

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/HH-vUgLGo20

"Maddow's crazy conspiracy theory about peace in North Korea."

I agree Trump's DPRK policy is not likely being directed by Moscow. As it stands right now, it probably IS the policy that Moscow would prefer, but by that logic, you could just as easily argue that it's being directed by Seoul, since Moon Jae-in is probably in broad agreement with it as well.

WWWTT

Ok so the US/SK war games are over. Take special note of explanation Trump gives to support ending the war games!!!

There are two. Too expensive and the other is an admission that the war games are too provocative towards North Korea therefore inappropriate 

To me, it sounds like Trump is moving towards pullout of US troops in South Korea! Kim Jong un will probably get rid of nukes and stop the missle testing. 

This will be immediately followed by complete sanctions elimination and trade deals etc etc

Simultaneously the leadership in the south will be pushing the peace treaty. Followed by reunification of Korea, possibly a rough timeline with notable milestones?

This success will put unbearable pressure onto Israel’s negative relationship towards Iran and it’s influence on the US to take a hostile position towards Iran. 

It will also put extreme scrutiny onto expat Cubans in the US that wish to continue the same hostile policy towards Cuba. 

Hopefully both these parasitic groups will be viewed for what they really are!

NDPP

North Korea Will Only Denuclearize if there is a Peace Treaty Says Antiwar Organizer

https://youtu.be/howjM11YNJs

Brian Becker, US ANSWER Coalition

 

Military Industrial Complex Fears Trump North Korea Policy

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/49652.htm

"Senators move to prevent Trump from removing troops from South Korea..."

voice of the damned

This was somewhat amusing...

https://tinyurl.com/y7p44d6o

It broadly reminds me of MacArthur refusing to salute Truman during the Korean War.

At first, I thought Trump might have planned the salute in advance, knowing that the North Koreans had previously used footage of Carter shaking hands with Kim Il Sung in their state propaganda. Though apparently the North Korean general initiated the arm-raisings.

 

 

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

North Korea Will Only Denuclearize if there is a Peace Treaty Says Antiwar Organizer

https://youtu.be/howjM11YNJs

Brian Becker, US ANSWER Coalition

 

Military Industrial Complex Fears Trump North Korea Policy

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/49652.htm

"Senators move to prevent Trump from removing troops from South Korea..."

That article is from ABC News, but Information Clearing House added their own, somewhat misleading headline. The actual wording of the article...

The new legislation, from Sens. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., and Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill., would prevent Trump from withdrawing troops from South Korea unless the secretary of defense says it’s in the interest of national security and that it would not undermine the security of allies in the region.

 

NDPP

TRNN: Koreans Want Peace, Do Liberal Pundits Want War? (and vid)

https://t.co/cpzcVkbDGF

"In decrying the Singapore summit and Trump's freeze on US military exercises, liberal pundits are ignoring public opinions and years of peace activism in South Korea, says Christine Ahn of Women Cross DMZ."

NDPP

The Key Word in the Trump-Kim Show

http://www.atimes.com/article/the-key-word-in-the-trump-kim-show/

"...This logical sequence of the Sino-Russian roadmap is based on what South Korean President Moon Jae-un agreed with Kim Jong-un at the inter-Korean summit last April. And that ties in with what North Korea, South Korea and Russia had already discussed at the Far East summit in Vladivostok last September, as Asia Times reported; economic integration between Russia and the two Koreas, including the crucial connectivity of a future Trans-Korean railway with the Trans-Siberian.

Once again, this is all about Eurasia integration, increased trade between North Korea and Northeast China, concerning mostly Liaoning, Jilin and Heilongjiang provinces, and total, physical connectivity of both Koreas to the Eurasian heartland.

By reaffirming the Panmunjom Declaration, the US President has committed to bringing its military back from South Korea and thus a complete denuclearization of the South as well as the North."

voice of the damned

Ulchi Freedom Guardian suspended...

https://tinyurl.com/y7nqfra7

As a side note, THESE wargames are still going ahead...

https://tinyurl.com/y7c35n4t

 

 

 

voice of the damned

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is something oddly refreshing about the way Trump expresses himself...

In his Twitter message, the US president said the joint military exercises "can start up immediately if talks break down, which I hope will not happen."

Trump made similar remarks on Friday, telling reporters at the White House that it was his offer to halt the drills.

"I call them 'war games.' I hated them from the day I came in ... We pay millions and millions of dollars for planes, and all of this," he said at the time.

Leaving aside the question as to why he hadn't canceled them earlier if he's so against them(answer: he wanted them as a bargaining chip), it's almost certainly unprecedented for a POTUS, or indeed any world leader, to say that he "hates" actions that are carried out as regular policy by his own military. The normal polite thing would be to say "Well, we've reassessed the situation, and determined that the exercises are less than optimum in terms of the geostrategic goals we're trying to advance at the present time."

https://tinyurl.com/y8feyu78

voice of the damned

Cumings on Trump: “In his own madness, he brings innocent eyes to the Korean situation.”

https://tinyurl.com/yb3dr5ow

(I believe Cumings has been cited elsewhere on this thread. He's probably the most left-wing western historian of the Korean War and ensuing events. The Hankyoreh is the most left-wing of the Korean dailies.)

 

WWWTT

The canceled war games are all over CCTV4! The media in China is claiming that China-DPRK strategic communication is what led to the Korean Peninsula peace process. And Xi JinPing was central and or a catalyst. 

Im going to have to agree with CCTV4 assessment. China is in the best position of all the 6 major players to push this historic development through. 

When the Berlin Wall came down it signaled the end of the Soviet empire, I believe this Korean peace process and the upcoming reunification will be signaling the end of the US empire!

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