North Korea

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kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Curious that the RT story has nothing about the ASEAN meeting, which happened April 26-28, nor any of its members.

Here is what they said about the situation in North Korea:

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/asean-foreign-ministers-...

Here is what the RT story said about the letter and North Kores'a contact with ASEAN. Go flog another dead horse 6079

Pyongyang penned the letter just ahead of the 30th Asean Summit taking place in Manila on April 26-28 in which it also justified its effort to develop its own nuclear arsenal as the only means of a deterrent against the United States.

North Korea’s chief diplomat urged the ASEAN chief to inform the 10-nation organization's foreign ministers “about the grave situation” and to develop a “proper proposal” on how to preserve peace on the Peninsula.

“I express my expectations that ASEAN which attaches great importance to the regional peace and stability will make an issue of the US-South Korean joint military exercises at ASEAN conferences from the fair position and play an active role in safeguarding the peace and safety of Korean Peninsula,” Ri Yong-ho wrote.

This is not the first time that Pyongyang has sent a letter to the 10-member regional body of which North Korea is not a member. The official North Korean news agency, KCNA, reported that its foreign ministry sent a dispatch to the ASEAN Secretariat on April 4, in which they also addressed the issue of the war games being conducted by the US and South Korea.

 

 

6079_Smith_W

The story I posted was also published on the 28th.  And if you think I am pointing out a major omission in the RT piece (last edited this afternoon) you are right.

No coverage from the three-day conference. Not even an attempt to contact a representative from the association chair - Vietham - or any diplomats from the nations in question.

When you consider that that the information coming out from the conference is starkly different from the spin in the RT piece  it is a significant difference.

Here is where they were at two days ago:

http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/ASEAN-co...

And there is already some background from past meetings on where member states stand on the conflict: http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2017/04/27/asean-to-address-usnort...

Unfortunately they bring in points which are not quite so one-sided.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Unfortunately they bring in points which are not quite so one-sided.

True they have different info in the piece. I love the show of democracy that surrounds the ASEAN meetings. Sort of like a G8 Summit in Toronto but with more security. 

The Philippines, which is the current Asean chair, is going all out to ensure the 30th Asean Summit runs smoothly. Its chairmanship also coincides with Asean’s 50th anniversary this year.

Its military and police have assured there are no security threats directed at the summit and have deployed more than 40,000 security personnel.

“We don’t see any threat right now, but our planning is always based on worst case scenarios,” Armed Forces of the Philippines spokesman Brig Gen Restituto Padilla told a media briefing.

Read more at http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2017/04/27/asean-to-address-usnort...

6079_Smith_W

Ah, I meant secretary general. Thanks k. In any case, Le Luong Minh of Vietnam is the spokesperson for the association. And in fact one of those pieces mentions U.S. pressure on the Phillipines, and its role in the North Korean conflict. Thing is, it also mentions North Korea's failure to comply with UN resolutions, ASEAN's past condemnation of NK nuclear tests, and their call for them to return to disarmament negotiations.

It isn;t surprising that media from major powers ignore local governments and associations. U.S. media does it all the time. But it is very odd to have an article about one of those associations have virtually no information on what they have actually done or said.

Or, in fact, their de facto response to that letter from North Korea.

Though my point is that considering the slant of that article, it isn't really that odd or surprising that central information was left out.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte is currently the rotating Chair of ASEAN itself, of which the Secretariat is a subordinate group.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

6079 you post slanted articles all the time. The CBC is continually writing slanted articles, you know like major pieces premissed on the fake news that the Syrian government used chemical weapons. As for the NY Times and Washington Post if you can't tell they are at least as slanted as any media from a non-NATO country thats your problem not mine.

In this day and age the quesstion is not whether most journalism is slanted but whether or not one gets sucked in by the dominant propaganda machine in our midst.

6079_Smith_W

Sure. I just said that western media often leave out pertinant information, especially when it comes to the interests of smaller nations.

In this thread however, I am talking about this article, and the point that it uses ASEAN as a foil while not bothering to interview anyone from the organization,  completely ignoring that they have taken positions which include urging North Korea to comply with U.N resolutions and come back to the table for disarmament talks.

Here's Secretary Le pointing that out, and that they are continuing to discuss it today, although they have already released a draught resolution to the media(it is Saturday morning in Manila).

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/asean-s-position-on-nort...

RT is supposed to be a better alternative to the imperialists? Seems like same old, if the only parties they care about are Japan, Russia and China, even in a story which concerns the other states in the region, and completely ignores what they are saying.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

FWIW, while I was never convinced that Obama had Pyongyang in his sights, The Donald's jingo is a bit worrisome.  He seems to have found a bone he likes.

On the flip side, though, I also find it telling that any military exercises by SK or the US are characterized as "war games" and assumed to be irresponsible provocation rather than standard military training.  But any military exercises by DPRK -- including nuclear detonations and missile launches -- are assumed to be standard military training rather than irresponsible provocation.

NorthReport

Smith & Magoo - good comments.

Rev Pesky

From Mr. Magoo:

On the flip side, though, I also find it telling that any military exercises by SK or the US are characterized as "war games" and assumed to be irresponsible provocation rather than standard military training.  But any military exercises by DPRK -- including nuclear detonations and missile launches -- are assumed to be standard military training rather than irresponsible provocation.

​There is one major difference between the USA and North Korea. That is, it is the USA 'exercising' on the Korean peninsula, not the North Koreans 'exercising on the Baja peninsula. I suspect the USA view of North Korea engaging in war games on Baja peninsula would not be viewed with favour, or even equanimity.

NDPP

N. Korean Ballistic Missile Fails Minutes After Launch - S Korea & US Militaries

https://on.rt.com/8a8r

"Pyongyang has test-fired a ballistic missile that appears to have exploded within minutes after launch and never actually left North Korean airspace, according to the US Pacific Command and South Korean Joint Chiefs of Staff. The reported launch comes amid rising tensions in the region and a US military buildup in response to the North Korean 'nuclear threat.'"

 

How US Bio-Weapons Led To Torture...And North Korean Nukes

https://t.co/KQgke24uft

"...Considering the historical record of the US committing and covering up warcrimes as well as its general belligerence, North Korea and other nations are probably well advised to stick to their nuclear and missile programs."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

It's a shame that the two Koreas have just that one little peninsula to share.  But is there some meaningful difference between this, and when both sides were more actively at war and China and the USSR chose to be "good neighbours" to North Korea and help them out with actual troops and planes and pilots and guns and suchlike?  Can't imagine that South Korea liked that any more in 1952 than DPRK likes seeing training exercises in 2017.

My point was only that both sides seem to conduct regular training exercises, but somehow when one side does it it's training exercises and when the other does it it's, as you say "games".

Here's my thinking:  DPRK needs to tweak the bully's nose in order to appear "tough" and "take charge" and retain domestic control.  If they focused all of their resources on, say, feeding the people and building productivity and so on then pretty soon people would be demanding free elections and getting Twitter accounts instead of practicing air raid drills and singing songs about their saviour-heros. 

And how does that promote Juche?  What would become of the Kim dynasty in better times??

NDPP

CrossTalk: North Korea Saga

https://youtu.be/j-gjDtQ8OeY

"We have heard it all before - all options are on the table. What is missing is diplomacy."

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

 

This Is The Tank North Korea Fears It Might Someday Have to Fight

And here it is again.

This tank, the K2, and its K1 predecessor, is in fact one of the “real” reasons NK wants, well no, really needs nukes... I know allot of you guys here don’t want to hear about this again, but NK’s ability to seriously threaten South Korea with a conventional force invasion and win it is over.

That is want is driving allot of this now. They need a better hand...

Aside from its massive (and bad assed) Special Forces “army” and it’s dug in heavy artillery the truth is most of NK’s military branches are now lacking in 21st century modernization and as a result of this are now out classed by its South Korean counter parts.

I’m going to be honest with you guys; I hate the media coverage of this event... I find it fear mongering and technically inaccurate as to NK’s real military abilities. It’s all bullshit and it’s leading us to war.

The bottom line is this: South Korea can now out wait North Korea in a conventional war standoff. This tank is one of the reasons why... not that I ve been trying to say that this whole time.

6079_Smith_W

What is missing is diplomacy?

North Korea decided to skip the UN meeting even though special arrangements were made for them to attend.

voice of the damned

Magoo wrote:

It's a shame that the two Koreas have just that one little peninsula to share.  But is there some meaningful difference between this, and when both sides were more actively at war and China and the USSR chose to be "good neighbours" to North Korea and help them out with actual troops and planes and pilots and guns and suchlike?  Can't imagine that South Korea liked that any more in 1952 than DPRK likes seeing training exercises in 2017.

Well, Russia and even moreso China do actually border on North Korea, so arguably they had a direct regional interest in assisting the North. Though, from what is now known, Kim Il Sung had to beg and plead with a very reluctant Stalin to get Soviet support for attacking the South(even if one subscribes to the Cumings thesis, it remains the case that the North was also planning for its own attack).

http://www.alternativeinsight.com/Korean_War.html

 

voice of the damned

And now I see where Trump is saying he wants the ROK to pay a billion for THAAD, an item of already debatable popularity in the South. For all practical purposes, this constitutes a threat(credible or otherwise) to halt implementation of THAAD unless the US gets its money.

Similarly extortionistic rhetoric from Trump around the USFK was probably a contributing factor in getting the North Korean regime to endorse him in 2016, so I have to wonder what sort of game he's playing this time around.

I'm guessing most likely it's not much of a game at all, but that Trump is simply one of those true-believers who thinks the American military is a global humanitarian operation, and "If they don't appreciate all that we're doing for them, well, why don't we just go home and let them get slaughtered?" Not the most realistic assesssment of things, but not an uncommon one, either.

 

6079_Smith_W

Personally, I think he learned from the Syrian thing that it is a good distraction.

voice of the damned

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

 

This Is The Tank North Korea Fears It Might Someday Have to Fight

And here it is again.

This tank, the K2, and its K1 predecessor, is in fact one of the “real” reasons NK wants, well no, really needs nukes... I know allot of you guys here don’t want to hear about this again, but NK’s ability to seriously threaten South Korea with a conventional force invasion and win it is over.

That is want is driving allot of this now. They need a better hand...

Aside from its massive (and bad assed) Special Forces “army” and it’s dug in heavy artillery the truth is most of NK’s military branches are now lacking in 21st century modernization and as a result of this are now out classed by its South Korean counter parts.

I’m going to be honest with you guys; I hate the media coverage of this event... I find it fear mongering and technically inaccurate as to NK’s real military abilities. It’s all bullshit and it’s leading us to war.

The bottom line is this: South Korea can now out wait North Korea in a conventional war standoff. This tank is one of the reasons why... not that I ve been trying to say that this whole time.

So, if your assessement of the DPRK's military prowess is correct, would you agree with the idea that the main purpose of THAAD is to counter China, not North Korea?

6079_Smith_W

But bec, they have enough artillery within range of Seoul to reduce it to rubble.

And I don't see the alleged shield having any relation to China. It will only allegedly protect that region, and I don't see how China would have any designs on the rest of the penninsula. They want stability there.

voice of the damned

6079_Smith_W wrote:

But bec, they have enough artillery within range of Seoul to reduce it to rubble.

And I don't see the alleged shield having any relation to China. It will only allegedly protect that region, and I don't see how China would have any designs on the rest of the penninsula. They want stability there.

Well, if I'm reading China's objections correctly(terminology is not my strong suit), they seem to think that THAAD can be used to spy on them...

The decision is the latest move to squeeze the increasingly isolated North Korea, but China worries the system's radar will be able to track its military capabilities.

http://tinyurl.com/hm6tv9y

 

 

 

 

NDPP

US Provocation and North Korea: Pretext For War With China

http://www.unz.com/jpetras/us-provocation-and-north-korea-pretext-for-wa...

"Ultimately, Washington intends to target China. It installed its (misnamed) Terminal High Altitude Area Defense System (THAAD) in South Korea. An offensive surveillance and attack system designed to target China's major cities and complement the US maritime encirclement of China and Russia.

Using North Korea as a pretext, THAAD was installed in South Korea with the capacity to reach the Chinese heartland in minutes. Its range covers 3,000 kilometers of China's land mass. THAAD directed missiles are specifically designed to identify and destroy China's defensive missile capacity.

With the THAAD installation in South Korea, Russia's Far East is now encircled by the US offensive missiles to complement the build-up in the West..."

 

Canada Planning For War With North Korea

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/04/29/cank-a29.html

"The Liberals' Korea policy underscores once again the essential continuity between the Harper Conservatives and the Trudeau Liberals in ruthlessly asserting Canadian imperialism's global geopolitical interests."

Which are primarily the support of Washington's...

6079_Smith_W

@ VOTD

Gotcha. What I meant was it would not be effective against all of China.

As for notions expressed in this thread that that is Trump's intent, I guess my first question is whether you honestly believe he has been pretending to not be able to speak in full sentences, and handing invoices to other NATO members as a cover for this world domination plot.

And then, despite the obvious seriousness and danger of this situation, I have to ask if this might better belong in the "Is the U.S. planning to immediately invade.... " thread. You know, the one that has been a running gag for a few years now.

 

NDPP

No To US Missile Defense In Korea!

http://stopthaad.org

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..it's the us that needs to be contained. this doesn't seem to be the project in the un. in fact you could say the un does the us bidding more often than not. so where is the solution to this being discussed in relationship to north korea?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
No To US Missile Defense In Korea!

Suggesting that missile defense (by SK and its ally the U.S.) is in fact OFFENSE, and that the development and testing of OFFENSIVE missile capabilities by DPRK is in fact defense is absurdly backward.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

voice of the damned wrote:

6079_Smith_W wrote:

But bec, they have enough artillery within range of Seoul to reduce it to rubble.

And I don't see the alleged shield having any relation to China. It will only allegedly protect that region, and I don't see how China would have any designs on the rest of the penninsula. They want stability there.

Well, if I'm reading China's objections correctly(terminology is not my strong suit), they seem to think that THAAD can be used to spy on them...

The decision is the latest move to squeeze the increasingly isolated North Korea, but China worries the system's radar will be able to track its military capabilities.

[/quote]

This is a correct; along with being able to see allot of what China’s air and missle units are currently doing the Chinese are also worried the THADD's radar would tip the USA off on any preemptive Chinese action should they feel military action is inevitable (over the South China Sea).

Here’s why: One of their now high ranking officials in his early years as a navy officer, I forget if he’s now the head of the navy or on the top military committee, had written a paper on how China would have to fight the USA should the need arise. The keystone to such a plan was that China would have to hit the regional USA forces with a massive (surprise) missile and air attack to disable their ability to react to Chinese forces in the region. It makes sense really; they would have to take down the USA really fast. THADD’s radar would make such an attack much less likely to take the US forces by surprise and that kind of puts a big dent in that plan.  

@ Smith: Also the NK artillery aimed at Seoul is a bit of a red herring. Read this article...

Could North Korea Annihilate Seoul with Its Artillery?

N. Korean artillery has little value: high-profile defector  

Seoul to deploy new radar system to detect North Korean long-range artillery

Note you need to register with the news site on the last two links but it stilll shows NK artillery is not 10 feet tall.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

voice of the damned wrote:

So, if your assessement of the DPRK's military prowess is correct, would you agree with the idea that the main purpose of THAAD is to counter China, not North Korea?

I'd say both with NK getting about 70% the credit and giving the USA the ultimate excuse to deploy it in SK... China should have the ass at NK.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
I'd say both with NK getting about 70% the credit and giving the USA the ultimate excuse to deploy it in SK... China should have the ass at NK.

Certainly DPRK seems very intent on tweaking everyone's nose about their nuclear might.  When they go so far out of their way to brag about the size of their PlutoniumPenis and how they can ignite a Righteous Fireball Of The People over the continental U.S. or Seoul, some kind of defense doesn't seem all that unreasonable.

But I do wonder why it is that DPRK needs nukes if SK has none.  Sure, SK's ally the U.S. has plenty of them, and I would assume that's why SK doesn't really need its own.  But DPRK's ally China also has them.  So why does DPRK need its own?

Is it because China might be unwilling to turn Los Angeles into a pothole if the U.S. calls Kim a spoiled child one more time?  Or what's THEIR special need for their own nukes if their own huge ally has them?

Here's a thought:  if DPRK stops with the nuclear build-up, then if the U.S. STILL insists on THAAD then it should be clear to all that it's about China.  But I agree, Bec.  As long as DPRK maintains the jingo, it's hard to make a reasonable argument for why anyone should ignore them.

voice of the damned

Andrei Lankov, a Russian-born academic who lived and studied in the DPRK during the Soviet years(though is not currently well-diposed to the regime), has a recent piece analyzing the regime's motivations...

http://tinyurl.com/zo8zqmr

Basically argues that the desired nukes are to ward off a possible American attack.

And, yes, they probably can't count on China to defend them with nukes, since the whole point of propping up the DPRK is to prevent the emergence of a unified Korea allied to the US with American troops on China's border. If China  fires a nuclear weapon at the USA, they're giving themselves a thousand times the "difficulties" they were trying to prevent by supporting North Korea in the first place.

Lankov also says that the North Koreans are making Deng-style market reforms to their economy.

 

 

voice of the damned

6079_Smith_W wrote:

@ VOTD

 

As for notions expressed in this thread that that is Trump's intent, I guess my first question is whether you honestly believe he has been pretending to not be able to speak in full sentences, and handing invoices to other NATO members as a cover for this world domination plot.

 

 

The "deep state"(to go with the trendy misusage) has apparently now informed the South Korean government that the original payment scheme for THAAD will stand. Apparently, this was all just another case of Trump wondering aloud about why the US doesn't do this, that, or the other thing.

Though the Democratic party(Moon Jae-in's group, ahead in the polls) is promising to hold an inquiry as to whether or not the previous Park administration negotiated a secret payment schedule along the lines of what Trump has now suggested. As you imply, this might be equivalent to Corbyn demanding to know whether Teresa May agreed to pay Trump's invoice.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170430000236

 

 

NDPP

America's New Nuclear Missile Endangers The World  -  by Conn Hallinan

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/04/28/americas-new-nuclear-missile-enda...

"At a time of growing tensions between nuclear powers - Russia and NATO in Europe, and the US, North Korea and China in Asia - Washington has quietly upgraded its nuclear weapons arsenal to create, according to three leading American scientists, 'exactly what one would expect to see, if a nuclear-armed state were planning to have the capacity to fight and win a nuclear war by disarming enemies with a surprise first strike..."

"A Lot of What You Know About N Korea is Racist Bullshit'

https://www.newcoldwar.org/danger-u-s-nuclear-attack-korea/

"If North Korea is 'crazy' for its militarism, then the US is downright certifiable. And any claims of a direct North Korean threat to the United States is ludicrous bullshit. It's not the North Koreans who have betrayed past agreements, but the United States.

'Less than three months into President Donald Trump's reign, we can already say that there is a non-trivial chance that the US will soon be engaged in a nuclear war..."

NDPP

China Demands 'Immediate' Halt to THAAD Deployment in South Korea

https://on.rt.com/8ah8

"We oppose the deployment of the US missile system to South Korea and call on all parties to immediately stop this process. We are ready to take necessary measures to protect our interests..."

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..good info in this real news interview

U.S. Incoherence, THAAD Missile System Disrupt the Korean Peninsula

Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell, says the Trump administration's mixed messages on North Korea and the new THAAD missile system are sowing confusion in the Korean Peninsula ahead of a crucial South Korean vote

Rev Pesky

From Mr. Magoo:

...But I do wonder why it is that DPRK needs nukes if SK has none.  Sure, SK's ally the U.S. has plenty of them, and I would assume that's why SK doesn't really need its own.  But DPRK's ally China also has them.  So why does DPRK need its own?

One might ask why Israel needs it's own 'PlutoniumPenis', as you call it. Certainly no more necessary for Israel than for North Korea.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

This Is What’s Really Behind North Korea’s Nuclear Provocations

quote:

As I wrote for this magazine in January 2016, the North Koreans must be astonished to discover that US leaders never seem to grasp the import of their history-related provocations. Even more infuriating is Washington’s implacable refusal ever to investigate our 72-year history of conflict with the North; all of our media appear to live in an eternal present, with each new crisis treated as sui generis. Visiting Seoul in March, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson asserted that North Korea has a history of violating one agreement after another; in fact, President Bill Clinton got it to freeze its plutonium production for eight years (1994–2002) and, in October 2000, had indirectly worked out a deal to buy all of its medium- and long-range missiles. Clinton also signed an agreement with Gen. Jo Myong-rok stating that henceforth, neither country would bear “hostile intent” toward the other.

The Bush administration promptly ignored both agreements and set out to destroy the 1994 freeze. Bush’s invasion of Iraq is rightly seen as a world-historical catastrophe, but next in line would be placing North Korea in his “axis of evil” and, in September 2002, announcing his “preemptive” doctrine directed at Iraq and North Korea, among others. The simple fact is that Pyongyang would have no nuclear weapons if Clinton’s agreements had been sustained.

Now comes Donald Trump, blasting into a Beltway milieu where, in recent months, a bipartisan consensus has emerged based on the false assumption that all previous attempts to rein in the North’s nuclear program have failed, so it may be time to use force—to destroy its missiles or topple the regime. Last September, the centrist Council on Foreign Relations issued a report stating that “more assertive military and political actions” should be considered, “including those that directly threaten the existence of the [North Korean] regime.” Tillerson warned of preemptive action on his recent East Asia trip, and a former Obama-administration official, Antony Blinken, wrote in The New York Times that a “priority” for the Trump administration should be working with China and South Korea to “secure the North’s nuclear arsenal” in the event of “regime change.” But North Korea reportedly has some 15,000 underground facilities of a national-security nature. It is insane to imagine the Marines traipsing around the country in such a “search and secure” operation, and yet the Bush and Obama administrations had plans to do just that. Obama also ran a highly secret cyber-war against the North for years, seeking to infect and disrupt its missile program. If North Korea did that to us, it might well be considered an act of war.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

which is the sillier haircut tho?

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

South Korea’s Likely Next President Warns US Not to Meddle in Nation’s Democracy

Polling shows Democratic Party Korea candidate Moon Jae-in as an overwhelming front-runner in the upcoming presidential vote, with more than double the support of any other candidate. He is, however, seen as far from idea from the US perspective, favoring diplomacy with North Korea as he does.

The split between Moon and Trump is so dramatic, in fact, that Moon has felt the need to publicly warn the US against “meddling” in the nation’s politics, not just directly in the election itself, but also with policy decisions made in the lead-up to the election.

Indeed, Moon and his allies warn that the biggest problem is the US rushing through measures in the lame-duck government ahead of the election, noting that agreements on things like the THAAD anti-missile system, and then hastily putting the system in place before any public hearings or environmental assessments were allowed to take place....

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..from the link in the middle of the last post

South Korea’s likely next president asks the U.S. to respect its democracy

quote:

With Moon pledging to review the Park government’s decision to deploy the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) antimissile system, the U.S. military has acted swiftly to get it up and running. This has sparked widespread criticism here that the United States is trying to make it difficult, if not impossible, for Moon to reverse it. 

The final components for THAAD were taken to the site in the middle of the night last week, triggering protests, and the system became operational Monday. It is designed to shoot down North Korean missiles, but many in South Korea fear it will make them more of a target.

“It is not desirable for the [caretaker] South Korean government to deploy THAAD hastily at this politically sensitive time, with the presidential election approaching, and without going through the democratic process, an environmental assessment or a public hearing,” said Moon, sitting on the floor in a Korean restaurant after an evening rally in Seongnam, south of Seoul.

“Would it happen this way in the United States? Could the administration make a unilateral decision without following democratic procedures, without ratification or agreement by Congress?” 

Privately, Moon aides say they are “furious” about what they see as the expedited installation of THAAD. U.S. Forces Korea said the deployment is in line with plans to have the system operational as soon as possible.

voice of the damned

Isolationism is always a double-edged sword. From Antiwar's current article charmingly entitled "Why Defend South Korean Ingrates?"...

 If the leaders of South Korea are worried about preserving their sovereignty, then why won’t they defend it – and shell out the necessary cash? If Moon Jae-in is so opposed to THAAD, then why must we impose it on him? It’s high time we cut these ingrates loose.

Unlike the colonial empires of the past, which extracted wealth in the form of raw materials from their satraps, the American imperium is a Bizarro World version of this arrangement: in exchange for allowing us to occupy their territory, and dictating their foreign policy, we give Seoul relatively free access to our markets while they impose tariffs on our products.

One wonders what Moon Jae-in and other South Korean progressives, who opposed the KORUS FTA on the grounds that it undermined their country's sovereignty, would make of antiwar.com's portrayal of South Korea as having the economic whip-hand over the US.

http://tinyurl.com/mwwgzat

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

voice of the damned

FWIW, Wall Street, or at least Moody's, apparently likes the idea of a Moon Jae-in presidency. 

North Korea policies proposed by Moon Jae-in, the front-runner in South Korea’s presidential race, may have a positive impact on the sovereign credit rating of the fourth-largest economy in Asia, said a report from Moody’s on Tuesday.

The international credit rating agency said South Korea could undergo a change in its geopolitical risks after the upcoming election that falls on Tuesday, considering Moon’s North Korea-friendly policies that have been likened to the “Sunshine Policy” of the two past liberal governments led by former Presidents Kim Dae-jung and Roh Moo-hyun.

http://tinyurl.com/k957wmx

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..in my recent explorations of the korean conflict i have learned that it was the us that unilaterally created the 38th parallel divide.

..i learned it was the us installed murderous rhee who crossed that divide and attacked the north and this was the beginning of the war. rhee did not represent south korea as he lost the election and instead a landslide went to those who wanted peace and negotiations with the north.

..i learned the un got involved on the word of rhee and the us.

..now there is the us behaviour in installing thaad against the wishes of the people. under a lame duck administration tossed out for massive corruption.

..and now i wonder and hope to discover as i search out how the korus fta agreement came about. and what is in it. i suspect it was much like the other stuff where the us has been involved with in korea. i suspect nothing good.   

..i repeat it's the us that needs to be reined in.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..for starters. the free trade deal came in under park geun-hye, the recently ousted president from the saenuri party. the saenuri party is consider far right and authoritarian. park in 2015 passed a law that rewrites history text books. the change, many believed, was an attempt to display her father, a military dictator and 3rd sk president from '63 to '79, in a better light. when 70,000 protested the rewrites in seoul water cannons with capsaicin was turned on them. the us fighting for democracy in korea.

..still searching for the terms to the deal.

voice of the damned

epaulo13 wrote:

..for starters. the free trade deal came in under park geun-hye,

You might want to check your sources on that. Negotiations for the deal began under Roh Moo hyun, the centre-left president from the now defunct Uri Party, in 2006, and were completed in 2007, also under Roh. The deal was signed in 2008(still Roh), and implemented in 2011, under Lee Myung-bak, who was indeed from the Saenuri Party(though during his term, it was called the Grand National Party).  But this was all long before Park Geun-hye came to power.

Lee Myung-bak was(rightly) blamed for lifting the import-ban on US beef(originally imposed out of concern over mad-cow disease), but that was done before the FTA itself had been implemented.

http://tinyurl.com/zylv5ut

NDPP

'US Using North Korea Pretext To Launch Nuclear Attack on China' : Petras

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2017/05/05/520711/US-using-North-Korea-pre...

"The US is using the pretext of North Korea to build up its military capabilities in order to launch a nuclear attack on China, James Petras, an American writer and retired professor says."

NDPP

North Korea Under Siege

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/05/06/nkor-m06.html

"The Trump administration's reckless brinksmanship has created a tinder-box on the Korean peninsula..."

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..i stand corrected vod. txs. my mistake was in assuming that park geun-hye was president at the time of implementation. she was though in office in 2011.

..i am not denying that sk is a neoliberal state. even the incoming democratic party is center left. their policies don't change the nature of the state. it would be the same with canada if a federal ndp came to power. canada would remain a neoliberal state unless specific things were changed. such as the current processes for achieving a free trade deal.

..it's the democratic party positions on nk that really contrast. and i believe plays a real and important part in why it is incoming.

voice of the damned

epaulo13 wrote:

..i stand corrected vod. txs. my mistake was in assuming that park geun-hye was president at the time of implementation. she was though in office in 2011.

..i am not denying that sk is a neoliberal state. even the incoming democratic party is center left. their policies don't change the nature of the state. it would be the same with canada if a federal ndp came to power. canada would remain a neoliberal state unless specific things were changed. such as the current processes for achieving a free trade deal.

..it's the democratic party positions on nk that really contrast. and i believe plays a real and important part in why it is incoming.

I accept that you've stood corrected, but just for the record, Park Geun hye wasn't in office in 2011. She was elected in 2013. (And I myself had to look that up; I think I get thrown off because Korean elections aren't consistently held in even-numbered years.)

As for why the Democratic Party is probably incoming, my own best speculation is that "Choi Soon-sil gate" did most of the damage to Saenuri/Liberty Korea, and Trump's bluster has probably cemented the deal.

 

 

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

North Korea Under Siege

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/05/06/nkor-m06.html

"The Trump administration's reckless brinksmanship has created a tinder-box on the Korean peninsula..."

Good article. I especially liked the description of Sunshine as a cheap labour policy, rather than the nefarious Communist plot or warm fraternal embrace portrayed by conservatives and liberals, respectively.

Not that I was against the policy. Things were actually a lot calmer here when it was on the books.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..according to this link

In office
3 April 1998 – 29 May 2012

..and was reelected 2012

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