President Trump Fires FBI Director Comey

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josh

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Trump is the first rich and powerful person to hint at what they want as an outcome. They have even invented a brand new term for it, plausible deniablity.  

Even if one believes Comey the question is whether a stated "hope" is sufficient proof to meet a criminal test of obstruction. In Comey's testimony there was no threat or offer of a quid pro quo so it sounds like an uphill battle to show obstruction of justice and not merely gross impropriety which is not an impeachable offence.

It says crimes and misdemeanors.  Congress can impeach for just about anything, including incompetence in office.  Thus, it doesn't necessarily matter if it meets the legal definition of obstruction.  Nixon had to resign when it was revealed that he had told Haldeman to ask the CIA to tell the FBI to back off investigating the Watergate break in. No one debated whether it met the four corners of obstruction of justice.  Except for Nixon, who told David Frost that he had no "corrupt intent" in making the request.  Apparently he did it because of "national security."

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

You are apparently missing the fact that that the Democrats had majorities in both the House and Senate and had a hate on for Tricky Dicky that rivals the Democratic party's current hate for Trump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmp9gRsncuY

josh

Yes, but that's besides the point as to whether Trump could be impeached.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

josh wrote:

Yes, but that's besides the point as to whether Trump could be impeached.

Sorry I was not talking about the possiblity of him being impeached as a hypothetical idea. I was talking about the reality that a Republican controlled Senate and House would never impeach a Republican President unless the smoking gun was more substantially more damaging than the current testimony about Trump. 

Partisan politics rules everything in the US. 

quizzical

D.C. and Maryland sue President Trump, alleging breach of constitutional oath

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/dc-and-maryland-sue-president-tru...

for some place to put it.

quizzical
kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

quizzical wrote:

House Dem proposes article of impeachment 

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/house-dem-proposes-article-of-imp...

However that is not likely going to go anywhere. This part of the article is telling it all.

"At that point, I expect there will be a Motion to Table, thus triggering our first impeachment-related vote," Sherman wrote.

Since February, Democrats have been using the same procedure to force near-weekly votes on resolutions demanding Trump's tax returns.

6079_Smith_W

The first thing he asked Comey was if he wanted to keep his job.

Whether Trump asking him to back off on Mike Flynn can be proven to meet the technical standard of obstruction, it certainly was in spirit.

Actually the funniest and most chilling thing in this was Trump's lawyer spewing nonsense which he must have known was nonsense - that Comey leaked classified information - because Trump's base simply doesn't care about the facts, and will take it as true.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

6079 you missed my point. The current charges against Trump are not so blatent that Republicans will remove him from office.

What I don't get is how all the people who are cheering for Trump's demise don't understand that he might be less scary than the man waiting in the wings to take his place. A  self righteous Xian fundamentalist might be far more dangerous than a vainglorious crook.

Pence positioned himself as a principled ideologue and supporter of the Tea Party movement, noting he was "a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican, in that order."

josh

kropotkin1951 wrote:

6079 you missed my point. The current charges against Trump are not so blatent that Republicans will remove him from office.

What I don't get is how all the people who are cheering for Trump's demise don't understand that he might be less scary than the man waiting in the wings to take his place. A  self righteous Xian fundamentalist might be far more dangerous than a vainglorious crook.

Pence positioned himself as a principled ideologue and supporter of the Tea Party movement, noting he was "a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican, in that order."

Pence is awful.  But he's not a pathological lying megalomaniac crook.

6079_Smith_W

No, I got that, and I agree. Like the Russia inquiries, there may be no actual crime here. Even though Trump definitely did interfere, it may not meet the technical standard. And even if it does, it really is in the hands of Congress. 

I do think it is pretty clear there was a threat though, and that it was carried out.

And in fact, at this point Trump's opponents are probably better off with him where he is, hamstrung and incompetent. I bet most Republicans also wish they were dealing with Mike Pence right now.

Rev Pesky

From kropotkin1951

What I don't get is how all the people who are cheering for Trump's demise don't understand that he might be less scary than the man waiting in the wings to take his place.

They solved that problem in the days of Nixon by first getting rid of the VP (Spiro Agnew). Once Agnew was gone, a very mild-mannered Gerald F0rd was appointed VP, leaving the way clear to get rid of Nixon.

Not sure if that could be done nowadays,  but the situtation as it exists is not so bad. Trump is innoculating the rest of the world against poplist demagogues, and his party isn't getting any of their agenda items on the road, much less passed.

Then there will be a wonderful opportunity next year with the mid-term elections, provided the Democrats can take advantage. That is by no means a sure thing, but at least it's a possibility.

voice of the damned

Josh wrote:

Pence is awful.  But he's not a pathological lying megalomaniac crook.

Right now, I'm still not convinced that Pence would be better, even with "better" defined as "not as horrible as Trump". I can think of about maybe half-a-dozen things on the right-wing Republican agenda that aren't getting as much attention from Trump as the base would probably like(reversing the Cuba detente; cracking down on legalized weed, just f0r starters). I kind of have the idea that a hardcore true-believer like Pence would be more likely to dive head-first into those particular swamps, than a narcissistic barstool philosopher like Trump.

 

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Pence may be less likely to get us nuked (although all bets are off if he thinks he and Mother will be raptured), but a hamstrung Trump will be less able to roll back civil rights.

wage zombie

Pence doesn't have the outsider status of Trump, and that's a big part of Trump's appeal to his base. Pence is less dangerous for that reason.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Maybe in an election scenario - but in office he could be incredibly destructive. Certainly the GOP isn't worried about whether or not he has insider status - in fact, they probably like it more and more moderate Republicans are more apt to cooperate with him than rebel.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

If Trump were to keel over suddenly, I expect many Republicans would mouth platitudes about how he "gathered the real Americans around the campfires of Liberty" or whatever, and then go home and break out that Dom they've been saving for years. 

Finally, a good, honest, Republican man who isn't going to waste precious time and energy tweeting "booyahs" to his imaginary enemies!  Finally, a good, honest, Republican man who's ready to revisit Roe vs. Wade because "the people" want it, or reinstate prayer in schools, or tie school funding to "teaching both theories"!  Sure, Republicans wanted to win rather than lose, but this isn't exactly the win they hoped for.

It's true that he's been making some overtures to the k00Ks in his base, but it's a day late and a dollar short.

Cody87

Whatever you think of "Trump is at least better/less dangerous than Pence" or "Pence is at least better/less dangerous than Trump," nobody in the former group should complain if Trump was somehow impeached (extremely unlikely) or assassinated (more likely) and Pence took over. Pence taking over now removes the possibility of a Pence run in 2024, which is not impossible regardless of what happens in 2020.

NDPP

A Real Left Would Demand Peace   -    by Glen Ford (podcast)

https://soundcloud.com/user-208734627/4-glenford-lf-21mins00secs

"If you are resisting Russian collusion with Trump, then what you are resisting is a fantasy. And if you are simply resisting Trump, the idiot in the White House, then you are simply a tool of a Democratic Party strategy. Ford said the nation needs a rejuvenated anti-war movement, 'or else we are defenseless against this kind of strategy on the part of the Democrats, who pretend that they are an alternative to the fascist-sounding and definitely virulently white nationalist forces in the Republican Party, but are themselves intent upon a war policy that can mean the extinction of the human race."

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Cody87

Funny man Vladimir Putin has offered James Comey asylum if he is prosecuted for leaking to the press xD

"What's the difference between him and Snowden?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cia-AemKTcY

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Yes, old V.V. is trolling the Americans with obvious glee. LOL.

Rev Pesky

Quote from Glen Ford of the  Black Agenda Report:

"If you are resisting Russian collusion with Trump, then what you are resisting is a fantasy. And if you are simply resisting Trump, the idiot in the White House, then you are simply a tool of a Democratic Party strategy.

Is it possible to oppose Trump without earning the sneers of Glen Ford? There doesn't seem to be any way. You're either a fantasist or a tool of the Democrats, according to his analysis.

What he reminds me of more than anything is the old Stalinists, with their 'social fascists' argument. The argument that cost the people of earth about 20 millions souls, and untold amounts of money. To say nothing of the fact that Stalin himself did a complete turnaround, and anyone who 'remembered' his former policy was stricken from the books...

Ford talks about the Democratic Party as if he's never heard of the Presidents Bush, or the Iraq wars, or the invasion of Afghanistan.

What he should be telling people is that it is possible to be oppposed to Trump because he's an ignorant, semi-literate, narcissistic, lying, blowhard bully, without at the same time accepting the Democratic Party as the saviours of us all.

It is entirely possible to have more than one thought in one's head at any given moment. By stating this issue as he does, Ford leaves no room for those who oppose both. 

NDPP

Fake News and the Russian Interference Lie

https://t.co/YhwRDEJu2B

"Is this a joke?"

NDPP

For the Earth's Sake, Drop 'Russiagate'

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/06/16/for-the-earths-sake-drop-russiag...

"One cannot take Russiagate seriously unless one sets aside all intellectual rigor. The theory only has credence within the arena of belief; it does not inhabit the world of facts."

quizzical
Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
For the Earth's Sake, Drop 'Russiagate

If you can't do it for Vladimir, do it for Mother Earth.

NDPP

 

Intelligence Chiefs Escalate Anti-Russia Campaign

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/06/23/hear-j23.html

 

The US Ruling Class in Crisis (podcast)

https://soundcloud.com/user-208734627/3-dranthonymonteiro-lf-12mins03secs

"All of the institutions of government and ruling the people are being rejected by the people,' said Monteiro. This crisis exists in 'all the global centers of global capitalism,' and demands that the left make 'strategic decisions about how we move forward."

NDPP

Russia-gate Flops as Democrats' Golden Ticket

http://www.newcoldwar.org/russia-gate-flops-democrats-golden-ticket/

"The national Democrats saw Russia-gate and the drive to impeach President Trump as their golden ticket back to power, but so far the ticket seems to be made of fools' gold, writes Robert Parry."

josh

NDPP wrote:

Russia-gate Flops as Democrats' Golden Ticket

http://www.newcoldwar.org/russia-gate-flops-democrats-golden-ticket/

"The national Democrats saw Russia-gate and the drive to impeach President Trump as their golden ticket back to power, but so far the ticket seems to be made of fools' gold, writes Robert Parry."

Perhaps Mr. Parry is unaware that the next national election is November 6, 2018.

NDPP

Why The Democratic Party is Doomed     -      by Julian Assange

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1spvqcj

"The Trump-Russia collusion narrative is a political dead end. Democratic senators who have seen the classified intelligence...are forced to admit there is no evidence of collusion. Without collusion, we are left with the Democratic establishment blaming the public for not liking the truth about what Hillary Clinton said to Goldman Sachs and blaming their own base for not liking what was said in their own emails about fixing the DNC primaries.

The party cannot address real issues facing Americans because the Russian collusion narrative has consumed all its energy, and it is entangled with many of the same groups behind Trump's policies..."

NDPP

TRNN: RussiaGate Overshadows How Foreign Powers Buy Influence (and vid)

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&I...

"While the US media focuses on alleged Russian election meddling, reporter and author Jonathan Marshall says influence peddling from other foreign governments has been ignored...

'The ones I look at in the series besides the China lobby, are the pro-Israel lobby, the Saudi lobby, the Turkish lobby and the Ukraine lobby. These are examples of very powerful foreign interest groups that use large amounts of money to try to influence our policy..."

 

NDPP

NYT Finally Retracts Russia-Gate Canard

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/06/29/nyt-finally-retracts-russia-gate-c...

"The New York Times has finally admitted that one of the favorite Russia-gate canards - that all 17 US intelligence agencies concurred on the assessment of Russian hacking of Democratic emails is false."

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