Racial profiling a-ok in Arizona
Arizona has just passed a law which creates a 'reasonable suspicion' standard that allows law enforcement to stop those they belive may be undocumented immigrants. That means law enforcement can stop anyone who, on sight, is possibly an irregular migrant.
It is now a misdemeanour to lack proper immigration documentation. So even if you are legal, not having proof of that could land you in hot water. Making this a misdemeanour is what allows the 'reasonable suspicion', as otherwise, the 'suspect' would have to be implicated in another crime before law enforcement could demand immigration papers.
It's a beautiful example of cirular legislation. Can't stop latinos on the supicion that they are illegal if they're not doing anything wrong, so let's make not having papers about your person illegal!
An addition to the bill makes it impossible to ignore the law, and empowers citizens to ask for an order that the law be enforced.
Don't worry though, if you're an irregular migrant with white skin, you'll probably be okay.
Behind The Arizona Immigration Law
How many? Pearce's PR flak told me, five million. All Democrats, too. Again, I asked Pearce's office to give me their the names and addresses from their phony registration forms. I'd happily make a citizens arrest of each one, on camera. Pearce didn't have five million names. He didn't have five. He didn't have one.
The horde of five million voters who swam the Rio Grande just to vote for Obama was calculated on a Republican website extrapolating from the number of Mexicans in a border town who refused jury service because they were not citizens. Not one, in fact, had registered to vote: they had registered to drive. They had obtained licenses as required by the law.
The illegal voters, "wetback" welfare moms, and alien job thieves are just GOP website wet-dreams, but their mythic PR power helps the party's electoral hacks chop away at voter rolls and civil rights with little more than a whimper from the Democrats.
Indeed, one reason, I discovered, that some Democrats are silent is that they are in on the game themselves. In New Mexico, Democratic Party bosses tossed away ballots of Pueblo Indians to cut native influence in party primaries.
Stirring up hatred is always a useful tool for the elite.
I am waiting for them to start demanding ID from white Canadians snow birds. Maybe if a cop hears "eh" it will be what they need to check for their papers.
I wonder what all our american apologists and Cuba haters have to say about a law that makes it a crime for a citizen not to carry their papers. I'll bet more American Latinos get asked than white Canadians.
Not all americans are fascist of course so there is also a Congressman from Arizona calling for a boycott of his own state. Something Canadians should keep in mind since the snow birds are a big part of its economy.
http://www.kswt.com/Global/story.asp?S=12379315
I can't support it, neither in Arizona nor Cuba.
But if Cuba instituted such a policy -- y'know, to safeguard The Revolution from Uncle Sam and his tricksters -- I wonder how many Cuba supporters would openly criticize it? Seems all Cuba has to do, if it wants to get a little dodgy on some human rights, is say "Oh, but without this, Capitalism and the Enemies of the State would run rampant!!" and that's enough for a pass.
Mexico issues travel advisory and warning on trips to Arizona.
The tables are turned.
Still bashing the oppressed as your favorite passtime Snert?
US Aggression and Propaganda Against Cuba
You see Snert, the people of Cuba have been under siege for 50 years by a well armed gang of murderous thieving bandits, the same ones you support when you place the onus on the victims to change their ways, in order to render themselves acceptable to said thieving bandits, and to the way of life that you find acceptable as you gaze down your nose at them.
Settlers... You're ALL illegal! White, Hispanic, Chinese etc etc etc. Many of you state how Jewish settlers must leave the Palestinian Territories for peace, but then conveniently fail to make the same demands of yourselves in Turtle Island. Shameful!
But if Cuba instituted such a policy -- y'know, to safeguard The Revolution from Uncle Sam and his tricksters -- I wonder how many Cuba supporters would openly criticize it? Seems all Cuba has to do, if it wants to get a little dodgy on some human rights, is say "Oh, but without this, Capitalism and the Enemies of the State would run rampant!!" and that's enough for a pass.
This thread is soooo not about Cuba, thanks. Unless you're discussing Cubans getting stopped on suspicion of being illegal.
"But if Cuba instituted such a policy..."
...they'd be as bad as the USA?
That's a big "if."
Mexico issues travel advisory and warning on trips to Arizona.
The tables are turned.
Not that the bigots are going to care...they'll just holler 'hooray, less Mexicans!'.
I was married to a latino for nearly 11 years. Travelling in the US was a constant head-ache for us, even though all we ever did was go THROUGH the States to get elsewhere. Post 9/11 it did get a little easier, since they were focusing more on anyone who looked Arabic, rather than the traditional pastime of targetting hispanics. Still, being stuck in Houston during a layover was a very unpleasant experience, and if we could ever get direct flights so we wouldn't have to stop in the US, we did.
My only point with this little anecdote is that USian policies and attitudes towards latinos already pisses would-be travellers off. I'm hoping this particular state feels the bite of its policies.
Presente.org - Shame on Arizona
Boycott!
Can't boycott where I wasn't planning on going anyway...unfortunately.
And the boycott gains in momentum. ooh rah.
As a backlash by Hispanic groups, organized labor and civil liberties activists gained steam, officials in two of California's biggest cities also moved to cut ties with companies based in the neighboring border state of Arizona.
The Great Arizona Boycott
I wonder if the broadcaster for tonight's game 7 (it's the CBC) of the Phoenix/Detroit series will acknowledge the racial profiling issue? The game is being held in Arizona.
Supplemental: If Phoenix wins the game tonight, then the Arizona hockey team will be scheduled to play San Jose in the next round.
I think they can expect "fireworks" in that case. oh yea.
The new Obama healthcare legislation actually exacerbates the problems state and local governments have with illegal aliens (using public clinics, without insurance), because medical providers (hospitals, polyclinics) can no nonger get subsidy monies from the feds, if they treat illegals. Since ERs must treat anyone for a catastrophic illness, whether or not they've got insurance, this is creating a massive bad-debt problem for hospitals. Usually, border state residents end up picking up the tab, through state and county/local tax increases.
While there are certainly a lot of 'racists' (most Hispanics in the U.S. are actually Caucasian--'Hispanic' is an ethnicity, not a 'race'), this is hardly an extreme measure, and is a response to a real problem. Proof of citizenship can be something as simple as a SIN card, which most legal adults carry, anyhow. Checking of immigration status isn't just random: usually, someone is arrested for something else (car theft, assault, B&Es), when the police look into the person's legality. Look at some of the comments on U.S. newspapers, re. this issue and you'll see frustration among border state residents, over things like gangs, car thefts/jackings (sold accross the border), shootings of ranchers by 'coyotes' and backlogs in hospital ERs and public schools filled with students who can't function in English. Calling everyone 'racists' is elitist snobbery, from people who don't have to deal with the consequences of lax border controls. Businesses are actually among the groups lobbying against this sort of legislation, since an endless supply of cheap, coercible labour--with no healthcare, pension, or tax costs--means bigger profits. Rather than sneering at the 'racist' Arizona citizens, why don't you look at what led people in that state to back this legislation, by a large majority in both polls and the State Legislature?
Racists. And, by the way, on a site like this one we make reference to "undocumented immigrants". No one is "illegal".
"Proof of citizenship can be something as simple as a SIN card, which most legal adults carry anyhow."
I don't carry any ID on me. I haven't for years. It's a real pain in the ass to lose ID, so I only pull it out when I need it. The rest of the time it stays at home. Few people I know carry ID with them at all times unless they drive. If stopped, I would not be able to prove I was in this country legally.
I would not be okay with worrying whether I'm going to be harrassed or not simply because I forgot to pick up some ID before heading the grocery store.
This legislation isn't going to stop people from entering the US without legal permission. It is, however, going to promote harrassment, and lead to some seriously ill will between the so called vaulted 'legals' (who are going to be treated like criminals because of the colour of their skin) and law enforcement.
When you pass legislation, you should be weighing how effective your measures will be compared to the shitstorm it's going to raise. I don't think that exercise was engaged in here.
No one is "illegal".
Just all the settlers. Extremely illegal. But hey give us back our land and resources and we'll call it even.
No one is "illegal".
Just all the settlers. Extremely illegal. But hey give us back our land and resources and we'll call it even.
I'm curious. Does this mean you don't care about discrimination against hispanics, documented or not? Do you lump all 'settlers' together, and who cares what happens to them?
la la la
No one is "illegal".
Just all the settlers. Extremely illegal. But hey give us back our land and resources and we'll call it even.
I'm curious. Does this mean you don't care about discrimination against hispanics, documented or not? Do you lump all 'settlers' together, and who cares what happens to them?
I do lump all settlers together but I don't want to see people harmed. Considering the horrors FNs have gone through for the past 500 years I believe that old grievances should be settled before more recent ones. Indiginous peoples have and are being slaughtered by the Mexican government. If that situation were taken care of there would be no Mexicans trying to find a better life in the USSA, because Mexico would be a peaceful place. That would mean no Arizona type laws. It's all connected see.
you can't spell arizona without the letters N, A, Z, I.
Um...there's no 'I' in wtf?
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
I'm glad that you can consider indigenous issues and the rights of others at the same time. I was just checking.
Mexicans travel to the US for work due to economic policies of the US which has succeeded in depopulating the Mexican countryside. Flooding the Mexican market with subsidized corn, for example, has impoverished Mexican farmers and driven them to El Norte. Of course, it's more than just cheap Yanqui corn, but you get the idea. There's plenty written about this. Reducing the migration issue to the actions of the Mexican government is just wrong. Do your homework and see if you don't agree with me.
Only when they become the new oppressor. But as I note, it's certainly OK to restrict a few human rights here and there in the interest of state security, eh?
Then direct your comment to the poster who brought up Cuba, thanks. It's soooo about reading for comprehension, thanks.
Then direct your comment to the poster who brought up Cuba, thanks. It's soooo about reading for comprehension, thanks.
You were not the only person quoted. Details.
Image is banned by the way. Not by me, that oldgoat beat me to it.
... I'm calling bullshit on anyone who tries to say that the Arizona law won't lead to profiling.
As a matter of fact, supporters of the law should be outraged that the Governor of Arizona claims that profiling won't be a part of the law. The only way this kind of law "works" is if it is applied based on visible difference. Usually paper laws mandate that only the other...the undesirables...are required to have their documentation on them at all times. But Arizona has Americanized that shit...everyone is assumed to have some sort of government issued identification or easily produced proof of legal status, so supporters of the law can make the false claim that anyone who raises suspicion that they may not be American could be asked to produce documentation or face the consequences of having to prove that they are in the country legally. Yeah, that's American as a motherfucker...kind of reminds me of the impossible to pass voting tests members of my family had to take in Mississippi back in the day that were only given to black people trying to vote.
The thing is, Arizona could have passed the law with equal oppression for all.
from Angry Black Bitch
....
Racialicious has a blog post on this issue too.
1070 just requires local and state police to enforce existing Federal legislation. City mayors in states like Arizona are notorious for ordering their police to not enforce Federal immigration laws, or report illegals. Go look at the legislation, instead of making stuff up. This helps Mayors' and Councillors' campaigns, for Latino votes and donations from businesses that use illegal labor.
And stop with this 'undocumented worker' PC BS. A sovereign country, like the U.S., Canada, or Mexico, has the right to say who has access through its borders. People who are in the country illegally are 'illegal aliens', just like people who are in private property without permission are 'tresspassers'. Maybe you should throw open the doors to your house and let anyone in. The cops can then tell you that they can't do anything about the 'undocumented squatters', because 'no one is illegal'. And Mexico also has its own illegal alien problem, with Central American border-jumpers.
It's easy to call everyone 'racists' from 1,000 miles away, without living in the mess people in border states have to put up with. Ranchers have been shot by coyotes. Car jackings and thefts are an escalating problem. People are losing jobs to 'undocumented workers', because it's cheaper to hire low-wage, non-union workers with no benefits, payroll taxes or compensation. Swelling border town populations mean housing prices keep going up, the cost of food in stores keeps going up, but wages are falling from competition with cheap labor. Businesses LOVE illegal aliens, but working citizens get screwed. The schools are crammed with Spanish-only kids whose parents don't pay taxes, meaning the public school system is a mess. The ERs are clogged with 'undocumented workers' with no insurance, which means that the State government (meaning local taxpayers) ends up with the tab. Many of the illegals aren't 'workers', but criminals (coyotes, drug dealers, burglars, robbers, car thieves). Even ID theft is becoming a big problem. This is why around 70% of Arizona's voters support 1070, and even Texas, Utah, Ohio and other states are looking into similar legislation. Are you saying democracy is 'racist', because most ordinary voters support enforcing EXISTING immigration laws?
Just sit up there in your coccoon and sneer with contempt at the 'racist hicks' who are fed up with crime, crumbling social infrastructure, rising taxes and falling wages. Laws like 1070 are democracy in action, whether your elitist, PC sensibilities can stomach it, or not.
Right. Well, Snowbird, I think you've stumbled upon the wrong board. As an added plus, though, you get to be the first troll I ban. What a singular honour!
I get a sense that Arizona won't be seeing much of a drop in business from vacationing snowbird people as a result of this legislation. Perhaps it's just as well too, as we stand to enjoy the benefit of their absence for at least a little while.
Right. Well, Snowbird, I think you've stumbled upon the wrong board. As an added plus, though, you get to be the first troll I ban. What a singular honour!
Thanks in advance.
Mexicans travel to the US for work due to economic policies of the US which has succeeded in depopulating the Mexican countryside. Flooding the Mexican market with subsidized corn, for example, has impoverished Mexican farmers and driven them to El Norte. Of course, it's more than just cheap Yanqui corn, but you get the idea. There's plenty written about this. Reducing the migration issue to the actions of the Mexican government is just wrong. Do your homework and see if you don't agree with me.
The people leaving Mexico INVOLUNTARILY are the indiginous people being disposessed by Mexican government-allied thugs. Your argument that the MG is not a player in this genocide is apalling. Trying to equate economic migration with genocidal migration is shameful!
So ET did you do blood tests at the border to determine that these are indigenous people and not settlers?
The political right has its single issue drones as well. Buzz buzz buzz. I don't think ET's obtuse reply deserves a response.
I should, however, take this opportunity to flesh out my idea a little more. Of course the subsidized corn dumped into Mexico by the US is having a huge effect on Mexicans of all ethnicities. Then there are the maquiladoras along the border with the US that also play a role in draining the population from the interior of Mexico. Capitalism, wherever it is, has created a propertyless class that must sell its labour power in order to live. So the driving of Mexican farmers from the land is all part of the modus operandi of capitalism and has been so since the early 19th century in England.
1070 just requires local and state police to enforce existing Federal legislation.
A sovereign country, like the U.S., Canada, or Mexico, has the right to say who has access through its borders.
just like people who are in private property without permission are 'tresspassers'.
Maybe you should throw open the doors to your house and let anyone in. The cops can then tell you that they can't do anything about the 'undocumented squatters', because 'no one is illegal
Ranchers have been shot by coyotes. Car jackings and thefts are an escalating problem.
People are losing jobs to 'undocumented workers', because it's cheaper to hire low-wage, non-union workers with no benefits, payroll taxes or compensation.
Swelling border town populations mean housing prices keep going up, the cost of food in stores keeps going up, but wages are falling from competition with cheap labor.
Businesses LOVE illegal aliens, but working citizens get screwed.
The ERs are clogged with 'undocumented workers' with no insurance, which means that the State government (meaning local taxpayers) ends up with the tab.
This is why around 70% of Arizona's voters support 1070,
most ordinary voters support enforcing EXISTING immigration laws?
Maybe I'll be the last person Oldgoat bans or the second person Catchfie bans and everyone will get a good laugh but sorry take away this posters agressive attitde and some of the racist comments (many of the illegals are criminals) and they still raise some good points I've indicated above.I'm often hit with some mean racial profiling and I know first hand how much it sucks. I'm not saying this stuff justifies it but the above points seem like some fairly serious issues and not just a little bitty thing like some posters here pass it off as. Am I a racist for not wanting my taxes to go towards someone that snuck into Canada? I can barely put food on my table, how is that fair?
Lets not just single out the illegal aliens but the companies that use them for cheap dispsable labour too!And what exactly is the warning system here? Some people get multiple warnings and others are banned for their first infraction?
So ET did you do blood tests at the border to determine that these are indigenous people and not settlers?
The indiginous peoples of Mexico are being forced out by violence and genocide. The settler Mexicans are leaving due to economic reasons (imposed by the USSA). I ask you, which is worse? Hint: It's the violence and genocide. I wonder why N.Beltov can't see that...
Anyone referring to economic refugees, human beings who flee the ravages of global capitalism in search of survival as 'illegal' and 'alien' have frankly given over all sense of their own humanity to a system that spoon feeds these wretched views into their willing and gaping maw.
The political right has its single issue drones as well. Buzz buzz buzz. I don't think ET's obtuse reply deserves a response.
Moderators! Calling other babblers names is against the board policy. I was censored for a way milder form of this( "some posters here are delusional" is what I said. ) Will you maintain your high standards against this form of abuse?
Down with N. Beltov!! Buzzkill.
lol.
N Beltov, don't call E.Tamaran obtuse, or refer to ET's posts as droning.
E.T. I will ask you to post to the topic. You too Slumberjack.
As to the issue of the racist troll Image, aka Snowbird, anyone who wants to read unchallenged racist talking points from rightwing scaremongers please see any comments section on any major network news website.
mea culpa. I look forward to future debate with ET in which I float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.
So ET did you do blood tests at the border to determine that these are indigenous people and not settlers?
The indigenous peoples of Mexico are being forced out by violence and genocide. The settler Mexicans are leaving due to economic reasons (imposed by the USSA). I ask you, which is worse? Hint: It's the violence and genocide. I wonder why N.Beltov can't see that...
I guess my problem is I can't tell the difference by looking at pictures of the people streaming across the border whether they are pure blood indigenous people or mixed race settlers. Which is exactly the reason I have a problem with your analysis.
And since you asked I must tell you I have this world view that all humans are siblings. I don't differentiate between oppressed groups and say that some peoples suffering is worse because they are of one race and not another. The people of Mexico are being screwed and I think it is a tragedy for ALL not just some. Given my limited knowledge of aboriginal culture what tradition are you following that uses race as a determination of anything?
kropotkin, it would be great if you stopped going after E.Tamaran and also try to stick with the topic of the thread.
Statement from People of North Carolina to Stand Against Arizona's SB1070
As People of North Carolina we denounce SB1070. We stand with the people of Arizona, in particular, immigrant communities, and the grassroots call to honor the dignity and human rights of all.
SB1070, approved by Gov. Jan Brewer (R-AZ) on Friday, April 23 attacks immigrant communities by setting a precedent for vast human and civil rights violations through institutionalizing racial profiling and criminalization of immigrant workers. These laws are rooted in xenophobia and racism; they mandate racial profiling and are a direct attack on immigrant communities and communities of color.
In North Carolina we have seen the effects of anti-immigrant policies that have led to racial profiling. Like Arizona, we have been the testing ground for anti-immigrant policies. North Carolina has one of the highest number of 287(g) agreements and Secure Communities programs. As a state, we have suffered the effects of local enforcement as immigrant families are separated or live in fear of deportation.
We affirm the bold and heroic resistance of the people of Arizona who called, walked-out, picketed, protested, and took direct action to try to stop the passage of SB 1070. We know that the struggles in Arizona are directly connected to the struggles we face in North Carolina; they are on the frontlines and we must reinforce, support, and follow their lead in challenging this xenophobic and racist reaction. Their struggle for justice is ours and their victories and set-backs ripple across the fabric of the movement for human rights and liberation.
In light of the demands of our sisters and brothers in Arizona, we support their call for boycotts and divestment from Arizona, including ceasing tourism and divesting from entities in which Arizona is economically invested. Arizona, as an apartheid state, must be choked economically and pressured to repeal.
What is happening in Arizona is the extreme pole of the racist forces of reaction that finance hate groups such as the Tea Party and Minutemen. Well-funded organizations across the country such as the Koch Foundation and The Pope Foundation in North Carolina support the amplifications of hate-filled messages from Tom Tancredo, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and those public figures that attack working people from every direction. These groups capitalized on the economic crisis to amplify racism and use divide and conquer tactics to pit working people against each other and scapegoat immigrants.
Along with affirming and acting in solidarity with resistance in Arizona, we want to strengthen the connection between our states to work against the expanded militarization of the border and the criminalization of immigrants and people of color. There are many ways we can connect, learn and grow from and with each other.
We condemn the vigilante-ism of renegade Sheriffs who abuse the powers and current laws and create terror within communities. Sheriffs, such as Joe Arpaio, have rallied for tougher enforcement and an expansion of their powers, and their blatant profiling and human rights abuses have outraged the country. In North Carolina we call out the mass round-ups and deportations in 287(g) counties at the hands of Sheriffs in Wake, Henderson, Mecklenburg, Guilford, Alamance, and Gaston Counties. We are also concerned about the implementation of Secure Communities in Orange County under the direction of Sheriff Pendergrass and anti-immigrant attacks by Sheriff Bizzell in Johnston County.
We call on the people of North Carolina to support our sisters and brothers in Arizona by sending money to grassroots-led organizations, sending solidarity caravans, and answering their calls to action as they continue to pressure Governor Brewer and other policy-makers. We also call on President Obama to end ICE ACCESS programs and put a moratorium on all deportations until just and humane immigration reform is realized. Let us support caravans to Arizona and let us support local actions and organizing here in North Carolina!
We join the call for a national May Day of multi-ethnic unity with youth, labor and justice communities in solidarity with immigrant workers. Together we must build a new immigrant rights & workers rights movement!
On May Day, International Workers Day, we demand:
1) No to anti-immigrant legislation, and the criminalization of the immigrant communities.
2) No to the Schumer-Graham immigration reform blueprint that calls for greater border militarization, tougher enforcement, and criminalization of immigrants.
3) No to immigrant detention and deportation.
4) No to employer sanctions and "no match" letters.
5) No to free trade policies that displace workers.
6) Yes to a path to legalization without condition for undocumented immigrants NOW.
7) Yes to speedy family reunification.
8) Yes to civil rights and humane immigration law.
9) Yes to labor rights and living wages for all workers.
10) Yes to education over incarceration and to LGBTQ equality in immigration policies and worker protections.
Over the next 90 days, there will be many opportunities to take action, show solidarity, and build our collective power to transform society and overturn Arizona's SB 1070. Let us reach out across culture, race, and gender to build strong alliances and organize bold actions that will shake the country and lay the foundation to build the kind of world we all need and deserve.
Si se puede!
Hasta la victoria!
La Lucha Obrera, No Tiene Frontera!
Together, we can!
In solidarity,
Farm Labor Organizing Committee
Coalition of Latin American Organizations
Trabajadores Unidos (Western North Carolina Workers Center)
Nuestro Centro La Comunidad, Asheville
Raleigh F.I.S.T.
Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation
UNC-Chapel Hill Feminist Student United
Dismantling Racism Works
Black Workers for Justice
Viridiana Martinez, Raleigh
Annie Dove, statewide VP, UE 150 NC Public Sector Workers Union*
Bridgette Burge, YWCA of the Triangle Racial Justice Program Co-Chair*
Emily Cabaniss, NC State Sociology Graduate Student*
Tema Okun, Durham
Michelle Johnson, Carrboro
Dani Martinez-Moore, NC Justice Center*
Jillian Johnson, Palante Action Network*
Rebecca Fontaine, Durham
Brigid Flaherty, Pushback Network*
Shafeah M'Balia, Rocky Mount
Erin Byrd, Raleigh
Sendolo Diaminah, People's Durham*
Elisa Benitez-Hernandez, Umbrella Coalition*, Durham
Manju Rajendran, Umbrella Coalition*, Durham
Larsene Taylor, Chair, UE150-NC Public Service Workers Union-DHHS Council*, Goldsboro
Natasha El-Sergany, Chair, UNC Chapel Hill National Lawyers Guild Chapter*
* for identification purposes only
So ET did you do blood tests at the border to determine that these are indigenous people and not settlers?
The indiginous peoples of Mexico are being forced out by violence and genocide. The settler Mexicans are leaving due to economic reasons (imposed by the USSA). I ask you, which is worse? Hint: It's the violence and genocide. I wonder why N.Beltov can't see that...
N Beltov, don't call E.Tamaran obtuse, or refer to ET's posts as droning.
E.T. I will ask you to post to the topic. You too Slumberjack.
As to the issue of the racist troll Image, aka Snowbird, anyone who wants to read unchallenged racist talking points from rightwing scaremongers please see any comments section on any major network news website.
Well, by definition those points are unchallenged when we aren't able to answer them.
One of the enduring goals of babble, Yiwah, is to offer a discussion space where core principals aren't rehashed and refought over again and again in an effort to raise the level of debate (ha!). So we try to take as our starting point the idea that no one is "illegal," that laws like Arizona's Immigration law are racist (in fact, you yourself took this for granted in the OP!) and that recurring tropes like "illegal immigrants are taking away jobs from the working classes" represent attempts by the ruling classes to forge divides and schisms between groups that should be allies. By taking such values for granted, hopefully we can elevate the conversation to how we stop bills like this instead of should we stop bills like this. That's the idea, anyway.
I agree that conflict can be kind of an engine for discussion because it really gets the juices flowing. But conflict posts like Snowbird's invite is not the kind of conflict we want, or have ever wanted, on babble.
I should also add that Snowbird's evident contempt for this board and its posters was a key factor in his early exit--if there were any doubt as to whether he came here in good faith, that ended it.
Back in the old days, when Mishei and Dr. Conway were around, "obtuse" was a frequently-used term of endearment in these here parts.
*pwit.......ping!*
That's so acute.
Dear Friends,
Arizona's governor just signed SB 1070 into law, effectively making it legal to racially profile in the state. The bill requires local law enforcement to question anyone they have "reasonable suspicion" of being undocumented. Translation: you could be pulled over for no other reason than that you are brown-skinned or speak Spanish.
That Gov. Jan Brewer could sign such a discriminatory law - one of the worst in the nation - is a moral outrage. We need to send a clear message that Arizona does not deserve economic support from the rest of the country. Tourism is a huge industry in the state - bringing in $18 billion last year. With the passage of SB 1070, it's time to say shame on Arizona and pledge not spend our dollars in a place where racial profiling is legal. Our friends at Presente.org have set up an online action through which you can send a message to the governor of Arizona, state and local tourism and commerce officials:
http://presente.org/campaigns/shame/org/soaw
SOA Watch supports the struggle for Justice for Immigrants. We understand that many immigrants to the United States are victims of U.S.-sponsored military training and atrocities in Latin America. In our fight to close the SOA, we continue to work towards a world that is free of suffering and violence. We recognize the SOA/ WHINSEC and the unjust immigration policies like SB 1070 as being parts of the same racist system of violence and domination. We ally ourselves with those most affected by SOA violence and their families in our effort to create a better world.
Many immigrants that come to the United States from Latin America are victims of SOA graduates who carry out violence against civilian populations in their own countries. Right now in Colombia, paramilitary groups are terrorizing villages, which causes displacement and migration. But this is hardly a new phenomenon. In the 1980s, during the civil wars in Central America, military and paramilitary groups uprooted people from their homes, and many fled to the United States.
The anti-immigrant politicians who passed SB 1070 may not care about justice and human rights, but they definitely care about the tourism industry that brings in billions of dollars to the state. We need to show them that their decisions have consequences. Will you join us in saying shame on Arizona and pledging to stay away from the state? It only takes a moment.
Thank you and ¡Adelante!
SOA Watch
This is an interesting perspective on why lawsuits against 1070 would likely fail:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/How-Obama-could-lose-Arizona-...
This was Obama's former position on such legislation:
http://www.breitbart.tv/flashback-obama-argues-for-rule-of-law-in-deport...
This is what Mexico does to 'undocumented immigrants':
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2010/0428/Mexicans-slam-Arizona-...
This is the text of 1070:
http://www.azgovernor.gov/dms/upload/EO_201009.pdf
At any rate, challenges by the Federal government, against what is essentially the Feds own legislation, will have an explosive effect on the mood of people in Arizona, 70% of whom supported this bill (even over the objections of many Republicans). Like it, or not, this was populist legislation, enacted through the democratic process. If the Feds do try to have it quashed (and Obama's Administration probably won't), expect a Tenth Amendment challenge. Obama is clearly facing a bit of a Gordon Brown moment, here.
Yes, well people often seem to misunderstand the role of "rights" in the scheme of democratic process. "Rights" as adjudicated by courts are intended to enshrine protections for all, even if the will of the majority in a democratic process might desire otherwise. So, for example, if 70% of people in Arizona voted for legislation to have all Jews wear little yellow stars on their clothes so that the police could identify them, in a democractic society this could be overturned by the courts. In fact, it is very doubtful, that any "democractic process" that allowed for the majority to impose legislation that contravened constitutionally enshrined rights of persons on the basis of a simple majority could actually be called "democratic", since democracy is usually construed to mean a whole set of institutions that guide social discourse. In the USA they used to call these "checks and balances".
Interesting that you mentioned the 10th Amendment. Isn't that the one that is coloquially associated with "states rights", that formed the legal basis for rejecting the abolition of slavery and the secession that led to the American Civil War?
Again, this law merely requires police to enforce existing legislation, something which certain local governments have actually forbidden their police from doing. Do you remember the 55mph Federal Highway law? Imagine if state troopers never were allowed to issue speeding tickets. Or, take bank robberies--a Federal offence: pretend, for a second, that city mayors didn't allow cops to arrest bank robbers. Silly hyperbole, I know, but this is what is happening in major cities, like Phoenix, with immigration law. I suspect the Tenth Amendment argument could be used to argue that the State of Arizona has the right to tell its own police forces to enforce the law.
If 1070 is 'unconstitutional' (many experts, even ones who don't like the law, seem to think it isn't), then Federal immigration law is, too. And 1070 was the product of a functional representative democracy, responding to overwhelming popular support, whether you, or 'Nooneisillegal', or Shakira like it, or not. The Federal Government also has the temerity to criticize Arizona for enforcing Federal law, while at the same time downloading the costs of 'undocumented immigrant' healthcare onto Arizona and other border states via Obamacare. (As I've said before, Obamacare cuts Federal subsidies to hospitals, used to cover bad debt from treating illegal residents who are uninsured.)
Being in the country illegally (i.e., without proper authorization, like a visa) is illegal, just like entering a property without the owner's permission is trespassing. 'Undocumented' is a silly, politically-correct euphemism for 'illegal', plain and simple. And please respect the fact that this law was crafted in response to the valid concerns the people of Arizona have for their economic and physical well-being. Do spend some time actually reading the text of the law, as well as not dismissing the concerns of ordinary people out of hand. In other words, don't pull a Gordon Brown... ;)
I don't recall suggesting that the United States was particularly democractic. It was you who got confused and started believing that a majority vote that overturned fundamental rights and freedoms, or one where no such fundamental rights were actionable, could somehow be equated with a "democratic process".
Cueball,
The U.S. has no coercion of voters and generally fraud-free (except for the odd non-citizen, repeat, or deceased voter) and error-free (when those dastardly Diebold machines work properly) elections. Referenda on major issues are frequent, and most Judges, Prosecutors and even Sheriffs are elected. This is a pretty good score. By comparison, Canada is better in the vote security (mandatory voter-ID and paper ballots) and campaign finance departments, but worse in terms of elected judges and whatnot. I'm really curious about what your gold standard for 'particularilly democratic' is--Switzerland? Oh, but they had that minaret referendum...
As smarter people than me, schooled in the subtleties of U.S. law, have said, for 1070 to violate the Bill of Rights, so to would Federal immigration law. People are only annoyed because that Federal legislation is now going to be enforced. Those, 'people', BTW, aren't just advocates for 'the undocumented', but also money-grubbing business lobbyists who like cheap labor, real estate speculators who want to boost housing demand and politicians who count on non-citizen voters to deliver them victory through the insecure U.S. voting system.
I am sorry. You just don't understand democratic process. "Voting" is probably about 1/10th of what makes up a "democratic process".
You forgot to mention the 100s of millions of corporate dollars it takes these days per candidate to even register in the consciousness of an electorate that has their eyes glued to corporate propaganda squawk boxes. The entire endeavour is free from any semblance of honesty, beyond even Don Corleone's wildest dreams, where the end result produces minions who immediately set to work on behalf of the ones who brung em, not the voters. The voters are merely befuddled pawns to be stepped on and over. The elected justice system on the other hand produces outcomes such as life sentences after having been found guilty three times for smoking grass, or stealing food. Justice can't actually be said to be blind if one has to continually look over their shoulder at a confused and fear mongered electorate to determine sentencing ranges. It isn't surprising that such a fundamentally corrupt system of kleptocracy, where root and branch corruption is considered as 'fraud-free' by a nation of no nothings, considers the rounding up of poor men women and children in the street as a just solution to the problem of migrant wage slavery by criminals who operate trans-national agriculture conglomerates.
And the boycott gains in momentum. ooh rah.
As a backlash by Hispanic groups, organized labor and civil liberties activists gained steam, officials in two of California's biggest cities also moved to cut ties with companies based in the neighboring border state of Arizona.
I'd imagine that as many as half of the payers for the Diamandbacks are Hispanic.
I just saw yesterday that the beverage company called "Arizona" which makes iced teas and juices held a press conference to tell people that, despite the name, they actually are based in New York. They were scared of a boycott.
Cactus why are you here spewing tea bag talking points. What I love is all these Libertarian americans who want a police state for everyone but themselves. Sort of like good Aryans who need protection from the masses of lesser beings who surround their borders in places like Poland.
"Your papers please has no place," in a democratic country. One of the reasons this is so insidious is that it leaves the police with the ability to demand papers from anyone on "reasonable suspicion" of being in the country illegal. So your latino citizens have just been put in to the hands of the police forces who can demand papers of them merely for being of Mexican American descent. ANd the kicker is if you are an american you can be arrested for not carrying papers. Did you get that your government can arrest people citizens for not carrying their travel papers. If it looks like a totalitarian government then you might want to check you enthusiasm since you seem to think that democracy is a good thin
"Your papers please has no place," in a democratic country.
Last weekon Saturday Night Live, the host of Weekend Update joked that "Every time someone says 'show me your papers', Hitler's family gets a residual check." And added "This is fascism. I know, Arizona, it's a dry fascism. But it's still fascism."
This 'show me your papers' business is nonsense. If you want to equate things with the Nazis, how about gun control (a Nazi policy), vegetarianism (advocated by Hitler), public smoking bans and anti-smoking campaigns (brought in by the Nazis), Europe's first animal cruelty and anti-vivisection laws (you guessed it, the Nazis)--all nice, 'progressive' stuff. I mean, you have to give a password and username to post on Babble...
Just as the owners of private property have a right to control access to their property, so to do sovereign countries have a right--as a compact of citizens--to determine who is in, or out of their country. Polling on this law indicates that over 70% support it in Arizona, with 65% support nationwide. And, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the U.S. is a 'democracy'. Not perfect, clearly (Diebold machines, non-citizen voters and Obama/Bush-style corporate-funded zillion-dollar campaigns), but it is a representative democracy. The people wanted this legislation and they got it...even if Jeb Bush and other 'conservatives' didn't.
Maybe the solution to this is severely punishing businesses who hire 'undocumented workers', by seizing and disposing of their assets. Also, suing the Federal government, to recover the costs (hospitals, schools) of absorbing so many border-hoppers.
Your educational knowlege is lacking, apparently you have been taking other people's words for historical fact, without any actual research on your own, cactus.
Nazis Germany was not around in the 1600's when animal rights laws comenced, for example.
That German Drs first found out that tobacco consumption caused cancer, has little to do with the government being Nazi.
Vegitarianism, existed LONG before Nazis Germany, just as it exists long after it.
Now I would ask the mods why this dear fellow is still here?
Arizona is hurting more than it's self with this law (yet to be enacted).
Here's an interesting report that proves that point...
http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/docs/Remittances%20021010.pdf
In summary, remittances are a long term investment in the U.S. export economy. Available evidence indicates that in poorer countries, remittances prompt consumer spending, increasing export competiveness for U.S. goods. Remittances are also used to fund education and health services, increasing human capital and ultimately the earning potential of individuals in a country. U.S. exports of technological, recreational, or luxury goods become feasible as incomes increase and the expectation of economic security and gains increases for populations. Remittances create the ability and desire to purchase U.S. goods, creating new markets for these goods, and increasing global trade competitiveness for U.S. industries.
Pages 5 thru 9 are the best quick read for the lazy amongst us...
Anti-vivisection laws in Nazi Germany were a first. Hitler was vehemently anti-hunting. He also started the first public anti-smoking campaign (with cute cartoons, comparing jews to cigarettes, and the like), and the Nazis imposed a strict gun-control regime. The point of me bringing this up is that screaming 'NAZI!' at everything is getting rather silly.
The majority of people in Arizona wanted this law (which, as has been pointed out, essentially mirrors existing Federal legislation), even over the reservations of State Republicans. This was a populist response to the very real problem of immigration laws not being enforced, both at the Federal and State/local levels. As in Britain, uncontrolled immigration is hurting working-class citizens, in terms of competition for labor, drains on local finances and escalating crime. However the response from both politicians (Bush, Brown) and do-gooder, wealthy celebrities (Shakira, Billy Bragg) has been to label working/middle-class voters 'bigotted' for daring to suggest something has to be done. As in Britain, people are fed up with this sort of paternalism and are showing it in the polls.
I think you're responding to me. For the record, I wasn't the one who compared it to naziism. i was quoting the guy from SNL who did.
Yes, sovereign states have a right to control their borders, obviously. The issue that they're giving pretty wide range to officers to harass people on the basis of "suspicion". I live in the United States. I've lived here under student visas during undergrad and med school. I then had a special permit that allowed me to remain here cause I was engaged to an American (my fiancee LOVED dangling THAT over me!) and now I'm here as a "permanent resident", married to a US citizen and with a green card, permitting me to work. I know ALL ABOUT having to carry papers around with me. Here's the thing: in over 10 years, except while actually crossing a border, nobody ever asked to see my papers. I was here as a foreigner and nobody ever had "suspicion" about my legal status and I'm guessing it's cause I'm a white guy with a neutral-sounding accent. And I'm guessing that in Arizona, guys who look and sound like me aren't gonna get bothered once with this. But if you look hispanic and speak with an accent, you're just nviting harassment.
How many people in AZ who want the law, has no bearing on this matter. 100% of Arizonians may well want slavery re-enacted too.
You are a bigot full stop.
This Arizona politician's comment on 1070 might be worth reading:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/04/29/EDA41D700U.D...
I'm an Arizona state senator. I want to explain SB1070, Arizona's immigration bill, which I voted for and which was just signed by Gov. Jan Brewer.
Rancher Rob Krentz was shot to death on his ranch over a month ago and the shooter fled into Mexico. His family suspects a drug smuggler is responsible. I participated in a state Senate hearing two weeks ago on the border violence that is, and has been, sweeping our border communities for years. From those hearings, we learned that:
-- The people who live within 60 to 80 miles of the U.S.-Mexico border have been terrorized by the Mexican drug cartels and human smugglers. One rancher testified that 300 to 1,200 people cross his ranch every day, vandalizing his property, stealing his vehicles, cutting down his fences and leaving trash. He testified that in the last two years, he has found 17 bodies and, alarmingly, several copies of the Quran.
-- Another rancher testified that drugs are brought across his ranch in a military-style operation, with guards armed to the teeth. A point man with a machine gun goes in front, a half-mile behind are the fully armed guards, a half-mile behind them are the drugs, and behind the drugs are more guards. This was not the only rancher we heard who talked about the drug trains.
-- One man told of two border crossers who came on his property, one of them shot in the back and the other in the arm by drug runners who forced them to carry drugs and then shot them. They frequently hear gunfire at night and are afraid to leave their ranch for fear of what the smugglers will do to it.
The Border Patrol is not on the border. It has set up 60 miles away with check points that do nothing to stop the invasion. The officers are not allowed to use force in stopping anyone who is entering.
The national media do not report on these stories because it conflicts with their perception of the illegal immigration issue, which is based on an assumption that all illegal immigrants are law-abiding landscapers, maids and day laborers. While this is true in many cases, it is also true that our federal and state prisons and county jails are full of a disproportionate number of illegal immigrants who are committing a disproportionate number of crimes.
The federal government has failed to do anything substantive to help border states like Arizona. We have been overrun by immigrants and, once they are here, the state has the burden of funding services that they use. With a $3.5 billion state budget deficit, we have many difficult decisions to make, and one of those decisions is that we don't have the money to care for people who are not here legally.
This has to stop. The border can be secured. We have the technology, we have the ability to stop this invasion. We must know who is coming into the country, and they must come in an organized manner - legally, so that we can assimilate them into our population and protect the sovereignty of our country.
The national media has distorted, disfigured, and dismembered Senate Bill 1070 to the point that its reputation no longer bears any resemblance to what the bill actually does. Those who claim it is racist, or will foster a Nazi-state are themselves fostering unwarranted and irrational hysteria.
The fact is that Senate Bill 1070 merely makes it a state crime to be in the United States illegally. It also explicitly prohibits law enforcement officials from solely considering race, color, or national origin in determining immigration status.
Many lawmakers who supported SB1070, including me, also support amnesty, but not until we secure the border. Failing to secure the border only moves us closer to some form of a North American Union with no borders and no national sovereignty. Many of those protesting SB1070 have called for just that.
Maybe it is too late to save America. Maybe we are not worthy of freedom anymore. But as an elected official, I must try to do what I can to protect our Constitutional Republic.
Living in America is not a right simply because you walk across the border. Being an American is a responsibility. Freedom is not free.
[Note the reference to a 'North American Union'. This is interesting, as it mirrors what is happening in the UK, with the EU and those 'Eastern Europeans' who caused Gordon Brown so much grief. There is much anxiety, justifiably so, over supranational governments and the loss of national sovereignty.]
Oh...I have to post this, too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq2j74Zc0rA&feature=player_embedded
Europe, a 'country'?! Like, I presume, America and its '57 States' (another Obamaism). Obviously, this guy went to the same Toastmasters group as Dubya...
BTW, the reference to the Quran in the above text is of concern, since there has been evidence that 'coyotes' are smuggling al Qaeda operatives accross the border. They'll do anything, for a fee. While the current Administration blames Canada for 'leaky' borders (even though a CANADIAN border guard caught the Millenium Bomber, and the 9/11 terrorists were in the U.S. on work visas)--and imposed this idiotic passport requirement--the Southern border is a dangerous joke.
Cactus/snowbird/image/tenacious-fucking-bigot, is quite the energizer bunny, and has now given all three mods a crack at banning him.
You think that is bad. There is evidence that Rabble has been letting bigots under the wire at its forum.
Anti-vivisection laws in Nazi Germany were a first. Hitler was vehemently anti-hunting. He also started the first public anti-smoking campaign (with cute cartoons, comparing jews to cigarettes, and the like), and the Nazis imposed a strict gun-control regime. The point of me bringing this up is that screaming 'NAZI!' at everything is getting rather silly.
As for this, don't flatter yourself. You are just a run of the mill ethnic chauvanist with no comprehension of what "democracy" is or what "rights" are. I am tempted to call you a run of the mill fascist, but at worst you are just the kind of appologist that real extremist bigots use to soft-pedal their knuckle dragger ideologies. A stooge, maybe. Obviously, its you who has failed to "intergrate' into the standards of "western" democratic "culture and mores", which at its best predicated on the "rights" of individuals to be defended from the "tyrrany of the majority", (Plato, Aristotle, Madison, Tocqueville, and J. S. Mill) despite the fact that you pose yourself as a defender of those values.
Don't kid yourself. You are not a defender of western culture.
I would just like to observe that Israel has just imposed very similar restrictions on Palestinians in theWest Bank with even harsher consequences for not having your "papers in order" and raised not even a peep from the pols and liberal media so in an uproar over Arizona. That's all I wanted to say. Thanks.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gGgzImP2k9_40Sl_i3l7IX...
Arizona deputy shot; illegal immigrants suspected
By BOB CHRISTIE (AP) – 1 hour ago
PHOENIX — A veteran sheriff's deputy was shot and wounded Friday after encountering a group of suspected illegal immigrants who apparently had been hauling bales of marijuana along a major smuggling corridor in the Arizona desert — a violent episode that comes amid a heated national debate over immigration.
State and federal law enforcement agencies deployed helicopters and scores of officers in pursuit of the suspects after the deputy was shot with an AK-47 on Friday afternoon, and the search continued into the night. Deputy Louie Puroll, 53, had a chunk of skin torn from just above his left kidney, but the wound was not serious. He was released Friday night from Casa Grande Regional Medical Center.
The shooting was likely to add fuel to an already fiery national debate sparked last week by the signing of an Arizona law aimed at cracking down on illegal immigration in the state.
Puroll was found in the desert after a frantic hourlong search, suffering from a gunshot wound, Pinal County sheriff's Lt. Tamatha Villar said. The 15-year department veteran had been performing smuggling interdiction work before finding the bales of marijuana and encountering the five suspected illegal immigrants, two armed with rifles.
"He was out on his routine daily patrol in the area when he encountered a load of marijuana out in the desert. He obviously confronted the individuals and took fire," Villar told The Associated Press. "I was speaking with him just a bit ago, and he's doing fantastic."
The deputy was alone about five miles from a rest stop along Interstate 8, about halfway between Phoenix and Tucson. The area is a well-known smuggling corridor for drugs and illegal immigrants headed from Mexico to Phoenix and the U.S. interior.
"Over the past 12 months we've seen an increase in the amount of drugs, and an increase in violence that has been going on in this particular corridor," Villar told KPNX.
"We've had increasing concerns in this area about being outmanned and outgunned, and unfortunately this evening, this is coming true," she added.
The shooting came as Arizona grapples with backlash over its enactment of a tough new law targeting illegal immigration. Civil rights activists, concerned the law will lead to racial profiling, have called for a boycott of the state.
The law signed by Gov. Jan Brewer last week is supported by many in the state, which has become a major gateway for drug smuggling and human trafficking from Mexico.
Its passage came amid increasing anger in Arizona about violence, drug smugglers, drop houses and other problems caused by poor border security.
Villar said the search for the suspects involved numerous helicopters from state and federal law enforcement agencies and scores of officers near Interstate 8 and Arizona 84 about 50 miles south of Phoenix.
"The deputy is a search-and-rescue deputy, so its not uncommon for them to work those areas A) looking for drugs and B) looking for people who need assistance out there," Villar said. "Obviously its a high-traffic area for drug- and human-smuggling."
Dude, you can't post ENTIRE articles. It's a copyright violation.
As is probably obvious, Mesquite is Snowbird is Cactus is Image who apparently has a deep seated obsession with babble. Hopefully, that has been satisfied and he can return to his usual hobbies like improv comedy and valve cover racing.
And he's now been banned AGAIN.
At this point, shouldn't they be alerting his I/P?
he's both obsessed and in possession of waaayyy too much free time.
I was very glad to hear that the Major League Baseball players union came out directly against this and are strongly considering boycotting the 2011 All-Star game.
"This is racist stuff": Baseball Players/Union speak out http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion/557174/this_is_racist_stuff_baseba...
Phoenix to wear 'Los Suns' jerseys for Game 2 vs. Spurs
Managing Partner Robert Sarver decided - with unanimous support from his players - that the Suns would wear their "Los Suns" jerseys in recognition of playing Game 2 against San Antonio on Cinco de Mayo. He also addressed the immigration bill that has been a divisive national topic since Gov. Jan Brewer enacted it into law April 23.
"The frustration with the federal government's failure to deal with the issue of illegal immigration resulted in passage of a flawed state law," Sarver said in a statement released by the Suns on Tuesday morning. "However intended, the result of passing this law is that our basic principles of equal rights and protection under the law are being called into question, and Arizona's already struggling economy will suffer even further setbacks at a time when the state can ill-afford them."
I saw their point guard, Steve Nash, on ESPN last night talking about this and how a lot of their fans are Hispanic and they want to show them that they appreciate the support and are on their side.
By the way, Steve Nash, is a Canadian and thus a "foreigner" living in the United States and I bet HE will get questioned about his legal status about as often as I do, which is to say never.
In Arizona I suspect there are a lot of Snowbirds who have over stayed their 6 months. Anyone saying "eh" should be considered suspicious.
Won't somebody PLEASE think of the salads?
If workers are reluctant to return to Arizona, growers may find themselves short on harvesters, in which case "the crops rot in the field," says Wendy Fink-Weber, director of communications for the Western Growers Association, which represents 90 percent of fruit and vegetable growers in Arizona and California. Greens, which are a finicky crop and demand near-perfect conditions, have only about a five-day harvest window after reaching maturity. Each head of lettuce is cut and packed into boxes by hand. The intensive labor associated with growing lettuce—a $1 billion business for Arizona and the state's highest-value crop—accounts for up to 50 percent of the cost of production.
In Arizona I suspect there are a lot of Snowbirds who have over stayed their 6 months. Anyone saying "eh" should be considered suspicious.
And if you see someone walking through Tucson blasting Gordon Lightfoot on a boombox...call the Migra...NOW! Especially if she or he is really, REALLY polite.
I'm not taking a position pro or con but it is important to understand that since 1940 Federal Law has required all legal aliens to carry their documentation at all times. The Arizona law effectively requires the state to enforce the federal law that's already on the books (as a point of fact, Arizona's law is specifically tied to the Federal regs) so it's unlikely that it will be overturned.
And the law specifically says that police may not use ethnic origin as a reason to ask. However, how anyone will differentiate between the native born citizen whose parents just happened to be Mexican and the "legal Mexican immigrant" and the illegal immigrant is beyond me.
abnormal, please message me about an amazing real estate opportunity in a profitable tourist area.
They don't. It's called racism. That's why this is wrong.
With One Bold Act, Carlos Santana More Than Makes Up For Any Rob Thomas CollaborationsThen in the press box, Santana held an impromptu press conference where he let loose with an improvised speech to rival one of his virtuoso guitar solos. He said, “This law is not correct. It’s a cruel law, actually, This is about fear. Stop shucking and jiving. People are afraid we’re going to steal your job. No we aren’t. You’re not going to change sheets and clean toilets. I would invite all Latin people to do nothing for about two weeks so you can see who really, really is running the economy. Who cleans the sheets? Who cleans the toilets? Who babysits? I am here to give voice to the invisible.”
He went on to say, “Most people at this point they are either afraid to really say what needs to be said, this is the United States the land of the free. If people want the immigration law to keep passing in every state then everybody should get out and just leave the American Indians here. This is about Civil Rights.”
Fantastic Santana...
Cool. Just today we were checking out tickets for the Santana concert here in August. We're supposed to be in Row 24!