Russia 3

614 posts / 0 new
Last post
6079_Smith_W

They wouldn't have wanted to hire him if they didn't like his previous work?

Let's set aside the war and the invasion, and the occupation, and the genocide for a sec, and just look at the assumptions being made just because an important part of the story (the whole reason why they fled) was left out.

Again, do you honestly think the Nazis advertised in Ukraine for editors? That they had a headhunter stationed there? That they would trust a slav to write their propaganda, especially since they had an officer in charge of it? That any of them would even stoop to learning to read Ukrainian so they could understand anything he might have written before? That they needed a native speaker for anything other than editing and making the paper run?

And "spa" might imply high end accommodation to North Americans, but in fact they are a dime a dozen in that part of Europe. Look at a map and see the number of towns named "Bad" (Bath). Bad Woerishofen is actually a famous one (if you are familiar with Kneipp products), but it is hardly a ritzy one. Basically, there is nothing to indicate that he wasn't just put up in a regular hotel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_W%C3%B6rishofen

But of course, cooking up an alternate reality based on nothing other than an omission and a few suggestions is how propaganda works.

NorthReport
quizzical

mithyou said it yourself "trust a slav".

answer only if they knew of his previous work.

6079_Smith_W

Yup, I said it.  I seriously doubt any Nazi official would leave that to someone they considered to be of a lesser race.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

A self proclaimed expert on Nazi's who thinks that Freeland's grandfather was nothing but a copy boy based on his superior analysis of Nazi behaviour.  Sorry not a winning argument actually rather a little grasping at straws.

6079_Smith_W

No. He was the editor. But I'm not the one speculating here about moving across a border during a war to work with the Nazis, so the burden of proof isn't really mine. Though several of the articles point out the paper was supervised by Emil Gassner in German Intelligence.

But again, in answer to the "unvarnished lie" charge about why they had to leave, I'll point out what was going on on both sides of that border at the time. Note the citation in the first section pointing out that it is unclear which side was in fact more dangerous before the Nazis broke the peace agreement several years later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_%281...

More importantly though, I'm also not the one who needs to back up those allegations of denial, which so far are about as substantial as Donald Trump's wiretaps.

6079_Smith_W

The paper's Wikipedia listing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakivs'ki_Visti

(looks like that comma breaks the link. You'll have to cut and paste)

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Here is a link.

6079_Smith_W

Thanks!

The paper (link #4) by John-Paul Himka is worth reading.

NorthReport

And what about Canada or are we asleep at the switch as usual?

Pearl Harbour 2 perhaps?

Troubled waters: Norway keeps watch on Russia's Arctic manoeuvres

But the appearance of calm does not mask the fact that the Russian posture in the high north has changed. Moscow has developed a fleet of increasingly sophisticated submarines and aircraft, which are being tested in the north Atlantic alongside new high-precision long-range missiles. The fear is that Natocould lose the ability to deny Russia naval access to the north Atlantic, and Russia could block or disrupt US reinforcement to Europe.

Russia’s expanding military and the worrying noises from Donald Trump have Norway spending vast sums on defence

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/13/troubled-waters-norway-kee...

NorthReport

What's really going here - is this for internal or external purposes or both?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/vladimir-putin-russia-natio...

NorthReport
6079_Smith_W

dp

NorthReport

Agreed!

And both Putin & Trump know this.

If It Stays in Congress, There Will Never Be a Credible Russia Investigation

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a53829/congress-russi...

 

NorthReport

Along A Shifting Border, Georgia And Russia Maintain An Uneasy Peace

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/03/13/519471110/along-a-shift...

NorthReport

Gazprom Makes Concessions in E.U. Gas Deal, but Trouble Looms for Russian Giant

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/13/business/eu-russia-gazprom.html?_r=0

NDPP

When 'Disinformation' Is Truth   -  by Robert Parry

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/03/13/when-disinformation-is-truth/

"The anti-Russia McCarthyism that has spread out from the United States to encompass the EU, Canada and Australia has at its core an implicit recognition that neoliberal economics and neoconservative foreign policy have failed.

Though arguably a small example, the Freeland story reflects what is happening across the Western mainstream news media. Almost every independent-minded news article that questions the establishment narratives on international affairs, is dismissed as 'Russian propaganda."

NorthReport

 

 

Justice Department charging Russian spies and criminal hackers in Yahoo intrusion

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/justice-departmen...

josh

Republicans, with few exceptions, are desperate to prevent the appointment of an independent counsel. The last thing they want is an independent investigation that they can't control.

NorthReport
NDPP

On Target: Nazis and Canada's Latvian Love-In  -  by Scott Taylor

https://www.newcoldwar.org/nazis-and-canadas-latvian-love-in/

"We are all being bombarded with the 'Russia bad' media rhetoric, but on the other hand we all know that Nazis are really bad. So sending our soldiers to protect a large group of Latvians that are sporting SS runes and celebrating their Nazi past is bound to cause the majority of Canadians some unease...

As with Chrystia Freeland's grandfather and his wartime Nazi collaboration, we need to be honest about Latvia's collaboration, we need to be honest about Latvia's shortcomings and not simply blame everything on those evil Russians spreading falsehoods.

It isn't disinformation if it's true."

josh
quizzical

what an article josh

josh

It was like watching the movie Arrival.  Or Mulholland Drive.

SeekingAPolitic...

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/full-clapper-no-evidence-of-...

Please watch full interview with Clapper(Obama NSA Head).   He comes out and says we have no evidence of collusion between trump and putin.  He made it clear we the NSA, CIA, FBI have nothing on trump.  Forgive mine poor pun  I just played lower bower card in a game of euchre are you holding the anything that trump me.  Please provide the rabble forum with any actual evidence that is NOT hearsay, rumour, or conjecture in regards to the collusion of trump and putin.  Can anyone trump me here because so far read a lot stuff that does even reach the level viable rumour.

 

josh

Clapper responded. “I do think, though, it is in everyone’s interest, in the current president’s interests, in the Democrats’ interests, in the Republican interests, the country’s interest to get to the bottom of all of this, because it’s such a distraction. . . . 

Asked if he still believed the Trump-Russia collusion claims, Clapper stated: “Yes, I do.”

https://www.rt.com/usa/379587-russia-trump-evidence-collusion/

 

SeekingAPolitic...

Let me strees, the NO evidence part again, you can say alot things but you prove them.  Clapper opionon is very nice and all.  But where is the beef?  Once again NSA,CIA,FBI have nothing during his tunure of Obama Head NSA.

josh

There's a lot of circumstantial evidence--the hacking, the disclosure, the meetings--and that's why it's being investigated now by the FBI.  But there needs to be an independent counsel investigating, because the FBI is tainted by Comey's, and its New York office's, role in the election.  Congress won't do it because it is under the control of the Republicans.

SeekingAPolitic...

Good  luck with that.  If there was anything credible, actual evidence I would left this part of the forum alone.  There is a lot heat, but no fire.  Get back to me when have evdience to prove your case because what I hearing is democrat talking points.  And don't forget this surely led to Clinton's defeat at the polls.  Thats the cherry on top of the narrative that you trying to build.

josh

Gee, it only took two years to unearth the smoking  gun in Watergate.  They should have stopped after 6 months. 

SeekingAPolitic...

Actually no IF​ there is actual that evidence that shows rather hearsay I am open minded to accept the truth.  But what I read in this thread is a long long away from proving that trump broke any laws.  Trying to prove trump was workings agaisnt the interest of the state of the US is going to hard to prove.  I just want point out that there is a lot hysteria that is based nothing than more rumour rather than fact. 

josh

Trump lawbreaking is not a sine qua non of wrongdoing.  Others in his campaign may have.  Or he, and others, may have engaged in impropriety not rising to the level of illegality.  Of course, it would help to get a fuller picture of his relationship with Russia if he would release his full tax returns for the last 5-10 years.  But he continues to obstruct that effort.

6079_Smith_W

He didn't say there was nothing on Trump.

He said there was no evidence of collusion between Russia and his campaign team on the election. They already have numerous members of his campaign team, and Trump himself, meeting with Russian officials and lying about it. For that matter, the weakest link, Flynn, has claimed to have a connection to Wikileaks. That's not evidence per se, but why would he say it?

 

 

SeekingAPolitic...

I find myself defending trump, I dont like position but sake of historical fact I must.

Trump lawbreaking is not a sine qua non of wrongdoing.  Others in his campaign may have

​That would be embarassing at most.  Trump eject that person and life moves on.  This whole russia thing stinks of politics, democratics are hunting king of jungle rather than some stragglers.  Regardless of who takes the fall the democrats will not be satisfied until they have destroyed trump.

  Or he, and others, may have engaged in impropriety not rising to the level of illegality.

This a par for the course, unethical behaviour by politicals is expected by a cynical public.  Nothing ground breaking.

Let me tell you what I think is happening. 

A saw a poll recent poll where trump is actual more trusted/popular than the media and democrat party by 10 points.

The democrats have nothing to give the public, no new ideas, no grand welfare schemes, becasue they are tied to the corporate donors.  But they think that attacking trump will improve their political position for the congress/senate figth in 2 years.  If their message is trump a bad man, they will lose again in 2 years.  You have offer something complelling to the public.

Anything that may damage trump politicaly is a democrat election policy.  So that is the reason the democrats want these investagations and foolishly think that they ride trump back to power in 2 years.  Its very important that even if one investagtion leads no where maybe the next investagation will lead somewhere.  So far a lot heat but no fire. 

I was watching CNN and they had a pundit from the democrats I listened very carefully.  After the it was revealed that trump payed 25% tax rate.  The pundit down played the news and carefully start building a new narrative becasue It was proved that trump payed taxes.  Magically the goal post were moved from trump pays no tax, to we need more returns because of russia.   This is key if trump relases his taxes, goal posts will moved again to another demand on trump.  The nature of  what the democrats are trying to do is they will never satisfied with results of there public request on trump. I think the trump organization realizes that giving to democrat demands is not healthly. Will the democrats say I think we have made enough demands on trump. No.  This is a stragety that could used on any topic, the democrats will continue to fish regardless of what they get from the sea.  Why should trump play this game. To me this whole thing is potitical excerise rather than somesort of ethical excerise about the truth.

 

 

 

SeekingAPolitic...

You nailed it the "That's not evidence per se, but why would he say it?

There is no evidence.   I am not mind reader as to Clapper motives, but the NSA,CIA,FBI provide something solid.  Everying else at best is conjecture.

6079_Smith_W

There is no evidence of collusion between Trump and Russia. That is what Clapper said. Not surprising, because that is a hard thing to prove

There is evidence of Russian hacking. Of connections between the Trump campaign and Russia, of perjury in relation to that. Of a coverup about those connections. And an unproven admission of a connection between the Trump campaign and Wikileaks.

And as of this week we have Trump possibly leaking classified information (if he wasn't lying) when he said in an interview that the CIA was hacked during Obama's time in office.

So to say there is no evidence of collusion is not to say there is nothing.

And a lot of people like Trump? So what? A lot of people liked slavery back in the day.

josh

You keep referring to the Democratic Party as the democrat [sic] party.  Which is interesting, because this is how Republicans refer to the party to denigrate it.

voice of the damned

Just to clarify Josh, did you mean to write "Reply to #385"? 

josh

Yes.

SeekingAPolitic...

sorry to brust your bubble josh but I have a half fist sized brain tumour.  My spelling, word choice, and word position are all effected but the tumour as I go thru a slow steady cogintive decline.  I am duly embrassed by my writing skills, I am still sharp but communication skills are getting tricker by the year.

NorthReport
kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I am still waiting for the proper inquiry into the Bush family's connections with the Saudi government especially when Bush the Second was running. I also think that Israel's collusion with many US politicans is well past the due date for a proper investigation.

NorthReport

Chrystia Freeland and the Russian disinformation bogeyman: Walkom

News that seems to back the West’s favourite villain isn't necessarily false.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2017/03/15/chrystia-freeland-...

NDPP

Yahoo Hack: What US Mainstream Media Don't Tell You About a Russian 'spy'

http://sptnkne.ws/dPfp

"One of the culprits is suspected of cooperating with foreign intelligence services, including, apparently, the CIA."

NDPP

'What About Crimea?' Is Latest Narrative By Canada's Foreign Minister  -  by Roger Annis

https://www.newcoldwar.org/what-about-crimea-is-latest-narrative-by-cana...

"...Compared to the economic and violent, war-wracked disaster that Ukraine has become, including the prominent role that extreme-right paramilitaries and political movements play in government decisions there (another fact scrubbed out of Western media reporting) life prospects in Crimea look quite good.

But don't look in the Globe and Mail or in Minister Freeland's press releases for that sort of news. 

Instead of counseling peace and reconciliation in Ukraine and peace with Crimea, successive Canadian governments have poured fuel onto the combustible mix that is Ukraine.

Canadians should demand an end to provocative and inflammatory sanctions against Russia..."

 

Deal With It: Poklonskaya Says Kiev Should Get Used To Crimea's Russian Identity

http://sptnkne.ws/dPCk

"On Thursday, Crimea marked the anniversary of the 2014 referendum which saw the peninsula break off from Ukraine and rejoin Russia.  In an exclusive interview for Sputnik, Natalya Poklonskaya, the lawmaker who bravely served as Crimea's prosecutor during the Crimean Spring, offered Kiev and Western officials some advice about Crimea's status..."

josh
SeekingAPolitic...

This whole idea that trump is a maunchurian canadiate propogated by the Dems is huge gamble.  They pushing so hard on this narrative, hell we probably have babblers who believe that idea.  The issue has not been settled maybe the authorites will dig up system but so far the big zero.  My political instincts are screaming caution, Dems with the help certain media outlets are pushing this idea with so little solid evidence. 

Lets do a thought experiment, 1.  It turns out that trump in the pocket of the russians.  Trump is badly hurt maybe to the point impeachment, but effectively his political agenda is finished.  Dems and media look like heros for pushing for the investigation of trump.  They squash any political dissenters in the party because they so much political capital, the DNC decides they no need to change anything because trump has crippled politically.  They probably take the senate back and make inroads in the congress. 

2.Nothing is found to indicate that trump is league in with russia.  The media looks like a they are a pack of fools, trump maniupatles public opinon that effectively the trust for the MSM media is tranished to point that majority of people think that trump is a  victim.  Further media discoveres on trump are largely ingorned by the general public.  The Dems face a general back lash from the public and patricularly democrat supporters who believed the narrative the Dems were spinning.  Politicaly any resistance to trump collaspes from the Dems and because they are to busy figthing among themseleves.

Politicaly this situation is a Mad Max world where 2 enter the thunderdome and only 1 leaves.  Trump will cripple the Dems or the Dems will destroy Trump as political force. The Dems have invested so much political capital into the idea that trump is tool of russia.  They have could have waited until the conclusion of the various probes into the matter .  If something was found then you can for bore at trump, why not wait before the siutation is cleared up.  Its like the Dems set the range to full and the boiling water is going over edge.  The smart thing to is set the water to simmer and then react to facts and not make up facts.  Instead they have turned the heating rods to maximum, ripped out the nob that controls heat and for good measure throw it out the window.  The anti trump/russia hysteria is really amazing. 

My personal theory as why the Dems did not set thing to simmer is the political forces that represent stays quo benefit from the situation.  It focuses the party on one target, trump and people are to busy to question why the dems lost the election.  It was russia fault rather than looking for more complaicated reasons. 

 

SeekingAPolitic...

Britain

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/12/british-democracy-at-ris...

Once again we find ourselvess in a situation there is no evidence of russia attacking uk democracy.   You have read scary putin stuff be will find once again 0 as in zero evidence that the British democracy interfered with.

Germany

http://www.politico.eu/article/german-intelligence-finds-no-evidence-of-...

Good thing becasue it keeping a lot germans late at night.  Now germans can sleep well again knowing that false claims have been put to rest.

I may be sensing a pattern here.

But call me crazy perhaps the russians are not political masters of the USA, Britian, Germany. Just a wild thought.

 

 

 

NorthReport

A brief history of Russian interventions in other people’s elections

Russia has a habit of involving themselves in other country's politics

http://www.salon.com/2017/03/18/russian-interventions-in-other-peoples-e...

NDPP

The 'habit' is here...

Overthrowing Other People's Governments: The Master List (2013)

https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governmen...

Russia/Crimea, NATO-Backed Coups & Cold War 2.0

https://www.rt.com/shows/going-underground/381236-crimea-nato-cold-war/

"We speak to the [representative of the] Russian Council on Foreign and Defence Policy and former UK Defence Minister Sir Gerald Howarth..."

Pages