Saudis retaliate after Canada criticizes human rights violations

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josh

They definiitely wouldn't have done it without a green light from him.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Singh has a brilliant idea. We can get our oil from other countries. Let's stop doing any and all business with Saudi Arabia..Fuck them. We are now alone on the world stage and thst"s fine. If the US needs or wants our help in the future we must turn our backs on them.
This is a real oppurtinity to become like Switzerlamd..neutral. After we stop dealing with SA we can get our independence from the US. Fuck them..we are now alone. Lets do business with Mexoco and South America and the Nordic Europeans..we don"t need those bastards..we can do fine doing business with friendlier countries. I agree strongly with Singh

voice of the damned

I predict that in a year's time, Canada's trade-relations with the KSA will be pretty much the same as they are now. Granted, I'm not on the ground, so to speak, but I'm really not sensing a lot of Take Yer Oil And Shove It sentiment among the general population, however much some people might get a certain nationalist pride from rallying around Freeland's tweets and Trudeau's soundbites.

NDPP

Opinion: If We Have To Mud-Wrestle Another Country, Let It Be This One

https://t.co/vDoDCvIYJt

"Canada vs Saudi Arabia..."

bekayne

WWWTT

josh wrote:

Also, gutless twits.

How so? Different countries have different cultures practices and laws. And these generaly reflect the expectations of the peoples in their respective countries and to keep order and civility to their standards. Not Canada's standards, or any other country. In fact, to believe other countries in the world should adopt Canadian standards (if we could even get a consensus on what Canadian standards are?) is an arrogant attitude.

If the people of Saudia Arabia feel that their countries leaders should be doing things differently, then why don't the Saudi people do something?????So really Josh, who's really the gutless twits in all of this?

The reason why I believe the Saudi government gets away with all of this is in their own country is probably because the vast majority of people there support it. 

Inviting Saudi youth over to Canada for an education (that the Saudis were more than happy to pay for in spades) was an excellent opportunity to expose the Saudi youth to a society that has more equality and multiculturalism! The Saudi youth would only return home after graduation with an more optomistic vision of how a society can evolve! 

And this is a huge loss for Canada! Probably because this was the only way Canadians (and not the Canadian government) could really help. Thank you team liberal shit for brains!

But hey, at least some people on the so called left can get angry at something they will never have any control over and we can all read about it here on the internet.

josh

I was referring to the U.K. and the EU.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

bekayne wrote:

The greatest thing about this cartoon is it is the truth. I'm sure you could find a live picture of the same thing.

NorthReport

Canada is acting like the bull in the china shop. If Trudeau had savoir faire he would have realized that you don’t poke the bear. Quiet, out of sight diplomacy was the way to deal. Once again Liberals are showing their ineptitude

cco

WWWTT wrote:

If the people of Saudia Arabia feel that their countries leaders should be doing things differently, then why don't the Saudi people do something?????


Just a hunch: Perhaps because, in Saudi Arabia, the penalty for criticizing Mohammed bin Salman is torture followed by public beheading, if you're lucky. You could ask the residents of Awamiyeh how well they're getting along by suggesting that the leaders do things differently.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Canada is acting like the bull in the china shop. If Trudeau had savoir faire he would have realized that you don’t poke the bear. Quiet, out of sight diplomacy was the way to deal. Once again Liberals are showing their ineptitude

By far the most idiotic partisan comment in this thread. The Liberals tweeted a milds criticism and Saudi Arabia acts like we just dropped a bomb on them. They even threatened a 9/11 attack on us . On a very mild critique. Poking the bear? more like poking the petulant child.

Did you know that Singh wants to cut ties with Saudi Arabia? Are you even aware that an NDP government would most definitely give the Saudis the same criticism?

Have another drink,bin Laden.

josh

No need for that.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

josh wrote:

No need for that.

No need for his stupid partisan comments that favour the Saudis over Canada. As I said,the NDP without a doubt would criticize SA for the same thing. I bet you the Saudi Royals fortune that he'd be singing a much different tune if it were the NDP that did what Canada did. Which was the right thing to do,BTW.

ETA Jagmeet Singh has come out with the idea of severing tires with SA. I guess he's poking the bear,huh?

NorthReport

Alan, how many times will you have to be bounced before you stop your really stupid dumb-ass trolling!

Please give us all a rest and go back to sleep.

NorthReport

Unfortunately some people never learn

quote=alan smithee]

NorthReport wrote:

Canada is acting like the bull in the china shop. If Trudeau had savoir faire he would have realized that you don’t poke the bear. Quiet, out of sight diplomacy was the way to deal. Once again Liberals are showing their ineptitude

By far the most idiotic partisan comment in this thread. The Liberals tweeted a milds criticism and Saudi Arabia acts like we just dropped a bomb on them. They even threatened a 9/11 attack on us . On a very mild critique. Poking the bear? more like poking the petulant child.

Did you know that Singh wants to cut ties with Saudi Arabia? Are you even aware that an NDP government would most definitely give the Saudis the same criticism?

Have another drink,bin Laden.

WWWTT

cco wrote:
WWWTT wrote:

If the people of Saudia Arabia feel that their countries leaders should be doing things differently, then why don't the Saudi people do something?????

Just a hunch: Perhaps because, in Saudi Arabia, the penalty for criticizing Mohammed bin Salman is torture followed by public beheading, if you're lucky. You could ask the residents of Awamiyeh how well they're getting along by suggesting that the leaders do things differently.

 

Ya and I don't doubt it. But it's still up to them.

Canada also has laws against treason (life improsonment max. penalty) It also wasn't until 1998 that Canada finally purged the death penalty from the military, so really in theory, it has only been 20 years since Canada has been completely free from the death penalty.

Also from some quick reading, Saudia Arabia population up until the 1950's was mostly nomadic herding. Here's a link that should help shed some light on the gender gap deeply rooted in their faith/culture.

http://wondersofsaudiarabia.blogspot.com/p/people-of-saudi-arabia.html

cco

WWWTT wrote:

Canada also has laws against treason (life improsonment max. penalty) It also wasn't until 1998 that Canada finally purged the death penalty from the military, so really in theory, it has only been 20 years since Canada has been completely free from the death penalty.

In practice, on the other hand, the last person executed for treason on Canadian soil was Louis Riel in 1885, and the last (and only other) Canadian citizen executed for treason was Kanao Inouye in 1947, a rather atypical case.

Quote:

Also from some quick reading, Saudia Arabia population up until the 1950's was mostly nomadic herding

I'm aware of Saudi history. My wife comes from that region. I'm deeply familiar with Arab culture.

I also don't give a shit. I, too, grew up surrounded by rednecks. At a certain point, "my great-grandfather was an illiterate shepherd" ceases to be an excuse for "I order the torture and public execution of those who displease me from my gold-plated iPad aboard my private jet."

NDPP

Loud & Clear: Enabling Saudi Crimes (podcast) @17:45

https://www.spreaker.com/user/radiosputnik/nato-warplanes-fire-missiles-...

"Dozens of people, including many children were killed in Yemen by an airstrike launched by the Saudi-led coalition waging war on that country. The bombing, which hit a school-bus is causing outrage around the world. 

Medea Benjamin, an anti-war activist who is the co-founder of Code Pink joins the show."

"If the world stood up to the Saudis this could end. But they don't. They always go with the Saudi money..." - Medea Benjamin - Code Pink-. An excellent interview with Benjamin on how to stop the Saudis.

NorthReport

This may make Trudeau look good in Canada but I doubt the people imprisoned in Saudi Arabia will be thanking him any time soon

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-the-badawis-will-probably-be-in-saudi-prisons-longer-now-thanks-to-canada

NDPP

As it Happens: Saudi Student Fears Jail or 'Maybe Worse' If He's Forced To Leave Canada (and podcast)

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-thursday-edition-1.47...

"I love my country. I love Saudi Arabia. But the Saudi government is a really bad government and they are absolutely against human rights."

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

As it Happens: Saudi Student Fears Jail or 'Maybe Worse' If He's Forced To Leave Canada (and podcast)

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-thursday-edition-1.47...

"I love my country. I love Saudi Arabia. But the Saudi government is a really bad government and they are absolutely against human rights."

So, had this guy applied for asylum before the Saudis ordered him back? Seeing as how he claims he has long been in danger of torture etc should he return.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Alan, how many times will you have to be bounced before you stop your really stupid dumb-ass trolling!

Please give us all a rest and go back to sleep.

Oh..IM trolling? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. If the Liberals did everything the NDP wants (which they are) you STILL would be attempting to tear them apart. I'm trolling..that's rich coming from you.

I casll out bullshit and your 2 comments about 'poking the bear' and ;'ineptitude' sounds pretrty Saidi friendly.

Ineptutude? And the Saudis aren't?

The only party in this who need a thorough trashing is Saudi Arabia NOT Canada. And if you can't figure that out you're either deluded or a liar.I think personally that you are the latter.

Deal with the fact they did the right thing and we were threatened by sn Islamic State,a theocrocy  So how about you go to sleep and sleep off your Saudi defense. You're drunk on your partisanship.

The only thimgt the Liberals got wrong was not tweeting a criticism of Israel. And even if they did,regardless how right wing Likud is. they wouldn't take a hissy fit and blow things totally out of proportion like the child prince did. I highly doubt that they would immediately threaten us with a 9/11 style terror attack. 

And there is nothing there in this comment that is breaking babble rules. And I will continue to call out bullshit everywhere and anywhere I seee it. Sadly the most bullshit I read here comes from you. That's a fact. Deal with it. Or stop trying to spin everything the LIberals do to fit your own personal narrative. It;s disingenuous and dishonest. Maybe you can take a break from that for a while.

 

quizzical

alan smithee wrote:

quizzical wrote:

ya i listened to a huge rant today about "bad Canadians"

I'm curious where you heard that, Ranting against Canada is like ranting about a glass of water. If the ranter (s) wasn't Saudi then they can fuck right off.

it was some Saudi guy ranting.

and you onow been thinking about all this proxy war crap pushed by oil and Canada could just as easily become a proxy war site between them all too.

Russia just above and the USA below....just sayin trashing Canada and sowing divisions is just a first step in dehumanizing....

WWWTT

cco wrote

I also don't give a shit. I, too, grew up surrounded by rednecks. At a certain point, "my great-grandfather was an illiterate shepherd" ceases to be an excuse for "I order the torture and public execution of those who displease me from my gold-plated iPad aboard my private jet."

What you are saying here doesn't make sense? 

I believe that the ruling class, are well educated in western nations. Also did a quick search and this link came up pretty quick. It's a little dated but worth the short read

https://foreignpolicy.com/2007/12/18/the-real-story-of-saudi-arabias-rul...

Change comes fairly slow in the ME/Arab nations, I think this is something we can all agree on?

And really cco, if you don't give a shit, then why are you commenting? What is it you don't give a shit about? I really don't give a shit either about the state of affairs in Saudia Arabia because I do not know have any connections to there. My concern is how the liberals are making things worse for their own political gain here in Canada.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

quizzical wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

quizzical wrote:

ya i listened to a huge rant today about "bad Canadians"

I'm curious where you heard that, Ranting against Canada is like ranting about a glass of water. If the ranter (s) wasn't Saudi then they can fuck right off.

it was some Saudi guy ranting.

and you onow been thinking about all this proxy war crap pushed by oil and Canada could just as easily become a proxy war site between them all too.

Russia just above and the USA below....just sayin trashing Canada and sowing divisions is just a first step in dehumanizing....

Quite the opposite. Ive been calling on Canada to cut ties with Saudi Arabia. You can confirm that by the comments I made after that particular one.

I also have been repeating like a parrot that Canada was right. They made a very mild comment and the child prince had a tantrum and Saudi Arabia even threatened us with a 9/11 attack. They posted a picture of an Air Canada plane heading towerd the CN Tower.  I'm not kidding. Even some Americans were disrturbed since it was pretty much a confirmation that the Saudis were behind 9/11. Even if most people believed that already.

The Child Prince may have been doubly mad since it was a woman who did the tweet. I gaurantee it.

There's a lot of reasoins why we should cut ties with them. (a) for this temper tantrum that happened a few days ago (b) they are the most misogynist country on earth (c) they literally crucify people (d) they jail anyone in the country who have the nerve to criticize them. Punishing them with lashings and even worse things (e) their threat of a major terorist attack on us (f) they are the epicentre of jihadists. They practice Wahhabism which is the nut case sect of Islam. (g) they open mosques around the world who practice this insanity.

So I agree with Liberals for at the least criticizing them on human rights and to free their political prisoners. Something that the Conservatives would dare not do as well as the US and the UK  Who did not stand up for Canada. They proved they are not our allies that they fawn of the Saudi Royals. We are alone.Something to think about when one of these countries (mostly the US) ask for our help no matter what it is.

Lastly I strongly agree with Jagmeet Singh when he says we should cut our ties with SA. Something the Liberals dont't have the fortitude to do. We are still buying SA product (oil) which is complete insanity.

So don't tell me I'm dehumanizing Canadians. On the contrary. I stand up for Canada.

You may have notice this if you didn't cherry pick my quote.

I swear,I don't know what it is but people here just want to start fights with me instead of respectively debating issues. And you're one of them.

WWWTT

Don't always agree with Huffpost but sometimes theres the odd good writer. Here's another link that I found insightful

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/firas-alatraqchi/saudi-arabia-canada-chrys...

But perhaps the Foreign Ministry could avoid blindly drawing inspiration from the Trumpian School of social media diplomacy. Freeland should slap a moratorium on using Twitter for communicating foreign policy directives, especially in regard to sensitive issues.

Unionist

alan smithee wrote:

quizzical wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

So don't tell me I'm dehumanizing Canadians. On the contrary. I stand up for Canada.

You may have notice this if you didn't cherry pick my quote.

I swear,I don't know what it is but people here just want to start fights with me instead of respectively debating issues. And you're one of them.

You know alan, why not re-read quizzical's post and tell me where she is accusing YOU of dehumanizing Canadians. We all get a little sensitive. But she wasn't even talking about you in that post. She was obviously referring to that "Saudi guy" she heard. Unless I missed something. Time to relax and reconsider.

cco

WWWTT wrote:

And really cco, if you don't give a shit, then why are you commenting? What is it you don't give a shit about?

Saudi excuses for misogyny, torture, dictatorship, and theocracy being part of their "culture".

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

If the people of Ontario, Saskatchewan and Manitoba feel that their provincial leaders should be doing things differently, then why don't the people do something?????

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Unionist wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

quizzical wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

So don't tell me I'm dehumanizing Canadians. On the contrary. I stand up for Canada.

You may have notice this if you didn't cherry pick my quote.

I swear,I don't know what it is but people here just want to start fights with me instead of respectively debating issues. And you're one of them.

You know alan, why not re-read quizzical's post and tell me where she is accusing YOU of dehumanizing Canadians. We all get a little sensitive. But she wasn't even talking about you in that post. She was obviously referring to that "Saudi guy" she heard. Unless I missed something. Time to relax and reconsider.

 I think quizzical can speak for herself.

She quoted me. So yes,I thought she was taking about me. As I said,everyone here has a problem with me. I don't start fights and I don't go on the attack unless I'm provoked. Bad temper. And I'm a fists first liberal or  what ever you want to call me. I don't believe in peace.

And I have a habit of using naughty words  in my posts. Apart from that I don 't know why people pile up on me.Most of us here have the same values and political leanings. We're on the same team. Most of the time you wouldn't believe it.

quizzical

alan smithee wrote:

quizzical wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

quizzical wrote:

ya i listened to a huge rant today about "bad Canadians"

I'm curious where you heard that, Ranting against Canada is like ranting about a glass of water. If the ranter (s) wasn't Saudi then they can fuck right off.

it was some Saudi guy ranting.

and you onow been thinking about all this proxy war crap pushed by oil and Canada could just as easily become a proxy war site between them all too.

Russia just above and the USA below....just sayin trashing Canada and sowing divisions is just a first step in dehumanizing....

Quite the opposite. Ive been calling on Canada to cut ties with Saudi Arabia. You can confirm that by the comments I made after that particular one.

I also have been repeating like a parrot that Canada was right. They made a very mild comment and the child prince had a tantrum and Saudi Arabia even threatened us with a 9/11 attack. They posted a picture of an Air Canada plane heading towerd the CN Tower.  I'm not kidding. Even some Americans were disrturbed since it was pretty much a confirmation that the Saudis were behind 9/11. Even if most people believed that already.

The Child Prince may have been doubly mad since it was a woman who did the tweet. I gaurantee it.

There's a lot of reasoins why we should cut ties with them. (a) for this temper tantrum that happened a few days ago (b) they are the most misogynist country on earth (c) they literally crucify people (d) they jail anyone in the country who have the nerve to criticize them. Punishing them with lashings and even worse things (e) their threat of a major terorist attack on us (f) they are the epicentre of jihadists. They practice Wahhabism which is the nut case sect of Islam. (g) they open mosques around the world who practice this insanity.

So I agree with Liberals for at the least criticizing them on human rights and to free their political prisoners. Something that the Conservatives would dare not do as well as the US and the UK  Who did not stand up for Canada. They proved they are not our allies that they fawn of the Saudi Royals. We are alone.Something to think about when one of these countries (mostly the US) ask for our help no matter what it is.

Lastly I strongly agree with Jagmeet Singh when he says we should cut our ties with SA. Something the Liberals dont't have the fortitude to do. We are still buying SA product (oil) which is complete insanity.

So don't tell me I'm dehumanizing Canadians. On the contrary. I stand up for Canada.

You may have notice this if you didn't cherry pick my quote.

I swear,I don't know what it is but people here just want to start fights with me instead of respectively debating issues. And you're one of them.

 

no no didnt mean you dehumanizing i meatb Trump first now Saudi Arabia are and Russia tooo.

sorry for confusion

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

quizzical wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

quizzical wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

quizzical wrote:

ya i listened to a huge rant today about "bad Canadians"

I'm curious where you heard that, Ranting against Canada is like ranting about a glass of water. If the ranter (s) wasn't Saudi then they can fuck right off.

it was some Saudi guy ranting.

and you onow been thinking about all this proxy war crap pushed by oil and Canada could just as easily become a proxy war site between them all too.

Russia just above and the USA below....just sayin trashing Canada and sowing divisions is just a first step in dehumanizing....

Quite the opposite. Ive been calling on Canada to cut ties with Saudi Arabia. You can confirm that by the comments I made after that particular one.

I also have been repeating like a parrot that Canada was right. They made a very mild comment and the child prince had a tantrum and Saudi Arabia even threatened us with a 9/11 attack. They posted a picture of an Air Canada plane heading towerd the CN Tower.  I'm not kidding. Even some Americans were disrturbed since it was pretty much a confirmation that the Saudis were behind 9/11. Even if most people believed that already.

The Child Prince may have been doubly mad since it was a woman who did the tweet. I gaurantee it.

There's a lot of reasoins why we should cut ties with them. (a) for this temper tantrum that happened a few days ago (b) they are the most misogynist country on earth (c) they literally crucify people (d) they jail anyone in the country who have the nerve to criticize them. Punishing them with lashings and even worse things (e) their threat of a major terorist attack on us (f) they are the epicentre of jihadists. They practice Wahhabism which is the nut case sect of Islam. (g) they open mosques around the world who practice this insanity.

So I agree with Liberals for at the least criticizing them on human rights and to free their political prisoners. Something that the Conservatives would dare not do as well as the US and the UK  Who did not stand up for Canada. They proved they are not our allies that they fawn of the Saudi Royals. We are alone.Something to think about when one of these countries (mostly the US) ask for our help no matter what it is.

Lastly I strongly agree with Jagmeet Singh when he says we should cut our ties with SA. Something the Liberals dont't have the fortitude to do. We are still buying SA product (oil) which is complete insanity.

So don't tell me I'm dehumanizing Canadians. On the contrary. I stand up for Canada.

You may have notice this if you didn't cherry pick my quote.

I swear,I don't know what it is but people here just want to start fights with me instead of respectively debating issues. And you're one of them.

 

no no didnt mean you dehumanizing i meatb Trump first now Saudi Arabia are and Russia tooo.

sorry for confusion

I'm sorry for the mix up too. And I'm actually a little embarrassed by it.

But on the subject you are right. I read that Trump is pushing the Saudis to attack us. True or false, I can believe it. And if the US and the Saudis are in cahoots,the Russians are probably pushing Trump to push the Saudis. What a mess.

We are alone. We have no allies. So if the US calls on us for help in the next war they wage, I would like Ottawa to say, ' No thank you. That's YOUR problem'  I don't think that's going to happen however.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

WWWTT wrote:

Don't always agree with Huffpost but sometimes theres the odd good writer. Here's another link that I found insightful

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/firas-alatraqchi/saudi-arabia-canada-chrys...

But perhaps the Foreign Ministry could avoid blindly drawing inspiration from the Trumpian School of social media diplomacy. Freeland should slap a moratorium on using Twitter for communicating foreign policy directives, especially in regard to sensitive issues.

My first thought when the story broke was what kind of idiot is using Twitter to deliver Canadian foreign policy to an ally. Heh I hate this ally more than most but the idea that they are not an integral part of the NATO+ alliance is ridiculous. I was gob smacked by the delivery method used for a call for the "immediate release" of a Saudi citizen. To quote a smart Canadian, the medium is the message.

Conducting diplomacy by Twitter is as effective as arguing with your significant other over text: assumptions are made, issues are misunderstood and room for a needless spat becomes abundant.

While governments have in recent years used social media to make statements on the nature of their relationships, such as to announce brokering a peace deal or trade agreement, they shouldn't be conducting sensitive diplomatic negotiations or applying pressures via these platforms.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Freeland should slap a moratorium on using Twitter for communicating foreign policy directives, especially in regard to sensitive issues.

I would like to think that if governments (or anyone, really) said "let's set out to create a system by which people can communicate complex and important things immediately and easily", nobody would add "Yes!  But let's make sure they can only type 280 letters or numbers!".

Perhaps in 2003:  "The Millenial Party of Canada released its policy platform entirely using emoticons today.  Critics are already saying 'dollar bill, infant, house, frowny face, disgusted face, poop'".

NDPP

While it is true that Chrystia Freeland's ill-considered tweet was the instigator of a diplomatic fiasco which will almost certainly cost Canada billions -  a sacking offence in any other foreign ministry  - I am glad she blundered nonetheless, because it has inadvertently opened up a discussion of issues that Canadians were thus far unable or unwilling to have about our relationship to this barbaric, bloodthirsty regime.

Canadians can no longer feign ignorance about these murderous monsters we do business with. And now that we know, it is incumbent upon our people to keep the heat on the asses of the politicians, who are even now working hard to 'fix' the damage and get the next shipment of killing machines ready for a customer among the richest in the world, who brings brutal horrific war, bombardments, a starvation siege and pestilential plagues upon the poorest of the poor, as an international coalition bombs children on school-buses in crowded markets.

What a wonderful gesture it would be to 'Canadian values' if, as with the scourge of South African apartheid, we declared an immediate end to our dirty business as usual with the KSA and urged others to do the same.  For it is true what they say, 'When the people lead, the leaders will follow .' Here and across the world. Let it be soon.

NDPP

"Yemeni journalists found this fragment of the bomb Saudi Arabia dropped on a school bus full of children in Yemen. It's a US-made MK-82 guided bomb which has been used in previous attacks on Yemeni civilians. The cage code on the bomb is Lockheed Martin's"

http://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1028328310223331333

Hey, I know a guy who might know something about that seeing as he was in the same business. Remember NATO's Canadian commander, Charles 'the Bomber' Bouchard...He was good at bombing kids too. The NDP called him a 'hero'. Look at the great gig he has now...

http://aiac.ca/members/lockheed-martin-canada

And here's another unindicted Canadian war criminal from yesteryear. He flew to Libya and found the Benghazi Al Qaeda rebels Canada supported 'impressive. Now he thinks the same about the KSA Royal House of Headchoppers, for which they pay him very handsomely I'm sure. Loves their Israeli friends too of course. It's kind of a package deal. So now a word from John Baird...

https://twitter.com/imans3/status/1028153423785545729

NDPP

Saudi Arabia Mocks the World...  -  by Elijah J Magnier

https://ahtribune.com/world/2419-saudi-arabia-mocks-the-world.html

"...No impartial observer can fail to notice that Saudi Arabian money today leads the great power nations around by the nose. The much-vaunted 'western values' are evidently for sale at the bazaar. Indeed, the world's silent attitude - which includes Canada - towards the horrible human calamity of the Saudi daily bombing of Yemen and the support it provides to terrorism (i.e. - al Qaeda in Syria and Yemen, and ISIS in Syria) boost Saudi confidence to mock western values with impunity..."

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

What a wonderful gesture it would be to 'Canadian values' if, as with the scourge of South African apartheid, we declared an immediate end to our dirty business as usual with the KSA and urged others to do the same.

Well, not to beat a dead horse here, but if the comparison is with apartheid South Africa, then that would mean comprehensive sanctions against the regime. Which in the case of the KSA, would mean not buying any more oil.

Jagmeet Singh has said that we should buy oli from somewhere else, but, as far as I know, hasn't suggested any other suppliers. Perhaps he's waiting for "the people" en masse to recommend some?

NDPP

This is the NDP way when an issue can no longer be ignored. Tell the people what they want to hear. I'll be very surprised if you hear much more...

voice of the damned

But even Yves Engler stops short of mentioning an oil boycott, in his recent rabble piece demanding that Canada "go all in" for its fight against the Saudis.

Basically, as far as I can tell, there is no stomach, anywhere on the political spectrum, for an actual economic confrontation with the KSA.

https://tinyurl.com/ydbrxnr6

NDPP

No surprise to me on the gutless wonders in government. They almost always follow the money.  But 'go all in' means what it says. As for the weapons sales, Canada's existing law says that if the preponderance of evidence is that it could be used against civilian populations then the deal has to be off.  Do Canadians really want to help the Saudis murder Yemenis?  I think not. But they will have to bestir themselves enough to send an email or make a phone call. Are you up to that?

WWWTT

NDPP wrote

What a wonderful gesture it would be to 'Canadian values' if, as with the scourge of South African apartheid, we declared an immediate end to our dirty business as usual with the KSA and urged others to do the same.  For it is true what they say, 'When the people lead, the leaders will follow .' Here and across the world. Let it be soon.

Canadian values??? Canadian law/political/social infrastructure is based on English and French law/political/ social infrastructure. NOT the Indigenous peoples of Canada! Canada=colonial extension on Indigenous peoples lands.

The Saudi system is based upon the Indiginous peoples of Saudia Arabia. What you call the Saudi regime, the royal family is actually a monarchy. Canada's official head of state,  Queen Eliabeth 2 is represented by the governor general luitenents, every year Canada pays millions

https://www.businessinsider.com/canadas-cost-to-support-the-royal-family...

The Saudi royal family, the ruling class, is probably the most western educated western exposed people in the country, they are propbably only doing the bidding of the peoples of the country (Indiginous males). I posted links up thread to support this.

The comparison to South Africa is improper.  In South Africa, European people were ruling over the vast majority indiginous peoples, making laws putting the Indiginous peoples into reserves and barring them basic fundamental rights. Many tens of thousands of peoples were involved in protesting fighting the apartheid government from within Africa.

Basically what posters here are pissed off with from reading the comments is that Saudia Arabia gives women unequal rights and their harsh penal justice system. 

My approach to resolving these problems is that it is up to the peoples of Saudia Arabia to resolve their own issues through slow process of growth and evolving by exposure. The posters here taking my polar position feel that the Saudi social political judicial system is evolving too slow and must be expediated! But absolutely no consideration is given to the CONSEQUENCES of sudden change! This is typical colonists beliefs! If the posters here feel that Saudia Arabia needs to change right now, and if they do and chaos breaks out, who bears responsibility????

What the liberals are doing is basicall not so subtle dog whistle politics. In their persuit to get political support (just as the conservatives) in Canada, they are creating/looking for an enemy they can fight against to make themselves look like the defenders of feminism. 

Here's an link showing a comparison countries situation where evolution was allowed to guide their growth.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/08/country-that-didnt-let-women...

 

WWWTT

NDPP wrote:

No surprise to me on the gutless wonders in government. They almost always follow the money.  But 'go all in' means what it says. As for the weapons sales, Canada's existing law says that if the preponderance of evidence is that it could be used against civilian populations then the deal has to be off.  Do Canadians really want to help the Saudis murder Yemenis?  I think not. But they will have to bestir themselves enough to send an email or make a phone call. Are you up to that?

liberals aren't going to get ANY votes next election defending the people of Yemen. Guess why? There's not many Yemen Canadian voters.

liberals will only stick their necks out for votes in their bid to get reelected.

The liberals are desperate to find an enemy or wedge issue and the human rights record of a foreign country is a perfect politicians dream come true! 

The Saudia Arabia government will never be on any Canadian ballot, never at any leaders debate, now will any other politician defend the Saudis.

And the most ironic thing is that human rights in Saudia Arabia as a result of the reaction in Saudia Arabia to Freelands comments will probably be stalled by ten years! But as the liberals have shown, they care less about anyone else as long as they get the votes!

 

 

progressive17 progressive17's picture

If this were a normal country, Freeland would have been forced to resign over her lack of Twitter diplomacy. She had no government or diplomatic experience before appointed to the job. She has made a mess of the NAFTA file. She has antagonized Russia. She is the most wretched foreign minister Canada has ever had.

Trudeau has to fill the post with a woman, in order to maintain gender equity in the cabinet. The problem is that there are fewer women in the rump of the Liberal caucus that he can pick from, as the majority of elected Liberal MPs are men. He therefore needs to find a woman with similar (or better) experience in government and foreign affairs to replace Freeland. Either that, or he can choose a man to replace Freeland, but then he would have to depose another man and replace him with a woman.

It could be that there simply isn't the talent there. Trudeau is not exactly Albert Einstein, and the sycophants descend from there.

NDPP

And now Canada is simultaneously trying to extract political gain from its 'principled stand' while suck-holing behind the scenes for all its worth for the intercession of Warshingtin. In exchange, it will be further slapped around and punished by the imperium for its stupid impertinence and  will have to pay a big price. And I don't even want to think what NAFTA is going to look like...

'READ OUT': Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister speaks with US Sec Pompeo'

https://twitter.com/CanadaFP/status/1028397738264850432

CBC's Cross Country Checkup is doing the Saudi Spat @ 4:00 pm CT. It will be interesting to see which side of the matter they push by call selection. 

'Are We Prepared To Pay the Price of Standing Up to Repressive Regimes'

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/checkup/are-we-prepared-to-pay-the-price-of-sta...

The only honourable position for Canadians is to demand an immediate end to  Saudi arms sales and their compliance with universal human civil and political rights they have already agreed to. A complete cessation of relations until they do. Fuck their oil too. 

josh

progressive17 wrote:

If this were a normal country, Freeland would have been forced to resign over her lack of Twitter diplomacy. She had no government or diplomatic experience before appointed to the job. She has made a mess of the NAFTA file. She has antagonized Russia. She is the most wretched foreign minister Canada has ever had.

Trudeau has to fill the post with a woman, in order to maintain gender equity in the cabinet. The problem is that there are fewer women in the rump of the Liberal caucus that he can pick from, as the majority of elected Liberal MPs are men. He therefore needs to find a woman with similar (or better) experience in government and foreign affairs to replace Freeland. Either that, or he can choose a man to replace Freeland, but then he would have to depose another man and replace him with a woman.

It could be that there simply isn't the talent there. Trudeau is not exactly Albert Einstein, and the sycophants descend from there.

For her to resign now would be a victory for the Saudis.  And how do you know the tweet wasn’t cleared ahead of time.

NDPP

A view from the UK, who also sells Saudi arms 

May, Hunt Silent As UK's Best Arms Customer  Kills Dozens of Children in Yemen

https://on.rt.com/9c7j

"The UK licensed 4.7 billion of arms  to Saudi Arabia since the war in Yemen began. The crime and UK's direct and abject complicity in it, should be the subject of huge media coverage and particularly debate in the UK, but it's not...How many more children in Yemen need to be killed by Saudi air strikes or die from malnutrition, cholera or other diseases before Theresa May will stop supplying this catastrophic, murderous war and start taking action to end it?"

Anthony Fenton is an excellent and well informed Canadian analyst on these matters. He is apparently to be interviewed today. Also @ 4 pm. Assume that's CT

"Anthony Fenton will provide a primer on Canada's relations with Saudi Arabia. We'll talk about the arms deal, the Cdn Wheat Board, 'ethical oil' and more. Sunday, Aug 12 @ 4 PM."

https://twitter.com/RFRadioPrairie/status/1028385923589918720

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Well, if we are going to be serious about Saudi Arabia, when do we start bombing?

bekayne

progressive17 wrote:

She had no government or diplomatic experience before appointed to the job. 

She was Minister of Trade.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
If Trudeau had savoir faire he would have realized that you don’t poke the bear. Quiet, out of sight diplomacy was the way to deal. Once again Liberals are showing their ineptitude

I seem to recall people saying, over the years, that the government should stand up to corrupt countries, and plainly tell them to their faces.

And nationalize things, too, IIRC.

Is this a case of "be careful what you wish for, in case a Liberal gives it to you?"

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