Sinking of South Korean warship Part II
May 31, 2010 - 9:39pm
Here is part I
Anyway, what I have is new is that the Russians are sending some expert investigators of their own. Seems the North Koreans don't trust the Merricans and other allies of South Korea to conduct an unbiased investigation. I can't imagine why they'd think that! [/sarcasm]
Russian studies sinking probe, etc.
Russian experts arrived in Seoul on Monday to review findings of an investigation that blamed North Korea for the deadly sinking of a South Korean warship, while thousands of troops practiced fending off an attack from the North near the rivals' tense border.
There's what appears to be a well-researched article over at the (Canadian) Communist Youth blog about The Sinking of the Cheonan: Another Gulf of Tonkin incident. Good footnotes.
For those who don't know, a number of "incidents" took place in the Gulf of Tonkin in 1964 after which the US Congress passed a resolution giving President Johnson "carte blanche" or a blank cheque to engage in war with Viet Nam. In the key incident, there were no Vietnamese vessels involved ... other than those in the feverish anti-communist imagination of the Yanquis.
Did An American Mine Sink The South Korean Ship?
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19428
North Korea has developed a "super drink" that, it says, can multiply brain cells and stop skin ageing.
The secretive state's official news agency, KCNA, says the drink contains 60 kinds of "microelements" extracted from more than 30 species of plants.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10237314.stmSo they mixed Oil of Olay and an energy drink.
This may all just be a variation on a theme North Korea has played for a long time. Rattle their sabre, perhaps to the point of doing something threatening but promising they'll never do it again if they get offered aid. Rinse and repeat.
The Cheonan Incident: Korea Rising
http://www.counterpunch.org/lee06042010.html
"Lee's 'Vision 3000' reunification policy - an assisted suicide program for the North Korean regime predicated upon it opening up its economy to foreign trade and investment while delaying integration until North Korea per capita incomes had roughly tripled to US$3000 - has started to generate some investment bank heat.
South Korea's latest Vision 3000 video-conference was hosted by Goldman Sachs...It appears Lee would prefer to treat northern Korea as the low-wage, resource-rich hinterland that powers the West-oriented-export-economy of a united and pro-US Korea..."
disaster capitalism at work on an Asian Haiti solution
South Korean Ship-Sinking: Another False Flag?
http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2010/06/south-korean-ship-sinking-another-...
"Besides constant Middle East tensions, more now loom after North Korea was blamed for the March sinking of South Korea's Cheonan warship near the western border with the North.."
In the biting the hand that feeds you category:
China says a North Korean border guard shot and killed three people near the countries' border last week.
A fourth person was reportedly injured in the incident near the north-eastern border town of Dandong.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10263325.stmIn the biting the hand that feeds you category:
China says a North Korean border guard shot and killed three people near the countries' border last week.
A fourth person was reportedly injured in the incident near the north-eastern border town of Dandong.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10263325.stm
I can imagine the nice reception that Canadians trying to cross the American border illegally to "trade" would receive. Oh that evil North Korea doing things no civilized country would even consider.
My point, K1951, and I have one, is that North Korea has very few friends in the world, China being the most prominent, and therefore shooting Chinese citizens, for whatever reason, may not be wise. If you want to spin it as the morality tale you seem to have, feel free.
My point is that anything some countries do is vilified even something as normal as shooting at border intruders. We do it on our border. Do you think if the Americans shot Canadians going across the border it would hurt our relationship with them?
This is a non story and it is ridiculous it even got reported in Canada. The spin cycle is always on high when it comes to some countries.
Well let's see how the BBC handles a comparable issue on the Mexico-US Border:
Mexico has demanded a full inquiry after a Mexican teenager died after a US border patrol agent opened fire from the US side of the border.
The youth, believed to be 14 or 15, was found on the Mexican side under a bridge linking Ciudad Juarez with El Paso.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10271034.stmThe US Border Patrol says rock attacks on its agents are frequent and capable of causing serious injury.
The issue of illegal migration, and the treatment of Mexicans on the border, is a source of abiding tension between the US and Mexico.
Last week Mexico made similar protests over the death of a Mexican migrant after he was given electric shocks by US agents who were trying to deport him.
Mexico's foreign ministry says its records show so far this year 17 Mexican nationals have been killed or injured by US immigration authorities, up from 12 last year and five in 2008.
China has made a formal complaint to North Korea, a spokesman for the Chinese foreign ministry said.
The two countries are considered to be close allies and Beijing rarely makes any public criticism of its isolated neighbour.
Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang told a regular news conference in Beijing that the four residents of Dandong, in Liaoning province, had been shot "on suspicion of crossing the border for trade activities".
"China attaches great importance to that and has immediately raised a solemn representation with the DPRK," he said, using North Korea's full name (Democratic People's Republic of Korea).
Close allyMr Qin said the case was being investigated, but gave no further details. Pyongyang has not commented on the accusations.
Illegal traders regularly cross the border between North Korea and China, taking black market goods into the impoverished country.
China is North Korea's main trading partner and the country perceived to have the most influence on the state.
They demanded a full inquiry in both scenarios but nothing in their ongoing relationships changed. Why is this a prominent issue to be followed in Canada. We know 4 people were killed on the North Korean border but apparently the 17 killed or injured on the border with our NAFTA trade partners is not as newsworthy.
That is the point I am making. What the US does is acceptable but when North Korea does the same they are the devil incarnate. I think both the US and N. Korea are murderous regimes so no I am not giving North Korea a free pass.
In the biting the hand that feeds you category:
China says a North Korean border guard shot and killed three people near the countries' border last week.
A fourth person was reportedly injured in the incident near the north-eastern border town of Dandong.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10263325.stm
North Korea's relationship with China (killing of Chinese persons on the border, the (possible responsibility for) sinking of the Cheonen,
is the same as Isreal's relationship with the U.S.A. (the attack on the Mavi Marmara and repeated attacks on USS Liberty in 1967.)
The United States studied a plan for a nuclear strike on North Korea in 1969 ... declassified documents showed Wednesday.
... In 1969, North Korea shot down a US spy aircraft over the Sea of Japan (East Sea), killing the 31 personnel on board. Despite US outrage, the new Nixon administration chose not to retaliate other than to order a continuation of flights and go ahead with naval exercises.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100623/pl_afp/nkoreanuclearweaponsushistor...
Good story. Lots of spy plane flights over NK and former Soviet Union. And then there was a spy satellite launched in 1960, the Corona. Canadian physicist Stanton Friedman said they managed to keep that one a secret from public knowledge for 35 years. The information it picked up on the Soviets and Korea was more valuable to them than U2 and Blackbird combined.
UN Security Council condemns sinking of ship
The statement, read by the council president at a meeting Friday morning, calls for "appropriate and peaceful measures to be taken against those responsible."
But it doesn't identify who is responsible, and "takes note" of North Korea's response "that it had nothing to do with the incident."
South Korea had wanted the council to condemn the North. But China, the North's closest ally, opposed any direct condemnation.
It's all goddam lies from start to finish. Perhaps another attempt by the representatives of Yanqui imperialism to start a war in southeast Asia.
LA Times: Doubts Surface on North Korea's Role in Ship's Sinking
The mouthpieces of the Obama regime had the following to say:
A model of repulsive liars maybe, spoon-fed the lies from their Yanqui overlords.
Shin, who was appointed to the joint investigative panel by the opposition Democratic Party, inspected the damaged ship with other experts April 30. He was removed from the panel shortly afterward, he says, because he had voiced a contrary opinion: that the Cheonan hit ground in the shallow water off the Korean peninsula and then damaged its hull trying to get off a reef.
"It was the equivalent of a simple traffic accident at sea," Shin said.
The Defense Ministry said in a statement that Shin was removed because of "limited expertise, a lack of objectivity and scientific logic," and that he was "intentionally creating public mistrust" in the investigation.
USA! USA! How many kids did you kill today?!
Renewed American Threats: Building a Pretext to Wage War on North Korea?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20227
Korea is not in Southeast Asia
According to the source, traces of RDX and TNT were discovered on the sheared section of the ship and metal debris from the site. An analysis of the explosives showed that the mixture matches those used in countries of the former communist bloc, such as Russia, China and North Korea.
"While RDX's composition is similar worldwide, TNT mixtures differ from those used in the United States and England and others used in the former communist bloc," he said. While South Korean weapons use American-style TNT, North Korea manufactures arms by the Chinese and former Soviet models.
"By analyzing the mixtures of TNT, a crucial ingredient of a torpedo, we can conclude the builder," he said
Korea is not in Southeast Asia
Where is it located, then?
NORTHeast Asia...
And in terms of self-identification, yes, Koreans definitely talk about their country as being part of Northeast Asia.
Beijing, 9 July: South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun said Wednesday [9 July] cooperation between Seoul and Beijing to realize the vision of peace and prosperity in Northeast Asia, including North Korea, is "the call of the times".
"South Korea and China have to seriously discuss how to prepare for the era of Northeast Asia," Roh said in a speech at Qinghua University.
link
Northeast Asia it is.
I'm not going to bother responding to Mailibog's links to some pathological anti-communist crypto-fascist website. That would be a waste of time.
http://www.korea-dpr.com/
For an interesting viewpoint, visit the "Forums" section.
N. Beltov wrote:
Being anti-Communist does not make you a fascist.
The regime in North Korea starved around 10 percent of its own population. The country contains concentration camps larger than Washington D.C. Medical care outside the propaganda showpiece of Pyongyang does not exist. People live on a diet of mostly corn gruel, rice is a luxury rarely ever seen, and meat is never seen. Do to malnutrition the people of North Korea suffer stunted growth and mental retardation. Anyone that speaks out against the regime will be sent to North Korean gulags. Guilt transcends three generations of anyone the regimes views as disloyal. So, you have children in concentration camps for so called crimes of their grandparents.
Now, why would anybody view opposing such a regime be considered a fascist?
N.Beltov wrote:
This is not historically accurate:
On July 31, 1964, the destroyer USS Maddox commenced a Desoto patrol off North Vietnam. Under the operational control of Captain John J. Herrick, it steamed through the Gulf of Tonkin collecting intelligence. This mission coincided with several 34A attacks, including an August 1 raid on Hon Me and Hon Ngu Islands. Unable to catch the fast South Vietnamese PTFs, the government in Hanoi elected to strike instead at USS Maddox. On the afternoon of August 2, three Soviet-built P-4 motor torpedo boats were dispatched to attack the destroyer.
Cruising twenty-eight miles offshore in international waters, Maddox was approached by the North Vietnamese. Alerted to the threat, Herrick requested air support from the carrier USS Ticonderoga. This was granted, and four F-8 Crusaders were vectored towards Maddox's position. In addition, the destroyer USS Turner Joy began moving to support Maddox. Not reported at the time, Herrick instructed his gun crews to fire three warning shots if the North Vietnamese came within 10,000 yards of the ship. These warning shots were fired and the P-4s launched a torpedo attack.
Returning fire, Maddox scored hits on the P-4s while being struck by a single 14.5-millimeter machine gun bullet. After fifteen minutes of maneuvering, the F-8s arrived and strafed the North Vietnamese boats, damaging two and leaving the third dead in the water. The threat removed, Maddox retired from the area to rejoin friendly forces.
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/vietnamwar/p/gulfoftonkin.htm
So,
North Vietnamese gunboats were involved and tried to attack a US Navy Vessel. This is not in dispute. The controversy surrounds the second attack. It is not known if there was another attack by the Communist Vietnam or the Navy misjudged radar data. Anybody with radar experience knows this occurs frequently due to such things as weather or even flocks of birds.
From the same article:
There is no conspiracy by the US Government. Furthermore, the US was already involved in the War. The US had enough justification to support the Republic of Vietnam do to the North's attacks and infiltration of the South. The Johnson administration did not need the Gulf of Tonkin incident to get what he wanted in Vietnam. It just made it easier to get a resolution thru Congress. Thus, the importance of incident is overblown.
About the KFA forum. The KFA (Korean Friendship Association) is nothing more than a small band of crazies run by a Spanish national that is a known psychopath. He is making his crust running propaganda tours into North Korea. Think of a Communist version of your typical BNP member in the UK. There will always be people that are attracted to evil and think it is cool. Like teenagers who claim to worship Satan or members of the KFA pledging their support for a Stalinist dictatorship.
Ha ha . You're actually trying to recycle that crap? ha ha ha ah ah ah aha ha ha!
There is no conspiracy by the US Government. Furthermore, the US was already involved in the War. The US had enough justification to support the Republic of Vietnam do to the North's attacks and infiltration of the South. The Johnson administration did not need the Gulf of Tonkin incident to get what he wanted in Vietnam. It just made it easier to get a resolution thru Congress. Thus, the importance of incident is overblown.
You are right there is no conspiracy only Yankee gunboat diplomacy with 21st century weapons. In my view america should learn to excuse the other people on the planet who don't understand why there is an overriding american interest in their natural resources. I know bombing the crap out of people is the time honoured way to spread american democracy but I suspect the bombed don't get the same feeling of elation as the bomber.
So do you support the world being in a continuous state of war?
Malibog, you DO realize that there's no chance whatsoever of overthrowing the North Korean government, don't you?
And that there's no reason to assume that "market values" would suddenly result in food for all?
Nobody has any ideas that would actually make anything better in North Korea. At the moment, the place is a dead loss, and no intervention from western capital would do it any good.
The Cold War is over....for the love of God, DON'T try to bring it back. It didn't help anything the first time.
Shock Wave and Bubble: The Untruth about the Cheonan
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20408
"'Proof' that the Cheonan was sunk by North Korea has been thoroughly discredited.."
In other North Korean news:
Former US President Jimmy Carter may be heading to North Korea to negotiate the release of a US man jailed there, according to US media reports.
Aijalon Mahli Gomes, 31, was sentenced in April to eight years' hard labour after being found guilty of illegally entering the country.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11069484