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Tour de France

Sven
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Joined: Jul 22 2005

Two questions:

1.  Will Lance Armstrong win his eighth Tour later this month (he's a mere 0.22 seconds behind the race leader after six (of 21) stages)?

2.  When will someone from France next win the country's premier sporting event (there is only one Frenchman in the top 50 racers: Jérôme Pineau, in 34th position)?

 


Comments

Sven
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Joined: Jul 22 2005

Well, with 19 of 21 stages complete, it looks like Armstrong is still in a battle for a podium place.  Contador, barring a freak accident, has the yellow jersey sewn up.  At 25 years old, Contador is likely going to win several more races in coming years.  At 37, Lance did extremely well...though he's definitely past his prime.

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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!


North Shore
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Joined: Jan 27 2005

I read, yesterday, that Armstrong is forming a new team for next year.  Depending upon how good his support is, I wonder if he might be up for the yellow next year?  There were a few times this year that, it seemed to me, he was holding back, and playing the team game...


Sven
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Joined: Jul 22 2005

North Shore wrote:

I read, yesterday, that Armstrong is forming a new team for next year.  Depending upon how good his support is, I wonder if he might be up for the yellow next year?  There were a few times this year that, it seemed to me, he was holding back, and playing the team game...

Yeah, I heard the announcement yesterday that his new team will be sponsored by Radio Shack.

As far as Lance holding back -- I just don't think that's in his character.  He wants to win.  I just don't think, at 37 years old, he can compete for the yellow jersey any more.  Frankly, it's amazing that he's even in the running for a podium spot.  When I heard that he was coming out of retirement to race again, I figured he'd be lucky to make to Top 50 in the Tour.  He's surprised me.

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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!


North Shore
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Joined: Jan 27 2005

Umm, not sure about that age thing - if you look back, Joop Zoetemelk won in the early '80's when he was 39.  Admittedly, IIRC, some of his best competitors were injured that year...  Doesn't take much for someone to have a bad day in the mts, and the race for GC is all over..


North Shore
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Joined: Jan 27 2005

Umm, not sure about that age thing - if you look back, Joop Zoetemelk won in the early '80's when he was 39.  Admittedly, IIRC, some of his best competitors were injured that year...  Doesn't take much for someone to have a bad day in the mts, and the race for GC is all over..


Sven
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Joined: Jul 22 2005

Well, the "old fart" (as he called himself) has a podium position.  Unbelievable.  And Contador?  What a champion.

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North Shore
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Joined: Jan 27 2005

Indeed, and he'll be back and better next year, IMHO. I was wondering, idly, if he'd recruit Jens Voigt for his team next year?  I'm kinda pissed at Contador because of dropping Kloden the other day...


Catchfire
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Joined: Apr 16 2003

There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a two-year federal criminal investigation followed by Travis Tygart's unconstitutional witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense.


Caissa
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Joined: Jun 14 2006

I frankly don't care much on the issue. Anti-doping is the 21st c version of amateurism. I favour letting them use whatever performing enhancing substances they wish to use. Time to put WADA out of business and let Dick pound sand.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

[wasn't worth saying twice]


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

Caissa wrote:

I favour letting them use whatever performing enhancing substances they wish to use.

Agreed. Or, in the alternative, ban the use of all substances which confer unfair individual advantage. Like money.


Sineed
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Joined: Dec 4 2005

If everybody in elite-level cycling was doping, then Lance is still the best athlete, whether he was doping or not. So he should keep his yellow jerseys.


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

"Lance Armstrong" - even his name sounds performance-enhanced.

God, I wish I could care more about this issue. Can we move it to babble banter please?

 


Slumberjack
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Joined: Aug 8 2005

Down in Texas from where Armstrong hails, this has to be seen as yet another plot by socialists in the White House to disparage American heroism.


Catchfire
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Joined: Apr 16 2003

What a surprise. Lance Armstrong cheated after all.

Actually, the bigger surprise is how long people thought he was the one true flame in cycling...turns out not only was he always a cheat, he was a bully and a spiteful, vengeful asshole.


Caissa
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Joined: Jun 14 2006

I have no objections to athletes using performing enhancing drugs.


Sven
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Joined: Jul 22 2005

Catchfire wrote:

...turns out not only was he always a cheat, he was a bully and a spiteful, vengeful asshole.

He is a monumental fraud.


Caissa
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Joined: Jun 14 2006

WADA is a monumental waste of time and money.


Sven
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Joined: Jul 22 2005
Caissa wrote:

I have no objections to athletes using performing enhancing drugs.

As a matter of principle, I don't care if performance-enhancing drugs are permitted or not. But I do care if I am lied to and, given the mountain of evidence against him, I think it's clear that Armstrong is a liar.

Catchfire
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Joined: Apr 16 2003
Yes, but there's also the fact that these drugs are harmful. We need only look at the basketful of twentysomethings who died of heart attacks in the 1990s to realize they're dangerous, and that those with the ability to properly inform consent are either a) without all the facts, or b) dishonest lying liars.

Sven
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Joined: Jul 22 2005

Catchfire wrote:
Yes, but there's also the fact that these drugs are harmful. We need only look at the basketful of twentysomethings who died of heart attacks in the 1990s to realize they're dangerous, and that those with the ability to properly inform consent are either a) without all the facts, or b) dishonest lying liars.

A lot of illegal drugs are dangerous...hell, alcohol and tobacco are dangerous and those can be used legally...but I'm still in favor of letting individuals make those decisions for themselves.

There are a lot of things that have risk in life...eating too much fat, downhill skiing, motorcycle riding, not exercising, riding a bicycyle without a helmet (even riding with a helmet has dangers), base-jumping, etc., not to mention a long list of Darwin Award "winners"...and I'm inclined to let individuals make those decision for themselves.


Sven
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Joined: Jul 22 2005
With the ICU's decision today regarding Lance Armstrong and his seven Tour de France "victories," his collapse is nearly complete.

Slumberjack
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Joined: Aug 8 2005

Well, he's made a lot of money over the years, probably invested enough of it to live a comfortable life.  Barring the additional publicity of criminal charges, he can opt to recede into obscurity if his narcissism will allow it.


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

The Tour de France is still deciding whether they are going to force him to return the prize money he won.  His team won in the neighbourhood of $4,000,000.  Something like that might just wipe out his pension fund.


Bacchus
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Joined: Dec 8 2003

As well as possible lawsuits by sponsors and the government. He could lose everything, hopefully.

 

Down to the last testicle


Unionist
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Joined: Dec 11 2005

What about his fundraising efforts? Anyone check to see whether that's a scam too?

Are these endowment funds legit?

What about this:

Quote:
LIVESTRONG utilizes a sound investment strategy to manage its endowment which is overseen by a seasoned corps of leading investment professionals. This strategy has both optimized the growth of the endowment while also providing a stable source of income to support current operations. In order to meet today's needs while protecting tomorrow's resources, the LIVESTRONG Revenue Development Committee maintains an investment policy using the "prudent person" standard to make both investment and spending decisions.

Just wondering.

 


Caissa
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Joined: Jun 14 2006

Strripping winners of their titles does not change the fact that they won.


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

I presume that was the reasoning behind not awarding the first place title to the second place rider but instead just saying he cheated and thus his win is irrelevant.  If I caught someone sneaking an ace out of their sleeve while playing poker I would not think of them as the best poker player only a cheat who got caught. There might even be a better cheater at the table I didn't catch but that doesn't change the fact that the person would be returning all the night's winnings not just the one hand. The part I find ironic is who knows how many of the other riders in that race were doing the same thing as the UPS team but didn't get caught.  Maybe they should just asterisk the whole era.


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

I agree with Sineed.


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

The big thing in his statement is if everyone was cheating.  I have no trouble believing that many if not most were cheating but I have a hard time with the concept that every single athlete from every single country was cheating.  I think it just gives guys like him a free pass.  Your a Mom so tell me do you accept that excuse from kids as well.  "But Mom everyone is doing it."  I know I didn't have much time for that excuse with my kids and I still don't buy it from my Grandchildren.

Doping is a serious health concern for young athletes and they need to know that if you get caught you lose not its okay because everyone else is doing it. I know with my son who played sports I would not have had a talk about things like steroids that went; "go ahead take those drugs I don't want Grandchildren anyways so don't worry about sterility or any of the other potential side effect just go out and win."


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