The Trump administration 2

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MegB
The Trump administration 2

Continued from here.

Issues Pages: 
Paladin1

Quote:

"In response to O'Reilly's denunciation of Putin, Trump stated: 'There are a lot of killers. We've got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country is so innocent?'

I understand to many Trump can and will never do anything right or positive. Anything he does will be evil.If he kisses a baby then it's only to get a taste of flesh so he can get the CIA to abduct the baby later so he can eat it.

I'm not saying Trump isn't 101 shitty things but this statement is really important. Here is a US leader who is finally pointing out the US aren't knights on shinning horses.  They assassinte people. They cause factions in the world to fight each other and supply both sides with weapons. They don't worry too much about civilian causalties with their drone strikes. The US does a lot of bad shit and has a lot of blood on their hands.  It's nice to see someone admit to it. Hopefully, and it's a stretch, Trump does something about that and begins cleaning up the US foreign policy and war business.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Do you think Trump's point was:

a)  "... so let's not go accusing people of stuff"

b)  "... so we should be equally critical of Putin and also our own administration"

c)  "... so we should be equally critical of Putin and also the previous administration"

You have to admit, if his rebuttal was, as you suggest, practically a confession, it should be interesting to see how he follows that up, yes?

Rev Pesky

I think some read too much into this statement of Trump's. One thing we know for sure about hiim is that he is not introspective. The other thing we know is that he says more or less what pops into his mind at the moment. He often contradicts his prior statements very shortly thereafter.

So far as I know, the USA is still killing people with drones, still doing all those things that 'killers' do. It may just be that Trump doesn't see the necessity of being polite about the killing. After all, it's not as if the ICC is going to grab the president of the USA and hold for trial...

josh
voice of the damned

re: Trump's "killers" comment...

As I said on the previous thread, Trump gave the Iraq War as his example of what America's killers do. Given that he claims to have always been against that war, he probably did want his audience to think that that was an example of something he would not do.

That is, to the extent that he was thinking tactically at all. Most likely, it was just a convenient bit of "whatabouterry" that popped into his head. It's one of the most common fallbacks used in debate, so it's not surprising that Trump, speaking off the top of his head, would latch onto it.

I wouldn't go as far as Paladin in framing this as some sort of important milestone in US political discourse, but it is interesting(dare I say refreshing) to see a POTUS so casually toss out a blunt truth like that, even if put forth for self-serving purposes. I still rememeber Michelle Obama being raked over the coal by conservatives for saying that her husband's election was "the first time in my life that I'm proud to be an American". Can you imagine how they would have reacted if she had said "What's so bad about Putin? We've got a few killers over here!"

 

josh

In an escalation of Democratic efforts to highlight questions about President Trump's potential conflicts of interest and alleged ties to Russia, a senior House Democrat is dusting off a little-used legislative tool to force a committee debate or floor vote on the issue.</p>

Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) filed a "resolution of inquiry" Thursday, a relatively obscure parliamentary tactic used to force presidents and executive-branch agencies to share records with Congress. Under House practice, such a resolution must be debated and acted upon in committee or else it can be discharged to the House floor for consideration. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/02/09/democrat-moves-to-force-house-debate-on-trumps-alleged-business-conflicts-and-russia-ties/?utm_term=.f67acb6ccc5f 

 

josh

I know we're not supposed to bring this up — but it is staring us brutally in the face. I keep asking myself this simple question: If you came across someone in your everyday life who repeatedly said fantastically and demonstrably untrue things, what would you think of him? If you showed up at a neighbor's, say, and your host showed you his newly painted living room, which was a deep blue, and then insisted repeatedly — manically — that it was a lovely shade of scarlet, what would your reaction be? If he then dragged out a member of his family and insisted she repeat this obvious untruth in front of you, how would you respond? If the next time you dropped by, he was still raving about his gorgeous new red walls, what would you think? Here's what I'd think: This man is off his rocker. He's deranged; he's bizarrely living in an alternative universe; he's delusional. 

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/02/andrew-sullivan-the-madness-of-king-donald.html

 

 

 

Rev Pesky

In a complete about-face, Trump is back to the 'one China' policy.

Trump reverses direction on China

Quote:
U.S. President Donald Trump changed tack and agreed to honour the longstanding "one China" policy during a phone call with China's leader, a major diplomatic boost for Beijing which brooks no criticism of its claim to neighbouring Taiwan.

...A White House statement said Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping had a lengthy phone conversation on Thursday night Washington time.

"President Trump agreed, at the request of President Xi, to honour our 'one China' policy," the statement said.

...China has claimed sovereignty over Taiwan since 1949, when Mao Zedong's Communist forces won the Chinese civil war and Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalists fled to the island.

...The White House described the call as "extremely cordial" with both leaders expressing best wishes to their peoples.

"They also extended invitations to meet in their respective countries. President Trump and President Xi look forward to further talks with very successful outcomes," the White House statement said.

Well, that was quick. From threats of war to 'extremely cordial' in a couple of days.

The story is a bit disingenuous in that while it's true that China sees Taiwan as part of China proper, it's also true that Taiwan saw itself as part of mainland China right up until the moment they realized that they were never going to overthrow the mainland government. That was sometime in the 1990's.

Sean in Ottawa

Rev Pesky wrote:

 

The story is a bit disingenuous in that while it's true that China sees Taiwan as part of China proper, it's also true that Taiwan saw itself as part of mainland China right up until the moment they realized that they were never going to overthrow the mainland government. That was sometime in the 1990's.

I do not agree with this. While I do not have the latest polls and I realize that time is running out for unification, Taiwan was for many years split roughly between about 1/3 wanting indpendence declared, 1/3 wanting to join China soon or now, 1/3 wanting to join China later with conditions (presumably after things get better from their perspective. This split means that the needle for joining or not moves with that 1/3's definition of how likely their conditions can/will be met, their optimism, and timeline.

I would not exaggerate any desire there for a full break with China as I don't think there is a consensus for that. Here often this is presumed to be becuase of a threat from the PRC but it is much more complicated and quite emotional an issue.

We have to recognize that Taiwan is made up of a local Tawanese population along with people whose grandparents left China and want those ties. Those grandparents have siblings in China mainland, Hong Kong, and abroad. (I know more than one family exactly like that.) We should not allow prejudice against the PRC to underestimate the desire for reunification among a significant portion of the population -- all be it on terms and conditions that vary by person.

The migration to Taiman in 1949 changed a dynamic in which you can see Taiwan as being mostly independent historically from China (the place failed regimes would go to as well as being controlled by outsiders).

As well the Nationalists when they went to Taiwan left representing China and took with them national treasures that belong to all China. It woudl be impossible to have civil discussion about a break from China without that coming up. However, there is little desire on both sides (from the population) I think to have such a conversation adn the government alternates between those closer to or further from mainland.

For many the view of Taiwan is over-simplified (as is Tibet).

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

It's certainly very little, and it's not high on my list of things Trump might want to do a one-eighty on, but it's interesting to see him walk it back, for the first time ever.  One only wonders what led to Bann-  er, Trump, having such an about-face.

bekayne

Mr. Magoo wrote:

It's certainly very little, and it's not high on my list of things Trump might want to do a one-eighty on, but it's interesting to see him walk it back, for the first time ever.  One only wonders what led to Bann-  er, Trump, having such an about-face.

The mean man yelled at him on the phone

Rev Pesky

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
...I do not agree with this. While I do not have the latest polls and I realize that time is running out for unification, Taiwan was for many years split roughly between about 1/3 wanting indpendence declared, 1/3 wanting to join China soon or now, 1/3 wanting to join China later with conditions (presumably after things get better from their perspective. This split means that the needle for joining or not moves with that 1/3's definition of how likely their conditions can/will be met, their optimism, and timeline...

I was speaking of the Taiwanese government's position.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
The mean man yelled at him on the phone

Sad.

But Trump will build a wall that makes his look like a kerb.

quizzical

wth he  had a who can lat the longest hand shake match with the Japanese PM?

Sean in Ottawa

Rev Pesky wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
...I do not agree with this. While I do not have the latest polls and I realize that time is running out for unification, Taiwan was for many years split roughly between about 1/3 wanting indpendence declared, 1/3 wanting to join China soon or now, 1/3 wanting to join China later with conditions (presumably after things get better from their perspective. This split means that the needle for joining or not moves with that 1/3's definition of how likely their conditions can/will be met, their optimism, and timeline...

I was speaking of the Taiwanese government's position.

Does not make sense -- they have had multiple changes of government since the 1990s so the Taiwanese government has had no position going back that time.

Rev Pesky

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
...Does not make sense -- they have had multiple changes of government since the 1990s so the Taiwanese government has had no position going back that time.

Could you rephrase this to make it understandable.

To make my position clear (I thought it was, but...) the government of Taiwan, up until the 1990's took the position that they were part of mainland China,and that they, the Taiwanese government, were the legitimate government of all of China.

The abandoned that position when they realized there was no chance they would ever actually rule over mainland China.

Sean in Ottawa

Rev Pesky wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
...Does not make sense -- they have had multiple changes of government since the 1990s so the Taiwanese government has had no position going back that time.

Could you rephrase this to make it understandable.

To make my position clear (I thought it was, but...) the government of Taiwan, up until the 1990's took the position that they were part of mainland China,and that they, the Taiwanese government, were the legitimate government of all of China.

The abandoned that position when they realized there was no chance they would ever actually rule over mainland China.

Taiwan has not had the same government through that time and so it has not had a consistent opinion. Some governments of Taiway have been much more open towards eventual reunion than others.

The governmetn have reflected the opinion of the people which wavers on this. They also ahve had scandals in government that have also affected the politics and when China has been to bellicose the more independent minded party is more likely to win.

NorthReport

America has a huge media problem which led to Trump getting elected. CNN and the other cable networks in the name of ratings and profits gave Trump the free platform he needed to mount his campaign, and the sooner the mainstream media is put out of its misery the better

http://www.salon.com/2017/02/11/trumps-attacks-on-the-press-and-how-the-...

NorthReport
NDPP

Trump Policy Continues Purposefully Fueling Terrorism

https://t.co/8cq6VWRmyZ

CIA Honors Saudi Crown Prince For 'Efforts Against Terrorism'

https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/830287567442628608

 

NorthReport
NorthReport
quizzical

did the president of the USA say Pocahontas is now the face of the democratic party? yup

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/video/trump-on-warren-pocahontas-is-now-th...

josh

More Bannon fascism-love. He probably looks on Trump as Il Douche.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/10/world/europe/bannon-vatican-julius-ev...

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:
America has a huge media problem which led to Trump getting elected. CNN and the other cable networks in the name of ratings and profits gave Trump the free platform he needed to mount his campaign, and the sooner the mainstream media is put out of its misery the better
">http://www.salon.com/2017/02/11/trumps-attacks-on-the-press-and-how-the-...

There is nothing mainstream about the media anyway and it has not been that way in some time.

Those who attack the mainstream media are whipping a dead horse.

The media has long split into multiple self-customizable streams of infomration such that each person has their own media universe of their own creation.

One of the seide effects of this is massive confimation bias abd where there were low standards there are now none at all.

It is time we stop nfighting the old battle against mainstream midea and face the present information war as it really is.

I'll start: The main stream media had some independence from most govenrments before it disintegrated. What it is being replaced with is a battle where many of its replacements support one or other party more directly than the kind of bias we used to see. Where we saw bias we now have outright fabrication that used to be more rare. There is no longer a nationalistic bias but now one specifically for one party and against another. The direct conflicts are now so legion that people don't even remark on them anymore.

Back in the day, the main stream media was arrogant, biased but still fairly independent. More recently it was allowed to be part of larger interests that did more than media and developped more stark conflicts (like in Canada when Bell was able to buy enough media that it could largely reduce and shape stories it did not like about itself). Eventually things got tot he point where the mdeia became more an more aligned with political parties such that they are effectively merging. This is a very key component of Facism.

So complaining about the old single large main stream media was a thing but it is largely unhelpful especially as we celebrate its demise while spending little attention to what has already been moving to replace it -- a Fascistic relationship between politics and a new media devoid of any shame or standards that has no independence whatsoever -- not even the arms-length relationships that existed previously.

People really need to look at the other side of the coin soon before it is too late.

In other news Trump is threatening to crack down on anti-Trump humour.

Rev Pesky

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
...What it is being replaced with is a battle where many of its replacements support one or other party more directly than the kind of bias we used to see....

Growing up in BC, I remember there were two dailys, the Vancouver Sun, and the Vancouver Province. If you voted Liberal, you took the Sun, and if you voted Conservative, you took the province. There was no paper for the CCF/NDP.

So yes, the newsprint media was clearly divided politically. That's a tradition that goes back a long way. Check out the political cartoons from the late 1800's and early 1900's. Some pretty close to slander and libel material.

josh

While Bannon loves him some Italian fascists, another assistance to Il Douche loves him some Hungarian fascism

http://lobelog.com/why-is-trump-adviser-wearing-medal-of-nazi-collaborat...

Sean in Ottawa

Rev Pesky wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
...What it is being replaced with is a battle where many of its replacements support one or other party more directly than the kind of bias we used to see....

Growing up in BC, I remember there were two dailys, the Vancouver Sun, and the Vancouver Province. If you voted Liberal, you took the Sun, and if you voted Conservative, you took the province. There was no paper for the CCF/NDP.

So yes, the newsprint media was clearly divided politically. That's a tradition that goes back a long way. Check out the political cartoons from the late 1800's and early 1900's. Some pretty close to slander and libel material.

It was still nothing like what we are seeing today though -- as bad as it was.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Rev Pesky wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
...What it is being replaced with is a battle where many of its replacements support one or other party more directly than the kind of bias we used to see....

Growing up in BC, I remember there were two dailys, the Vancouver Sun, and the Vancouver Province. If you voted Liberal, you took the Sun, and if you voted Conservative, you took the province. There was no paper for the CCF/NDP.

So yes, the newsprint media was clearly divided politically. That's a tradition that goes back a long way. Check out the political cartoons from the late 1800's and early 1900's. Some pretty close to slander and libel material.

It was still nothing like what we are seeing today though -- as bad as it was.

That is a matter of opinion and I think our history of partisan media is both as old as newspapers and has always been extremely bad.

In the US the first thing the Patriots did when they began the "revolution" was to have mobs burn down all the Loyalist presses.  That is what is meant by a country founded on free speech. Of course don't tell our American friends that free speech was an English common law right in the colonies. As well the Hearst style of journalism is alive and well in our modern era.

bekayne

Rev Pesky wrote:

Growing up in BC, I remember there were two dailys, the Vancouver Sun, and the Vancouver Province. If you voted Liberal, you took the Sun, and if you voted Conservative, you took the province. 

Funny thing was, they both had the same owner

quizzical

bekayne wrote:
Rev Pesky wrote:
Growing up in BC, I remember there were two dailys, the Vancouver Sun, and the Vancouver Province. If you voted Liberal, you took the Sun, and if you voted Conservative, you took the province. 

Funny thing was, they both had the same owner

i don't believe Rev's comment completely.

my grandparents life long NDPers wouldn't read the Sun even if free to read like someone left it behind on the ferry. they would read the Province free.

there was no BC Liberal Party when i was a kid though.

 

NDPP

Trump's Ties to the Past and the Resurrection of the Left   -   by James Petras

http://petras.lahaine.org/?p=2127

'De Omnibus Dubitandum' - Everything is to be doubted.

"This essay will point out how current negatives can become realistic positives..."

Paladin1

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Do you think Trump's point was:

a)  "... so let's not go accusing people of stuff"

b)  "... so we should be equally critical of Putin and also our own administration"

c)  "... so we should be equally critical of Putin and also the previous administration"

You have to admit, if his rebuttal was, as you suggest, practically a confession, it should be interesting to see how he follows that up, yes?

 

It's hard to say why. Maybe he was caught off guard and put on the spot and it slipped out or maybe he sees the US for what it has become.  Unlike Clinton he hasn't built his empire pulling a Tony Stark so there's a real change he could change the war-business system.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Maybe he was caught off guard and put on the spot and it slipped out

From Trump?

Say what you will about the guy, but when it comes to self-control and inscrutability, he's like some kind of Japanese Diplomat robot from the future. 

The Donald would never blurt.  The Donald's emotions know that their place is in the Free-Speech Zone a few miles away.

NDPP

A Socialist Strategy to Defeat Trump    - by Kshama Sawant

http://counterpunch.org/2017/02/10/a-socialist-strategy-to-defeat-trump

"Escalate the resistance towards shutdowns on March 8 and May 1."

 

Decoding Trump   -  by Radhika Desai

http://counterpunch.org/2017/02/10/decoding-trump

"Let's begin with the basics..."

6079_Smith_W

Quote:

I previously warned the Trump administration not to go to war with the nation’s spies, and here’s why. This is a risky situation, particularly since President Trump is prone to creating crises foreign and domestic with his incautious tweets. In the event of a serious international crisis of the sort which eventually befalls almost every administration, the White House will need the best intelligence possible to prevent war, possibly even nuclear war. It may not get the information it needs in that hour of crisis, and for that it has nobody to blame but itself.

http://observer.com/2017/02/donald-trump-administration-mike-flynn-russi...

josh

"As we begin to take further actions," Miller said, it will be shown in the end "that the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned." 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/12/trump-administration-considering-narrower-travel-ban

 

 

bekayne

Flynn resigns. Or as RT put it, "retires".

NDPP

Gen Michael Flynn RESIGNS As National Security Advisor Over Contacts With Russia (and vid)

https://www.rt.com/usa/377267-michael-flynn-resigns-national-security-ad...

 

The Elites Won't Save Us  -  by Chris Hedges

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_elites_wont_save_us_20170212

"A sustained, nationwide popular uprising of nonviolent obstruction and non-cooperation is the only weapon left to save the republic. The elites will respond once they become afraid. If we do not make them afraid we will fail."

josh

Even the Today Show can't swallow the bullshit.

https://mobile.twitter.com/EricWolfson/status/831487702801510401/video/1

Rev Pesky

Yes, Flynn is gone, and the consequences of screwing with the intelligence community are becoming more clear.

Flynn quits

Quote:
The US national security advisor, Michael Flynn, resigned late on Monday night amid a flow of intelligence leaks that he had secretly discussed sanctions with the Russian ambassador to Washington and then tried to cover up the conversations.

...It was far from clear whether Flynn’s departure would steady an inexperienced and feuding White House, or resolve the lingering suspicions about the Trump team’s pre-election contacts with the Kremlin. 

...On Monday afternoon, the White House appeared to struggle with how to handle the accusations. A White House statement that the president was “evaluating the situation” conflicted with White House counselor Kellyanne Conway telling reporters that Trump had “full confidence” in Flynn.

...the repeated and detailed leaks by a disgruntled and alarmed US intelligence community suggested that Flynn’s contacts with Kisilyak dated back to before the election, raising more questions about whether the Trump campaign had any knowledge of the Russian effort to skew the elections.

...Ignored at best, berated at worst, the NSC career staff began leaking copiously about Trump’s erratic phone calls with other world leaders and other missteps, infuriating the president, who ordered leak investigations, further deepening the discontent and dysfunction inside the White House.

Get out the popcorn, folks, the show is about to begin. Well, I guess it already has begun, but Trump spent a lot of time trying to piss off the career intelligence crowd, and I doubt they liked that.

Can hardly wait for the real leaking to begin. Trump has enough baggage to fill a train, much of which wouldn't look that good to the public.

Let's see, in the last week, Trump pissed all over the judiciary. Those chickens have yet to come home to roost, but they will. In the meantime the bureuacrats will be cutting hiim down to size.

Trump is about to find out the bureaucracy is a lot bigger than he is, and if full of people who are experts at hanging politicians out to dry.

Rev Pesky

josh wrote:

Even the Today Show can't swallow the bullshit.

https://mobile.twitter.com/EricWolfson/status/831487702801510401/video/1

Wow! One wonders how long Conway will be able to put up with being a toad-eater for Trump. At some point I think she, and others in that circle, will decide they've had enough and jump ship.

quizzical

Wow kellyanne did a bad job on her mascara it's all over the place.

he is using up his daughter. used up Ms Conway.

who knows about Melania but she has definitely lost her sparkle from 10 years ago.

6079_Smith_W

Rev Pesky wrote:

Wow! One wonders how long Conway will be able to put up with being a toad-eater for Trump.

Another way of looking at it is that he is her tool. After all, she has been in this game a lot longer than he has:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsIX0uF2n-M

At the very least it is mutual. Certainly he is being used by the Republican congress to get what they want.

Paladin1

Rev Pesky wrote:

Yes, Flynn is gone, and the consequences of screwing with the intelligence community are becoming more clear.

 

Is this the same INT community that gave us those pictures of WMDs in Iraq which we used to justify an invasion? You remember, the grainy satelitte photos with red circles over random blurry things that had all the generals vigourously nodding their heads.

6079_Smith_W

Was that their obsession, or Bush's?

NorthReport

As Trump stumbles, Hill Republicans find it harder to defend him

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/as-trump-stumbles-hill-republic...

Timebandit

Rev Pesky wrote:

josh wrote:

Even the Today Show can't swallow the bullshit.

https://mobile.twitter.com/EricWolfson/status/831487702801510401/video/1

Wow! One wonders how long Conway will be able to put up with being a toad-eater for Trump. At some point I think she, and others in that circle, will decide they've had enough and jump ship.

Please. She's busy writing her ticket. No matter how it ends, this is going to set her up very nicely. If she had a scrap of honour in her, she'd have left long ago.

NorthReport

Mike Flynn might be done – but Trump's nightmare has just begun

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/14/mike-flynn-resigna...

josh

Russia not happy about losing an apparent asset.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russian-lawmakers-rush-to-the-defen...

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