The Trump administration 3

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voice of the damned

WWWTT:

My point was that if it was a racial group(black or otherwise) being banned, everybody would recognize that as blatant bigotry, and nobody would be on here defending the ban, even on the anti-militaristic grounds that you're using.

But it's easier to play your kind of games with the well-being trans people, since transphobia is still viewed(if just on a subconscious level) as somehow more respectable than racism.

And if you really believe that banning trans people from the military could in any way lead to the abolition or even just the weakening of the US military, well, I'm sorry, but that's just delusional. What it is far more likely to do is serve as a precedent for the banning of trans people from other goverment or non-governmental jobs. Which is one more very good reason to be against it.

 

 

 

voice of the damned

And, as for your Iberian example...

Yes, if Iberians in the US were routinely subjected to discrimination and violence, and if a guy got himself elected POTUS in part by pandering to the people who were promoting this discrimination and violence, and then after getting elected tried to appease these bigots by banning Iberians from the army, then I would consider it rather offensive to say that he was doing a favour for Iberians.

And if pointing out that the people cheering the Iberian ban wouldn't be cheering a ban on Englishmen would advance my argument, I would do that.

WWWTT

voice of the damned wrote:

And, as for your Iberian example...

Wow! You folks completely missed the point I was making about how Trump used the transgender community to create sympathy for the military and blur the lines of imperialism vs actual defence. Every comment I've read so far, is in defence of US imperialism and war crimes! Does someone want to explain to me how banning someone from murdering people is against their rights? When did people have the right to murder? I guess if it's a foreigner, murdering a foreigner is a right then?

If the leader of the country told me "from now on, you're not allowed to join our organisation that kills people and destroys lives, families and their countries" I would say, "ya I wasn't interested in your imperial war machine, so thank you captain obvious!"

JKR

WWWTT wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

And, as for your Iberian example...

Wow! You folks completely missed the point I was making about how Trump used the transgender community to create sympathy for the military and blur the lines of imperialism vs actual defence. Every comment I've read so far, is in defence of US imperialism and war crimes! Does someone want to explain to me how banning someone from murdering people is against their rights? When did people have the right to murder? I guess if it's a foreigner, murdering a foreigner is a right then?

If the leader of the country told me "from now on, you're not allowed to join our organisation that kills people and destroys lives, families and their countries" I would say, "ya I wasn't interested in your imperial war machine, so thank you captain obvious!"

This is the kind of logic that wins elections for Donald Trump and his ilk.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Every comment I've read so far, is in defence of US imperialism and war crimes!

Actually, NO comment you've read so far has been in defense of US imperialism and war crimes.

EVERY comment has been in favour of trans soldiers having the same right to serve as any other soldier, or in criticism of the idea that trans soldiers need Donald Trump to save them.

Quote:
Does someone want to explain to me how banning someone from murdering people is against their rights?

The Donald didn't ban all Americans, equitably, and that's the problem.  It's as stupid as saying "Asians shouldn't use cocaine, therefore we'll have a special law to prevent Asians from using cocaine!"  Would that help you understand?

Quote:
If the leader of the country told me "from now on, you're not allowed to join our organisation that kills people and destroys lives, families and their countries" I would say, "ya I wasn't interested in your imperial war machine, so thank you captain obvious!"

American transpeople have, and have always had, and continue to have that same option.  No need for POTUS to choose for them, if he's not choosing for everyone else.

 

WWWTT

Actually yes every comment and in particular the one you just made. Doesn't matter what group Trump went after that has lots of supporters from the left, he knew that that he would generate a desire to serve in the war machine from the most unlikely candidates. I see the same thing happen with my children actually. One kid grabs a toy (let's call him kid A) kid B lost interest in playing with and after kid B sees kid A, he wants that toy back and then they start fighting. Look at the comments coming from those criticisms to Trump saying that it's everyone's right to serve! Come to think of it, I haven't seen so much support for the serving in the US slaughter machine(military) since 9/11! As far as your Asians doing coke thing goes, ya that's just weak since nobody's actually getting a criminal record or going to jail. And yes there are already lots of racism in the US justice system. Just compare the sentences a white kid gets for smoking a joint to a black kid. 

JKR

WWWTT wrote:

Actually yes every comment and in particular the one you just made. Doesn't matter what group Trump went after that has lots of supporters from the left, he knew that that he would generate a desire to serve in the war machine from the most unlikely candidates. I see the same thing happen with my children actually. One kid grabs a toy (let's call him kid A) kid B lost interest in playing with and after kid B sees kid A, he wants that toy back and then they start fighting. Look at the comments coming from those criticisms to Trump saying that it's everyone's right to serve! Come to think of it, I haven't seen so much support for the serving in the US slaughter machine(military) since 9/11! As far as your Asians doing coke thing goes, ya that's just weak since nobody's actually getting a criminal record or going to jail. And yes there are already lots of racism in the US justice system. Just compare the sentences a white kid gets for smoking a joint to a black kid. 

So Trump is an evil genius parent manipulating his gullible trans children?

I'm not sure this is a scenario that one would arrive at using Occam's razor.

Maybe Trump is a childish bigoted idiot who is trying to divert attention from his disastrous failed presidency by attacking the mature, yet vulnerable trans community?

WWWTT

JKR wrote:

Maybe Trump is a childish bigoted idiot who is trying to divert attention from his disastrous failed presidency by attacking the mature, yet vulnerable trans community?

Why do you think the trans community is of one mind? Don't you think that outlook is otherizing and condescending?

So which is it then? Sounds like I'm wasting my time debating with someone who keeps moving the goal posts. Best of luck anyways!

NDPP

When is the World Going To Impose Sanctions on America?

https://sptnkne.ws/eZPY

"Only when we are living in a world in which sanctions are imposed 'on' the United States rather than 'by' the United States will we know justice reigns."

JKR

WWWTT wrote:

JKR wrote:

Maybe Trump is a childish bigoted idiot who is trying to divert attention from his disastrous failed presidency by attacking the mature, yet vulnerable trans community?

Why do you think the trans community is of one mind? Don't you think that outlook is otherizing and condescending?

So which is it then? Sounds like I'm wasting my time debating with someone who keeps moving the goal posts. Best of luck anyways!

It sounds like I'm debating with someone who otherized and was condescending to the trans community.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Actually yes every comment and in particular the one you just made. Doesn't matter what group Trump went after that has lots of supporters from the left, he knew that that he would generate a desire to serve in the war machine from the most unlikely candidates.

You really don't seem to understand that the state cannot simply name some identifiable group -- women, blacks, Asians, juggalos, vegans -- and say that they alone cannot serve in the military. 

That you think the military is "the murder machine" is beside the point, and that you think nobody at all should want to serve in the military is also beside the point.

If the RCMP declared that starting immediately, no Chinese Canadian can join their ranks, would you say "good!"?  If not, why not?  Lucky them, right?

Paladin1

I don't agree with Trump/The US's decision but that doesn't mean it may not have merrit.  I understand my response is emotional and born from a position of someone who works along side trans people and doesn't see any problems. That said I'm cognizant of the fact that the US military IS different from our own.  I don't know enough about the US policies or rules but if some of what I'm reading is correct, and that being trans in the US forces may make someone un-deployable for the duration of their transformation and require perminate monitoring then that could be a legitimate issue.

There are marathon and triathalon runners in in Canada who are super fit, maybe have a PhD but also minor asthma and for that affliction they can't join the military here. ADHD, anxeity when they were 9, lots of other very minor afflictions that the CAF won't allow people in for.

While I still have a very hard time believing it there still is a chance that the concerns may be valid. Money wise once upon a time I dislocated a shoulder and broke a rib while in the US. I recall the bill being in the thousands. I think well over $10'000 for x-rays, short hospital stay and shit. Guessing gender reassignment is a lot more.

By and large the military is a business. The US stopped launching hellfire missles at Taliban-Farmers in Afghanistan not because who fucking cares they're just pissed off farmers but because it was $110,000 USD to kill  farmer.

 

Don't burn me at the stake here, just devils advocate.

Rev Pesky

Scaramucci removed as Communications Director

President Trump has decided to remove Anthony Scaramucci from his position as communications director, three people close to the decision said Monday, relieving him just days after Mr. Scaramucci unloaded a crude verbal tirade against other senior members of the president’s senior staff.

...The decision to remove Mr. Scaramucci, who had boasted about reporting directly to the president, not the chief of staff, John F. Kelly, came at Mr. Kelly’s request, the people said. 

...It was not clear whether Mr. Scaramucci will remain employed at the White House in another position or will leave altogether.

That has to set some sort of record for shortest term as Communications Director, I would think. Not that surprising, though. That little rant of his was a bit over the top.

voice of the damned

Well, he was hired supposedly to prevent leaks. And the first thing he does is round up a NYT reporter and start spouting off about his colleague Bannon "sucking his own cock". And then he tries to explain it away by saying "Well, I guess I was naive to trust that reporter". 

So, probably not the best guy to have the assignment of tightening up the information flow. 

Rev Pesky

The Onion Fact Checks Scaramucci's Rant

“I’ve done nothing wrong on my financial disclosures, so they’re going to have to go fuck themselves.”

TRUE: Scaramucci’s financial records appear accurate, so under U.S. federal statutes his detractors are required by law to go fuck themselves no later than 10 business days from the date of filing.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I just can't shake the idea that he looks like the offspring of Ben Stiller and George Mammoliti.

I know that's wrong.  I look at him and I just can't help thinking of an inappropriate word that rhymes with "whoosh".

NDPP

Trump Planning To Sign Russia Sanctions 'Signals Dysfunctional President' 

https://youtu.be/U-9DBsRbN_4

josh

“Because the left is aligned with Islamist organizations at local, national and international levels, recognition should be given to the fact that they seamlessly interoperate through coordinated synchronized interactive narratives … These attacks narratives are pervasive, full spectrum and institutionalized at all levels.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/a-national-security-council-staffer-is-forced-out-over-a-controversial-memo/535725/

NorthReport

Too bad the Democratic hierarchy doesn't get this but perhaps losing a few more elections may change their minds, although not counting on it! 

Trump Is the Symptom, Not the Disease

Unless we overhaul our political systems from the ground up, we face a century of rule by puppets of the rich.

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2017/08/01/Trump-Symptom-Not-Disease/

NDPP

'Full-Fledged Economic War': Medvedev Slams Trump, 'Humilitating' Cave-In on Russian Sanctions (and vid)

https://on.rt.com/8jed

"The Americans' love of sanctions that plunged the United States into Russophobic tantrums are long overdue to get rid of illusions and to understand that no threats or attempts to exert pressure can force Russia to change its course or sacrifice its national interests.

It is a declaration of a full-fledged economic war on Russia...We will cope."

NorthReport

NDPP time to give up your silliness

The circus continues and we will all be paying the price for this nightmare Trump presidency but Americans will pay the biggest price of all as it is now obvious that the American constitution / system of government only works for rich and powerful thugs and not the average American citizen 

https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2017/08/05/the-moment-when-trump-wi...

NDPP

NorthReport wrote:

NDPP time to give up your silliness

 

NDPP wrote:

After you NR...

NorthReport

Which he did, hands down! - (check the article's date)

This Man Is the Most Dangerous Political Operative in America

Steve Bannon runs the new vast right-wing conspiracy—and he wants to take down both Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush.

 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2015-steve-bannon/

NorthReport

The Alternate Realities of Trump’s America

In ‘Devil’s Bargain,’ Joshua Green examines the duo of Steve Bannon and the President. But there’s more to unpack.

 

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2017/08/09/Alternate-Realities-Trump/

NDPP

ZOA: NSC's McMaster - Reassign Him To Area Not Dealing With Israel Or Iran

http://zoa.org/2017/08/10371905-zoa-nscs-mcmaster-reassign-him-to-area-n...

"Zionist Organization of America (ZOA)...released the following report:"

Zios unhappy with McMaster

NDPP

"...The loose left now calls that grotesque excrescence in the White House a fascist, as if Trump had replaced an administration of enlightened humanitarians. They are calling for virtual presidenticide so that the rule of that enlightened international 'vampire', the Democratic Party, can be restored.

But let me tell you: he's only the last of the 'fascists' in a long line since 1945. The loose left just hasn't noticed because the loose left have no concept of class struggle.

What is to be done? End imperialism..."

The Terrorism of Moral Indignation  -   by Luciana Bohne

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/08/11/the-terrorism-of-moral-indignation/

josh

NDPP wrote:

"...The loose left now calls that grotesque excrescence in the White House a fascist, as if Trump had replaced an administration of enlightened humanitarians. They are calling for virtual presidenticide so that the rule of that enlightened international 'vampire', the Democratic Party, can be restored.

But let me tell you: he's only the last of the 'fascists' in a long line since 1945. The loose left just hasn't noticed because the loose left have no concept of class struggle.

What is to be done? End imperialism..."

The Terrorism of Moral Indignation  -   by Luciana Bohne

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/08/11/the-terrorism-of-moral-indignation/

What a bunch of horseshit.  None of those presidents, however abhorent they were, sympathized with white supremacists and neo-nazis.  None of them tried to pose a religious test for entrance to the country.  None of them appointed outright fascists to positions of influence.  None of them, with the possible exception of Nixon, broke what is essentially a social compact that the president would not communicate to the country in way akin to a drunk at a Munich beer hall.

josh

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck . . . .

That's not the reaction that one would expect from the president of the United States. But it is consistent with what I've been trying to get across for the past few months. It's consistent with Trump and Steven Bannon's attempt to do away with the part of the American story that celebrates entering and winning the Second World War. It's consistent with their attempt to do away with the part of the American identity that has to do with being anti-fascist, or anti-Nazi. It's consistent with their botching the Holocaust Remembrance Day in January. It's consistent with the utterly bizarre way that Sean Spicer talked about the Holocaust, when he said Hitler didn't kill his own people. It's consistent with Trump being the first major American politician in recent memory to skip visiting the Ghetto Memorial when he came to Warsaw in August.

And above all, it's consistent with his “America First” slogan. This is what America First means. America First means an America where a Nazi Germany was not the enemy. So that's the broad historical circle. We have an administration which has "America First." What "America First" meant when it was used during the WWII era was that we should not resist Nazi Germany. Mr. Trump's remarks on Saturday are totally consistent with that.

This is who and what the administration has been from the very beginning.

https://www.vox.com/2017/8/14/16141078/charlottesville-unite-the-right-nazi-history-timothy-snyder

NorthReport

Merck chief Ken Frazier resigns from Trump council

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40921600

NorthReport

If Trump’s McConnell Bashing Is A Strategy, It’s A Dumb One

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/if-trumps-mcconnell-bashing-is-a-st...

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

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