The Trump Administration

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josh

The Emoluments Clause is Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution. It prohibits any "Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under [the United States]" from accepting "any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State."

The clause is relevant because Trump is the first U.S. president with a sprawling global business empire. 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/01/11/what-is-the-emoluments-clause/96446252/

 

 

6079_Smith_W

Does he even get that they are laughing at him?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUyAk0bYps0

bekayne

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

President Piss Boy.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

josh wrote:

The Emoluments Clause is Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution. It prohibits any "Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under [the United States]" from accepting "any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State."

The clause is relevant because Trump is the first U.S. president with a sprawling global business empire. 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/01/11/what-is-the-emoluments-clause/96446252/

Really so what to think the Bush family was involved in, the local corner store? How quickly we forget how bad Bush the Second was and now want to pretend it is a single man named Trump that is the cause of the US's problems and he is the first President that was influenced by foreign powers. What a crock of shit. The Israelis have done far more to influence US elections including lining politicians pockets than the Russians have every done.

 

NDPP

The Deep State Goes To War With President Elect, Using Unverified Claims, As Democrats Cheer  -  by Glenn Greenwald

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/11/the-deep-state-goes-to-war-with-pres...

"In January 1961, Dwight Eisenhower delivered his farewell address: 'In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted interference whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex...' 

This is the faction that is now engaged in open warfare against the duly elected and already widely disliked president-elect Donald Trump."

 

The Deep State Versus Donald Trump - New Smears and the Ukrainian Connection  - MofA

https://t.co/DNXhsErULh

"When Hillary Clinton was defeated in the US presidential election the relevant powers launched a campaign to delegitimize the President-elect Donald Trump. The ultimate aim of the cabal is to kick him out of office and have a reliable replacement, like the Vice President-elect Pence, take over. Should that not be possible it is hoped that the delegitimization will make it impossible for Trump to change major policy trajectories especially in foreign policy.

A main issue here is the reorientation of the US military complex and its NATO proxies from the war of terror towards a direct confrontation with main powers like Russia and China.

The deep state campaign against Trump opened new grounds today with the publication of completely false and thereby unverifiable anonymous assertions which include the smear that Trump had some fun in a Moscow hotel and that Russian secret services is using that to manipulate him.

Like many smears against Trump via proxies of the Clinton presidential campaign, these new ones seem to originate from Ukraine related sources and Ukrainian 'nationalist' (aka fascist) putsch supporters.

Neocon senator John McCain, friend of Ukrainian fascists and Trump enemy, passed the 'report' to the FBI and thereby made it into an official document.

It is bonkers from a to z..."

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

The Deep State Goes To War With President Elect, Using Unverified Claims, As Democrats Cheer  -  by Glenn Greenwald

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/11/the-deep-state-goes-to-war-with-pres...

"In January 1961, Dwight Eisenhower delivered his farewell address: 'In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted interference whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex...' 

This is the faction that is now engaged in open warfare against the duly elected and already widely disliked president-elect Donald Trump."

 

The Deep State Versus Donald Trump - New Smears and the Ukrainian Connection  - MofA

https://t.co/DNXhsErULh

"When Hillary Clinton was defeated in the US presidential election the relevant powers launched a campaign to delegitimize the President-elect Donald Trump. The ultimate aim of the cabal is to kick him out of office and have a reliable replacement, like the Vice President-elect Pence, take over. Should that not be possible it is hoped that the delegitimization will make it impossible for Trump to change major policy trajectories especially in foreign policy.

A main issue here is the reorientation of the US military complex and its NATO proxies from the war of terror towards a direct confrontation with main powers like Russia and China.

The deep state campaign against Trump opened new grounds today with the publication of completely false and thereby unverifiable anonymous assertions which include the smear that Trump had some fun in a Moscow hotel and that Russian secret services is using that to manipulate him.

Like many smears against Trump via proxies of the Clinton presidential campaign, these new ones seem to originate from Ukraine related sources and Ukrainian 'nationalist' (aka fascist) putsch supporters.

Neocon senator John McCain, friend of Ukrainian fascists and Trump enemy, passed the 'report' to the FBI and thereby made it into an official document.

It is bonkers from a to z..."

The "smears" against Trump have a lot more substance than Trump supporters recognize.

I find it astonishing how simplistic and binary so many obeserves seem to want to be -- having a right side and a wrong side to pick from is very comforting I suppose -- even if it is irritating to those not drinking their potions.

It really is not that uncommon to have two sides where both are as unattractive as the other and there is nobody to cheer-lead for. Even more common is when one side is bad and the other is worse. Both require criticism and neither deserve support.

We see this across so many global conflicts and debate -- people here rushing to find a side that they will defend ignoring anything that tarnishes their side.

Presented to us is a debate between hard right sexist and racist Republican establishment  figures and a sexist and racist billionaire proto-neo-fascist and his followers. I see no reason to defend either, especially as they will work together to screw everyone else in between their own infighting. Add to that an establishment Democratic party elite that delivers its own brand of disgusting and I have no desire to declare support. I can observe in the moment who may be behaving worse on one issue or another but I reject the notion that I must have, or recognize with approval, any enduring loyalty or delusions about their innocence.

Feel free to take this as my opinion on a number of other global conflicts where I do not choose to support one side just becuase the other is awful. That is a choice I may be forced to make at home but there is no requirement for me to do so when it comes to opinions about other countries who have to sort their own affairs and to which my opinion of a better side is neither helpful nor valuable.

6079_Smith_W

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/12/intelligenc

Quote:

The official added: “If he puts something in a report, he believes there’s sufficient credibility in it for it to be worth considering. Chris is a very straight guy. He could not have survived in the job he was in if he had been prone to flights of fancy or doing things in an ill-considered way.”

...

From Moscow’s perspective, the report’s publication can hardly be counted a success. As a former KGB agent, Putin understands the first rule of intelligence: that special operations should remain secret. “In the world in which Putin operates, if people can see the strings you’ve failed,” the Foreign Office official said. “The Russians will be asking: ‘How the hell did it get out?’”

bekayne

 

Marine LePen at Trump Tower this morning.

NDPP

BAR: As the Democrats Press For War, the Left Must Demand Peace and Social Transformation

http://blackagendareport.com/left_must_demand_peace_transformation

"As is ordained by law, at the end of the week most of President Obama's legacy will become Trump's powers, including the power to detain Americans indefinitely (forever) without trial or charge, an authority the First Black President secured from Congress in 2011.

Obama's wars become Trump's wars, which, if Trump follows Obama's example - and if he succumbs to the furious pressures of leading Democrats, old line Republicans and an openly aggressive and politicized national security establishment - will be expanded and multiplied.

The most imminent threats to human survival under a Trump presidency flow, not from the billionaire's own belligerent instincts and unpredictability, but from the momentum of Obama's policies of ever-escalating confrontation with Russia and China - his deliberate 'pivots' towards brinksmanship on all the geopolitical fronts of Empire.

.The ruling class realignment that congealed in the Clinton campaign's Big Tent sees any relaxation of US military pressure against Beijing and Moscow as a prelude to imperial collapse. For them, de-escalation is an existential threat. They don't give a damn about the damage Donald Trump intends.

This is all about war. The Democrats, massed corporate media and the fully mobilized legions of spooks and disinformation specialists are cynically seeking to harness people's well funded fears of Trump's domestic policies in order to sabotage the possibility of a relaxation of international tensions. 

The War Party, deploying every disinformation trick in the book, foments anti-Russian hysteria to create a mass base for its imperial agenda. T'hey point fingers at phantom 'minions' of Moscow in order to make political foot-soldiers of  the Pentagon, Langley and the military industrial complex. 

But the social movement activists that allow themselves to be swept up in the Democrats' offensive-from-the Right against Trump are the biggest  dupes of all."

 

josh

How asinine.  Democrats are not pressing for war.  If anyone was looking for war it was Russia.  They hacked the Democrats.

bekayne

NDPP wrote:

BAR: As the Democrats Press For War, the Left Must Demand Peace and Social Transformation

http://blackagendareport.com/left_must_demand_peace_transformation

"The ruling class realignment that congealed in the Clinton campaign's Big Tent sees any relaxation of US military pressure against Beijing..."

There is zero evidence of Trump doing that (in fact, plent of evidence for the opposite). What garbage.

iyraste1313

This is all about war...

I only partially agree here...what also is happening is a fundamental conflict between CIA, its allied intelligence agents and infiltrated media and blackmailed congress vs. the Trump administration, which has stated clearly their intention to drain the swamp!

Senator Shumer`s warning to Trump yesterday, not to interfere in matters of Intelliegnce, that there are ways to undermine his attempts is a clear suggestion re what happened to President kennedy, the last powerful president that tried to interfere!

6079_Smith_W

Given who he has chosen for his cabinet, how can you support his lie about draining the swamp, iyraste?

 

Sean in Ottawa

iyraste1313 wrote:

This is all about war...

I only partially agree here...what also is happening is a fundamental conflict between CIA, its allied intelligence agents and infiltrated media and blackmailed congress vs. the Trump administration, which has stated clearly their intention to drain the swamp!

Senator Shumer`s warning to Trump yesterday, not to interfere in matters of Intelliegnce, that there are ways to undermine his attempts is a clear suggestion re what happened to President kennedy, the last powerful president that tried to interfere!

You seem to not like ridicule, yet you invite it.

Intention to drain the swamp. Let's unpack that over the next while here.

But I suggest you really prepare for some ridicule of posts like this.

NDPP

Giuliani Forming Cybersecurity For Trump

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/313932-giuliani-says-hes-forming...

"President-elect Donald Trump has tapped the former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani to assist on cyber-security issues with the new administration..."

 

"...And outspoken supporter of Israel, Giuliani is fondly remembered in the Jewish community for expelling PLO chief Yasser Arafat from a United Nations concert at Lincoln Center in 1995. Giuliani becomes the latest pro-Israel contender for Trump's Secretary of State post, according to media reports." (Nov, 2016)

Giuliani Latest Pro Israel Contender For Secretary of State

https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/

Why are fabricated charges of Trump being Moscow's agent so prominent and yet overwhelming evidence of Zionist penetration of the new regime so rare? Why do progressives collaborate in this?

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I wonder if President Piss Jugs will ultimately be impeached. And if so,are we ready for President Pence? What a disaster.

josh

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Given who he has chosen for his cabinet, how can you support his lie about draining the swamp, iyraste?

 

More like swamping the drain.

josh

alan smithee wrote:

I wonder if President Piss Jugs will ultimately be impeached. And if so,are we ready for President Pence? What a disaster.

 

Probably a decent chance.

Sean in Ottawa

The US is in for a rough time. Pence may be less likely to do some erratic things but he is a significant threat on many other issues. You cannot be ready for this other than to assume that in 4-6-8 years something will change. There is little hope given the makeup of the Houses that the next mid-term elections will do much to help. So you are stuck with one of these for 4 years by the look of it.

Edzell Edzell's picture

alan smithee wrote:
The 'elites' cannot allow Trump to take power. Yep,you certainly have to be an elitist to worry about what Orange Asshole will do not only to the US but the world. He's a maniac that needs to be stopped
Alan, could you please differentiate between which parts of your posts are quotations, which are intended as sarcasm, and which you actually believe. You don't want to attract friendly fire :)

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Edzell wrote:

alan smithee wrote:
The 'elites' cannot allow Trump to take power. Yep,you certainly have to be an elitist to worry about what Orange Asshole will do not only to the US but the world. He's a maniac that needs to be stopped
Alan, could you please differentiate between which parts of your posts are quotations, which are intended as sarcasm, and which you actually believe. You don't want to attract friendly fire :)

'The elites cannot allow Trump to take power' (quotation) Yep, you certainly have to be an elitist to worry about what Orange Asshole will do not only to the US but the world. (sarcasm) He's a maniac that needs to be stopped (what I actually believe)

Who here is going to attack me over that? I hope that helps you.

Sean in Ottawa

alan smithee wrote:

Edzell wrote:

alan smithee wrote:
The 'elites' cannot allow Trump to take power. Yep,you certainly have to be an elitist to worry about what Orange Asshole will do not only to the US but the world. He's a maniac that needs to be stopped
Alan, could you please differentiate between which parts of your posts are quotations, which are intended as sarcasm, and which you actually believe. You don't want to attract friendly fire :)

'The elites cannot allow Trump to take power' (quotation) Yep, you certainly have to be an elitist to worry about what Orange Asshole will do not only to the US but the world. (sarcasm) He's a maniac that needs to be stopped (what I actually believe)

Who here is going to attack me over that? I hope that helps you.

No attack but let me endorse that opinion

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
The 'elites' cannot allow Trump to take power.

2017:  "The elites will punish us!"

17AD:  "The Gods will punish us!"

NDPP

NYT: How A Sensational, Unverified Dossier Became A Crisis For Donald Trump

https://t.co/aGbjKikQUW

"The consequences of the dossier, put together by a former British spy (M16) named Christopher Steele (now in hiding and unavailable for comment) are incalculable and will play out long past Inauguration Day."

 

Glenn Greenwald Confirms CIA Bias Against Trump, BBC Loses It

https://t.co/uIkC1vMw4K

"It may well be that none of the leaks are true, but in some ways the story has already moved on.." BBC

 

Professor: Russia Dossier is 'Attempt To Destroy Trump's Presidency' Before Inauguration (and vid)

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/01/11/professor-cohen-russia-dossier-don...

"Cohen said mainstream media figures have been calling Trump 'a puppet of the Kremlin' for some time, which he remarked started when they decided to consider him as running with 'Putin' rather than 'Pence'. People are desperate to wound Trump to stop any type of detente with Russia, Cohen said. 'These accusations themselves have become a grave American security threat."

6079_Smith_W

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
The 'elites' cannot allow Trump to take power.

2017:  "The elites will punish us!"

17AD:  "The Gods will punish us!"

Perhaps he didn't get the memo, but I think it's "The Deep State" now. See post #257.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
People are desperate to wound Trump to stop any type of detente with Russia, Cohen said.

Yes.  That's the only reason anyone could possibly have to want to stop Trump.

6079_Smith_W

NDPP wrote:

Glenn Greenwald Confirms CIA Bias Against Trump, BBC Loses It

https://t.co/uIkC1vMw4K

"It may well be that none of the leaks are true, but in some ways the story has already moved on.." BBC

Professor: Russia Dossier is 'Attempt To Destroy Trump's Presidency' Before Inauguration (and vid)

Funny thing about this exchange is that if the BBC was acting in the way the MSM is alleged to act they would not have had him on at all. Also, Greenwald getting all righteous about substantiation in this case (although the briefing is substance enough) while having no such concerns about media publishing unsbstantiated leaks these many months.

josh

It was known that the CIA was not wild about Trump while the FBI was anti-Clinton.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

And the "deep state" was, like, "oh, is this an 'election' year?  LOLZ!"

Doug Woodard

Rebecca Solnit on Trump's fear of women:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n02/rebecca-solnit/from-lying-to-leering

 

Sean in Ottawa

While it is true that the current scandal relates to completely unsupported rumour there are other issues at play.

First, this began with Trump and the Obama birth certificate and a stream of fake news from his supporters including those he has elevated to cabinet.

Second, there are lies from Trump verifiable by videotape.

The reality is that Trump has advanced fake news and he may get bitten by it without generating much public sympathy - and none from me.

Trump is publicly a nasty man without considering any of the unproven accusations.

There is no basis to assume anything about these stories not that they are true, certainly, but there is nothing to suggest that ay of this is beyond him either.

Also when it comes to Clinton, there is no reason to trust her either. The public has good reason to think the worst of most of the players in these stories. Trump now getting all hot and bothered about fake news is not going to help himself. It will be chalked up to karma and what he invited -- even when considered unproven.

Sean in Ottawa

Doug Woodard wrote:

Rebecca Solnit on Trump's fear of women:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n02/rebecca-solnit/from-lying-to-leering

 

This is definitely worth the few minutes to read it and the few more to think about it.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Also when it comes to Clinton, there is no reason to trust her either.


As politicians go, actually, she is pretty high on the trustworthy scale.

http://m.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/08/hillary-clinton-one-americas...

NDPP

With Bipartisan Support, Trump Defense Nominee Outlines Plans For Global War

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/01/13/matt-j13.html 

"...In a particularly ominous exchange during the hearing, Mattis was asked by the committee chairman, the Republican warmonger John Mccain whether or not he thought the 'world order' was under its greatest strain in 70 years. Mattis responded, 'I think it's under the biggest strains since World War II. And that's from Russia, from terrorist groups and with what China is doing in the South China Sea.'

Though he was at pains to stress the importance of US allies, especially NATO, Mattis, like McCain, embraced military unilateralism. The nominee said that the US has only two fundamental powers, one of which he called 'the power of intimidating'. Mattis labeled Russia a 'strategic competitor' and said that Russian President Vladimir Putin trys to 'break' the NATO alliance, which he hailed as the greatest military alliance in history..."

Taiwanese President Meets Senior Republicans, Fuelling US-China Tensions

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/01/12/taiw-j12.html

"...Likening China's island-building as 'akin to Russia's taking Crimea', Tillerson accused the Obama administration of an inadequate response. His remarks set the stage for a direct military confrontation between China and the US, two nuclear armed powers. Any attempt by the US to block Chinese aircraft and ships from accessing the islets it controls in the South CHINA Sea would lead to a clash that would rapidly escalate into war.

An editorial in Beijing's hard-line Global Times issued a menacing warning against further 'provocations' by the US and Taiwan..."

Rev Pesky

Pardon me for saying, 'I told you so'. For those on this site who spent the USA election talking about what a warmonger Clinton was, it is now clear that Trump is at least as much of one, and highly unstable to boot.

Will the USA really try to blockade islands in the South China Sea? Let's hope not, but it sounds very much like Trump is heading for a serious confrontation with China.

 

NDPP

George Galloway: Trump, Russia & The Zinoviev Letter

http://youtu.be/JnWZqYkfDzg

Trump, Russia, MI6, a British ambassador to Moscow, McCain and the CIA

Doug Woodard

Neil Degrasse Tyson on Obama, Trump, and science in politics:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23331080-400-of-presidents-and-pl...

Not that much on Trump, but interesting and I reckon fits as well here as anywhere.

Someday President Tyson (if the Republic survives)? But I suspect that astrophysics is more satisfying.

Mobo2000

Hey Rev, how is it clear Trump is as much of a warmonger as Hillary?   Hillary has a record.  Trump has sent out a lot of hot air.   Note that the warmongering statements posted above by NDPP have bipartisan support.

Prior to the election, I looked at the difference between them as one of Definitely versus Probably.   Hillary's foreign policy was going to be awful, definitely.   Trump's probably will be.    ETA:   To the extent that either of them (or the US President in general) actually has the ability to substantially direct american foreign policy.  

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

As he is somewhat uninformed on international affairs, I expect Trump to grease the squeaky wheels that America has pandered to for domestic political reasons. 

bekayne
NDPP

'Deep State Wins'...Trump is Being Tamed To Toe The Line   -  by Finian Cunningham

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/373493-trump-deep-state-russia-tillerson/

"Donald Trump 'finally concedes' Russia hacked the elections, crowed the US media following his first news conference this week. That seeming turnaround by Trump signals 'The Donald' is being tamed to toe the 'official' Washington line. That line centers on the US pushing a belligerent policy toward Russia.

Together, the shift by Trump and his incoming cabinet toward a more frosty stance on Russia, signals that a coercive taming process is underway by the Washington establishment, with sinister implications for supposed US democracy..."

6079_Smith_W

I have to say NDPP I am getting quite a bit of enjoyment watching you play the apologist for Donald Trump. You are taking this enemy of my enemy thing to places I had not thought possible.

Mobo2000

Smith, this is so disappointing.   You are calling NDPP an apologist for Donald Trump? 

Perhaps NDPP was hoping Trump would be sincere in his pre-election promises with regards to Russia.    

6079_Smith_W

Right. Because he has such good intentions.

Rev Pesky

Mobo2000 wrote:

Hey Rev, how is it clear Trump is as much of a warmonger as Hillary?   Hillary has a record.  Trump has sent out a lot of hot air.   Note that the warmongering statements posted above by NDPP have bipartisan support.

Prior to the election, I looked at the difference between them as one of Definitely versus Probably.   Hillary's foreign policy was going to be awful, definitely.   Trump's probably will be.    ETA:   To the extent that either of them (or the US President in general) actually has the ability to substantially direct american foreign policy.  

The Trump apologists were all pointing at Russia, but forgot there's a whole world out there, including Chiina. Trump has gone out of his way to appoint people who have descrbed Russia as a threat, even the primary threat, in the world. But what about the Middle East, what about China. We've already seen Trump trying to inflame the situation by suggesting the USA abandon the 'one China' policy, appoint a confirmed Zionist settler as ambassador to Israel, casually state that Mexico will pay for the wall he intends to build on the border.

Trump has already said he'd like to see a new arms race, build more nuclear weapons, establish military control over the South China Sea. What more do you want?

As far as Trump's 'record', he doesn't have one because he's never been in control of foreign relations. To accept that as an indication he 'might' not turn out to be a war monger is naive in the extreme. He has always demonstrated that he's a bully, that he can't accept any kind of criticism, that he lashes out at anyone he considers to have slighted him.

One thing that's unmistakeable about Trump is his inability to see possible consequences. That, by itself, is extremely dangerous. Couple that attribute with an unstable personality, ready to be offended at the drop of a hat, and it becomes a bomb waiting to go off.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Trump ran as a populist but it is clear he is supported by one group of billionaires in the US oligarchy while Clinton was supported by a different group of billionaires in the same oligarchy. They all must be laughing at the fools who actually think they had a horse in the race.

Wow who would have thought that the only clear winner after the election would be the military/oil oligarchy.

NDPP

6079_Smith_W wrote:

I have to say NDPP I am getting quite a bit of enjoyment watching you play the apologist for Donald Trump. You are taking this enemy of my enemy thing to places I had not thought possible.

'Sticks and stones,' Smith. Certainly not your mendacious little calumnies...

6079_Smith_W

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Trump ran as a populist but it is clear he is supported by one group of billionaires in the US oligarchy while Clinton was supported by a different group of billionaires in the same oligarchy.

You know, not that I don't think Slavoj Žižek is a brainless ass; he is one.  But at least he had the good sense to recognize that things are going to be far worse under Trump. And the honesty to say so. That is why he is happy because he thinks that this is going to bring this all closer to revolution. 

In that, well, he just proves himself the arrogant idealogue dumbass that he is.

 

Mobo2000

Hey Rev, I agree with Krop above.    Obama had already annouced his intention to build up the nuclear arsenal, and Hillary would have continued it.  

With regards to personality, I don't buy much of the Trump is a hothead/finger on the button stuff.   I think he is smarter than the left generally credits him, and part of his bluster is calculated.   ETA:   Consider Reagan, who in the second term was becoming senile, believed in ghosts and was clearly not a person of great intelligence or foresight.    There have been idiotic lunatics with their fingers on the button before.

To me it is an open question how much influence the president actually has on foreign policy.   I think their personality counts, but  not overly so.   Largely they have choices to make that are within narrow options they do not control.  But within those narrow options, Hillary had been in full support for the most dangerous one on the table at the time -- no fly zones in Syria, beefing up NATO, 'containing' Russia.   And her record on Libya, Iraq and Iran was equally terrible. So we knew what we were going to get.

Trump was an unknown.   I sympathize with the people who voted for him hoping he was actually going to be an anti-war candidate.

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