The Trump Administration

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bekayne

Paladin1 wrote:

Statistically speaking if you're a family in Pakistan or a place like that you're safer with Trump in office than Clinton.

What about Iran?

bekayne

Paladin1

bekayne wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:

Statistically speaking if you're a family in Pakistan or a place like that you're safer with Trump in office than Clinton.

What about Iran?

Yes.

Or Libya where the US murdered the countries leader and Clinton was cracking jokes and laughing about it on camera.

NorthReport

This is a meaningless comment as Trump is not even in office yet

Paladin1 wrote:

When it comes to politicians what they say they're going to do is meaningless. They flipflop more than a fish out of water.  Trump talks a lot of shit. The only semi-solid way to judge a politicians future bevahior is their past actions.

 

When it comes to murder and mayhem a hell of a lot of innocent people were killed by bombs and drone stikes under Obama and Clinton.   Will Trump be a paper tiger or launch tacticical nukes? Statistically speaking if you're a family in Pakistan or a place like that you're safer with Trump in office than Clinton.

NDPP

'It Can't Happen Here' - Color Revolution by Force

https://t.co/7c6tgzNxFz

"The 'Donald Trump likes Russia' and 'Russia bad' strategy was propagated by the Clinton campaign. It built on constant US incitement against Russia after the US coup in Ukraine partially failed - and after the Russian intervention on the side of the government in Syria.

Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State was the main force behind the original anti-Russian campaign. When Clinton lost the election to Trump, the theme connecting Trump and Russia was continued and fanned by parts of the US intelligence community. 

Now the head of the Central Intelligence Agency, John Brennan, warns the President-elect to 'watch his tongue'. Is there any precedent of some 'intelligence' flunky threatening a soon to be President?

This has been, all together, a well thought-out propaganda campaign to reinforce the scheme Clinton and her overlords have been pushing for quite some time: Russia is bad and a danger. Trump is aligned with Russia. Something needs to be done against Trump but most importantly against Russia.

Propaganda works. The campaign is having some effect. Such extensive and expensive campaigns are not run by chance. They have a larger purpose. Originally the campaign was only directed against Russia with the apparent aim of reigniting a (quite profitable) cold war. 

Seen from some distance, it now looks more like the preparation for a typical CIA-induced Color Revolution.

So, what happens after some 'Trump supporter' on January 20 starts to shoot into the demonstrating masses (and into the police cordons)?

What if the CIA, DHS and DNI then detect and certify that the ensuing massacre was a 'Russian plot'...?"

http://rabble.ca/comment/1462805#comment-1462805

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

 If you don't want to hear his analysis of what happened with his members it just says you have a closed mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_dJ0d5SrOc

I was referring to NDPP,not Leo Gerard. Maybe you should take your own advice and read what is actually being said and referred.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Paladin1 wrote:
The only semi-solid way to judge a politicians future bevahior is their past actions.

Paladin1 wrote:
Statistically speaking if you're a family in Pakistan or a place like that you're safer with Trump in office than Clinton.

Are these "statistics" based on his past actions as President?  Or on what semi-solid info are you basing your prediction?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

alan smithee wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

 If you don't want to hear his analysis of what happened with his members it just says you have a closed mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_dJ0d5SrOc

I was referring to NDPP,not Leo Gerard. Maybe you should take your own advice and read what is actually being said and referred.

I read what you wrote carefully. NDPP was talking about Leo and his comments were not out of line nor particularly praising of Trump. You basically told him that if he says anything about why Clinton lost he must also attack Trump in the same sentence. I love it that you are one of the people who love to talk about freedom of expression. On babble you want people to have the freedom to express outrage at Trump however any deviation and you are a Putin troll. 

 

quizzical

it's just one big game of Risk the way i see it.

the 'what happens and ifs' are annoying though.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Remember when Trump actually winning seemed like a joke?  Like when Michael Moore campaigned to elect a ficus tree to Congress?

Hands up if you long for that innocent and carefree time.

Rev Pesky

Paladin1 wrote:
...When it comes to murder and mayhem a hell of a lot of innocent people were killed by bombs and drone stikes under Obama and Clinton.   Will Trump be a paper tiger or launch tacticical nukes? Statistically speaking if you're a family in Pakistan or a place like that you're safer with Trump in office than Clinton.

Speaking of which, what is Trump's position on drone killings. So far as I know he hasn't said a word about it. Has he promised to end the drone program, stop the killings?

bekayne

Rev Pesky wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:
...When it comes to murder and mayhem a hell of a lot of innocent people were killed by bombs and drone stikes under Obama and Clinton.   Will Trump be a paper tiger or launch tacticical nukes? Statistically speaking if you're a family in Pakistan or a place like that you're safer with Trump in office than Clinton.

Speaking of which, what is Trump's position on drone killings. So far as I know he hasn't said a word about it. Has he promised to end the drone program, stop the killings?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWejiXvd-P8

Or maybe he means bombing them with love.

NDPP

In a Stunning Pair of Interviews, Trump Slams NATO And EU, Threatens BMW With Tax; Prepared to 'Cut Ties' With Merkel

https://t.co/hFjQnRQ9uU

"In two separate and quite striking interviews with Germany's Bild and London's Sunday Times, Donald Trump did what he failed to do in his first US press conference, and covered an extensive amount of policy and strategy, much of which however will likely please neither the pundits nor the markets..."

Trump's Delusions: Halting Eurasian Integration and Saving 'US World Order'   -  by Federico Pieraccini

https://t.co/61yigl3Z57

"In this fourth and final analysis I will focus on a possible strategic shift in the approach to foreign policy from Washington. The most likely hypothesis suggests that Trump intends to prevent the ongoing integration between Russia, China and Iran."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Quote:
US President-elect Donald Trump has hinted that the US could lift its sanctions against Russia, called Merkel’s migrant policy “a catastrophic mistake” and branded NATO “obsolete” in a new interview for The Times and Bild.

The interview was given in the President-elect’s office in Trump Tower, just days before his inauguration.

Trump was quite straightforward in speaking out in favor of some common ground with Moscow.

“They have sanctions on Russia — let’s see if we can make some good deals with Russia. For one thing, I think nuclear weapons should be way down and reduced very substantially,” Trump said to the two media outlets.

The Military Industrial Complex won't wait for an impeachment. Donald Trump is a brave man to say these things.

Quote:
US policies came under fire afterward, with Trump branding the US-Iran nuclear agreement “one of the dumbest deals” he’s ever seen, and then calling the invasion of Iraq “possibly the worst decision, ever made in the history of our country. It’s like throwing rocks into a beehive.”

This is impressive. Now let's see what he does and whether he's allowed to ... live.

Sean in Ottawa

quizzical wrote:

it's just one big game of Risk the way i see it.

the 'what happens and ifs' are annoying though.

This is the truth.

I think that we ought to be able to recognize the dangers of Trump -- and they are certainly significant -- without being an apologist for Clinton. The foreign policy of the Us has led us to a dangerous place where none of the options of tha last election offered any comfort.

I think it is ridiculous to suggest that Trump makes the world safer than Clinton would have. She was a hawk no question. Trump is man with a pile of hatreds and a shaky hold on reality who surrounds himself with hawks and is prone to tirades. If you want safety you were not going to get it from either one.

The differences were that Clinton at least did not oppose the notion of man-made Climate change, did not advance an agenda of overt racism, and sexism. Clinton may have done little to help people of lower income but she would not have waged all-out war on them and she would not have supported the attacks on unions that the republicans are set to engage in.

Both sides were promising a disastrous foreign policy but Trump was promising to match that with sexism, racism, right wing domestic policies and put all of this up to his personal whims. Trump is not currently in conflict with Russia but I am not betting that this benefit would last the next time he is irritated by them.

I see nothing to tell me that his policy will be more towards peace and non-intervention than Clinton when all is done. Trump's allies will make sure of that.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Clinton has been prevented from starting WW3 and annihilating life on Planet Earth. This is a good thing. Frodo, which is the American electorate, did not give "Galadriel" Clinton the Ring of Power and she won't be causing the people to "love her and despair". Too phucking bad.

Your assessment, by missing this, discredits all the rest of your claims. eta: I agree, however, that domestically Trump is going to be big trouble. But a thermonuclear blast cloud is also "big trouble".

Happy trails.

bekayne

ikosmos wrote:

Quote:
US policies came under fire afterward, with Trump branding the US-Iran nuclear agreement “one of the dumbest deals” he’s ever seen, and then calling the invasion of Iraq “possibly the worst decision, ever made in the history of our country. It’s like throwing rocks into a beehive.”

This is impressive. Now let's see what he does and whether he's allowed to ... live.

You agree with him?

bekayne

ikosmos wrote:

Clinton has been prevented from starting WW3 and annihilating life on Planet Earth.

About as likely as Trump starting WW3 with China

NDPP

Meet the Deplorables  

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/13/meet-the-deplorables/

"Democrat support for the rich and connected creates an odd dynamic for the bourgeois liberals pushing the 'resist Trump' movement. From the perspective of those left behind - and a lot of people were, do you give four or eight more years to the people who left you behind or do you try something else? 

The displaced workers I've met tended to know more about the Democrats actual policies than Democrats did, possibly because they've lived them. The half of the electorate that voted for Donald Trump can rightly ask Democrats where they've been for the last eight years.

Russia didn't force Barack Obama to be an austerity-loving, neoliberal tool. When millions of people are tossed onto an economic garbage heap, it's politics 101 to expect a response. And before you call the response ugly, take a look at what was done to those who were tossed away. 

How ugly was that? How ugly would it be if it was done to you?"

NDPP

Trump Again Threatens To Tear Up One China Policy

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/01/16/chin-j16.html

"Trump's threats of trade war measures as well as his remarks on Taiwan, the South China Sea and Korea are utterly reckless. All three are highly volatile flashpoints that have the potential to provoke war."

Sean in Ottawa

ikosmos wrote:

Clinton has been prevented from starting WW3 and annihilating life on Planet Earth. This is a good thing. Frodo, which is the American electorate, did not give "Galadriel" Clinton the Ring of Power and she won't be causing the people to "love her and despair". Too phucking bad.

Your assessment, by missing this, discredits all the rest of your claims. eta: I agree, however, that domestically Trump is going to be big trouble. But a thermonuclear blast cloud is also "big trouble".

Happy trails.

Yes I agree Clinton is stopped  -- but the risk is now Trump who is source of the risk of "starting WW3 and annihilating life on Planet Earth"

The risk for the people is not much differnt if it is Clinton or Trump starting it.

Of course Trump is a greater threat environmentally aside from war.

Clinton would have been a danger but to say Trump is less of a danger is a mistake -- even if the way he might do it and the reasons are different.

josh

ikosmos wrote:

Quote:
US President-elect Donald Trump has hinted that the US could lift its sanctions against Russia, called Merkel’s migrant policy “a catastrophic mistake” and branded NATO “obsolete” in a new interview for The Times and Bild.

The interview was given in the President-elect’s office in Trump Tower, just days before his inauguration.

Trump was quite straightforward in speaking out in favor of some common ground with Moscow.

“They have sanctions on Russia — let’s see if we can make some good deals with Russia. For one thing, I think nuclear weapons should be way down and reduced very substantially,” Trump said to the two media outlets.

The Military Industrial Complex won't wait for an impeachment. Donald Trump is a brave man to say these things.

Quote:
US policies came under fire afterward, with Trump branding the US-Iran nuclear agreement “one of the dumbest deals” he’s ever seen, and then calling the invasion of Iraq “possibly the worst decision, ever made in the history of our country. It’s like throwing rocks into a beehive.”

This is impressive. Now let's see what he does and whether he's allowed to ... live.

I think you meant to say blackmailed, not brave, man.

josh

Fascist Israeli settler leaders will attend fascist Trump's inauguration.

http://forward.com/news/israel/360038/israeli-settler-leaders-will-flock...

Rev Pesky

double post

NDPP

CrossTalk Bullhorns: Real News

https://youtu.be/iW2EzgKtK14

"With only days left before the inauguration of Donald Trump, it appears the intelligence community is at war with itself. Are we witnessing an attempted coup?

 

John Pilger on Trump

https://youtu.be/S8pkhLjSPg4

"China became the bogeyman..."

Rev Pesky

ikosmos wrote:
Clinton has been prevented from starting WW3 and annihilating life on Planet Earth...

This is possibly the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. No rational capitalist is going to start a nuclear war. All capital really wants is a stable environment for investments. 

Paladin1

NorthReport wrote:

This is a meaningless comment as Trump is not even in office yet

 

 

I'll repost in 4 days.

 

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Are these "statistics" based on his past actions as President?  Or on what semi-solid info are you basing your prediction?

It's reasonable to believe Clintons behavior and choices would reflect her past and the history of the government she currently works under.  Trump could be better or he could be worse.  When you look at the US's history even in the last year the unknown still seems safer.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Paladin1 wrote:

It's reasonable to believe Clintons behavior and choices would reflect her past and the history of the government she currently works under.  Trump could be better or he could be worse.  When you look at the US's history even in the last year the unknown still seems safer.

But that would be judgement call, not a logical necessity. One might, contrariwise, argue that the risk of empowering a person with the emotional maturity of a 5 year old and with serious personality issues to make decisions of war and peace is greater than that with a hawkish but rational adult.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

[try reducing the size of the image so those reading the thread don't have to scroll up and down AND right to left.

C'mon. This is an asshole move. It ruins the thread.]

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Rev Pesky wrote:

ikosmos wrote:
Clinton has been prevented from starting WW3 and annihilating life on Planet Earth...

This is possibly the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. No rational capitalist is going to start a nuclear war. All capital really wants is a stable environment for investments.

Trump is a pragmatist not an ideologue like Clinton (R2P "liberal") or the swarm of neo-cons that she is allied with. These ideologues cannot be compromised with. This is in marked contrast to the approach of a businessman like Trump who just wants to make deals (the way YOU describe the view of capital generally). Even with China, and the apparent abandonment of the "one China policy" is, I think, merely an opening bargaining position that will change once deals are made.

The example of Ukraine, given on Peter Lavelle's show by Dima Babych, is a useful comparison. Yanukovich, Poroshenko's predecessor, once he defeated Clinton clone Timoshenko (a real monster), found himself trying to compromise with Ukrainian uber-nationalists/fascists, neo-cons barking orders from the US regime throught their puppets, and so on. This was his downfall, in a word.They aimed to destroy him from day one of his government and they succeeded.

They were completely unwilling to compromise. It is the same with the cabal of DNC and neo-con zealots. They will not compromise and the more surely Trump recognizes that, and, so far I think he does, the better.

Have a nice day.

 

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

I disagree. It did not ruin the thread. 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

I'd be glad to reduce it. What pixel width would be acceptable to you?

NDPP

Breaking: In both House and Senate, the demolition of Obamacare is now underway. Even some GOP Governors fear this begins a frontal attack on Medicaid. The great betrayal of campaign promises, customary in western leadership, has already begun. Perhaps this time though, with this president, the people will rise. All eyes will be on Washington on Jan 20.

josh

Rev Pesky wrote:

ikosmos wrote:
Clinton has been prevented from starting WW3 and annihilating life on Planet Earth...

This is possibly the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. No rational capitalist is going to start a nuclear war. All capital really wants is a stable environment for investments. 


Yes, it is pretty ridiculous.

josh

ikosmos wrote:

[try reducing the size of the image so those reading the thread don't have to scroll up and down AND right to left.

C'mon. This is an asshole move. It ruins the thread.]

Believe me, this thread was ruined long before this.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

So it doesn't scroll across the screen.

...................................................................

The so-called "deep state", now in an open conspiracy to overthrow the President-elect, with public discussion of Trump's impeachment, spurious claims of Russian blackmail, and all the other tradecraft, together with the politisization of the "intelligence community" (a much better term is the Washington "blob" though the latter refers to the chattering classes generally),  was, it is important to say, doing this garbage before Trump.

Obama's foreign policy, e.g., in Syria, was sabotaged by the Pentagon and the CIA, for example, having their proxies LITERALLY FIGHTING EACH OTHER IN SYRIA, shows that the deep state has,already, some practice at this.

They have plenty of practice in regime change outside the USA. What is new is that the techniques are "coming home".

One historian said that what Hitler did that was new was to apply the barbaric atrocities of the colonial powers on fellow Europeans. So, too, the vile destruction of democracy is coming home to the Empire.

Every Empire eats itself, eventually. What's new about this one?

Nothing.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

ikosmos wrote:
So it doesn't scroll across the screen.

It doesn't scroll across my screen, because I use a 27in monitor. I have no idea what might or might not cause scrolling on whatever device(s) you view babble on.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Right, so you don't give a shit about other babblers.

Gotcha.

Sean in Ottawa

ikosmos wrote:

Right, so you don't give a shit about other babblers.

Gotcha.

Huh,

Isn't the point that he did not know?

Presuming it was done on purpose and saying it was an asshole move is got his cooperation which says something.

Why not just ask for what you want without making assumptions about why it is the way it is?

BTW -- it is about resolution not size.

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

I think if you are in a bad mood, you should count to 10 before posting.

bekayne

ikosmos wrote:

[try reducing the size of the image so those reading the thread don't have to scroll up and down AND right to left.

C'mon. This is an asshole move. It ruins the thread.]

Is this better?

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Well, at least you're getting the idea of (a) a picture that fits, and (b) the theme of Empire, which is critical to get right. 

But I think Trump is more like MPFC "Life of Brian" figure, don't you?

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

As I was saying:

tom tomorrow cartoon

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Thanks, bekayne, I used the same 640 pixel width you did. Hopefully this will satisfy everyone.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

ikosmos wrote:

But I think Trump is more like MPFC "Life of Brian" figure, don't you?

Trump is not even slightly like Brian. Brian was a naive, idealistic, rather nice young man. Trump is a bloated, disgusting, ancient toad filled with hatred, racism and misogyny. He was never properly socialized as a child, and would have been a complete failure in life had he not inherited great wealth.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

OK, maybe I remember the film wrong. I thought Brian was a bit of an idiot or foolish person.

voice of the damned

ikosmos wrote:

OK, maybe I remember the film wrong. I thought Brian was a bit of an idiot or foolish person.

 

Sort of the naive simpleton who speaks the truth. When the mob, believing him to be the Messiah, finally cajoles him into giving a sermon, he explains how people need to think for themselves, and not just blindly follow others. As I recall, it's clear that it's meant to be understood as the authorial voice of the Pythons(or whichever one wrote that scene anyway).

voice of the damned

^ And I was just reminded by the internet, the crowd inadvertantly negates Brian's sermon by mindlessly repeating everything he tells them...

BRIAN: You are all individuals!

CROWD: We are all individuals!

 

Rev Pesky

Here is Trump on nuclear weapons. First from an interview posted up thread:

 

Quote:
Trump was quite straightforward in speaking out in favor of some common ground with Moscow.

“They have sanctions on Russia — let’s see if we can make some good deals with Russia. For one thing, I think nuclear weapons should be way down and reduced very substantially,” Trump said to the two media outlets.

Then there was this tweet from him in December:

 

Quote:
Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump

The United States must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes

8:50 AM - 22 Dec 2016

Which is the real Donald Trump?

 

 

 

Sean in Ottawa

Rev Pesky wrote:

Here is Trump on nuclear weapons. First from an interview posted up thread:

 

Quote:
Trump was quite straightforward in speaking out in favor of some common ground with Moscow.

“They have sanctions on Russia — let’s see if we can make some good deals with Russia. For one thing, I think nuclear weapons should be way down and reduced very substantially,” Trump said to the two media outlets.

Then there was this tweet from him in December:

 

Quote:
Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump

The United States must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes

8:50 AM - 22 Dec 2016

Which is the real Donald Trump?

Couple possibilities:

Using business style harball for negotiations in diplomacy, a very risky strategy

This is him and it is subject to mood, personal whims and is erratic.

One of these is him and the other is a lie -- meaning the real DJT is well hidden and not subject to any kind of review.

I see no positive interpretation.

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