Trump starts pulling troops out of Afghanistan

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WWWTT
Trump starts pulling troops out of Afghanistan

First the link

https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/trump-orders-troops-out-of-afghanistan_us_5c1c5c0ce4b0407e9078fd10

Not so sure how babblers are going to react to Trump doing this?

WWWTT

At first appearance this would be the end of the longest war the US imperialist forces have ever been involved in. 

And for all of those progressives that thought Hillary should have won in 2016, I hate to say it (not really) but, you’re not a progressive!

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

They should have supported the man of peace.

Next up,  with the money this saves:  health care for everyone!

NDPP

The history of US troop strength in Afghanistan has been up and down. Let's see what the actual facts on the ground may bring. More on Afghanistan here:

The Afghan People Will Win #27

http://rabble.ca/comment/4708361#comment-4708361

WWWTT

Ya sure NDPP we’ll have to wait and see what actually happens. 

But I predicted this Trump character wasn’t a war pig like Obama, and so far my prediction is panning out. 

I also predicted that a lot of so called progressives would get pissed off that if they’re favourite punching bag Trump ever turned out to be anything less than a war pig than Obama was, they would get very uncomfortable. Kind of makes you wonder who the war pigs really are hey?

I wonder what Amy Goodman and Democracy Now will say about this? Or even rabble? I notice whenever Justin does something remotely progressive, rabble, is quick to shower him with praise  

 

WWWTT

Mr. Magoo wrote:

They should have supported the man of peace.

Next up,  with the money this saves:  health care for everyone!

Right on schedule Mr Magoo!

bekayne

WWWTT wrote:

Ya sure NDPP we’ll have to wait and see what actually happens. 

But I predicted this Trump character wasn’t a war pig like Obama, and so far my prediction is panning out. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/11/13/the-u-s-never-drop...

According to U.S. Air Forces Central Command data, manned and unmanned aircraft released 5,213 weapons between January and the end of September 2018.

Previously, 2010 held the record for weapons dropped on Afghanistan with 5,101 releases recorded in total. That was a deadly year which saw 711 ISAF troops and 1,271 civilians killed. Towards the end of Obama's presidency, the number of bombs dropped declined with 947 instances in 2015 and 1,337 in 2016. Since President Trump announced a new Afghan strategy last August and committed more troops to the country, the number of bombs dropped by the U.S. coalition has surged dramatically.

NDPP

"American presidents come and go. The vital interests of America remain." - Bill Clinton

WWWTT

Clinton wasn’t talking about Vietnam was he? But we’ll see. I’d like to be optimistic, and this announcement is encouraging 

NDPP

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/9nRLhoPQzRo

"Trump planning Afghanistan withdrawal."

Again, I'll believe it when I see it.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

This doesn't vindicate the argument that keeping Hillary out was worth subjecting us to Trump.  OK, Trump may have done this(there's no reason to assume it's not a trick, but we'll see)but there's no way it erases his support of the alt-right and his encouragement of a massive increase in toxic hatred and violence against women, people of color, LGBTQ people and immigrants.  

Following your line of argument, it's fine that Nixon and Kissinger organized and supported a "free-market fascist" coup in Chile and pushed for massive cuts in the Great Society programs, because they finally brought U.S. troops home from Vietnam in January 1973.

 

Paladin1

Using history as an indicator of future behavior it's quite plausable that Clinton would have been quite the war monger. Her record as a secratary of state? Holy shit balls.

As for the toxic violence the US left is hardly a bunch of bleeting sheep. You wear a MAGA hat and you're liable to get a steel bar to the head. But "it's okay".  *rolly eyes*

Nature abhors a vaccum they say. As the US pulls out other malign actors will slide into place. Going to be a real shitshow over there. I'd give it a few years and we'll be back, maybe under a lovely UN mission eh?  Trump's pulling soldiers out of the middle east, that's gotta burn a lot of people.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Paladin1 wrote:

Using history as an indicator of future behavior it's quite plausable that Clinton would have been quite the war monger. Her record as a secratary of state? Holy shit balls.

As for the toxic violence the US left is hardly a bunch of bleeting sheep. You wear a MAGA hat and you're liable to get a steel bar to the head. But "it's okay".  *rolly eyes*

Nature abhors a vaccum they say. As the US pulls out other malign actors will slide into place. Going to be a real shitshow over there. I'd give it a few years and we'll be back, maybe under a lovely UN mission eh?  Trump's pulling soldiers out of the middle east, that's gotta burn a lot of people.

I don't defend Hillary on foreign policy.  But clearly, the last two years have proved she wasn't SINGULARLY evil on anything.

Paladin1

What we're seeing now is the birth of a new era that witnesses the US pulling back from their self-stylised world police role. Bases closing, black sites collapsing and disapearing, troops pulling back. Trump said he would do it and he is.

Can the ANA and ANP stand on their own legs against the Taliban and ISIS in Afghanistan? Absolutely not. It's a death sentence for our "allies". That's the price of doing business with the US.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Maybe Putin told him to pull out. 

I agree with Ken on this. Let's not use this as an opportunity to excuse his racism and hatred.

maybe Kim Jung Un asked him politely to please pull out. 

No one knows what his rationale is for doing this and his reasoning can end up to be quite scary and childish.

i doubt that he is sincerely interested in world peace or humanitarian initiatives. He is a dangerous and unpredictable buffoon IMO and although I want the troupe out of there I don't think very highly of his decision making abilities or motives.

this decision of his can be a catalyst for the Republicans to finally get rid of him and replace him with another dirt bag.

i want Trump gone. Period.

Paladin1

Misfit wrote:

Maybe Putin told him to pull out.

maybe Kim Jung Un asked him politely to please pull out. 

 

 

 

Maybe he read rabble ;)

 

Out of Afghanistan NOW!

Trump: Okey dokey

quizzical

Trump just fired dude who resigned lol 

Cody87

Is it not obvious that Trump unlilaterally pulling out of Syria and reducing the involvement in Afghanistan by the US military is just him lashing out at the military industrial complex because of the Mueller investigation and his pending impeachment by the new House?*

*(not saying the Senate will convict btw)

The people that control the Uniparty are going after his interests, so he's going after theirs.

 

He's not doing it because it's good for Syria or for America or because it's good for "the troops that need to come home." He's doing it to hurt those that benefit from war, yes for selfish reasons so don't think I'm giving him credit here.

voice of the damned

Misfit wrote:

Maybe Putin told him to pull out. 

I agree with Ken on this. Let's not use this as an opportunity to excuse his racism and hatred.

maybe Kim Jung Un asked him politely to please pull out. 

No one knows what his rationale is for doing this and his reasoning can end up to be quite scary and childish.

i doubt that he is sincerely interested in world peace or humanitarian initiatives. He is a dangerous and unpredictable buffoon IMO and although I want the troupe out of there I don't think very highly of his decision making abilities or motives.

this decision of his can be a catalyst for the Republicans to finally get rid of him and replace him with another dirt bag.

i want Trump gone. Period.

For the past few decades, Trump has been on record as being pretty much an isolationist, and is probably the only person holding such views to make it to the presidency since the concept of isolationism became relevant in US foreign-policy.

So, I honestly wouldn't rule it out that his motivations here are no more complex than "Why the hell should good old American boys have to die to stop a bunch of ragheads from killing each other?" Sure, it's probably also the policy that Putin and Erdogan want, for their own equally venal reasons, but that doesn't mean that they're neccessarily the force behind it. (If Russia, for one, were dictating Trump's actions, I think US policy toward Russia would be quite different right now.)

Anyway, as someone who wants all foreign troops out of Afghanistan and Syria, two cheers from me on this. I'm still a little worried about Trump's underlying reasoning, however, since the isolationist rant in my second paragraph isn't quite my idea of clear-headed statecraft.

NDPP

'It's a war that can't be won, but Washington won't admit defeat.' (and vid)

https://twitter.com/IntheNow_tweet/status/1049585787451379712

Misfit Misfit's picture

VOTD, Cody, and Ken I agree. I was speculating on reasons why he made the decision to try to convey his lack of ethical depth in his decision making.

while I strongly support US troups leaving the area I am ill at ease with his motives for doing so.

NDPP

"Hillary Clinton might have come closer than any top US official to conceding the horrendous long-term cost of the CIA's proxy war in Afghanistan: 'The people we are fighting there we funded 20 years ago.' She soon went on to replicate that policy to destabilize Syria..."

https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1080646223638482944

Sean in Ottawa

Trump is not so much an isolationist. He is as he says amerika first. He does not want to engage with other countries in alliances but is happy to bully.

I do believe that he wants to pull the troops out of Afghanistan -- but not becuase he has nice feelings about it or wants to leave it alone. He would prefer to bomb it from a safe distance. Cheaper.

I don't view his position to the world as any better than any other American. Just a difference in how his aggression would manifest itself. Trump is not a guy who feels like he needs to pretend his aggression is about building a new society or government or helping anyone.

Let's not forget his first apporach to Afghanistan was to drop the biggest bomb ever dropped on that country.

Of course some here will fall over themselves pretending that he has some kind of positive feelings for the rest of the world in a way that he does not have for those who live in the same country he lives in.

Trump is not about peace: he is about saving money and making aggression cheaper. He aslo wants in every way to be seen as different and smarter and so anything anyone else did cannot be supported. Finally he is making new personal allies. I am sure he would be happy to see people die in service of his new alliances. Trump, the guy who wanted a big military parade, wants his own wars and his own victims and victory. Afghanistan has the good fortune to be a war that previous presidents supported.

When in trouble politically Trump will not mind someone in another country to die for his distraction. Don't imagine for a second he is different from other US presidents in this regard -- he just won't want to participate in a war previous presidents engaged in.

 

josh
WWWTT

And ya Trump is basically right. He just blew the doors off half of the so called progressives in the west because I doubt any so called progressive politicians in the US would call out a Reagan policy. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

He was right that terrorists were attacking both the legitimate Afghan government and its SSR neighbors. What he failed to mention is they were funded, armed and trained by the US.

josh

I never knew these “terrorists” were going into Russia.  Thanks for the history lesson Messrs. Trump, WT and Kropotkin.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I don't think they went to Russia, that's why I said SSR's. So I am do take it that in this age of Trump that all one has to do is read what he says and presume that it wrong.

Operation Cyclone happened and Trump's recounting of some of it either rightly (or wrongly as he apt to do) does not change the history.

As it turns out I was partly responsible for funding that war.

voice of the damned

Trump is not so much an isolationist. He is as he says amerika first. He does not want to engage with other countries in alliances but is happy to bully.

Actually, the most prominent isolationist group in history was called The America First Committee.

And when I use the term "isolationist", I don't mean it to preclude bullying, even of the military sort. It's more a question of which parts of the world one thinks the US should be militarily engaged. Pat Buchanan is an old-school, 1930s-style isolationist, but was a pretty fervent supporter of US aggression against left-wing goverments in Latin America.

I'll admit that Trump at present might not qualify as an isolationist in the original, Charles Lindbergh sense of the word, though personally that might have more to do with the influences and pressures brought to bear upon the office of the president, rather than his own original views.