Turkey: Coup d'état

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ikosmos ikosmos's picture
Turkey: Coup d'état

A  military coup d'état  is being reported in Turkey.

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ikosmos ikosmos's picture
josh

Apparently military higher ups were worried that Erdogan was going to make a big shake up in the military hierarchy.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

 

This is all happening right now so it will take some time to see where it all winds up.

One report I heard (RT) noted that Erdogan was already a prisoner. Certainly, his balancing act of rapproachment with Moscow while still doing NATO's dirty work in Syria was complicated.I can't see these events as improving the political climate in Turkey.

Gollum in Ankara has met his Mount Doom? Maybe.

MegB

The line the military is giving is restoration of constitutional law and human rights. Which is pure bullshit of course. Remains to be seen what transpires ...

contrarianna

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-m...

Intersting.

We are yet to learn what relation this coup has to the very surprising recent turn arounds by Erdogan on Russia, Israel, and Syria and his support for the jihadists.Was someone already holding a somewhat figurative gun to his head?

Plus, what was the foreknowledge or involvement, if any, of Turky's NATO senior partner?  

josh

MegB wrote:

The line the military is giving is restoration of constitutional law and human rights. Which is pure bullshit of course. Remains to be seen what transpires ...


Same line coup makers the world over use. We had to destroy democracy in order to save it.

contrarianna

josh wrote:
MegB wrote:

The line the military is giving is restoration of constitutional law and human rights. Which is pure bullshit of course. Remains to be seen what transpires ...

Same line coup makers the world over use. We had to destroy democracy in order to save it.

True, but in this case there was not much democracy left to destroy under Erdogan's autocracy.

Of course it could end up worse after the dust settles.

Unionist

Turkey has had a tough time with peaceful and democratic transitions in the past half century.

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Armed_Forces#Role_of_the_military_... of the military in Turkish politics[/url]

Quote:
The military had a record of intervening in politics, removing elected governments four times in the past. Indeed, it assumed power for several periods in the latter half of the 20th century. It executed three coups d'état: in 1960 (May 27 coup), in 1971 (March 12 coup), and in 1980 (September 12 coup). Following the 1960 coup d'état, the military executed the first democratically elected prime minister in Turkey, Adnan Menderes, in 1961. Most recently, it maneuvered the removal of an Islamist prime minister, Necmettin Erbakan, in 1997 (known as the February 28 memorandum).Contrary to outsider expectations, the Turkish populace was not uniformly averse to coups; many welcomed the ejection of governments they perceived as unconstitutional.

In short - who the hell knows what's going on. Wait and see.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

[from Unionist]

Quote:
... Most recently, it maneuvered the removal of an Islamist prime minister, Necmettin Erbakan, in 1997 (known as the February 28 memorandum).Contrary to outsider expectations, the Turkish populace was not uniformly averse to coups; many welcomed the ejection of governments they perceived as unconstitutional.

The military in Turkey, in contrast to the heretofore President, is know for being secular in orientation. Erdogan was know for a political orientation akin to the Muslim Brotherhood - i.e., what the Western MSM would call  "Islamist" - and he was moving in a direction that the military didn't like.

Erdogan, had to some degree, painted himself into a political corner: pro-jihadist along with the Saudis and Qatar, trying to overthrow the Syrian government; at war with the Kurds (that may not change under the military); a key NATO member (2nd largest military, larger than the UK for example, after the US in NATO); shooting down the Russian aircraft in Syria; now a rapproachment with Russia after the shootdown backfired. I think he was more and more walking a political tightrope.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

I suppose it bears mentioning; what is the sense of Canada belonging to a military alliance that includes countries like Turkey with their seemingly regular coups?

iyraste1313

At least in Turkey, the military has responsibility to maintain democracy and human rights!

Apparently Erbil is in a state of shock, with their ally? And Canada, a key player in Erbil and ally of the Islamicist Government of Turkey?

And in Canada? Who is responsible to maintain human rights and democracy? What with our Patriot Acts, Bill C-51 and the ongoing violations of the rights of Canada/s indigenous Nations? Time for a wake up call, a new constitution in Canada that guarantees our rights from our oligarch control through the rule of money?

contrarianna

Unionist wrote:

Turkey has had a tough time with peaceful and democratic transitions in the past half century.

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Armed_Forces#Role_of_the_military_... of the military in Turkish politics[/url]

Quote:
The military had a record of intervening in politics, removing elected governments four times in the past. Indeed, it assumed power for several periods in the latter half of the 20th century. It executed three coups d'état: in 1960 (May 27 coup), in 1971 (March 12 coup), and in 1980 (September 12 coup). Following the 1960 coup d'état, the military executed the first democratically elected prime minister in Turkey, Adnan Menderes, in 1961. Most recently, it maneuvered the removal of an Islamist prime minister, Necmettin Erbakan, in 1997 (known as the February 28 memorandum).Contrary to outsider expectations, the Turkish populace was not uniformly averse to coups; many welcomed the ejection of governments they perceived as unconstitutional.

In short - who the hell knows what's going on. Wait and see.

Yes. Coups, as you show, are somewhat common in Turkey.

Will the CIA/US ultimately be documented as part of this particular Turkish coup?

If not, it will be an exception. 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Given Turkey's powerful military and, frankly, lots of practice at this sort of thing (see unionist's post), I would expect outside governments - especially NATO members - to remain very quiet and say very little other than, "we hope things return to normal quickly", etc.. 

The Mayor of Ankara called for street protests but I don't know if that went anywhere. It would be interesting to know what progressive Turkish organizations are doing and saying.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

contrarianna wrote:
Yes. Coups, as you show, are somewhat common in Turkey.

Will the CIA/US ultimately be documented as part of this particular Turkish coup?

If not, it will be an exception. 

The former Pentagon staffer who was interviewed on RT said that he expected this coup to have domestic origins. Basically, that outside players were always possible but unlikely.

Frankly, the way Turkey (along with Saudi Arabia and Qatar) has been like the tail wagging the dog when it comes to policy in South West Asia (aka the Middle East) , this makes sense to me. US policy in that part of the world has been a complete recent disaster ... and it seems that its regional allies, like Turkey, have a lot to do with that.

Rev Pesky

ikosmos wrote:
...a key NATO member (2nd largest military, larger than the UK for example, after the US in NATO)...

I'm not sure where you got this information, but I have two sources that give the yearly military expenditure of Turkey as being roughly 1/3 of the UK (in US dollars). I suppose a dollar goes further in Turkey than the UK, but it still seems a stretch to Turkey has a larger military than the UK.

Global firepower

Quote:
For 2015

Turkey = USD $18 billion

UK = USD $ 55 billion

SIPRI

Quote:
For year 2015

Turkey = USD $17.7 billion

UK  =  USD $59.7 billion

 

 

Todrick of Chat...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-coup-seventeen-pol...

It appears the military and police forces are divided on the coup, there appears to be some resistance forces fighting the coup.

 

 

josh

Appears that the coup has failed.

NorthReport

Agreed. All this is going to do is sideline Turkey more and more away from the mainstream world. 

josh
ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Rev Pesky wrote:
I'm not sure where you got this information, but I have two sources that give the yearly military expenditure of Turkey as being roughly 1/3 of the UK (in US dollars). I suppose a dollar goes further in Turkey than the UK, but it still seems a stretch to Turkey has a larger military than the UK.

Global firepower  For 2015

Turkey = USD $18 billion

UK = USD $ 55 billion

SIPRI For year 2015

Turkey = USD $17.7 billion

UK  =  USD $59.7 billion

 

You're using military spending only. There are other ways to compare ...

Quote:
In 2014, Turkish armed forces ranked #10 globally, above those of Italy (Global Firepower Military Powers Ranked for 2015). They include over half a million people - more than the militaries of France and the UK combined (425K). Their equipment and training are not as top-notch, but respectable and fully compatible with NATO.

 

Turkish military

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Russian academician Andrew Korybko wrote:
HYBRID WAR IN TURKEY?

Erdogan and his Islamists might not go quietly, and the US' estimation in engineering this Gulen-influenced coup was precisely to provoke civil war.

The US felt compelled to respond to to the Russian-Turkish detente that was primed not only to revive Balkan Stream, but also to close off the Syrian border from terrorists and create a regional coalition against pro-American militant Kurdish separatists.

The fallback plan is Hybrid War, or throwing Turkey into such chaos that none of the US' competitors (Russia, China, and Iran) can strategically make use of its territory for multipolar purposes.

-------------------

A military coup in Turkey shouldn't be all that unexpected to anyone who's been following my articles, and I republished my most relevant excerpts from articles across the past year to demonstrate that I've been following this possible scenario for a while. Please refer to my earlier post and check the thread comments to access them.

link to his work on hybrid warfare

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Agreed. All this is going to do is sideline Turkey more and more away from the mainstream world. 

And give Erdogan the chance to pretend to be a conquering hero just for not getting overthrown.

Todrick of Chat...

It appears that a majority of the military hasn’t supported the coup. It will be interesting to see who was all involved in the attempted take over.

 

sherpa-finn

I have been bouncing updates to my brother who lives outside Istanbul and has been struggling along with most other residents to stay informed as internet news sites and social media have been blocked for much of the night. 

He told me of a well known 'parable' cited by a general after the last coup, that I just googled: "In Turkey we have a marriage of Islam and democracy. The child of this marriage is secularism. Now this child gets sick from time to time. The Turkish Armed Forces is the doctor which saves the child. Depending on how sick the kid is, we administer the necessary medicine to make sure the child recuperates".

Its complicated.

Todrick of Chat...

Of course, it is a very complicated country and region. It is not as black and white that others want it to be.

Rev Pesky

ikosmos wrote:

Rev Pesky wrote:
I'm not sure where you got this information, but I have two sources that give the yearly military expenditure of Turkey as being roughly 1/3 of the UK (in US dollars). I suppose a dollar goes further in Turkey than the UK, but it still seems a stretch to Turkey has a larger military than the UK.

Global firepower  For 2015

Turkey = USD $18 billion

UK = USD $ 55 billion

SIPRI For year 2015

Turkey = USD $17.7 billion

UK  =  USD $59.7 billion

 

You're using military spending only. There are other ways to compare ...

Quote:
In 2014, Turkish armed forces ranked #10 globally, above those of Italy (Global Firepower Military Powers Ranked for 2015). They include over half a million people - more than the militaries of France and the UK combined (425K). Their equipment and training are not as top-notch, but respectable and fully compatible with NATO.

Turkish military 

Your source lists Turkey behind the UK in military strength.

iyraste1313

Hopefully any criticism of this info is based on reasoned and informed content......

and if true? Who and why has the capacity to do this??

 

UPDATED: Turkish Parliament Nuked During Coup Attempt

By Ian Greenhalgh on July 15, 2016

All major media had reported a loud explosion in Ankara, the pictures show it was a nuclear blast

Update with initial analysis from VT’s nuclear expert, Jeff Smith, written after he saw the above video:

That’s a plasma blast all right. It’s a low level air burst. Most likely a small nuclear trigger. The lights didn’t go out so no major EMP field. Need to know what was the target and is there a crater. Check for melted car air conditioner radiators and on buildings too. Heat damage. etc.

Jeff then did a second-by-second analysis of that video and had this to say:

Not good. This is serious stuff….Not TNT or napalm. Not fuel air mixture. Fuel air leaves an oily residue. White phosphorus leaves a gray smoke trail. If nuke less than 0.5kt, based on fireball size and duration. Need blast damage photos to verify 100%… Looks just like the one we reported on in Syria last week on VT. These are 4th, 5th generation nuclear triggers using lithium and deuterium with a minimal amount of Uranium….. 500ft fire ball for 3 seconds max. Above ground detonation meaning air dropped. A 750lb bomb from an F-16 can’t do that. Single burst not multiple burst. – Jeff

 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Todrick of Chatsworth wrote:

Of course, it is a very complicated country and region. It is not as black and white that others want it to be.

I agree. Destroying the Ottoman Empire at the end of WW1 wasn't such a good idea after all.

Webgear

iyraste1313 wrote:

Hopefully any criticism of this info is based on reasoned and informed content......

and if true? Who and why has the capacity to do this??

 

UPDATED: Turkish Parliament Nuked During Coup Attempt

By Ian Greenhalgh on July 15, 2016

All major media had reported a loud explosion in Ankara, the pictures show it was a nuclear blast

Update with initial analysis from VT’s nuclear expert, Jeff Smith, written after he saw the above video:

That’s a plasma blast all right. It’s a low level air burst. Most likely a small nuclear trigger. The lights didn’t go out so no major EMP field. Need to know what was the target and is there a crater. Check for melted car air conditioner radiators and on buildings too. Heat damage. etc.

Jeff then did a second-by-second analysis of that video and had this to say:

Not good. This is serious stuff….Not TNT or napalm. Not fuel air mixture. Fuel air leaves an oily residue. White phosphorus leaves a gray smoke trail. If nuke less than 0.5kt, based on fireball size and duration. Need blast damage photos to verify 100%… Looks just like the one we reported on in Syria last week on VT. These are 4th, 5th generation nuclear triggers using lithium and deuterium with a minimal amount of Uranium….. 500ft fire ball for 3 seconds max. Above ground detonation meaning air dropped. A 750lb bomb from an F-16 can’t do that. Single burst not multiple burst. – Jeff

The explosion from the link you provided appears to be from a standard military ordnance device, I am going to disagree with your link and say that wasn’t a nuclear explosion.

 

 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Yeah, maybe a 4000 pounder; not to down play that... A nuke strike would be at the top of the headlines right now.

bekayne
josh

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Todrick of Chatsworth wrote:

Of course, it is a very complicated country and region. It is not as black and white that others want it to be.

I agree. Destroying the Ottoman Empire at the end of WW1 wasn't such a good idea after all.

What? Sykes-Picot was the bad idea.

josh

sherpa-finn wrote:

I have been bouncing updates to my brother who lives outside Istanbul and has been struggling along with most other residents to stay informed as internet news sites and social media have been blocked for much of the night. 

He told me of a well known 'parable' cited by a general after the last coup, that I just googled: "In Turkey we have a marriage of Islam and democracy. The child of this marriage is secularism. Now this child gets sick from time to time. The Turkish Armed Forces is the doctor which saves the child. Depending on how sick the kid is, we administer the necessary medicine to make sure the child recuperates".

Its complicated.


Since religion and secularism are opposite, I suggest a parental DNA test.

Paladin1

The Turkish military got tired of the government ordering them to look the other way and ignore the booming billion dollar oil ISIS oil business happening on and through their borders. Being orderded to shoot down a Russian war plane probably pissed off a lot of military members too because it's them who will suffer reprisals first.

SeekingAPolitic...

Incirlik Air Base sealed off, power cut off, US Consulate says

 

Turkey sealed of the american air base.  Power down.

There was clip on CNN of white gated compound with angry turks throwing stuff at it.  I camera caught a soldier, he was carrying a m16 rilfe.  Does the turkisk army us the m16 rifle.  There was no context to the picture, maybe its a dimpolatic post of the US in turkey?  It was picture after the coup was crushed because sun was up, daylight.

Last night russian tv rt news was talking about a forgien nation responsible for the coup.

 

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

I found that info on twitter account of the CNN Turk orgization

https://twitter.com/CNNTURK_ENG

 

Webgear

http://www.duffelblog.com/2016/07/turkish-soldiers-pissed-work-weekend/?...

 

"ISTANBUL – Turkish soldiers and airmen are furious after being called in this weekend to overthrow their elected government, sources report.

“President Erdogan has been an asshole for years,” Capt. Mehmet Ahmet told Duffel Blog via Skype from an F-16 cockpit. “But these jerks pick the weekend of my sister’s bridal shower to finally knock him out? It’s bullshit.”

Senior officials in the Turkish military have been quick to defend their actions, however."

 

 

Webgear

SeekingAPoliticalHome wrote:

There was clip on CNN of white gated compound with angry turks throwing stuff at it.  I camera caught a soldier, he was carrying a m16 rilfe.  Does the turkisk army us the m16 rifle.  There was no context to the picture, maybe its a dimpolatic post of the US in turkey?  It was picture after the coup was crushed because sun was up, daylight.

 

They use a mixture of small arms, as a NATO partner they are carry a M-16 variant.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_equipment_of_the_Turkish_Land_Force...

Paladin1

Webgear wrote:

SeekingAPoliticalHome wrote:

There was clip on CNN of white gated compound with angry turks throwing stuff at it.  I camera caught a soldier, he was carrying a m16 rilfe.  Does the turkisk army us the m16 rifle.  There was no context to the picture, maybe its a dimpolatic post of the US in turkey?  It was picture after the coup was crushed because sun was up, daylight.

 

They use a mixture of small arms, as a NATO partner they are carry a M-16 variant.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_equipment_of_the_Turkish_Land_Force...

 

Pretty much like GI Joe eh.  Good guys use M16s (blue lasers) bad guys use AK47s (red lasers).

 

You probably used the FN though Wink

Webgear

https://www.facebook.com/stratfor/videos/10154081325688429/?video_source...

 

Interesting video talking about issues involving Turkey.

SeekingAPolitic...

I been watching the american new channels thank god for the internet.  Turk verison of CNN is clear that airbase has been surronded by turkisk military forces.  No one id getting in or out of the airbase and power has been cut.  On the american new channels they make it seem that the power is out because of sort power fault in the system. . OOPs CNN is letting the cat out of bag finally.  5 hours after CNN turk went on the air with the news.Still no talk about the americans being blockaded

SeekingAPolitic...

Turkish President Erdoğan speaks live, calls U.S to hand over Fethullah Gulen to if U.S is strategic ally

https://twitter.com/CNNTURK_ENG

 

Finally we are getting to the heart of the matter.  Turks want gulen and they will hold the airbase hostage until get their way.  Generally this not the way things go, things are hushed up and backroom deals completed.  Not that Erdogan made the demand public, if america does not give up gulen, Erdogan loses face before the public.  If the americans gives them gulen they look weak.

 

josh

Gulen's just a scapegoat. One of several Erdogan has been using for the last 3 years. Anyway, a big reason the coup failed is that people saw what happened in Egypt.

http://www.wsj.com/article_email/turkeys-erdogan-avoids-fate-of-egypts-m...

SeekingAPolitic...

Gulen may be scapegoat but now he is a focus of friction between US and Turkey

SeekingAPolitic...

This is a rumour but a juicy rumour.  This is being repeated on #turkey

 

#Turkey's #Incirlik base used to organise & support coup.Tanker planes from Incirlik refueled the jets used in the coup attempt

 

I could not find any confrimination in any press.

SeekingAPolitic...

Rumor to fact,

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-16/turkey-accuses-us-being-behind-...

At roughtly the same time, Turkey's Minister of Labor went one step further, and accused America of being behind the coup on live Television, as it was harboring Gulen

The following my have not have correctly translated.

BREAKING: Secretary of Labor Süleyman Soylu live on news channel Haberturk: "The US is behind this coup"

 

I think the tension has gone quite a bit.

SeekingAPolitic...

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/215046

reporting the same thing.  Interestin reading.

 

http://pl.sputniknews.com/swiat/20160716/3489003/usa-turcja-pucz.html

Russian site but in Polish.

 

 

SeekingAPolitic...

http://news.trust.org/item/20160716220959-r5fee/?source=hpMostPopularThe...

 

Kerry responds to the talk that us managed the coup.

Webgear

There are some sources stating that this coup was a false flag operation, a fake coup conducted by Erdogan to purge his enemies in the country.

 

josh

Webgear wrote:

There are some sources stating that this coup was a false flag operation, a fake coup conducted by Erdogan to purge his enemies in the country.

 


Not beyond the realm of possibility. Could be Erdogan's Reichstag Fire.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Webgear wrote:
There are some sources stating that this coup was a false flag operation, a fake coup conducted by Erdogan to purge his enemies in the country.

Some sensible remarks by the (probably outlawed) Turkish Communists:

Quote:
AKP is responsible for all that took place tonight. All the factors that led to the current situation and the conditions are the product of AKP's rule and the domestic and foreign bosses that support AKP.

However, the fact that the main responsible party is AKP does not mean that the coup attempt was one that was orchestrated by Erdogan himself in order to achieve his objectives such as paving the path to an executive presidency or clearing the obstacles facing the new constitution. The tension and the rivalries between different groups within the state and the armed forces that have been known to exist for a while have turned into armed conflict. While the tension between these forces is real, it is a lie that any of the sides in this conflict represent the interests of the people. Following this, searching for the solution against AKP's rule in a military coup is as wrong as lending any support to AKP under the guise of taking a position against military coups for whatever reason. The last thing that should be done in the name of supporting freedom and human rights in Turkey is to lend support to AKP which has proven over and over that it is an enemy of humanity. While they have not orchestrated this coup, Erdoğan and AKP will make an effort to use the resulting conditions and the support they received as means to increase their legitimacy. Our people should be on the alert against steps that AKP will be certain to take in the days to come. Raising the struggle against AKP and its darkness is the only way to stop this failed coup attempt resulting in AKP's solidifying its rule and turning into a tool for transforming AKP's unstable Turkey into stability. The fact that all mosques in Turkey have broadcasted continuous Erdoğan propaganda the whole night is a concrete indication of the urgency of our task at hand.

There is no alternative but the people

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