Ukraine 2

497 posts / 0 new
Last post
NDPP
Ukraine 2
NDPP

No Coincidence in Kiev Offensive and Visit of US Officials

http://rt.com/op-edge/226515-ukrainian-military-nato-legion/

"Kiev authorities and Ukrainian army are indeed representing the interests of the NATO powers, while the military operations are bing orchestrated and synchronized with the US, a UK-based journalist Neil Clark told RT.

'It is in the interest of the Ukrainian people that there's a peace deal, that this conflict comes to an end, and that better relations, the relations with Russia, are improved, because Ukraine needs friendly relations with its next door neighbor.

But unfortunately, the government in Kiev seems hell-bent on continuing this conflict, so does unfortunately the US I think. I think the foreign powers who have stoked this up don't really want peace, because peace would mean the Ukrainian government has to sit down with the people of the east and work towards a federal solution.

I don't think they really want that..."

 

Top Ukraine Editor: Kiev Can Not Enforce Conscription - People Should Resist

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/2015/01/27/2802

"Deems the mobilization decree illegal. 'There is not enough police, prosecutors, legal staff to physically force people into the slaughterhouse. If Ukrainians have an ounce of common sense left, I doubt this mobilization will be successful, said Podlutskiy.

'In my view, the country is being transferred to foreign control, the appointment of foreigners to the post of minister is an example of that. Unfortunately, we have ceased being a state. That is, yes, we have all the formal attributes of a state, but we are a territory on which foreigners play their games, and we either participate on one or the other side of the game.

Ukraine ought to be unified but also federated,' said the Kiev journalist."

NDPP

East Ukraine Rebels Have Alternate Take on Deadly Mariupol Barrage

http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/01/27/2811

"They figure Ukraine artillery to the west of city mistook Ukraine forces in the east for a rebel advance and fired at them in panic."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Yeah, the Saker has a lengthy piece on that. The deaths by shelling in Mariupol seem like the latest in a string of false flag actions that include the shelling of the bus in Donetsk, the downing of MH_17 last July, even the sniper fire in the Maidan, &tc., &tc., ....

Needless to say, the CBC fails utterly and simply re-gurgitates, uncritically and without any challenging views, the views of the junta and then followed it up this morning with 2 "experts" who help the listeners to "interpret" the events ... correctly. Seig Heil, CBC.

NDPP

Teenage Warriors Prepare For Battle as Part of Right Sector's Ukrainian Volunteer Corps

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/teenage-warriors-prepare-for-bat...

"...We'll be back as heroes. We will fight until the end. Heroes will never die!,' Ivan says as he and the cadets step in and the bus departs to their training camp, preparing to take these men in their teens to war."

 

National Bank of Ukraine's Plan: More Inflation

http://kyivpost.com/content/business/national-bank-plans-large-scale-mon...

"Ukraine plans to inflate its way out of economic troubles. Its National Bank Governor Valeriya Gontareva said on Jan 16, the monetary base will increase by 27 percent this year. This means turning on the money printing press..."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

1. Here's a question for those who claim the "Russian invasion" version of events (to date).

Explain, please, how it is that the million Ukrainian refugees have decided to flee ... to the very country that "invaded" ? And, while you're at it, give us another example if you can.

The truth is, there aren't any examples in human history in which victims of an invasion decided to "flee" to ... the invading country.

2. Another example. It's quite easy to find the public statements by the Ukr President, Poroshenko, in which he says that the Ukrainian side will will the war because their children will go to schools and kindergartens while the "terrorist" children ... will hide in basements. This is what he actually said. 

What is the meaning of this other than that the Ukr President has made it clear that his regime ... will deliberately bomb children and thereby prevent them from going to school, learning their ABCs, etc. ?

3. Why are Crimeans being subject to more sanctions than Russia itself is, if Russia "invaded" Crimea? Does this mean that if Russia "invades" Estonia, Estonians can expect still sanctions against them? etc. Just idiotic.

And, if true, I think these show how self-evidently absurd some of the claims being made are.

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Village of Kulcheva, Odessa region, Ukraine. Locals chase an officer of the Ukrainian army who tried to ... read ... a statement about possible punishments for refusing to obey the mobilization orders for the war against Donbass.

The reply from the people: "No to war! No to war!"

Ya gotta love those women shaming the disgraceful soldiers playing at war against their countrymen ...

 

ETA: Let the despicable CBC or Western media post that little clip. Then they can "edit" the video so that it seems the women are protesting the "Russian invasion" and the "terrorists" in Donbass.

6079_Smith_W

Based on that rationale I guess the U.S. should have taken the New York draft riots as a sign they should leave their southern brethen in peace to go about their own business.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots

Is that the message you mean for us to take away from your example, ikosmos?

 

NDPP

East Ukraine Cities Shelled By Smerch Rocket Launchers, Over Dozen Killed

http://itar-tass.com/en/world/773768

"At least 12 people were killed on Wednesday when Kiev troops shelled eastern Ukraine's city of Stakhanov from Smerch heavy multiple rocket launchers, the health minister of the self-proclaimed Luhansk People's Republic (LPR) said. Around 150 people have been hospitalized over the past 24 hours as a result of shelling by Ukraine's army formations..."

 

West Reluctant To Face Reality in Ukraine: Analyst (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/01/28/395054/West-reluctant-fo-face-U...

"Press TV has conducted an interview with Dmitry Babich, with the Voice of Russia Radio from Moscow, and Michael Lane, the president of the American Institute for Foreign Policy from Washington DC, to discuss the escalating tensions between Russia and the Western countries over Ukraine.

Babich believes that the West doesn't want to accept the fact that the toppling of the former government in Ukraine, which occurred with flagrant Western support, is the main root of the current crisis in that country. Instead of apologizing for backing the 2014 cop d'etat, he said, Western countries try to lay the blame on Russia as the main cause of the chaos in Ukraine.

Michael Lane however slammed Russian President Vladimir Putin for supporting 'separatists' in southeastern Ukraine."

 

NDPP

20-11-2013 Ukraine Rada Deputy: US To Stage Civil War in Ukraine (and vid)

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2015/01/must-watch-ukrainian-deputy-us-...

"Deputy Oleg Tsarov:

'In my role as a representative of the Ukrainian people...activists of the public organisation 'Volya' turned to me...providing clear evidence....that within our territory...with support and direct participation...of the US Embassy in Kiev...the 'TechCamp' project is realised...under which preparations are being made for a civil war in Ukraine.

The 'TechCamp' project prepares specialists for information warfare...and the discrediting of state institutions using modern media...potential revolutionaries...for organizing protests...and the toppling of the State order...

The project is currently overseen and under the responsibility of the US ambassador to Ukraine...Geoffrey K Pyatt..."

 

Ukraine on the Edge of Ecological Disaster (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/Video/2015/01/27/394854/Ukraine-on-the-edge-of-ec...

Donbas - the historical name of two eastern Ukrainian regions used to be the industrial heartland of the country. It contains over 60 percent of the country's factories. Oleg fled from fighting in Luhansk in June last year. Since then he is fighting in Kiev to draw attention to the dangerous ecological situation in his native region.

There are over two dozen chemical plants which if attacked will make Luhansk and Donetsk regions uninhabitable for years. Ecologists warn of irreversible processes. The time is running out...

 

Ukrainian Oligarch Fugitives Wanted by Interpol, Pay Bribes For Israeli Citizenship

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2015/01/27/ukrainian-oligarch-fugitive...

"Galey Tzahal (Army Radio) reported today that Israel welcomed with open arms two Ukrainian oligarchs wanted by Interpol for serious crimes. The suspects, Yuri Berisov and Edward Stavitsky, are suspected of embezzlement and money laundering in Ukraine. They flew into Ben Gurion airport and received Israeli entry visas.

The Israeli private investigator told Galey Tzahal that Israel has become the destination of choice for fugitive oligarchs. If you know the right people, you can get whatever you need there. So the nation founded as a haven for Jews in distress...has become a beacon of criminality to the world's filthy rich."

6079_Smith_W

Funny, no mention in that article that it was Ukraine which put Stavitsky on the wanted list, and that his alleged embezzlement had to do with his position as emergy minister in Victor Yanukovich's government. He fled first to Russia, and then, according to this link, Italy.

http://rapsinews.com/judicial_news/20140804/271848882.html

Borisov was former CEO of a Naftogaz subsidiary, appointed by Victor Yanukovich, and is Russian. His warrant was also taken out after the fall of the old government, though he was conspicuous by his absence in the first round:

http://www.bne.eu/content/story/usual-suspects-surface-huge-corruption-u...

Quote:

Missing from the Prosecutor General's sweep of Kurchenko's gang was any mention of the former management at Ukrgazvydobuvannia such as CEO Yury Borisov, who was appointed to the post immediately following the election victory of former president Viktor Yanukovych in February 2010 and remained in the job until mid-2013.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/wanted-ukrainian-oligarch-granted-visa-to-i...

http://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1438703/bert-vergez-and-yuri-bori...

Some background on gas embezzlement from back in 2010:

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/gas-man-firtash-on-rise-again-in...

NDPP

West's Agri-Giants Snap Up Ukraine  -  by Frederic Mousseau

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-02-280115.html

"At the same time as the United States, Canada and the European Union announced a set of new sanctions against Russia in mid December last year, Ukraine received US$350 Million in US military aid, coming on top of a $1Billion aid package approved by the US Congress in March 2014.

Western government's involvement in the Ukraine conflict signals their confidence in the cabinet appointed by the new government earlier in December 2014. This new government is unique given that three of its most important ministries were granted to foreign-born individuals who received Ukrainian citizenship just hours before their appointment.

The Ministry of Finance went to Natalie Jaresko, a US-born and educated businesswoman who has been working in Ukraine since the mid-1990s, overseeing a private equity fund established by the US government to invest in the country. Jaresko is also the CEO of Horizon Capital, an investment firm that administers various Western investments in the country.*

As unusual as it may seem, this appointment is consistent with what looks like more a takeover of the Ukrainian economy by Western interests. In two reports - 'The Corporate Takeover of Ukrainian Agriculture' and 'Walking on the West's Side': The World Bank and the IMF in the Ukraine Conflict' - the Oakland Institute has documented this takeover, particularly in the agricultural sector..."

NDPP

28-01-2015 Ukrainian Crisis News (and vid)

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2015/01/28012015-ukrainian-crisis-news-...

 

'US Seeks to Swallow Ukraine To Exploit Resources, Bring it into NATO' - Brian Becker ANSWER

http://rt.com/op-edge/227039-ukraine-usa-financial-aid/

"The US, along with West-controlled financial institutions, plans to take Ukraine into its economic, financial and military orbit, Richard Becker from ANSWER Coalition told RT."  

[Hear also the interesting interview with a German MP - audio link at bottom of page]

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:
Based on that rationale I guess the U.S. should have taken the New York draft riots as a sign they should leave their southern brethen in peace to go about their own business.

Is that the message you mean for us to take away from your example, ikosmos?

The initial motive for the NYC riots were that the rich could buy their way out of the draft and the blue collar Irish could not. That's really a non sequitor Smith. You can do better than that.

Maybe talk about the Romulan cloaking device the Russians are using to hide their many "invasions" of Ukraine. lol.

6079_Smith_W

No it's not, actually. The non-sequitur is the assumption that conscription has anything to do with the reasons for the war.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Romulan Cloaking Device. It's there, just remove your tin foil hat for a bit, you'll see ...

NDPP

Donetsk Ministry of Defense Briefing: Ukrainian National Guard Shot 20 soldiers Overnight

http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/01/donetsk-ministry-of-defense-briefing...

"...We would like to bring to the attention of the world community and international organizations, the increasing shelling of our cities by the Ukrops artillery, which leads to more deaths among peaceful residents, including our children.

During overnight clashes, a wounded soldier from the 128th  separate mountain - infantry brigade surrendered and talked during questioning  about the fact of using 'zagradomads' [army police] from the territorial battalion against UKrainian soldiers.

As a result of shooting at Ukrainian soldiers head on from the positions of the National Guard, more than 20 people died on the spot, several dozen more were wounded. The rest of the soldiers of the 128th brigade ran away according to him..."

NDPP

Life Under Fire: Civilians Trapped in E Ukraine Conflict Zone Adjust To War Reality (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/227283-ukraine-conflict-civilians-shelling/

Residents of towns along the frontline in eastern Ukraine have been living in constant fear ever since full-scale fighting resumed there. RT's Roman Kosarev has spoken to those trying to survive in the very heat of the conflict zone.

'This is an awful situation that is currently developing in the area, a senior Red Cross official, Laurent Corbas told RIA Novosti. 'This is against all principles of international humanitarian law."

 

 Backed by Canada:

Ottawa Pledges $200 Million More in Loans To Ukraine (and vid)

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/ottawa-pledges-200m-more-in-loans-to-ukra...

"Since the onset of the crisis, Canada has stood proudly and firmly alongside the people of Ukraine as they courageously struggled for peace and freedom against the Putin regime,' Prime Minister Stephen Harper said in a statement."

 

12-19-2014: Canada Responds To The Situation in Ukraine

http://www.international.gc.ca/international/ukraine.aspx?lang=eng

"Canada is among the strongest international supporters of Ukraine's efforts to restore stability and implement democratic and economic reforms. Ukraine's sovereign territory must be respected and the Ukrainian people  must be free to determine their own future...

Canada has also taken steps to enhance the readiness of NATO..."

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

ikosmos wrote:

Romulan Cloaking Device. It's there, just remove your tin foil hat for a bit, you'll see ...

The only one around here wearing a foil hat is you.

The level of the fighting currently going on in Eastern Ukraine is more about logistics than tactics at this point. The only way the Pro-Russian side could possibly be continuously operating at the level of combat intensity it is currently sustaining (ethicist on sustaining) is if Russia is resupplying them with the material to do so. 

The real tin foil hat stuff is the notion they are capturing or making the supplies to support this level of combat power for this long without outside help.

Slumberjack

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
The only way the Pro-Russian side could possibly be continuously operating at the level of combat intensity it is currently sustaining is if Russia is resupplying them with the material to do so (without outside help). The real tin foil hat stuff is the notion they are capturing or making the supplies to support this level of combat power for this long.

But that 'point of view' doesn't take into account that despite the levels of antiquation, this region remains the most heavily industrialized area of Ukraine, or the fact that defenders almost always have a tactical advantage on the battlefield, which is why any forces conducting offensive operations typically require a favourable ratio in combat power to have any chance of success.  In essence, even outmoded factories can be retooled to produce something else.  And then, before making such a statement you would need to consider that the blackmarket is a way of life for many, where anything is possible if you have the means to pay for it.

NDPP

Money Pump: US To Give $2B To Ukraine By Year End

http://youtu.be/7lR6l5913-I

"The US Treasury Secretary is in Kiev, where he's signed off another Two-Billion-dollar loan to Ukraine..."

 

NATO Allies Must Stay Firm on Ukraine: US Diplomat Victoria Nuland

http://news.yahoo.com/nato-allies-must-stay-firm-ukraine-221836550.html

"...We have to be ready,' Nuland stressed in an address to the Washington-based Brookings Institution think-tank. Nuland told the audience 'Ukraine's front line for freedom is ours as well.

All allies must now contribute as much as they can to the effort and all must keep their defence spending pledge."

So, Canuckleheads, Canada's going to give ANOTHER $200 million of your tax dollars to further fund Oligarchs and Nazis to bomb the children of Donbas and finance NATO's dangerous armed encroachment provocations against Russia. And your 'loyal opposition' is onside with Harper, so there's nobody to 'represent' you but you.

NDPP

Je Suis Donbass! Mariupol Attack - Motive, Method and Madness (and vid)  -  by George Eliason

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Je-Suis-Donbass-Mariupol-by-George-Elia...

"The UN is calling the attack on Mariupol a War Crime. Now that the evidence is pointing to Kiev, will the UN show enough conscience to pursue it?"

 

Ukraine Chief of Staff Admits No Russian Troops in Donetsk

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150129/1017514425.html

"Ukraine's military Chief of Staff Viktor Muzhenko admitted Russian troops have not been taking part in combat operations in the country's east during a news briefing in Kiev, UKraine Channel 5 reports. 'Right now the Ukrainian army is not engaged in combat operations against Russian regular units,' he underscored.

Speaking at the Davos economic forum on January 21, Ukrainian [Billionaire oligarch] President Petro Poroshenko said there were upwards of 9.000 personnel fighting...

Russia denied the charge as a 'primitive fake'. 'There is absolutely no way you can possibly hide huge military formations on a relatively small territory wide open to reporters and OSCE representatives, the General Military Staff said in a statement."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
The level of the fighting currently going on in Eastern Ukraine is more about logistics than tactics at this point. The only way the Pro-Russian side could possibly be continuously operating at the level of combat intensity it is currently sustaining (ethicist on sustaining) is if Russia is resupplying them with the material to do so.

This is called "moving the goalposts".

First, the noisy claim of a "Russian invasion". This claim has been made, what? 25? 35? 50 times? Never substantiated.

Secondly, the shrill claim that Russian regular units, etc. are fighting alongside the Novorossiyan resistance. Never substantiated, and, as noted above, refuted by the Ukrainian authorities!

Quote:
Ukraine’s military Chief of Staff Viktor Muzhenko admitted Russian troops have not been taking part in combat operations in the country’s east during news briefing in Kiev, Ukraine Channel 5 television reports.

Ukrainian regime: No Roooooooooooooskies!

Now we have claims that Russia is supplying the resistance with material, etc. But this has never been disputed. Yes, there is black market trade - to both sides, by the way, such traders could care less and actually like to sell to both sides - but the Russian supply is so well known there is even a word for it. It is called Voentorg. Look it up. It has been talked about for months now.

It's pretty clear that some babblers think that the people of the Donbass should not be allowed to defend themselves from the ethnic cleansing of the Kiev junta. Of course, if we were talking about Kosovo, now one of the largest NATO military bases in Europe, then it would be a different matter.

Bec, why don't you just provide links to the US State Department? Might as well get your views from the horse's mouth.

NDPP
ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Just to repeat because it's an important point.

Quote:
So there may well be Russian troops and equipment on the ground in Ukraine — though so far no proof exists and the Russians deny it. But we know very well that there are US troops and heavy military equipment on the ground in Ukraine because the US openly admits it! So Russia has no business claiming interest in unrest on its doorstep, but the US has every right to become militarily involved in a conflict which has nothing to do with us nearly 5,000 miles away? Interventionist illogic.

Global Research.ca - American troops in Ukraine? You bet!

 

"So Russia has no business claiming interest in unrest on its doorstep, but the US has every right to become militarily involved in a conflict which has nothing to do with us nearly 5,000 miles away?"

Slumberjack

Quote:
"So Russia has no business claiming interest in unrest on its doorstep, but the US has every right to become militarily involved in a conflict which has nothing to do with us nearly 5,000 miles away?"

Yes, that seems to be the golden rule to be understood and practiced when taking Bec's and Smith's bromides into consideration.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

I'm moving anything, I'm simply stating a military reality... the Pro-Russians could not sustan the combat power they are currntly at without outside logistical help.

(good points SJ but I disagree, for the amount of munitons being expended in this fighting you'd need a major supply system to support it) I stand by what I posted: The Russians are most likely the source of that logistical support.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Slumberjack wrote:

Quote:
"So Russia has no business claiming interest in unrest on its doorstep, but the US has every right to become militarily involved in a conflict which has nothing to do with us nearly 5,000 miles away?"

Yes, that seems to be the golden rule to be understood and practiced when taking Bec's and Smith's bromides into consideration.

Oh bullshit there is no US troops or equipment fighting in Eastern Ukraine. The fact that you ignore proof of Russian involvement in supporting the pro-Russians in Ukraine is on you not us so just stop it really.

Tow the RT line all you want here just leave me out of it.

Slumberjack

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
(good points SJ but I disagree, for the amount of munitons being expended in this fighting you'd need a major supply system to support it) I stand by what I posted: The Russians are most likely the source of that logistical support.

Saying the most likely sources of military supply are columns of trucks straight out of the Kremlin only regurgitates propaganda if you have no proof, especially when other factors could just as well account for the munitions, including domestic sources within the disputed regions themselves.  The entire argument is a moot point anyway.  You don't invest 5 billion dollars in US style 'democratization,' complain with a straight face about Russian interference in the sovereign affairs Ukraine, and expect that your arguments about who is doing what should be taken seriously.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Voentorg. [See expecially Colonel Cassad blog and the blog of the Vinyard of the Saker]

Look it up and you will discover that those who support the right of the Donbass to defend itself have never disputed the support they've been getting from Russia.

Mind you, the Ukrainian military, [especially neo-Nazi and private armies like Azov Battallion] so skilled at bullying, torturing and murdering unarmed civilians, are not so good when faced with determined resistance and, quite often, have fled, with their fascist tails between their legs, leaving all sorts of equipment behind. This equipment has been very helpful to the resistance.

Next.

NDPP

EU Foreign Ministers Extend Sanctions Against Russian Officials, East Ukraine Rebels (audio)

http://rt.com/business/227555-eu-russia-extend-sanctions/

"EU foreign ministers have decided to extend targeted sanctions against Russian officials and the militants in eastern Ukraine until September, according to Federica Mogherini, the European Union High Representative for Foreign Affairs. The council however has refrained from imposing broader economic measures for now.

Greek foreign minister Nikos Kotzias said that Greece insisted on removing a passage which would have imposed new sanctions on Russia from the draft proposals at the ministers meeeting. It also insisted that the final communique does not put direct blame for the Ukraine conflict on Russia.

Journalist Neil Clark told RT that the lack of harsh, new measures today reveals a division within the EU ranks. 'What we've seen tonight is the evidence of a real split. We haven't had the measures that some people wanted.."

NDPP

Kiev Used Barrier Squads to Prevent Troops from Retreating - E Ukraine Militia

http://rt.com/news/226831-Ukraine-barrier-troops-donetsk/

"The Ukrainian military employed barrier troops who fired at their fellow servicemen in order to prevent their retreat during a night battle in the country's southeast, the Defense Ministry of the Donetsk People's Republic  (DPR) said.

'Ukrainian troops are demoralized, which is proven by an unprecedented incident that occureed last night,' DPR Defense Ministry spokesman Eduard Basurin said.

An injured Ukrainian soldier who surrendered to the militias said during questioning that 'anti-retreat units from territorial defense battalions were used against Ukrainian troops,' Basurin said..."

NDPP

IMF To Ukraine: End War Or Face Aid Cut-Off

http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/01/28/2890

"Christine Lagarde, the head of the IMF, gave an interview to the French newspaper Le Monde on 24th January 2015, that has attacted little attenion but which threatens to knock the final nail into Ukraine's debt coffin. For the first time since the start of the conflict, Lagarde explicitly linked more financial aid to Ukraine with the end of the war.

Lagarde's comments show the IMF has finally lost patience. Her words are a warning that unless Ukraine's leaders stop the war, IMF lending will stop..."

NDPP

EU FMs Agree By Consensus To Extend Russia's Sanctions For Six Months

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2015/01/29/eu-fms-agree-by-consensus-to...

"Greek diplomacy managed in cooperation with other countries seeking a diplomatic solution for the Ukraine, to overthrow the Cold War climate that was favoring new sanctions on Russia, a climate that had grown in the last days.

Greece's governing party noted that there will be no extension of economic sanctions 'despite the initial message of various circles' and that 'there was no explicit reference to add names of Russian citizens on lists for individual sanctions..."

6079_Smith_W

Slumberjack wrote:

You don't invest 5 billion dollars in US style 'democratization,'

Are you still tossing that number around as if it means anything? It is what has been spent since the early 90s, and it contributed to Yanukovich being elected as much as Poroshenko. So what are you saying?

Slumberjack

6079_Smith_W wrote:
Are you still tossing that number around as if it means anything? It is what has been spent since the early 90s, and it contributed to Yanukovich being elected as much as Poroshenko. So what are you saying?

That's your supportive interpretation of the sentence where the five billion dollar remark was first introducted to us.  The statement doesn't in fact say when the sluice gates were opened, only that since 1991 the US has supported the building of 'democratic' instututions.  It doesn't say how much per year, or if anything was contributed during the 90's.  You're engaged in disinformation to suggest that the five billion dollars was racked up over time since 1991.  It incorrectly suggests, and without evidence, that it took almost 25 years of spreading Uncle Peg Leg's largesse throughout Ukrainian society in order to rack up that amount as if there were annual installments since then, and not the result of a concerted effort at regime change in more recent years as it's been contended.  I won't ask the same question of you, as I already know what you are trying to say.

6079_Smith_W

 

No, it is me asking what it is supposed to mean, since those who talk about Yanukovich being the elected president are basing their claim on that same system. Can't have it both ways.

And if we are talking about what is and isn't said, she certainly didn't say this:

http://www.stopfake.org/en/324/

This article does have some spin about U.S. secrecy, but when it gets down to the nuts and bolts, what did some of that 5 billion go to?

Quote:

A Huffington Post review of disclosures covering U.S. payments to Ukrainian government and NGOs found that large portions of aid have funded programs against the proliferation of nuclear materials, small arms, narcotics trafficking, human trafficking and money laundering. U.S. aid also has funded information about HIV/AIDS and family planning, and has helped clean and contain the nuclear disaster site at Chernobyl.

USAID contributed $200 million to the final decommissioning of the Chernobyl nuclear plant. The Department of Energy spent more than $50 million in 2010 in support of closing and containing the nuclear disaster site, according to ForeignAssistance.gov.

U.S. foreign aid also has funded groups promoting civic engagement, the rule of law, investigative journalism and oversight of elections. The Obama administration has proposed that some future aid to the new Ukrainian government will fall under this category.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/07/us-foreign-aid-ukraine_n_491468...

Doesn't seem from that that they handed over a $5 billion cheque to Maidan 18 months ago to buy plackards and brickbats and pay protesters. Sounds pretty convincing when you read it on the internet though:

Slumberjack

More BS from our resident BS faction.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Ukrainian forces face drones, electronic jamming: US  

Quote:
Ukrainian troops are struggling to counter artillery fire and electronic jamming by pro-Russian militants, who are flying drones to target the Kiev government forces, a top US general said Thursday.

Also...

Quote:
Surveillance drones supplied by Russia are enabling the separatists to pinpoint the location of Ukrainian troops with deadly accuracy.

"The rebels have Russian-provided UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) that are giving the rebels the detection capability and the ability to target Ukrainian forces," the general said, speaking from an American base at Wiesbaden.

"So they've suffered heavy casualties from heavy artillery and from rockets."

The casualties are stretching the limits of the government army's medical services, which provides quality care but lacks the capacity to keep up with the stream of wounded troops, according to Hodges.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

From a fellow BSer himself no less... 8-P

NDPP

Toronto Star is Running With Extreme Right in Ukraine

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/30/toronto-star-is-running-with-the-...

"The Toronto Star, Canada's largest circulation daily newspaper is running with the neo-conservative [NAZI!] government in Ukraine and the extreme right-wing parties and paramilitary militias with which the government is allied..."

 

HERE'S JUST THE LATEST BLOODY BUTCHERY AND MASS MURDER CANADA, THE STAR, UCC, PEGGY NASH NDP, HER NAZI FRIENDS IN RIGHT SECTOR, AND YOUR + $400 M TAX DOLLARS ARE SUPPORTING:

Ukraine Shells Humanitarian Aid Center in Donetsk

GRAPHIC: Ukraine Nazis Shell Humanitarian Aid Center in Donetsk

http://youtu.be/M0l1tIlVT-Y

 

DO SOMETHING!

Olivia Ward, Foreign Affairs, The Star: oward@thestar.ca

Peggy Nash NDP: Peggy.Nash@parl.gc.ca

 

NDPP

Belarus Says Minsk Talks on Ukraine Crisis 'Cancelled'

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/01/30/395408/Minsk-talks-on-Ukraine-c...

"Belarus says the awaited Minsk peace negotiations between representatives of Ukraine's government and pro-Russian forces have been cancelled after Ukrainian officials refused to show up. 'The Foreign Ministry of Belarus confirmed today that Kiev (representatives) won't come. The talks have been cancelled,' pro Russians' representative, Denis Pushilin, told reporters in the Belarusian capital on Friday.

The development comes a day after Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko urged all sides involved in the Ukraine conflict to 'do their utmost to stop that war.' Meanwhile, Russia's envoy to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) has called upon Washington and its European allies to stop supporting the 'party of war' in Ukraine, warning against a looming 'catastrophe'.

 

And Hell Was Following Them...

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2015/01/and-hell-was-following-them.html

"I don't know who exactly (Turchinov? Poroshenko?) commanded the Ukrainian army to disrupt the truce. But I am sure that this decision was taken in Washington.

It is not an accident that this suicidal provocation was preceded by the visit of G SOROS to Kiev. This elderly 'philanthropist' who together with the US Department of State, sponsored all post-Soviet fascist regimes (from Saakashvili's Georgia to Poroshenko's Ukraine) was most qualified to assess the financial state of the regime in Kiev and to decide whether it still makes sense to continue prolongation of the agony by monetary injections.

His public statement, reprinted by media - on January 14, left no doubt - the patient is dead, the corpse is stiff, its resucitation is meaningless..."

NDPP

CrossTalk: Nuland's Kiev (and vid)

http://rt.com/shows/crosstalk/227731-ukraine-mobilization-nuland-statement/

"Things are going from bad to worse in Kiev controlled Ukraine. The economy is cratering, calls for more troop mobilization end in humiliation and military defeats in the field. What can we expect from Victoria Nuland's Kiev? CrossTalking with Domitilla Sagramoso, Alexander Nekrassov and Charles Bausman

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Ukraine battle rages for key town of Debaltseve

Quote:
  Ukrainian troops and pro-Russian rebels are exchanging heavy tank and artillery fire in and around Debaltseve, a strategic town in eastern Ukraine.

There are reports - not independently confirmed - that the rebels have seized the nearby town of Vuhlehirsk.

Map:

 

Ukraine civilians stranded as shells pound Debaltseve

Quote:
 They are shooting all day long, from Grads [rockets] or whatever they have," says Alexander Verushkin, a wounded conscript soldier who describes fierce
clashes over several days.

Ukrainian troops are firing back, though Alexander has seen signs that they are struggling. "Give us the kit and we can win," he insists. But where he was deployed, all but one vehicle was off the road. 

"We need spare parts. Everything's broken," he adds, lowering his head in pain from the shrapnel lodged in his arm.

The pro-Russian rebels don't appear to suffer the same supply problems.

No supply problums on the pro-Russian side? Say it isn't so... 8-?

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Donetsk People's Republic Has 'Full Support of Texas', Says Pro-Russian Rebel 

Quote:
The self-proclaimed foreign minister for the pro-Russian separatist group the Donetsk People's Republic (DNR), which is currently battling Kiev's forces in eastern Ukraine, has announced plans to host a "summit of unrecognized states" such as Flanders, the Basque country and Texas in a video initially broadcast on the local pro-separatist channel Oplot TV earlier this week.

The DNR representative, Alexander Koffman, said he plans to host the summit in either February or March, inviting representatives from regions with separatist leanings around Europe such as Spain's Basque region, Belgium's Flanders region, Italy's Venetian region and even the American state of Texas hoping to create a "League of New States". 

Well shucks, this changes everything.

 

NDPP

Ukraine: Just Another Nazi Day...

 

US Announces Support of Neo Nazis

http://original.antiwar.com/Chris_Ernesto/2015/01/28/us-announces-suppor...

Pentagon officials confirm last week that US troops will deploy to Ukraine in the Spring to help build the Ukrainian National Guard. In addition to sending US troops, Washington has already sent heavy military equipment and has earmarked $19 Million for Ukrainian forces.

In its announcement, the Pentagon failed to mention that the Ukrainian National Guard includes the AZOV BATTALION, a pronounced neo-Nazi group.

'To become an Azov fighter, you have to be a proper white man,' one Azov Battalion fighter told Sky News' Russ Kemp..."

 

Canadian 'humanitarian' Aid:  Keeping Nazi 'Punishers' Nice and Warm. Heil Harper!

http://maidantranslations.com/2014/12/12/wings-phoenix-the-first-shipmen...

"The entire shipment has been received, accounted for, distributed and delivered. The 93d Brigade received most of it, SOME THINGS WENT TO AIDAR, some things went to the territorial defense battalions.

The Canadian representative responsible for the shipment LENNA KOSZARNY* wrote in her report..."

UCC: Canadians Assist in Delivery of Military Gear For Ukraine (and vid)

http://www.ucc.ca/2015/01/09/canadians-assist-in-delivery-of-military-ge...

* Koszarny recently replaced Ukraine's new Finance Minister Natalie Jaresko, as CEO of Horizon Capital,  a USAID vulture-capital fund designed to loot and pillage Ukraine. Married to a US national, she is also the Advisory Chair of UCC, Canada's Ukrainian AIPAC, in Kiev.

Just Another Nazi Torchlight Parade (and vid)

http://rt.com/in-motion/227779-ukraine-farright-torch-march/

Far right sector and volunteer 'Azov' Battalion, part of Ukraine's National Guard march through Odessa

 

Amnesty International: Ukraine: Abuses And War-Crimes By the Aidar Volunteer Battalion

http://www.refworld.org/docid/5411a2b74.html

 

Still No Nazis in Ukraine, That Is All Kremlin Propaganda...

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2015/01/still-no-nazis-in-ukraine-that-...

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

The following map shows how truly successful anti-Russian sanctions have been in isolating that country from the "World Community" as a result of Russia's role in the Ukrainian civil war. I mean, the Russian "invasion" of Ukraine. OK, maybe not an "invasion", but, you know, they're doing like bad things and all! Really! I saw it on CBC. It must be true. blah blah ...

 

snork! snork!

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Patrick Armstrong, retired Canadian Diplomat wrote:
DECLARATION OF WAR? The Ukrainian parliament just declared that Russia was an “aggressor state”. Is that a declaration of war? Can Russia now legally go in and stop the killing?

That is no joke. A declaration of war by the Kiev regime, suicidal or not, has consequences.

The same page has the Ukrainian Rada (rump Parliament, purged of most dissidents) calling the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics as "terrorist organizations".

Well, that explains the Ukrainian junta bombing schools, hospitals, day care centers, seniors homes and residential areas. Clearly, even the children are terrorists and mustn't be allowed to go to "terrorist schools" where they can learn their "terrorist ABCs". It certainly explains President Poroshenko's remarks about "defeating the terrorists" whose children, he gloated publicly,  will be in basements and bomb shelters while the Ukrainian children will go to school and learn about their national heroes, like, for example, Stepan Bandura ...

The wheels are coming off this monstrous Yanqui-sponsored, puppet regime.

Oh, but wait! Check out the "cyborg" Ukrainian troops! Well, well. This changes everything!

The Armed Forces of the Donetsk Republic should give up now! Russia should plead forgiveness!

But, but, but, ... wasn't that a Nazi salute?

Never mind! What are you? Some Roosky colorado cockroach?

NDPP

BREAKING: Debaltsevo Fully Surrounded: Update by'Fomich', Artillery Chief of Staff, 2nd LPR Army Brigade

http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/01/breaking-debaltsevo-fully-surrounded...

"The militia has fully encircled Debaltsevo. Road to Artemovsk is under Novorossia control. It is impossible to travel on it, we are about to put up roadblocks. Ukrainian forces will attempt to break out but they have relatively few forces left, and have problems with ammunition and food. The annihilation of the Debaltsevo pocket will occur in the near future."

Potential Conscripts Evade Draft, Flee Country Amid Escalation in E Ukraine (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/228131-draft-evasion-ukraine-military/

"The most recent military draft in Ukraine has been described as 'problematic' by Kiev's army spokesman. The recruitment effort, coming amid ever more intense fighting in the country's east, sees a lack of enthusiasm on the part of potential soldiers.

A little more than 7,500 Ukrainians are already facing criminal charges for evading military service, the country's Defense Ministry announced on Saturday. Mass reluctance to serve has not gone unnoticed by international monitors. 'A considerable number of people are trying to avoid mobilization by various means,' the January 27 OSCE report reads.

'No one wants to send their children to war,' a Ukrainian political analyst Vladimir Kornilov told Sputnik Radio. 'Kiev now recruits the young ones, and the young ones die. I think these sporadic protests, which now happen in villages and towns will eventually grow in size and get more organized.'

Some 8,000 Ukrainian troops are currently believed to be surrounded near the village of Debaltsevo in Donbass as militia units cut off the only road linking the pocket to Kiev-held territory..."

'Group Thinking' the World Into A New War  -  by Robert Parry

http://consortiumnews.com/2015/01/30/group-thinking-the-world-into-a-new...

"The armchair warriors of official Washington are eager for a new war, this time with Russia over Ukraine, and they are operating from the same sort of mindless 'group think' and hostility to dissent that proved so disastrous in Iraq, reports Robert Parry..."

josh
NDPP

DPR Dept Corps Commander Eduard Basurin: Evening SITREP 31/01/15

http://youtu.be/YxofObCnmGo

"One more time, we appeal to the Ukrainian military encircled in Debaltsevo, to cease their resistance, surrender and lay down their arms. We guarantee safety and return to your families..."

 

Uglegorsk Assault Aftermath

http://youtu.be/Zd8x5n6H9Hs

Pages

Topic locked