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josh

The region supported Brexit.  And voted for the party that has embraced Brexit.  But it's Jeremy Corbyn's fault for the loss?

NorthReport

Scotland: Normal nation, neurotic neighbour

The Union has been in decline for decades. The root problem is not turbulent Scots, it is a very English failure to develop a healthy nationalism south of the border

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/scotland-normal-nation-neuro...

NorthReport

 

Foreword: May 2017—From British exit to Britain's break-up

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/foreword-may-2017-from-briti...

NorthReport

The rich and powerful protect the rich and powerful

UK attorney general in bid to block case against Tony Blair over Iraq war

Jeremy Wright QC argues crime of aggression does not exist in English law, even though his predecessor reportedly claimed otherwise 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/16/uk-attorney-general-in-...

NorthReport

One can only hope that backbench Tories will now derail the Brexit process

Theresa May was warned not to call snap general election by campaign guru Lynton Crosby

'There is clearly a lot of risk involved with holding an early election - and there is a real need to nail down the 'why' for doing so now,' memo said

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-warned-lynton-...

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:

One can only hope that backbench Tories will now derail the Brexit process

Theresa May was warned not to call snap general election by campaign guru Lynton Crosby

'There is clearly a lot of risk involved with holding an early election - and there is a real need to nail down the 'why' for doing so now,' memo said

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-warned-lynton-...

This is not the first time that there would be found to be a difference between a level of support showing in polls when no election is expected and a desire to have an election to vote in that direction.

It would not be the first time to see a politician misread such polls. For a great Canadian example, just ask former Ontario Premier David Peterson.

NorthReport

Brexit cold feet!

Theresa May to make mystery 'important intervention' that could delay Brexit talks, European Parliament negotiator reveals

Guy Verhofstadt claims an intervention by the Prime Minister could delay next round of Brexit negotiations

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-delay-theresa...

NorthReport

The lies and deceit of our political masters, eh!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/06/the-truth-about-wages-and-...

NorthReport

People's March for Europe: Thousands hit streets of London to demand Brexit be reversed

'I'm not angry with the poor sods who voted Leave. They were lied to, and those poor sods are going to get poorer'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-peoples-march-for-e...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

If a couple divorces, then reconsiders, they need to get married again.  If only one of the two reconsiders then that can be a bit more difficult.

I don't think that the UK really has the option to say "whoops, bit of a mistake, please nevermind Article 50!!".  If the UK wants back in, wouldn't the proper next step be to apply for EU membership?  I believe that's actually Article 49.  But people still seem to believe that all the UK has to do at this point is ask for a re-do, and I don't think it's quite that simple.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Considering how incompetent Teresa May and her government are, why can't they just say, "Brexit? We can't do it. Sorry, but governments break the will of the elected majority frequently and this is one of these times. Sorry, but we don't have the brains to negotiate in Britain's best interest..."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
why can't they just say, "Brexit? We can't do it. Sorry, but governments break the will of the elected majority frequently and this is one of these times. Sorry, but we don't have the brains to negotiate in Britain's best interest..."

Because they've already gone ahead with Article 50 -- the equivalent of signing the divorce papers.

You're right that they could have ignored the results and chosen not to invoke Article 50 (at which point it would be a solely domestic concern for the UK), but once the Article is invoked, it's done.

If, at this point, they're unable to negotiate in the best interest of the UK then they've still signed the divorce papers but perhaps cannot hope to divide the matrimonial properties to their satisfaction.  The divorce is still final, but the EU keeps the boat, the summer house and the pensions, and the UK keeps their comic book collection, their mother's jewelry and the dog.   That's where they're at right now.  Not "shall we leave?" but "what shall the terms be?"

Anyhoo, I'm not professing to be a European lawyer, so if I'm wrong, and all the UK has to do is say "my bad", then anyone is free to say so (hopefully including a plausible link to whatever loophole there is to Article 50 that nobody seems aware of).

NorthReport
NorthReport

Knife crime is rising – and we're closing down the very places that could stop it

For some boys, picking up a knife before leaving the house is like putting on shoes. Cuts to community centres like mine could prevent us getting to the root of the problem

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/26/knife-crime-commun...

josh

It is the narrative of social democracy, of economic demand management, of public spending and public goods, of nationalised projects in the name of the society at large, of education from cradle to grave.

It’s a narrative that challenges the leitmotif of the past 40 years: the narrative of TINA – there is no alternative. That’s no alternative to the neoliberal approach to a small state and a free market.

https://www.juancole.com/2017/09/nationalize-utilities-neoliberalism.html

NorthReport

 

Corbyn may well be running against Boris Johnson in the next election

 

Jeremy Corbyn set out to be a political failure. Now he stands on the brink of success

In a move that no one saw coming, Jeremy Corbyn has used his cardigan charisma to win over the country 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-momentum-labour-confer...

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

"Jeremy Corbyn SET OUT to be a political failure"?

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

"Jeremy Corbyn SET OUT to be a political failure"?

It's a quote from the article. The author is a right-wing doofus, and a very bad writer. Some of his sentences are quite difficult to parse. I wouldn't take anything this guy says seriously.

NorthReport
Rev Pesky

Are these the last days of Theresa May?

Theresa May sought to relaunch her premiership on Wednesday by offering voters the “British dream” but the most personal speech of her premiership was overshadowed by a prankster handing her a P45, an incessant cough, and problems with the backdrop.

...With the Conservatives already weakened by the loss of a parliamentary majority in June’s snap election, the accident-prone presentation made some in the party question how long the prime minister could carry on. One MP said colleagues were asking: “Is it going to improve over the next 18 months?” and added: “It’s hard to see how it can.”

...Later, the set behind the prime minister, which read, “Building a country that works for everyone”, began to fall apart, with an F and E dropping to the ground while she was still speaking.

...May concluded her speech by demanding an end to party infighting after a week dominated by stories of division and questions of a leadership challenge following interventions on Brexit by Boris Johnson. She said it was ordinary working people that the party should be thinking of – “not worrying about our job security, but theirs”.

"Ordinary working people", a phrase made famous by our very own Ed Broadbent. Goes to show that 'ordinary working people' can mean anything to anyone.

Anyhow, I suspect Theresa May is not long for the Conservative leadership. From the last election results, to the current open scorn of Boris "Dimwit" Johnson, I think we can start counting the days.

NorthReport

It appears that May's leadership is on the rocks and it is just a matter of time before she is ousted Will she leave voluntarily before she is pushed out the door?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/conservative-party-conference-tory-m...

NorthReport

Looks like Rudd is the odds on favourite to replace May

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NorthReport wrote:
It appears that May's leadership is on the rocks and it is just a matter of time before she is ousted Will she leave voluntarily before she is pushed out the door?
">http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/conservative-party-conference-tory-m...

Is it possible she'd call another election just to stop her own party from dumping her?

Rev Pesky

From Ken Burch:

Is it possible she'd call another election just to stop her own party from dumping her?

I doubt it very much. Call an election now, and the Conservatives would be sent to the locker room, no ifs, ands, or buts. So she would lose the leadership in any case.

No, I think, at least for the present, she'll try and tough it out. Only problem is she's going to have to fire Johnson and Gove out of their cabinet seats, and that ain't going to work either.

On the other hand, the Conservative party is still split over leaving the EU, and that split won't heal with a new leader. Basically, they're up the creek. Who knows how it will end?

JKR

Ken Burch wrote:

Is it possible she'd call another election just to stop her own party from dumping her?

LOL. I think there's a greater possibility of her joining Labour.

NDPP

The Rising of Britain's 'New Politics'  -   by John Pilger

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/10/06/the-rising-of-britains-new-polit...

"Since 1945, like the Tories, British Labour has been an imperial party, obsequious to Washington..."

NorthReport

EU tells Britain it will make no concessions to break 'disturbing deadlock' in Brexit negotiations

No serious negotiations took place on the question of the divorce bill this week 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-michel-barnier-dist...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
EU tells Britain it will make no concessions to break 'disturbing deadlock' in Brexit negotiations

It's almost as though the UK doesn't have the whip hand.

NorthReport

Labour says it will join Conservatives to block 'no deal' Brexit

Shadow chancellor speaks as cross-party MPs’ group reveals plans to give parliament ability to veto ‘bad deal’ or ‘no deal’

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/15/labour-says-it-will-joi...

NorthReport

Government faces humiliation as DUP poised to side with Labour over women's pensions

Exclusive: ‘We stand by our manifesto commitment that this issue needs to be dealt with,' DUP tells Prime Minister

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-tories-dup-la...

Sean in Ottawa

The idea that Boris could take over is past. He no longer is what the Conservatives would need or want. But May might not make it to the election. Would be someone else.

NDPP

Merkel 'Furious' About Brexit Negotiations Leak, Fears UK Govt Will Collapse - Report

https://on.rt.com/8qio

"While Merkel is reportedly angry with the Tories over their Brexit tactics, she is concerned that the leaks could topple May and that her replacement could throw the talks into further disarray..."

NDPP

Priti Patel Resigns - Israel Lobby Mourns the Loss Of A Valuable British Asset

https://t.co/C92KsLIRG5

"The Zionist lobby in Britain is vicious."

NorthReport

Why the economic forecasts for Britain are so apocalyptic – and how much Brexit is to blame

Has the UK’s economic outlook really suddenly become very much worse – or has this reckoning been coming for some time? And is there any way out of this mess? 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/uk-econ...

NDPP

Blood Sport: The Radical Extremism of the Transatlantic Elite

http://www.chris-floyd.com/home/articles/blood-sport-the-radical-extremi...

'From The Guardian...'

"The enrichment of the rich and the empowerment of the powerful is the doctrine of these transatlanic extremists; and they don't care how many people have to die, how badly society degenerates, how low the quality of life becomes, as long as Mammon's will be done. They are vile and wretched creatures, eaters of their own souls, hollowers of their own humanity. We are living in an age when all the masks are coming off and our rulers are showing their true faces at last: rapacious, ravening, cruel and implacable."

NorthReport
NDPP

No Evidence Russia Ever Meddled In UK Democracy - Boris Johnson

https://on.rt.com/8r71

BoJo: "No, I haven't seen any (evidence), not a sausage...As far as I know they have played no role." 

 

The Charge of the Light Brigade: Britain Goes Full Circle on Russophobia

https://on.rt.com/8szo

"Then as now, it was all a load of hogwash."

NorthReport

As if Johnson, a Brexit supporter, is going to say otherwise. 

At least in the UK you are not killed for voicing a different point of view like you are in Russia.

Labour accuses Chancellor of failing to 'get a grip' on tax avoidance by letting major firms keep £700m

Analysis of last week's Budget fine print finds ‘Google Tax’ will net millions less for the Treasury than initially forecast

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-philip-hammond-chan...

NorthReport

Brexit Referendum ‘May Need to Be Redone’

Multiple sources with links to UK intelligence report that Russian corruption of the Brexit vote is far worse than previously thought. The referendum on remaining part of the EU received so much illegal foreign money and influence from Russia, these sources say, that UK intelligence is minded to recommend to Theresa May’s government that the Brexit vote be redone, as it is not thought that the vote was ‘free and fair’. This term is often used in Great Britain to describe a legitimate election process.

https://patribotics.blog/2017/11/24/exclusive-brexit-referendum-may-need...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Multiple sources with links to UK intelligence report that Russian corruption of the Brexit vote is far worse than previously thought.

A fascinating conundrum for progressives (there or here) who regret the Brexit "Yes".  They can have a do-over, but only logically after agreeing that the Russians had another "mouse hole" in the UK.   Have at it.

Rev Pesky

The government of the UK doesn't really have to do anything. The referendum was not binding. All they have to do is ignore the results, perhaps with a statement about such a tiny majority asking for major changes in the makeup of the country. I think at this point they would probably have a majority onside.

Sean in Ottawa

Rev Pesky wrote:

The government of the UK doesn't really have to do anything. The referendum was not binding. All they have to do is ignore the results, perhaps with a statement about such a tiny majority asking for major changes in the makeup of the country. I think at this point they would probably have a majority onside.

You are right technically, but I think overturning a vote requires another to be seen as legitimate. The proof of the opinion of the people would be a referendum.

The problem is that if they do not have a plan to make the next vote fair, how do they go into it?

The wider problem here is widespread and one of technology and communications. The focus on Russia is distracting from the need to make elections about the people rather than propaganda and money. Over a generation, the problem has grown to the point that elections cannot claim any certainty of legitimacy.

The US (except for the beneficiaries) are upset that this was Russia. They did not mind the decline and stealing of the legitimacy of their elections by domestic forces. They did not mind their government doing it to others. They had a fit when the Russians apparently schooled them in their own game. In the US, the problem is they found themselves without the power to counter the efforts of another country in their own electoral process. This did not come from a US desire to have legitimate, fair elections.

The UK is facing the reality that they no longer know how to hold an election that will stand up to scrutiny. I am not sure that Canada can either. This is a crisis of technology and social media where hacking social networks has this impact. They are designed to be organic and largely equal for voices. They were not designed to be taken over by large entities. The concept of greater democracy and accountability through organic social networks is being exposes as a lie.

Large organizations and countries also have a global hacking problem with computer systems and networks as well. These are similar in many ways.

I don't have an answer to the problem but one will not come from a focus on an individual perpetrator but rather on the problem.

I think the US would be more willing to weaponize this to their own ends than change it but maybe I am being pessimistic?

NDPP

No Evidence of Russian Interference in Brexit, Theresa May Admits in Parliament (and vid)

https://on.rt.com/8sbl

"...If they care to look at the speech I gave on Monday, they will see that the examples I gave of Russian interference were not in the United Kingdom." - Theresa May

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
The referendum was not binding. All they have to do is ignore the results, perhaps with a statement about such a tiny majority asking for major changes in the makeup of the country.

Well, and also maybe with a lengthy discussion of why they didn't do that on day one.  Seems a bit late for that now.

Quote:
No Evidence of Russian Interference in Brexit, Theresa May Admits in Parliament

Okey dokey!  No need for further action here, and no need for a do-over either.

cco

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

The US (except for the beneficiaries) are upset that this was Russia. They did not mind the decline and stealing of the legitimacy of their elections by domestic forces. They did not mind their government doing it to others. They had a fit when the Russians apparently schooled them in their own game. In the US, the problem is they found themselves without the power to counter the efforts of another country in their own electoral process. This did not come from a US desire to have legitimate, fair elections.

The UK is facing the reality that they no longer know how to hold an election that will stand up to scrutiny. I am not sure that Canada can either. This is a crisis of technology and social media where hacking social networks has this impact. They are designed to be organic and largely equal for voices. They were not designed to be taken over by large entities. The concept of greater democracy and accountability through organic social networks is being exposes as a lie.

I find something curiously Orwellian in this framing of electoral "legitimacy".

No, bear with me here. My standard for a legitimate election is based on (what I consider to be) fairly objective factors relating to the ability to cast ballots and fair counting of the ballots that are cast, with secondary concern being given to structural factors like the electoral system. Is every adult citizen who wants to able to cast a secret ballot? Are those who are ineligible to vote (for reasons like non-citizenship, being 6 years old, or being dead) prohibited from voting? Are those who vote threatened with being personally identified and retaliated against, whether within the legal system or by vigilante groups that are effectively permitted to operate?

Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, and Jacques Parizeau appear to share a different idea of what constitutes a legitimate election. Are the people who voted people I personally feel shouldn't have been allowed to vote, though they're legally permitted to? Most relevant in this discussion: did they vote (or refrain from voting) after hearing lies and believing them, or after hearing the truth, but from a source I think they shouldn't have had access to?

I hope it's obvious why the last one concerns me, but I'll try to clarify it further. The allegations of Russian "hacking" of elections aren't, as they sound, allegations of Russians hijacking voting machines and submitting false results. They're allegations of Russia publishing legitimate but embarrassing private emails to shift voter perception, or of Russia publishing outright fabrications that those naive voters believed, but should have (in the minds of Clinton/Cameron) been prevented from reading.

Personally, I don't believe any politician has a right to determine the information level of the electorate, or that either voters being uninformed of something that'd make them pro-your side or being informed of something (even something false) that'd make them anti-your side makes an election "illegitimate". Once that door's open, it's hard to consider any election legitimate.

JKR

Rev Pesky wrote:

The government of the UK doesn't really have to do anything. The referendum was not binding. All they have to do is ignore the results, perhaps with a statement about such a tiny majority asking for major changes in the makeup of the country. I think at this point they would probably have a majority onside.

But the majority of Conservative voters would not be onside. Those are the voters the Conservative government worries about in order to remain electorally viable. The whole Brexit debacle has been caused by the Conservative Party's partisan and reckless attempt to keep their voters onside.

Rev Pesky

From Sean in Ottawa:

You are right technically, but I think overturning a vote requires another to be seen as legitimate. The proof of the opinion of the people would be a referendum.

There is no vote to overturn. The rederendum was non-binding, and the voters knew that. I suspect the outcome may have been different if the outcome had been binding.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

To Rev Pesky's point that the Brexit vote was not binding, yes that was true in itself. But when the UK Parliament invoked Article 50, they made it binding. I agree that the Brexit margin was too slim for something as significant, however HM Government has to respect the will of the people. 

Now, the Labour leadership have said that they fully support the EU, finally realizing that there are good things about the EU in terms of workers' rights, minimum wages, law courts, food standards, open markets, etc. 

From my reading of it, Brexit will likely come unravelled over the Irish border. The Ulster DUP want to keep their border open with Eire and keep to the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. This means that Britain has to essentially stay in the EU. Britain is not going to jettison Ulster for the cause of Brexit. If the hard right Brexiteers in the Tory Party want to cut Ulster adrift, Theresa May will lose the DUP support, and the Tories will fall in Parliament, quite possibly leading to a Labour government.

Word has it that support for Remain has to get up to 60% before they will make a U-turn on its own merits. It is not there yet.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
I suspect the outcome may have been different if the outcome had been binding.

Perhaps.  But are you suggesting that those potential voters who stayed home and watched the footie instead of voting would have voted if they'd known that the government would actually do what the vote told them to?  If so, I have to wonder what they thought the government was supposed to do when more people said "leave" than "stay"?  Assuming the government would ignore a "leave" majority was a bit of an inexplicable gamble.

Rev Pesky

From Mr. Magoo:

...are you suggesting that those potential voters who stayed home and watched the footie instead of voting would have voted if they'd known that the government would actually do what the vote told them to?

Not necessarily. The people who voted may have voted differently than they did. I think there was a bit of a sense of hitting out at the government just because it felt good to do so. Perhaps in a similar way that people will vote in a by-election that won't bring down the government, but will 'send a message'. As close as the vote was, it wouldn't have taken much of a swing to change the outcome. 

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