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NorthReport

Good choice of words in the title!

Brexit Dumpster Fire has killed every significant EU Sucessionist Movement 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/news.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/pajnzy/the-brexit-dumpster-fire-has-killed-every-major-eu-secessionist-movement

NorthReport

There will never ever be a no deal Brexit aa that is just a negotiating tactic by the right

Remain need to seriously up their game as they have abundant ammunition to kill this Brexit stupidity once and for all

There is a simple litmus test to tell if a governmental proposal is good for the masses If the right-ringers want something you just have to know by now that the masses are going to get take to the cleaners  so run in the opposite direction as hard as you can 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/wireStory/budget-watchdog-deal-brexit-spur-uk-recession-64411691

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

But first comes actually winning an election. The strong sense is that McDonnell, along with much of the shadow cabinet, is infuriated by everything that gets in the way of that. Imagine the despair of losing an election to Boris Johnson and facing another five years of social destruction. Day after day it gets clearer that Corbyn is the chief obstacle: weak, vacillating, glum and scoring the lowest ever poll ratings for an opposition leader as he fails to grasp the severity of Labour’s crisis over antisemitism and Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/18/jeremy-corbyn-weak-leadership-labour-poverty-john-mcdonnell

This report is solid evidence that Labour is the LEAST antisemitic party in UK and that Corbyn has not looked the other way about antisemitism: 

politics: https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/labour-antisemitism-alle...

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

You’re right Ken. Only Red Pepper is authoritative or objective

No publication that wants to move Labour to the right on any issue can be called authoritative; nor can any which has acted in implacable hostility to the leader Labour's rank-and-file twice elected to the job by landslide margins.

And I didn't say that NO publication other than Red Pepper could be considered authoritative.  Just the ones you link to-the ones who haven't given up on moving the party back to Blairism, even though that form of Labour politics is discredited and permanently unpopular.

nicky

Ken, polls (and recent rlecgion results)  consistently show that 80% of fhe electorate and a majority of Labour voters believe that Corbyn is “ discredited and permanently unpopular”

nicky
NDPP

"Well well well...Ex-Labour MP Ian Austen appointed trade envoy to Israel by PM"

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1152207621509853184

For services rendered...

NorthReport
NorthReport
Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP wrote:

"Well well well...Ex-Labour MP Ian Austen appointed trade envoy to Israel by PM"

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1152207621509853184

For services rendered...

It wouldn't surprise me to see most of the other PIG/CUK MPs accepting sinecures like that-they all know they're doomed to lose their seats at the next general election. 

nicky

Only 35 percent of respondents who backed Labour at the last election said they wanted to see Mr Corbyn running the country, according to YouGov.

NDPP

George Galloway: MOATS: Sunday, July 21, 2019

https://youtu.be/im4bi8XCXTc

"This is not Iraq. The Iranians can and will fight back...Boris Johnson will be in by Wednesday afternoon and an entire new cabinet will be sworn in in the hours and days thereafter..."

NDPP

Strait Talking: UK Raises Threat Level As Tensions Over Tanker Rise

https://youtu.be/BlJy3g_jMgU

"The British prime minister is chairing a special meeting today to discuss the seizure of a UK oil tanker by Iran. Tehran says it was acting in accordance with international law."

NDPP

Boris Johnson declared new Conservative leader and UK Prime Minister.

 

Galloway: You'd Have To Be Mad To Think Boris Johnson is the Answer to Britain's Problems

https://on.rt.com/9yo7

"...Boris Johnson sees himself as Donald Trump's missing  brain and sees Britain as Greece to America's Rome. A land of learning, sophistication and culture firmly fastened to the rectum of brute American power. He is the wisest fool in Christendom. Poor Boris, he doesn't realise that both empires are history."

nicky

Ken, you have repeatedly asked me to stop criticizing Corbyn, as if anyone in the UK pays any more attention to me than they do to you.

I will make you a proposal. There is a by-election in Brecon Radnor on Aug. 1. It is a Welsh seat that Labour won last in the 70s but where they have maintained a significant vote.

If Labour gains in percentage vote I will not say anything negative about Corbyn till after the next general election. 

If Labour loses in percentage vote,  then you will stop cheering for him.

Deal?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I see no reason to make such a deal.   My posts about Corbyn are not "cheering"-they are simply about defending a decent person and the decent people who support him from some fairly despicable slanders, such as the antisemitism slur. 

In what possible way is that comparable, in terms of effect, to the bile you've endlessly spewed about Corbyn?

No other leader in Labour history, even Michael Foot-who was treated contemptuously, but never subjected to anything like the the relentless hate campaign the entire British establishment has inflicted on Corbyn-has ever received this treatment from not only his opponents, but those within his party who are supposed to be working to help elect a Labour government, but clearly don't want Labour to win the next election.  

There has never before been the spectable of a deputy leader of the Labour Party using all of his energies to work, NOT for the defeat of the Tories at the polls-an objective he is supposed to place above all other things-but for the anathemization of his own party's leader-and who has done so knowing that no good can possibly come of his pointless crusade against his leader, and who has to be aware of the fact that what he is doing would justify his expulsion from Labour on the grounds that he is "bringing the party into disrepute".

There has never before been the spectacle of the BBC devoting almost all of its energies to trying to destroy one party leader-a leader who has done nothing to deserve destruction.

As to the byelection...it looks as though it will go to the LibDems and that the Brexit Party will also run well.  Since Labour is now doing what you want and being willing to support a second referendum-it can't center the second referendum without reducing itself to being a group of moderate Tories-the result proves that your demands that Labour center the referendum can never lead to Labour gains in the polls.  Labour would do badly in that by-election no matter what position it took on Brexit and even if it had a leader who nominated Netanyahu for the Nobel Peace Prize.

(0n edit) It's also worth pointing out that Brecon and Radnorshire is a constituency that Labour hasn't won since 1974, that Labour hasn't come close to winning the seat since the Eighties, and never came close to winning it even under Blair-all of which means this by-election is not a valid test of anything Labour might do or not do.

As a person who doesn't live in the UK, it's a mystery to me why you are so obsessed with trying to push a party in the UK, a party you likely would never have supported under any leader, to change its leader to suit you.  You are fixated on this to such a disturbing degree that you have championed the antisemitism slur over and over again-you've acted as though Corbyn's supporters are some sort of mob of left-wing Nazis or something and as if being non-Zionist is no different from being a guard at Auschwitz or something.  Why can you not accept that criticism of what the Israeli government does to Palestinians is essentially never based on antisemitism and that there's no justification for equating non-Zionism with bigotry?

Unlike what you are doing, unlike what the British political establishment and the last supporters of the Third Way in the whole of Britain-aka, the PLP-nothing I've posted here does harm.

I will not stop challenging your despicable slanders of a good person and the good, decent, committed people who are facing a campaign to drive them out of the party simply because they don't believe that Labour has to be Blairite for the rest of eternity.

 

NorthReport
voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

Boris Johnson declared new Conservative leader and UK Prime Minister.

 

Galloway: You'd Have To Be Mad To Think Boris Johnson is the Answer to Britain's Problems

https://on.rt.com/9yo7

"...Boris Johnson sees himself as Donald Trump's missing  brain and sees Britain as Greece to America's Rome. A land of learning, sophistication and culture firmly fastened to the rectum of brute American power. He is the wisest fool in Christendom. Poor Boris, he doesn't realise that both empires are history."

All well and good, but this is coming from a guy who supports Farage?!

https://tinyurl.com/yyot9qu2

NDPP

And you support Bill Browder and EU neoliberalism, no?  And quote the trots view too. I could have sworn you were a hardcore Guardian guy.  How delightfully  eclectic. Galloway is an excellent and perceptive observer of the British political scene. So what's your point again exactly?

NorthReport
nicky

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/07/24/the-first-post-leadership-elections-poll-has-swintons-party-the-main-gainer-and-lab-20/

Con  25, LD 23, Lab 19, Brexit 17, Green 9

Whenever YouGov carry out a poll you get a string of attacks from Labour supporters on social media saying the pollster is pro-Tory.  What they cease to highlight is that for the vast majority of its existence YouGov’s president, was Peter Kellner who is was married to a Labour peer and is himself a long standing LAB backer.

The pollster was just one of two to come out of the Euros polling test with its head up high. All the firms apart from Ipsos-MORI overstated by some margin the LAB share and understated the LDs

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

And you support Bill Browder and EU neoliberalism, no?  And quote the trots view too. I could have sworn you were a hardcore Guardian guy.  How delightfully  eclectic. Galloway is an excellent and perceptive observer of the British political scene. So what's your point again exactly?

I'm just wondering why someone would be so hostile to Johnson, while at the same time thinking Farage is a great guy. To me, it's kind of like saying Rob Ford is a threat to all things decent, but Jason Kenney is a great patriot.

 

josh

nicky wrote:

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/07/24/the-first-post-leadership-elections-poll-has-swintons-party-the-main-gainer-and-lab-20/

Con  25, LD 23, Lab 19, Brexit 17, Green 9

Whenever YouGov carry out a poll you get a string of attacks from Labour supporters on social media saying the pollster is pro-Tory.  What they cease to highlight is that for the vast majority of its existence YouGov’s president, was Peter Kellner who is was married to a Labour peer and is himself a long standing LAB backer.

The pollster was just one of two to come out of the Euros polling test with its head up high. All the firms apart from Ipsos-MORI overstated by some margin the LAB share and understated the LDs

Didn’t say they were pro-Tory, but that they skewed against Labour.  And the evidence is as clear as day.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

It is extrordinarly telling that, since early July, it has ONLY been the YouGov polls showing Labour running behind the Tories.

And those same polls show that,  contrary to the insistence of the "Remain is all that matters" crowd, the only party which would gain from Labour going all-out Remain would be the Brexit Party.  The LibDem vote, in all polls other than that of YouGov, is more or less where it usually has been since the Nineties.   Corbyn could not do what the Remain crowd demands-that is, put all issues OTHER than staying in the EU aside-and still have any chance at all of winning.  

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

All the YouGov polls reflect is that there is a temporary swing to the LibDems as a result of the election of their new leader, Jo Swinson.  That support will collapse as soon as the voters remember that Swinson was one of the 27 LibDem MPs who voted to allow universities to impose massive increase in tuition and fees imposed by the "coalition" government.

NDPP

Boris Johnson Appoints Pro-Fracking, Anti-Environment MP Theresa Villiers as Environment Secretary

https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1154119056993214465

"The new Prime Minister Boris Johnson has continued his bizarre cabinet appointments today..."

nicky

Corbyn muchless popular than even the execrable Boris Johnson.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/boris-johnson-beats-jeremy-corbyn-in-poll-142919140.html

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

Corbyn muchless popular than even the execrable Boris Johnson.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/boris-johnson-beats-jeremy-corbyn-in-poll-142919140.html

Solely due to the endless lie and slur campaign aimed at Corbyn and his supporters by the BBC and the right-wing(which is now made up of the PLP and essentially no one else) of his party.

The choice of a new leader would only be legitimate if the MPs were taken out of the decision-making process on who should be leader entirely.  Nobody in the party OTHER than the MPs wants Labour to have a "moderate"-i.e., a Tory-as leader.  

There's no reason the MPs, after all the damage they've done, should have any say at all about who should be leader.

None of the anti-Corbynites are acting out of positive intent-they don't want a socialist future-Labour elected on a non-socialist platform would not be worth having in power, and likely wouldn't win at all-they simply don't want to accept that the rank-and-file have rejected Blairism and that the will of the rank-and-file should outweigh anything else.  

 

bekayne

nicky wrote:

Corbyn muchless popular than even the execrable Boris Johnson.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/boris-johnson-beats-jeremy-corbyn-in-poll-142919140.html

That's the same poll that shows the Conservatives at 25%

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/s7dlnv4ta4/TimesResults_VI_190724_w.pdf

Debater

Liberal Democrats picked up 2 seats today -- one from Labour (Podsmead/Gloucester) and one from the Conservatives (Barnwood/Gloucester).

Will Labour get the message that it's time to boot Corbyn?

Debater

Podsmead (Gloucester) result:

LDEM: 30.0% (+30.0)

CON: 29.6% (-18.5)

LAB: 18.0% (-33.9)

BREX: 16.4% (+16.4)

GRN: 4.3% (+4.3)

UKIP: 1.6% (+1.6)

Liberal Democrat GAIN from Labour.

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1154535318017708033

Debater

Barnwood (Gloucester) result:

LDEM: 46.5% (+15.1)

CON: 34.1% (-6.0)

BREX: 10.5% (+10.5)

LAB: 4.4% (-6.9)

GRN: 4.1% (-1.3)

UKIP: 0.4% (-11.2)

Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1154536468192382976

nicky

Debater, it doesnt matter how much bad electoral news there his for Corbyn. Not even 14% in the European election maaters, even though the vote encompassed the whole of the UK.

His ostrich-like supporters, both in the UK and on Babble will seize on any excuse to pretend he is not an electoral albatross for Labour. They are constantly harping that it is all the fault of the Balirites or the media. Corbyn is of course blameless, notwithstanding his 4 to 1 disapproval rate.

The tragedy is that Labour would romp home with virtually any other leader. Corbyn is the only leader Johnson can possibly beat.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Labour wouldn't win with leader Watson approved of, because Watson will only tolerate somebody from the extreme right of the party.

Same with the MPs.   They don't want to win-they just want to regain control of the party and prevent internal democracry from occurring.

robbie_dee

Debater wrote:

Liberal Democrats picked up 2 seats today -- one from Labour (Podsmead/Gloucester) and one from the Conservatives (Barnwood/Gloucester).

Will Labour get the message that it's time to boot Corbyn?

Just over 3000 people combined voted in these three local council byelections so it's a little difficult to draw too many broad conclusions about a forthcoming general election when we might anticipate more than 30 million voters.

nicky

Robbie, it is part of a broader more sustained pattern of local council by-elections.  

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/07/26/the-july-local-by-elections-see-the-ld-surge-continuing/

 

nicky

What nonsense you spout Ken, that no leader would do better than Corbyn.

Corbyn, as the polls consistently show, is THE MOST UNPOPULAR LEADER OF ANY NATIONAL BRITSH PARTY EVER. Repeat EVER.

How could anyone possibly do worse?

robbie_dee

nicky wrote:

Robbie, it is part of a broader more sustained pattern of local council by-elections.  

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/07/26/the-july-local-by-elections-see-the-ld-surge-continuing/

OK so 20,000 votes cast then. Look I agree that the Liberal Democrats seem to be on a bit of a roll right now between the European elections and these recent local byelections. But when it comes to general elections, i.e. the ones that most Britons REALLY pay attention to, the LDs have a long history of underperforming. I suspect that when given the choice of Johnson's hard Brexit or Corbyn's anything else, voters will return in droves to the two parties that have actually had a chance to win for the last 100 years.  I could be wrong. It would be deeply ironic, though, if anti-Brexit voters end up getting the result they desire least because they split their votes.

Debater

You're right that the Liberal Democrats won't win power any time soon since they haven't been the government since World War I and became the 3rd party in the years after (which is what Stephen Harper was hoping would happen to the Liberals in Canada after 2011).

But the point is that a small party like the Lib Dems are picking up a lot of support and Labour has made very little progress under Corbyn.  Despite Brexit bringing down 2 Conservative PM's in a row (first Cameron and now May), Corbyn and Labour haven't been able to capitalize on it.

There is still time to replace Corbyn before the next general election with a leader that doesn't have the huge disapproval numbers that Corbyn has.  Otherwise, the UK may be stuck with their own version of Trump for quite a while.

josh

First poll after Johnson became PM.  Tories 2 over Labour.

https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1155198201881911296

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

What nonsense you spout Ken, that no leader would do better than Corbyn.

Corbyn, as the polls consistently show, is THE MOST UNPOPULAR LEADER OF ANY NATIONAL BRITSH PARTY EVER. Repeat EVER.

How could anyone possibly do worse?

I didn't say NO leader could do better-I said no leader acceptable to the PLP could do better.  Labour would have no right to even ask young people to vote for it if it was led by another Blairite who still thought the Iraq War was right, who was pro-austerity, anti-taxing the rich and anti-activist.  If the PLP were to accept that the will of the Labour rank and file that the Labour be socialist rather than "social democratic"-in the UK and Europe, there are no longer any major differences between the social democrats and the Thatcherites-were to accept that internal party democracy needed to be restored, and were to agree to submit to open selection in their constituencies at every general election, than a leader like that might do well, IF the UK media and the PLP were to accept a leader like that.  But we both know the anti-Corbynites, none of whom are socialists, none of whom are for peace, none of whom are against austerity-would never accept a leader like that, and assume that they are all entitled to perpetual reselection for life, even though none of them hold a seat at this point that Labour wouldn't hold with any possible candidate.

This is why the PLP should have NO say in who gets on the leadership ballot.  The PLP doesn't care what the rank-and-file thinks.  The PLP thinks it is above the party itself, and that it is doing the party a favor simply by allowing themselves to be the candidates in the constituencies they happen to be lucky enough to hold.  There is nothing special about being an MP-and that is the reason no other political party anywhere in the British parliamentary tradition gives its MPs gatekeeper status as to who is permitted to be considered as leader.

Corbyn is unpopular at the moment, agreed.  But it isn't his fault.  It's not his fault that he's had an issue to face in Brexit on which there IS no popular stand to take, and on which there's been no way to take any one stand without splitting the party.

It's not his fault that he and his supporters have been slandered with bogus charges of mass antisemitism-Labour is no more antisemitic than it ever has been and Corbyn's supporters have, if anything, displayed LESS antisemitism, when antisemitism is measured by legitimate metrics-virtually nothing anyone can say as criticism of what the Israeli government does to Palestinians can be considered antisemitic, since criticism of the Israeli government is never an attack on Jews as a group-and there was never any valid reason to push Corbyn to adopt the IHRA definitions and examples or to demonize him when he made it clear that he wouldn't punish people for committing truth on the Israel/Palestine issue.

The positions Corbyn has taken on the issues outside of Brexit-the issues that would actually make a real difference in the lives of ordinary people in the UK-are universally popular.  The polls show the electorate supporting the renationalization of rail, water, and electricity.  They show the voters want all the cuts in the NHS restored and the NHS to once again be free at the point of service.   The polls show the electorate want the savage Tory cuts in benefits undone, want a transition to renewable energy sources, and want a clear break in the mindless militarism of the Tory and Blairite governments since 1979.

There are no policies to the right of Corbyn's which could possibly be A) Effective as policy B) Different than Tory policies.

And no one in the party OTHER than the right wing of the PLP itself want those policies reversed.

Corbyn has made no real mistakes in the way he has handled his leadership.  He's frequently put the government on the defensive during question time, draws large crowds to his speeches-no one who can't get crowds to come to their rallies could ever be an effective campaigner during elections-and he is seen, even by those who disagree with him, as one of the very few decent people in UK politics.

Since the PLP has known, the whole time, that they couldn't force the man out as leader, and since they know that their relentless attacks on Corbyn have done the party nothing but damage and can only make it impossible for anyone put in as leader, especially anyone on the Right of the party, to ever unite Labour for victory after Corbyn was made to leave, would you at least concede that they've been irresponsible in carrying out their hate campaign, including the completely unjustifiable claim that he didn't care about a form of bigotry that everyone knows he's been fighting against passionately all his life?  Would you at least agree that the anti-Corbyn wing of the PLP, in doing this, have pretty much totally delegitimized their own role in British political life and should, themselves, stand down at the next election and allow their constituency parties to nominate candidates who actually support the values the CLP's fight for, no matter who is leader?

And can you seriously, seriously argue that Owen Smith, the man the PLP wanted to replace Corbyn, the man who couldn't get anyone to attend his rallies in the leadership campaign, the man who actually expected the party to believe that he could be a lobbyist for Pfizer and STILL defend the NHS, the man who was seen as totally irrelevant and out of touch by the vast majority of the party, and who only managed to get 38% of the vote in the contest because the party disciplinary bodies, controlled at that time by the right wing, expelled or suspended 100,000 Labour members or supporters just to prevent them voting for Corbyn, could possibly be doing better in this situation? If so, why would you believe that a man who had no appeal to anyone then could possibly be an effective leader NOW? 

Let's face it, nicky...Corbyn could win a majority of 150 at the next general election and you'd STILL be screaming "it's not to late to replace him, he's a disaster".

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

josh wrote:

First poll after Johnson became PM.  Tories 2 over Labour.

https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/1155198201881911296

 

Labour up by 7 points in that poll from the previous poll by that firm, at 28%.  Tories at 30%, up 3% from the previous poll-largely due to a sharp decline in Brexit Party support, with the BP falling from 23% to 16%.

Greens at only 5%, down 3% from last poll.

Lib Dems up one, to 16%.

Combined Lib Dem/Green vote not high enough to support argument that Labour would gain at all from going any more Remain than they currently are, that it's enough that Labout is willing to back a second referendum.

 

NDPP

"The Remain elite have adopted the EU's attitude to democracy wholesale: it's fine to keep the masses amused, but for serious stuff it's an unwanted intrusion..."

https://twitter.com/labourleave/status/1154067615427584000

 

The EU's Other Periphery

https://off-guardian.org/2019/07/27/the-eus-other-periphery/

"...The transfer of labour from the East was not only spontaneous but also systematically predatory..."

But keep cheering the glories of EU neoliberalism.

JKR

Meanwhile the Leave elites are pinning their hopes and dreams of establishing a right wing UK on Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage!

nicky

In today’s Independent:

“Labour would surge clear of Tories under Boris Johnson if Jeremy Corbyn replaced as leader, poll indicates”

there has been a paucity of polls measuring what would happen if Laboured ditched Corbyn. This poll shows it would shoot up by 9% and win the election rather than losing it with Corbyn.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I noticed you posted no link to that poll.  

In any case, there could only be a gain for Labour if it had another left-wing candidate as leader.  It's impossible that there could be any gain at all with a leader right-wing enough to get the PLP's approval.

It's not possible to change leaders by any method which could possibly be democratic between now and the snap election which is certain to be held within weeks.  No leader chosen in a PLP-only vote could ever be legitimate or popular.

swallow swallow's picture

The poll nicky is referring to:

Quote:

The Deltapoll for The Mail on Sunday placed Mr Johnson’s party on 30 per cent while Labour were in a second place on 25 per cent, and the Liberal Democrats on 18 per cent. It showed the Brexit Party losing ground, on 14 per cent.

But if Labour was to drop Mr Corbyn as leader, the poll added the party would shoot into the lead at 34 per cent, with the Tories on 28 per cent, and the Lib Dems under new leader Jo Swinson on 13 per cent.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-poll-jeremy-corbyn-boris-johnson-bounce-brexit-a9024116.html

nicky

Wrong again Ken.

the poll does not ask “what if Labour replaced Corbyn with another left-wing leader?” It simply asks “what if Labour replaced Corbyn?” In other words the public prefers any anonymous generic warm body to Corbyn.

As for your observation of a snap election, the main reason Johnson will call one is to make sure Labour has no chance to replace Corbyn since he is the only Labour leader Johnson can beat.

If Corbyn wanted Labour to win he would step aside.

nicky
Debater

When a leader with very high disapproval numbers insists on running anyway it creates a risk that their party will lose big.

Hillary Clinton = high disapproval = loss to Donald Trump in 2016

Kathleen Wynne  = high disapproval = historic election loss of Ontario Liberals in 2018

Jeremy Corbyn = high disapproval = loss to Boris Johnson . . . ??

Will Labour learn from history?

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