The United States of Atrocity

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swallow swallow's picture

Yeh, that's my perspective - Canada is an indepedent imperialist power. Todd Gordon has written a book on this that, fopr me, workls much better than Engler's writings. And I recall the fury at Chomsky for daring to criticize Canada's crimes! ("War Criminal Airport" is a line always guaranteed to upset.) 

Can we, in talking about that, put aside the unfair and untrue implication that babblers who differ from your opinion on Ukraine are apologists for American imperalism? 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

swallow wrote:
Can we, in talking about that, put aside the unfair and untrue implication that babblers who differ from your opinion on Ukraine are apologists for American imperalism?

lol. Everyone thinks they're right, including me. Maybe I rush to get to a particular point sometimes, and focus on the similarities between the views of the State Department and some comrades here, but this really is life and death for the people of Donbass and I find myself treating the issues as deadly serious. So, yeah, i probably truncate some arguments and just focus on what i think is important and maybe miss some finer points of difference. However, before everything else, I am a peacenik and oppose war. I will never apologize for that.

Pondering

ikosmos wrote:
If capitalism continues as the dominant social system in North America for the next 100 years, and humanity survives, i really don't see any future other than a Borg-like absorbtion of Canada into the USA. And then this discussion will be about what will then be OUR country. Sorry for the pessimism.

I agree.

I also fear we are being groomed to accept more and more atrocities, like the failure to rescue people from Katrina, a mass grave in Texas, loosened safety rules exploding Lac Megantic. It is the new norm for outrageous things to happen. Canada will remain an independent country but it might eventually be in name only.

lagatta

Yeah, the "truncated arguments" nail my opposition to the premise of this thread. Namely that anyone who doesn't toe the Kremlin line on Ukraine has views "similar" to the (US) State Deparment, when this is clearly untrue for a great many of us, who have fought US and other imperialisms for years or even decades. Including Canadian imperialism, which is real (look at Canadian banks in the Caribbean and South America) though a minor player. And no, not giving a pass to the Russian military power's plays for regional hegemony.

No, I'm not "Russophobic", or "anti (US) American" for that matter. And certainly not anti-French for speaking out against the ignoble French role in conflicts in francophone Africa (former French and Belgian colonies).

Neither Wall Street nor the Kremlin! Nor any other imperialism or ecocide.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
So, yeah, i probably truncate some arguments and just focus on what i think is important and maybe miss some finer points of difference.

And sometimes the argument gets truncated all the way to "As usual, our resident Banderite babblers are tripping over each other for the honour of licking the jackboots of the Yanqui propaganda machine", and other similarly helpful synopses.

6079_Smith_W

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I guess the title was too subtle a clue for the deliberately clueless. I have a suggestion if you don't want a masturbation thread then don't sit down in the middle of a circle jerk. Just get shocked and leave the room quietly.

Well let's put it this way, if the point isn't actually dealing with the issues behind the murders of activists or immigrants, but rather reducing those atrocities to a "grab bag" (as is openly declared in the first post), then I'd say the masturbation callout is accurate.

Or perhaps it is another example of sad American culture, using shock porn as a foil for one's agenda is straight out of the FOX News styleguide.

 

6079_Smith_W

swallow wrote:

I'd also venture to guess that the implication that many bablers are pro-American imperialism, is what turns those babblers off.

Perhaps, though shit-talkers talk shit, and there has never been any shortage of that here; not much point in getting overly-upset by ridiculous personal attacks.

Personally, I am a bit more turned off by propaganda eclipsing news (even news one disagrees with) and ideology eclipsing open discussion (ditto).

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
not much point in getting overly-upset by ridiculous personal attacks.

They're typically not even personal attacks.  It's always "some quislings" or "some Nazi sympathizers" or "some cowards".  Pretty much any babbler who doesn't own a framed photo of Putin on a horse can join the "usual suspects".

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

lagatta

Shirtless on a horse!

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The above images represent the dominant view in Canada of Russia and the USA. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

We all select what we focus our attention on.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Putin pulls this pose off much better.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Why are those girly-men wearing shirts?

One of them feels the need to wear TWO shirts!

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Here's what I was referring to, BTW.  It's kind of a classic.

[IMG]http://i57.tinypic.com/16kxrhe.jpg[/IMG]

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

So some people ride horses, and some people swim shirtless.

Only a modern-day Jesus could combine the two into one AWESOME display of manly.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I guess the difference with Putin is that Russian Presidents are not usually as vain glorious as your typical POTUS.  My first reaction is that when "his" he-man picture is shown in the mass media it is vile state propoganda while the pictures of POTUS's are examples of freedom of the press.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I agree with some Americans about their country. Here is one example of how I agree with an American on American culture. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgFX8h6b2Wo

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Wearing a shirt when you're riding makes all the difference, I guess.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

So some people ride horses, and some people swim shirtless.

Only a modern-day Jesus could combine the two into one AWESOME display of manly.

Look for Harpo riding a stampede over the Great Lakes. I read that Harper is a modern-day Jesus.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

For his propaganda picture, Harper posed with a kitten. And as polite Canadians, none of us could bring ourselves to mock that.

Geoff

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I agree with some Americans about their country. Here is one example of how I agree with an American on American culture. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgFX8h6b2Wo

Fantastic video, kropotkin!  I'm picturing Jesus standing on top of the Empire State Building.  Gotta love George Carlin. 

lagatta

As lagatta, I most vehemently object to the vile Harper posing with a kitten. He looked as if he was about to strangle it.

"Man on horseback" goes back eons before any of the examples shown.

Great, kropotkin. A lot of that sardonic humour in the wake of the so-called Great War. They all thought they had God on their side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAnaeU-p7iM Jean-Pierre Ferland "God is an American"... etc.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

THAT, my friends, is how you do manly-man on a horse.  No shirt, no pants, big woodie.

[IMG]http://i57.tinypic.com/21mwvp4.jpg[/IMG]

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:
THAT, my friends, is how you do manly-man on a horse.  No shirt, no pants, big woodie.

 

What these politicians are all reaching for should be obvious.

lagatta

That is true, but Napo is apeing "classical" statuary.

For the Russians out there, not such an effective military strategy in the Russian campaign...

josh

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Riding a horse in a suit? Almost as bad as Nixon strolling the beach in a suit.

josh

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Poor horse. No confusing Taft with a jockey.

Unionist

Revenge.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture
lagatta

Is Taft also riding sidesaddle?

Indeed, too fine-boned a steed for such a load.

lagatta

Alan, a CAMPUS cop of all things.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

lagatta wrote:

Alan, a CAMPUS cop of all things.

I wonder if he'll be rewarded a paid vacation like a real cop.

USA!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8r9Xqj3SKU

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

General Wesley Clark calls for putting “disloyal” Americans in internment camps

Retired US Army General Wesley Clark called for the internment of persons deemed “disloyal” to the United States government in an interview with MSNBC last Friday.

Warning of the threat posed by “lone wolf” attacks similar to last week’s mass shooting in Chattanooga, Tennessee, Clark advocated stepped-up surveillance of US communities and pre-emptive detention of persons suspected of ideological or political opposition to US government policies.

“We have got to identify the people who are most likely to be radicalized. We’ve got to cut this off at the beginning,” Clark said....

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I think that it's great that they dont even try to conceal their true face anymore.

Check and mate.

Fascism is indeed here and not going away any time soon.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture
Catchfire Catchfire's picture

This might be my favourite thread ever, but I have a short memory.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture
6079_Smith_W

Really, no discussion of this issue would be complete without Jacob Holdt's American Pictures:

http://www.american-pictures.com/

From Holdt's wikipedia page:

Quote:

In the spring of 1970, Holdt set off to Canada invited to work on a farm. From here he planned to hitchhike to Chile where he intended to support Salvador Allende’s democratic struggle for social justice. But on his way through the United States, he was held up at gunpoint by young blacks and instead quickly got involved in the black struggle for the next four years.

Arriving with only $40 in his pocket, Jacob Holdt was shocked and fascinated by the social differences he encountered. He ended up staying in the USA more than five years, criss-crossing the country by hitchhiking more than 100,000 miles and recording his impressions on film

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