Is the US and its NATO "allies" planning to attack Russia and start World War III?

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ikosmos ikosmos's picture

bekayne wrote:
So who was Dmitri Kiselyov speaking for? Just himself?

http://www.independent.ie/life/no-more-illusions-putins-nuclear-option-3...

''During the era of political romanticism, the Soviet Union pledged never to use nuclear weapons first," Kiselyov told the audience of Vesti Nedeli, his current affairs show, one of the country's most widely watched programmes. "But Russia's current military doctrine does not." He paused briefly for effect. "No more illusions."

 

yawn. As you should know, if you are not simply quoting the State Department of the Yanqui Empire, Kieslyov is a popular journalist. He can say whatever he likes, true or false, without personal consequences.

Since you obviously didn't read my remarks, I will repeat them.

I wrote:
Both Escobar and Cohen are aware, as you seem not to be, that the ferocity of "conventional" weapons now comes very close to or exceeds the damage of nuclear weapons. So, for example, an overwhelming use of conventional force by NATO in an unprovoked attack on Russia, on a wide front, could get a nuclear reply.

That is an example of "first strike" according to Russian military doctrine. This is completely different from the US first strike policy, a policy that has now lasted decades and decades, of an attack the purpose of which is to pre-emptively annihilate a rival in global affairs.

The monstrous US regime considers this perfectly normal [and, as I've already noted, has had this policy for decades and decades, lasting from the Soviet period, to the "friendly period" with Russia, to the current re-newed Cold War].

So, it seems, do you.

NDPP

Russia Warns Denmark Against Joining NATO Missile System

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/03/21/402821/Denmark-warned-over-NATO...

"Russia has warned Denmark against joining NATO's missile defense system, saying Moscow considers the move a threat. In an op-ed piece published in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten, the Russian ambassador to Copenhagen warned the Scandinavian country's officials of the consquences of joining the system...

'I don't think the Danes are fully aware of the consequences if Denmark joins the US-led missile defense system,' said Mikhail Vanin, adding that if such a plan is implemented, 'Denmark would become part of the threat against Russia, it would be less peaceful and relations with Russia will be harmed."

Atlantic Resolve; Continuous NATO War Games on Russia's Western, Southern Borders

https://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2015/03/21/atlantic-resolve-continuous-...

"Lt Gen Ben Hodges told the Defense Writers Group at a March 17 breakfast that the Russian action of illegally annexing Crimea from Ukraine and its continuing threat to the eastern part of Ukraine is a game-changer on the continent.

US Army Europe is also working with countries in NATO's Partnership for Peace program, including Georgia and Ukraine. Beginning next month, troopers from the 173rd Airborne Brigade will train Ukrainian Interior Ministry troops, and in May, US paratroopers and tankers will exercise in Georgia, Hodges said..."

NDPP
NDPP

Russia Under Attack  - by Paul Craig Roberts

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/03/paul-craig-roberts/russia-under-attack/

"...Thus, Russia faces the renewal of conflict in Ukraine simultaneously with three more Ukraine-type situations along its Asian border. And this is only the beginning of the pressure that Washington is mounting on Russia.

We have crazed US generals on national television calling for 'killing Russians.'.."

NDPP

Top Russia Scholar Stephen Cohen: War Between NATO and Russia A Real Possibility (podcast)

http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/03/20/4761

*Must Hear*

NDPP

Russia Invites NATO Members to Security Conference: Experts Warn About Risk of Unwanted Nuclear War

http://nsnbc.me/2015/03/05/russia-invites-nato-members-to-security-confe...

"Russia has invited all NATO member States and the NATO leadership to attend a security conference in mid April, said the Russian Deputy Defense Minister Anatoly Antonov. The invitation comes against the backdrop of deteriorating relations between members of the Atlantic Alliance and Russia.

Meanwhile, during a recent symposium, experts warned about the risk of a military escalation that includes the use of nuclear weapons, whether it be wanted or unwanted..."

NDPP

An Interview with Paul Craig Roberts

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/03/25/an-interview-with-paul-craig-robe...

"...I think Washington is lost in hubris and arrogance and is more or less insane. Also, there is a belief that the US can win a nuclear war with Russia. There was an article in Foreign Affairs around 2005-2006 in which this conclusion was reached.

The belief in the winnability of nuclear war has been boosted by faith in ABM defenses. The argument is that the US can hit Russia so hard in a pre-emptive first strike that Russia would not retaliate in fear of a second blow..."

indigo 007 indigo 007's picture

ikosmos wrote:

Many think that the US is planning to attack Russia DIRECTLY in the future.

Anyone not brainwashed (like the zombified Russophobic elements in Ukraine) knows that, at the very least, a second Cold War, based on fabrications and speculation about Crimean independence, Russian troops "invading" Ukraine to support the resistance in Novorossiya, and the shooting down of the Malaysian airliner over the war zone has already begun. Huge US pressure on its obsequious EU and NATO allies has caused these countries enormous and expensive sanctions, costing them billions, against Russia. Meanwhile, Russia has "pivoted" eastward, towards China, the BRICS countries, and away from the aggressive Yanqui Empire.

Is this scare-mongering or a real danger? Is this an idea that should be ridiculed, as some babblers have already done, or examined seriously as a significant global danger.

Unless you think thermonuclear war is a laughing matter, which some babblers obviously do, then the subject looks to be worthy of serious investigation.

more to follow ..

 

indigo 007 indigo 007's picture

ikosmos wrote:

Many think that the US is planning to attack Russia DIRECTLY in the future.

Anyone not brainwashed (like the zombified Russophobic elements in Ukraine) knows that, at the very least, a second Cold War, based on fabrications and speculation about Crimean independence, Russian troops "invading" Ukraine to support the resistance in Novorossiya, and the shooting down of the Malaysian airliner over the war zone has already begun. Huge US pressure on its obsequious EU and NATO allies has caused these countries enormous and expensive sanctions, costing them billions, against Russia. Meanwhile, Russia has "pivoted" eastward, towards China, the BRICS countries, and away from the aggressive Yanqui Empire.

Is this scare-mongering or a real danger? Is this an idea that should be ridiculed, as some babblers have already done, or examined seriously as a significant global danger.

Unless you think thermonuclear war is a laughing matter, which some babblers obviously do, then the subject looks to be worthy of serious investigation.

more to follow ..

 

indigo 007 indigo 007's picture

ikosmos wrote:

Many think that the US is planning to attack Russia DIRECTLY in the future.

Anyone not brainwashed (like the zombified Russophobic elements in Ukraine) knows that, at the very least, a second Cold War, based on fabrications and speculation about Crimean independence, Russian troops "invading" Ukraine to support the resistance in Novorossiya, and the shooting down of the Malaysian airliner over the war zone has already begun. Huge US pressure on its obsequious EU and NATO allies has caused these countries enormous and expensive sanctions, costing them billions, against Russia. Meanwhile, Russia has "pivoted" eastward, towards China, the BRICS countries, and away from the aggressive Yanqui Empire.

Is this scare-mongering or a real danger? Is this an idea that should be ridiculed, as some babblers have already done, or examined seriously as a significant global danger.

Unless you think thermonuclear war is a laughing matter, which some babblers obviously do, then the subject looks to be worthy of serious investigation.

more to follow ..

 

indigo 007 indigo 007's picture

For anybody not already doing so Paul Craig Roberts. org is an excellent blog to follow and stay on top of what is really going on over there.

I just read a report this morning there are huge NATO exercises and deployments on Russia's borders now taking place.

His blog also provides other very good links to follow

 

indigo 007 indigo 007's picture

For anybody not already doing so Paul Craig Roberts. org is an excellent blog to follow and stay on top of what is really going on over there.

I just read a report this morning there are huge NATO exercises and deployments on Russia's borders now taking place.

His blog also provides other very good links to follow

 

 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Awe, someone needs a little Dr Strangelove (en)... and why stop there... 10, 20 million killed tops, depending on the breaks.

Smile

 

 

 

 

 

 

(post contains an easter egg, see if you can find it)

 

 

NDPP

Thanks Bec. Love it. Only now the US wackos aren't only played by actors but by real generals: Breedlove sitting in for Strangelove..

NDPP

Russia Warns NATO Drills a "Problem' as US Attack Planes Buzz Poland (and vid/podcast)

http://rt.com/news/244317-usa-poland-thunderbolt-drills/

"Four US A-10 Thunderbolt II attack planes are taking part in war games in Poland, as the nation expects about 10,000 NATO forces at drills this year. Moscow says the military build-up at Russia's borders will have a negative long-term impact. On Wednesday, Polish Defense Minister Tomasz Siemoniak, who is also deputy prime minister, said that he approved of the constant presence of NATO troops in his country. ' We are striving for it. We are preparing the ground for their constant presence', Tass quoted him as saying.

On Wednesday, Russia's envoy to NATO, Aleksandr Grushko, pointed out that Russia hasn't 'substantially increased the number of its military drills, while the military activity of NATO has escalated, 'shaping a new military reality. Today's problem is not Russia's military activity, but the increased military activity of NATO. Every other day new military exercises take place...'

Another part of Russia's concern is the possibility of US weapons deliveries to Ukraine. 'Weapons supply activity from the US to Ukraine are fraught with a failure of a shaky truce in Donbass and outright threaten Russia's security,' the Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman said, pointing out it undermines the Minsk Agreements and calls into question the plans of US and NATO."

'We are at 3 minutes to midnight: After twelve we're finished.' - Noam Chomsky

NDPP

Canada, Do Not Follow US Into Permawar

http://worldbeyondwar.org/canada-do-not-follow-u-s-into-permawar/

"O Canada, to thine own self be true, not to thine heavily militarized neighbor. Robin Williams called you a nice apartment over a meth lab for a reason, and now you're bringing the drugs upstairs.

We need the message to reach you now before you follow the US down a path it has been on since its creation, a path that used to include regular invasions of your land..."

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Wow, four A-10 Thunderbolts... Russia is doomed.Undecided

NDPP

US Guided Missile Destroyer To Enter Black Sea

https://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2015/04/02/u-s-guided-missile-destroyer...

"US Navy Destroyer Jason Dunham to enter Black Sea Friday. Some 750 US Army tanks and thousands of troops were deployed to Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia for Atlantic Resolve activities, in a move described as a means ' to deter Russian aggression'. Moscow has repeatedly expressed concern..."

 

Breedlove: NATO To Base Heavy Weapons, Missiles in Romania

https://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2015/04/01/breedlove-nato-to-base-heavy...

NATO to announce soon. He voiced his confidence in Romania's prompt response and agreement with this decision..."

NDPP

Obama Declares 'National Emergency' Based on Alleged Cyber Threats From Russia, China

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/04/03/cybe-a03.html

"US President Barack Obama issues an executive order Wednesday declaring a 'national emergency' over cyberattacks on US targets. 'The same technologies that keep our military strong are used by hackers in China and Russia to target our defense contractors and systems that support our troops...Our primary focus will be on cyber threats from overseas.

The supposed threat of cyber attacks against US companies and infrastructure is a major component of US war propaganda aimed at preparing public opinion for war iwth a number of targets, above all China and Russia..."

NDPP

NATO's Spearhead Force Ready For War in Europe

https://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2015/04/03/natos-spearhead-force-ready-...

"NATO has a new 'spearhead force' known as the Very High Readiness Joint Task Force (VJTF) which the alliance has started to test..."

 

US Military Convoy Rolling Through Europe 'Aggressive Provocative' Step (and vid)

http://rt.com/op-edge/245581-nato-czech-republic-us-tanks/

"Yes, I think it is clearly a provocation. This is another aggressive step by the US and NATO. It's not Russia that has been the aggressor in this situation, it's the US and NATO trying to absorb Ukraine to move closer and closer right up tp the critical border of Russia, that has created this crisis.."

 

The Saker; Yes, Russia Is *Still* Ready For War - Even Nuclear War

http://thesaker.is/yes-russia-is-still-ready-for-war-even-nuclear-war/

"...This topic makes me sick in my stomach. I hate it. I am also frustrated to tears that having survived the Cold War I am now facing by far the most dangerous international situation since the Cuban Missile Crisis. (Then, at least everybody was terrified, TODAY THE ZOMBIFIED PUBLIC IS UTTERLY UNAWARE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING).

The only reason I have to repeat all these things is in the hope that somebody somewhere will take my warnings seriously and warn his/her bosses. If you are that person - please do the right thing now."

Brachina

 A war.with China and Russian would effectively end the US. They can't even beat ISIS. This will continue to be a war via posturing, proxies, and Cyber attacks.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Yes, I think it is clearly a provocation.

I find it funny when whole sovereign countries bemoan that they've been "provoked".

Most progressives don't have much time for an individual who claims to have been "provoked".

"He was all up in my face with his attitude!"

"He was coming on to me, in the gay way!!"

"She texted some guy, while I was sitting right there!!!"

But when it comes to Russia, you'd think there could be no greater transgression of human rights than to blow a raspberry.

World War III:  the war that began with a "neener, neener".

NDPP

Mr. Magoo wrote:

 

But when it comes to Russia, you'd think there could be no greater transgression of human rights than to blow a raspberry.

What a brain Magoo!

(not to mention the currency, the oil market and European trade)

oh and the Boeing.

ps is that a Breedlove in your pocket or are you just trying to be friendly? Surprised

NDPP

US Deploys F-15s For Impending Conflict in Europe

https://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2015/04/04/u-s-deploys-f-15s-for-impend...

"We are here to reinforce to our allies that the security of Europe is a priority for the US."

 

Russia Boosts Air Defense in Face of US Prompt Global Strike Capacity

http://rt.com/news/246869-global-strike-missile-defense

"Russia takes steps in boosting air and missile defense capabilities"

 

We Live In A State Of Military Alert

http://thesaker.is/we-live-in-a-state-of-military-alert/

"...All this indicates that Washington and Moscow are seriously considering a situation where the armies of the two nuclear superpowers come into direct contact."

 

'The United States Does Not Want A War With Russia, It Simply Feels That It Has No Choice'

http://offguardian.org/2015/04/05/the-united-states-does-not-want-a-war-...

"Ukraine has nothing to do with sovereignty, democracy or (alleged) Russian aggression.

That's all propaganda.

It's about power.

It's about imperial expansion..."

NDPP

*Must Read* : Eurasian Emporium or Nuclear War?  -  by Pepe Escobar

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/04/08/eurasian-emporium-or-nuclear-war/

"...So we're back to the EU, Russia and China, and everyone in between, all joining the greatest trade emporium in history, across the whole of Eurasia. That's what Putin proposed in Germany a few years ago, and that's what the Chinese are already doing.

And what do the neocons propose?

A nuclear war on European soil."

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

 

That's just silly.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Keep repeating that kool aid mantra, Bec. Here's the opinion of arguably the greatest living American expert on Russia today. Only John Mearsheimer could be argued to be a more outstanding expert from the US.

Quote:
"We [the US] are closer to the actual possibility of war with Russia than it has been since the Cuban Missile Crisis," Stephen Cohen said.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/analysis/20150408/1020624922.html#ixzz3Wp9ktXy3

Cohen isn't even a lefty or a socialist. All it takes is a liberal to blow you out of the water.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Russian Foreign Intelligence chief: Russia is a target because it's a cradle of a new world paradigm

This is a not bad peek at the world of a (formerly) high-ranking intelligence figure from the Russian side of things.

Quote:
- In your opinion, how will the events develop in Novorossia in the spring and summer? Will there be a new [Ukrainian] military campaign?

- Alas, the probability is very high. A year ago the idea of federalization of Ukraine was still alive. But now Kiev only wants war. Only a unitary state. For several reasons. Mainly because ideologically anti-Russian people are at the helm of the country, who are not just subordinate to Washington, but are literally funded by those forces, which hide behind the US government.

- And what does this proverbial "world government" want?

- Easier to say what they don't need: don't need a federated Ukraine, it would be a poorly controlled territory. It would be impossible to open military bases, install new air defense systems. And such plans exist. From Lugansk or Kharkov the tactical cruise missiles reach beyond the Urals, where our main forces of nuclear deterrence are located. And with 100% probability they could strike silo-based and mobile-based ballistic missiles on the take-off trajectory. This area is now unreachable to them neither from Poland, nor from Turkey, nor from South-East Asia. This is the main goal. Therefore the USA will fight for Donbass to the last Ukrainian.

Of course, others have noted this as well.

Quote:
- So this is not about the shale gas deposits, which were found on this territory?

- The main strategic task - unitary Ukraine under their complete control for a fight against Russia. And shale gas or arable land - it's just a nice bonus. A side benefit. Plus a serious blow to our defense from the disruption of the ties between the defense industries of Ukraine and Russia. This is already done.

Finally:

Quote:
This is a part of the overall plan of the encirlclement and pressure on Russia, undertaken by the USA in order to overthrow President Vladimir Putin and split the country. An ordinary layman may certainly not believe that, but people who posses large amounts of information, are well aware of it.

Here is one of the key ideas: Russia attacked due to the civilizational alternative that it offers to the unipolar world of the US Empire.

Quote:
The battle is now not between Ukrainians and Russians, but a war of world systems. Some believe that they are "Tse Evropa" ("Are Europe" - Ukr.) and others - Russia. Because our country is not just a territory, it is a separate huge civilization that brought its own world paradigm to the entire world. First of all, of course, the Russian Empire as a model of the Eastern Orthodox civilization. The Bolsheviks destroyed it, but produced a new civilizational idea. Now we are at the gates of the third. And we will see it in 5-6 years.... I think that it will be a good symbiosis of the previous ideas. And our "fierce colleagues" understand this very well. Thus began to attack from all sides.

- So a joint Russian-American fight against terrorism, in particular, with ISIS - is just a fiction?

- Of course. America creates terrorists, feeds them, trains them, and then gives the command to the whole gang: "Go". They may shoot one "rabid dog" from this pack, but the rest will be incited even harder.

The following is an interesting political economic analysis. Perhaps the Russians are better for their experience with Marxism - even the Soviet version.

Quote:
- Leonid Petrovich, you think that the U.S. and American presidents are just tools. Who, then, creates the policies?

- There is a community of some virtually unknown to the society people who not only install American presidents, but determine the rules of the "Big game" for everyone. These are, in particular, transnational financial corporations. But not only them.

A reformatting of the world financial and economic system is taking place. There is an obvious attempt to rethink the entire structure of capitalism, without abandoning it. Foreign policy changes dramatically. The US suddenly dumped Israel - their main ally in the Middle East for the sake of improving relations with Iran. Why is Tehran now more needed and more important than Tel Aviv? Because it is in the zone of the encirclement of Russia. These shadow forces set the task of elilmination of our country as a serious player on the world stage. After all, Russia carries a civilizational alternative to the entire united West.

Moreover, the world is experiencing an explosive growth of anti-American sentiment. Hungary, where the conservative right-wing forces are in power, and the leftists in  Greece - diametrically opposite forces - practically came together and revolted against the dictate of the United States on the Old continent. The revolt is boiling in Italy, Austria, France and so on. If Russia can hold on, then processes will surface in Europe, which are detrimental to the forces, aspiring for world domination. And they know it.

A nice contrast to the overblown nonsense by so-called analysts over here who seem to be simply cheerleaders of death and war. The last quote draws attention to the difference between organizations like the Russian FSB and the US CIA. The former, intelligence. The latter, intelligence is only a small part of its activities. The CIA kills people.

Quote:
- Are you exaggerating about the physical elimination?

- Not at all. The US Central Intelligence Agency - is not even an intelligence service in terms of the level of its tasks. The KGB or SVR - are classic intelligence agencies: collecting information and reporting to the leadership of the country. At the CIA these traditional intelligence activities are at the end of the task list. The main ones - are elimination, including physical, of political figures and the organization of coups. And they do it in real time.

After the sinking of the "Kursk" submarine the CIA Director George Tenet paid us a visit from Romania. I was tasked with meeting him at the airport. Tenet did not come out of the plane for a long time, but the ramp was open, and I was able to peak inside of his "Hercules". It was a flying command post, computer operation center, fully packed with equipment and communication systems, which can track and model the situation around the world. Accompanying delegation - twenty people. We have been flying on regular flights in groups of 2-5 people. As they say, feel the difference.

Feel the difference.

 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

It's all Russian spin attempting to set up the justification for Russia's next military move based on it being surrounded by NATO and some imaginary army big enough to invade it. That and the claims of "ethnic" whatever to justify miliary intervention. You and your buddies here have drank that kool aid long ago.

It isn't lefties, socialists, progressives or liberals who are spouting all this Russia propaganda here; it's you anti imperialism at any cost obsessive's.  

Slumberjack

I'll be glad to see the collapse of the american world system and its violence.  Hopefully it isn't replaced by something similar or worse, but that's a chance long overdue.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

That difference between the [almost routine] assassinations and killings by the CIA and the more restricted intelligence function that such agencies play in other countries - and the sheer, brutal magnitude of the daily US slaughter - really draws attention to a significant difference between the US Empire and any other "pretenders". It also shows clearly the continuing brutal threat of the US regime, drenched in blood, and gorging on human carcasses.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Yeah, you guys keep thinking what would replace the USA, should it happen, would be any better.

Anyways you all have a good weekend...

6079_Smith_W

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

it's you anti imperialism at any cost obsessive's.  

Well one brand of imperialism, anyway.

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

A cannibal would not be worse. Right now we have a cannibal with a very large appetite. This cannibal can't be bothered to count its victims. Indeed - its very own casualties are hidden under the cover of darkness, flown in and hidden very skillfully.

As for its victims eg Iraquis ... the USA makes sure that no proper body count is possible. Truly, a monster. This is a regime that bombs and then waits a bit ... so they can bomb the health care workers who come to collect the bodies.

 

NDPP

The Kremlin and the Neocons  -  by Ray McGovern

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/04/15/the-kremlin-and-the-neocons/

"...Despite the debacle in Iraq and elsewhere, the neocon 'crazies' still exercise huge influence in Establishment Washington. [Not to mention 'progressive' Canada] Thus, the question now becomes whether, with Russia far more stable and much stronger, the 'crazies' are prepared to risk military escalation with Russia over Ukraine, what retired US diplomat William R Polk deemed a potentially dangerous nuclear confrontation, a 'Cuban Missile Crisis in reverse.?'

NDPP

Why We Must Return to the US-Russia Parity Principle  -  by Stephen F Cohen

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41562.htm

"When I spoke at this forum nine months ago, in June 2014, I warned that the Ukrainian crisis was the worst US-Russian confrontation in many decades. It had already plunged us into a new (or renewed) Cold War potentially even more perilous that its forty-year US-Soviet predecessor because the epicenter of this one was on Russia's borders;

because it lacked the stabilizing rules developed during the preceding Cold War; and because, unlike before, there was no significant opposition to it in the American political-media establishment*. I also warned that we might soon be closer to actual war with Russia than we had been since the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962.

I regret to say that today the crisis is even worse..."

* or Canada's

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

A ground war with Russia would be just as idiotic now as it would have been in any of the past decades to 1945.

There may be Curtis LeMay types in the Pentagon who want to start bombing in 5 minutes. America extends power by its threat of a first strike, which is the LeMay doctrine in a nutshell. And yes, you will run into millions of idiotic armchair generals in the United States who think they can win a ground war with Russia.

There are however the vast majority of Americans (whose ranks can reach as high as the Oval Office) who restrain such primal urges. LeMay, for example, said to bomb Cuba, and Kennedy said that a naval blockade would do. Many plans were made to invade Cuba, but they were all stopped in official Washington. Cuba existed, and now relations are being normalized. This was 90 miles off the coast of Florida.

Some of us look at other than doom scenarios. This is not to grant that such doom scenarios are impossible. But on the positive side, a deal with Iran could mean a deal with Russia. Tehran would be a good place for talks with Russia, as it has been in the past.

The EU-Russia-China trading bloc is too much of an opportunity for the world, to be screwed up by some stupid war. China wants to build a high-speed rail link which will cut the trip from Beijing to Moscow from 7 to 2 days. I don't think China is going to stand idly by if the US launches an illegal attack on Russia on its western front.

The war-mongering right-wing American types are losing political ascendancy, yet many of them still hold on to minor levers of power. Obama will not instigate such a war. Clinton, however, is much more of a war monger, so if it does get worse with Russia it will likely be after Inauguration Day in 2017. Any war with Russia would escalate to a nuclear situation, so I think the chances of it starting in the first place are very slim.

This fear of a giant war with Russia could be a huge troll. There are people who are using Marxist, Stalinist, and Soviet chauvanist and revisionist propaganda and their opposites to raise fear levels.

Slumberjack

montrealer58 wrote:
Obama will not instigate such a war.

Because he's been such a peace loving chap all along?  You know, at this stage of the game, the whole hope and change bit should be seen as the farce that it always was.  Why do people continue giving this mass murderer-in-chief the benefit of the doubt?

Rikardo

Montreal58's remarks are spot on by me. But many warmongers in USA are not "right-wing" They're Democrats like Clinton, Susan Rice, Samantha Power, Anne-Marie Slaughter

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

montrealer58 wrote:
America extends power by its threat of a first strike, which is the LeMay doctrine in a nutshell.

This is official doctrine. The use of a first strike nuclear attack by the USA is reflected in the ABM weapons placed in Europe, aimed at Russia, with a fig leaf of "explanation" that Iran (formerly) or "terrorists" (currently) are being aimed at. There are many other such policy matters, and public statements, over many years, even in such simple remarks as those by the current President who, naiively, states that the USA is the only indispensable country and that, therefore, all other countries are expendable. This claim, that others are expendable, has been proved over and over: in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Libya, in Yugoslavia, now in Yemen, perhaps in Syria, and the list just goes on and on.

Quote:
There are however the vast majority of Americans (whose ranks can reach as high as the Oval Office) who restrain such primal urges.

Yes, there are other voices, outside the MIC, but as Stephen Cohen has recently pointed out, there is not really any more "debate" about Russia, eg, in official circles, and the more healthy US traditions in public debate have been silenced.

Quote:
LeMay, for example, said to bomb Cuba, and Kennedy said that a naval blockade would do. Many plans were made to invade Cuba, but they were all stopped in official Washington.

Bay of Pigs? Excuse me?

Quote:
Some of us look at other than doom scenarios. This is not to grant that such doom scenarios are impossible. But on the positive side, a deal with Iran could mean a deal with Russia. Tehran would be a good place for talks with Russia, as it has been in the past.

Iran-US-Russia relations are more complicated than you are describing here.

Quote:
The EU-Russia-China trading bloc is too much of an opportunity for the world, to be screwed up by some stupid war. China wants to build a high-speed rail link which will cut the trip from Beijing to Moscow from 7 to 2 days. I don't think China is going to stand idly by if the US launches an illegal attack on Russia on its western front.

China is highly conscious that they are next, after Russia. In fact, the current US "pivot" to Asia, and sabre-rattling towards China are more long term preparations for just that. John Pilger, the great documentary film maker, is actually making a film about the US plans to attack China. I'm sure it will be a very factual and brilliant film when it comes out.

Quote:
This fear of a giant war with Russia could be a huge troll. There are people who are using Marxist, Stalinist, and Soviet chauvanist and revisionist propaganda and their opposites to raise fear levels.

Stephen Cohen and many other Russia experts from the USA are drawing attention to the silencing of views that differ from the dominant narrative. The bogey monsters are being trotted out and it's hardly unreasonable to draw attention to what is currently going on.

6079_Smith_W

montrealer58 wrote:

This fear of a giant war with Russia could be a huge troll. There are people who are using Marxist, Stalinist, and Soviet chauvanist and revisionist propaganda and their opposites to raise fear levels.

Yup.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Yeah, so Stephen Cohen, John Mearsheimer, our own Canadian Patrick Armstrong, and the enormous number of dissident intellectuals in the USA and Canada are all Marxist, Stalinist or Sov nostalgists, etc.  ??

What about conservatives like Paul Craig Roberts?

You guys would do better shouting about Reds under the bed. They say distractions are highly effective.

NDPP

The Crimes of Others: Noam Chomsky in Conversation

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/29643-the-crimes-of-others

Stephen Cohen has argued that we're closer to war with Russia than we have been since the Cuban missile crisis. Do you think he's overstating the crisis in Ukraine?

Noam Chomsky;

"I don't think so.

I mean the government that came in after the coup - the parliament voted almost unanimously to pursue membership in NATO. As Cohen and many others have pointed out, that is something utterly intolerable to any Russian leader. It's kind of as if the Warsaw Pact had taken over South America and was now going to include Mexico and Canada. So, yeah, that's serious.

It's interesting the way Putin is treated. I think it is maybe in the same ME Journal I read recently, talking about supporting the US position on the Ukraine, and some serious person saying this will be opposed by North Korea, the Islamic State and Stephen Cohen.

*To question the US position on Ukraine means you will receive threats from Stalinist apologists and get a bitter pronounciation of dismissal and ridicule.

It's serious. I mean look, Gorbachev agreed to the unification of Germany - and even its incorporation with NATO, which is an amazing concession if you look at history. But there was a quid pro quo: that NATO would 'not expand one inch to the east,' that was the phrase, meaning to East Germany.

Once NATO had expanded to East Germany, Gorbachev was infuriated. He was informed by the Bush 1 administration that it was only a verbal promise. It wasn't on paper, and the implication is if you're dumb enough to accept a gentleman's agreement with us, that's your problem.

Then Clinton came in, expanded NATO to the borders of Russia. And now it's gone further, even to Ukraine, which is right at the heart of, apart from historical connections, of Russian geo-strategic concerns. That's very serious.

[There is] not only little coverage but what there is, is insane. I mean it's all about what a lunatic Putin is. THere's an article in one of the psychology journals about how he must have Asperger's or some other articles about how he has brain damage.

I mean, you can like him or not, but his position is perfectly understandable..."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Could America Win a Nuclear War Against Russia?

During the Cold War the US was ready to sacrifice 40 million Americans to destroy Russia

Mihajlo Doknic wrote:
Chills ran down my spine while reading the sober explanations of Kissinger and Kahn about the different scenarios of nuclear war and the tables, listing the numbers of the immediate dead, the mid-term dead, the dead from long-term sufferings, the injured, the contaminated, the survivors, the radiation effects and other devastating consequences of a nuclear war, are still engraved in my memory. The suggestion by Kahn to feed the elderly with contaminated food, for their life expectancy would not exceed the time it would take them to die as a consequence of contaminated food, took my notion of cynicism to a new level.

NDPP

US-NATO Antics in the Nuclear Playground

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/04/17/us-nato-antics-in-the-nuclear-pla...

"...The anti-Russia spy antics of the US are fully in line with the war-talk of Breedlove and his NATO colleagues who are beavering away in their brand new billion dollar combat palace in Brussels to justify existence and expansion of their war-machine.

Russia's actions have been propagandized accordingly, and the US spy flights are intended to provoke Moscow into taking action which can be used to escalate tension yet further.

It would all be childishly funny were it not for the fact that Breedlove and his people are playing with the future of Europe and indeed the world.

They are leading us to the nuclear threshold and must be reined in before they stumble into ultimate confrontation..."

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

This Breedlove fellow sounds like a real life Buck Turgidson.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Michael Moriarity wrote:
This Breedlove fellow sounds like a real life Buck Turgidson.

You might be interested to know that

"[Herman] Kahn and his book [On Thermonuclear War] inspired Stanley Kubrick to produce Dr. Strangelove. After he had read Kahn’s book he also had some interviews with him in order to study the possible consequences of a nuclear war."

See "Could America Win a Nuclear War Against Russia?" by Mihajlo Doknic for the online story where the above quote comes from. I think that the insanity of the era in which Kubrick was living in is resembling the present historical moment more and more.

More recently, Professor Stephen Cohen in Part 1 of his 2-part Salon.com interview compares the demonization of Russian President Putin to a heroin addict trying to get his fix ...

Quote:
...the demonization of Putin has become an institution in America. It is literally a political institution that prevents the kind of discussion that you and I are having.

Kissinger had the same thought. He wrote, last year, I think, “The demonization of Putin is not a policy. It’s an alibi for not having a policy.” That’s half correct. It’s much worse now, because they did have a policy. I think the “policy” growing in some minds was how to get rid of Putin.

Says Cohen:

Quote:
I wrote an article in, I think, 2012 called the “The Demonization of Putin,” arguing that there is very little basis for many of the allegations made against Putin, and that the net result was to make rational analysis in Washington on Russian affairs at home and abroad impossible, because it was all filtered through this demonization. If we didn’t stop, I argued, it was only going to get worse to the point where we would become like heroin addicts at fix time, unable to think about anything except our obsession with Putin. We couldn’t think about other issues. This has now happened fully. The article was turned down by the New York Times, and an editor I knew at Reuters published it on Reuters.com.

It really is getting to be Buck Turgidson on a grand scale. And we all know where that ended up in the fictional horror story by Kubrick.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

I remember reading Herman Kahn's book "Thinking about the Unthinkable" in the 1960s. I was horrified by the matter of fact way this disgusting little monster of a man could write about millions of deaths as though they were simply numbers. I also have great respect for Prof. Cohen, and I seek out his opinions on Russia whenever I can.

bekayne

Michael Moriarity wrote:

I remember reading Herman Kahn's book "Thinking about the Unthinkable" in the 1960s. I was horrified by the matter of fact way this disgusting little monster of a man could write about millions of deaths as though they were simply numbers.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Yes, I knew he was physically large, my meaning was that he was small approaching nonexistent spiritually.

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