Venezuela right-wing opposition wins control of National Assembly by a landslide

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WWWTT

Sorry sir it should read Mr Magoo

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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i think what Ken Burch was doing was giving this thread a “bump”

I think he was giving it an "un-bump".

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I’ll let you know when we start talking about chickens again or food in general. You can jump in at that time and drift the thread right into the cooking with Mr  McGoo show.

No matter how much I might disagree with someone here on babble, I do try to spell their name right, since I'm literate and it's easy.

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Sorry brother but these threads are getting too boring and I thought I’d add some humorous

Let us know when you do.

 

WWWTT

Lol sorry brother but I’m still chuckling.  I chose not to edit my grammar error because I’m using the iPhone and it’s a pain in the but.  

But back to the topic

i read the Venezuela is no longer using the petro buck-green back to sell its oil in retaliation to sanctions. 

im sure this would make BRICS happy.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

But was it unreasonable of them to expect to be able to hold the recall referendum that the Constitution promised?

It was simply something that didn't need to be done.  Maduro had won a full term, they had their majority in Congress...they should have just negotiated with the guy, rather than treating him as though he had no right to be in office.  There was no chance that attempting to recall Maduro-the continuation of the canard that neither he nor Chavez were legitimately holding office, something the "0pposition" had been doing even when the PSUV was being re-elected by landslide majorities-could do anything to improve the situation.

Why couldn't they just accept his legitimacy in office and act as a loyal opposition?

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

Mr. Magoo wrote:

But was it unreasonable of them to expect to be able to hold the recall referendum that the Constitution promised?

It was simply something that didn't need to be done.  Maduro had won a full term, they had their majority in Congress...they should have just negotiated with the guy, rather than treating him as though he had no right to be in office.  There was no chance that attempting to recall Maduro-the continuation of the canard that neither he nor Chavez were legitimately holding office, something the "0pposition" had been doing even when the PSUV was being re-elected by landslide majorities-could do anything to improve the situation.

Why couldn't they just accept his legitimacy in office and act as a loyal opposition?

I think this is a pretty weak argument. If the constitution provides a procedure for presidential recall, and that procedure is followed by an opposition group, then there should be a recall vote. It isn't optional, and it is irrelevant whether the proponents of the recall are nice or well-motivated. Saying "they didn't need to do this" is no answer.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

The motivations of the recall proponents are at least somewhat relevant-they are the leaders of the old political establishmet, the ones who cheered when the "Caracazo" massacre of trade unionists who were protesting an austerity budget, took place.

It's a valid thing for the PSUV to want to make sure that workers aren't going to be executed in the streets again.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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It's a valid thing for the PSUV to want to make sure that workers aren't going to be executed in the streets again.

More valid than the Constitution?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

If the Constitution is defended and the result is more caracazos, what use is the Constitution?  If Maduro were removed and the immediate result were a new Venezuelan government executing workers in the streets, nothing that happened after that could ever be considered free or democratic.  There might be "elections", but "elections", by themselves, aren't anything at all.

Look at Poland and Hungary-all their "free elections" did was to lead those countries to the semi-fascist situations they are in now.   Do you honestly think elections and a constitution are of any use to people trying to hold off the establishmet of permanent Catholic dictatorships, states where life is going to basically come to a stop for the rest of eternity?

If Maduro falls, with his flaws, the first thing they "opposition" will do is impose massive price hikes on food and fuel-a change that can't lead to any improvements even for the long-term.  Then, they'll abolish the community councils, the only genuinely democratic governmental institution in Venezuela.  Yes, a bourgois, economic royalist constitution in which hope doesn't exist for anyone but the light-skinned elite will have been defended...but so what?  So...freaking...what?  It will be a constitution for a country where there is no life and the people are nothing.  There will be nothing in any of it for any progressive or humane person to support, and no chance ever again to change anything.  It will just all be over.  But you'll be fine with history being brought to an artificial end, because all that matters is "the Constitution".  

You'll probably get your way...and then when the country has gone full Pinochet, which has always been the "opposition"s goal, what will you say then?  

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
If Maduro were removed and the immediate result were a new Venezuelan government executing workers in the streets, nothing that happened after that could ever be considered free or democratic.

Is that your argument?  That if the opposition were ever to make laws as the voters mandated them to then the inevitable conclusion of this would be a repeat of 28 years ago?

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If Maduro falls, with his flaws, the first thing they "opposition" will do is impose massive price hikes on food and fuel-a change that can't lead to any improvements even for the long-term.  Then, they'll abolish the community councils, the only genuinely democratic governmental institution in Venezuela.

They wouldn't be "price hikes".  They would be "market prices", after years of price control that's destroyed any incentive to produce anything other than sticky and sulphurous crude.

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Yes, a bourgois, economic royalist constitution in which hope doesn't exist for anyone but the light-skinned elite will have been defended...but so what? 

Is that all the Constitution is?

I'm asking because Chavez wrote it.

 

NDPP

(2016) Opposition Must Collect 20% of Recall Referendum Signatures Per State

https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/12726?page=2

 

Venezuela's Maduro: Agreement With Opposition '95% Complete'

https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/13426

josh

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

Mr. Magoo wrote:

But was it unreasonable of them to expect to be able to hold the recall referendum that the Constitution promised?

It was simply something that didn't need to be done.  Maduro had won a full term, they had their majority in Congress...they should have just negotiated with the guy, rather than treating him as though he had no right to be in office.  There was no chance that attempting to recall Maduro-the continuation of the canard that neither he nor Chavez were legitimately holding office, something the "0pposition" had been doing even when the PSUV was being re-elected by landslide majorities-could do anything to improve the situation.

Why couldn't they just accept his legitimacy in office and act as a loyal opposition?

I think this is a pretty weak argument. If the constitution provides a procedure for presidential recall, and that procedure is followed by an opposition group, then there should be a recall vote. It isn't optional, and it is irrelevant whether the proponents of the recall are nice or well-motivated. Saying "they didn't need to do this" is no answer.

Agree.

NDPP

Venezuela's FM on Media Manipulation

https://youtu.be/YUo6WByfSE0

"We speak to Venezuela's FM, Jorge Arreaza."

 

Venezuela Regional Elections

https://twitter.com/telesurenglish/status/919773096613171200

"PSUV wins 17 of 23 states. Highest voter turnout in 15 years. The people have chosen Chavismo."

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