Venezuela right-wing opposition wins control of National Assembly by a landslide

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WWWTT

Sorry sir it should read Mr Magoo

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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i think what Ken Burch was doing was giving this thread a “bump”

I think he was giving it an "un-bump".

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I’ll let you know when we start talking about chickens again or food in general. You can jump in at that time and drift the thread right into the cooking with Mr  McGoo show.

No matter how much I might disagree with someone here on babble, I do try to spell their name right, since I'm literate and it's easy.

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Sorry brother but these threads are getting too boring and I thought I’d add some humorous

Let us know when you do.

 

WWWTT

Lol sorry brother but I’m still chuckling.  I chose not to edit my grammar error because I’m using the iPhone and it’s a pain in the but.  

But back to the topic

i read the Venezuela is no longer using the petro buck-green back to sell its oil in retaliation to sanctions. 

im sure this would make BRICS happy.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

But was it unreasonable of them to expect to be able to hold the recall referendum that the Constitution promised?

It was simply something that didn't need to be done.  Maduro had won a full term, they had their majority in Congress...they should have just negotiated with the guy, rather than treating him as though he had no right to be in office.  There was no chance that attempting to recall Maduro-the continuation of the canard that neither he nor Chavez were legitimately holding office, something the "0pposition" had been doing even when the PSUV was being re-elected by landslide majorities-could do anything to improve the situation.

Why couldn't they just accept his legitimacy in office and act as a loyal opposition?

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

Mr. Magoo wrote:

But was it unreasonable of them to expect to be able to hold the recall referendum that the Constitution promised?

It was simply something that didn't need to be done.  Maduro had won a full term, they had their majority in Congress...they should have just negotiated with the guy, rather than treating him as though he had no right to be in office.  There was no chance that attempting to recall Maduro-the continuation of the canard that neither he nor Chavez were legitimately holding office, something the "0pposition" had been doing even when the PSUV was being re-elected by landslide majorities-could do anything to improve the situation.

Why couldn't they just accept his legitimacy in office and act as a loyal opposition?

I think this is a pretty weak argument. If the constitution provides a procedure for presidential recall, and that procedure is followed by an opposition group, then there should be a recall vote. It isn't optional, and it is irrelevant whether the proponents of the recall are nice or well-motivated. Saying "they didn't need to do this" is no answer.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

The motivations of the recall proponents are at least somewhat relevant-they are the leaders of the old political establishmet, the ones who cheered when the "Caracazo" massacre of trade unionists who were protesting an austerity budget, took place.

It's a valid thing for the PSUV to want to make sure that workers aren't going to be executed in the streets again.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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It's a valid thing for the PSUV to want to make sure that workers aren't going to be executed in the streets again.

More valid than the Constitution?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

If the Constitution is defended and the result is more caracazos, what use is the Constitution?  If Maduro were removed and the immediate result were a new Venezuelan government executing workers in the streets, nothing that happened after that could ever be considered free or democratic.  There might be "elections", but "elections", by themselves, aren't anything at all.

Look at Poland and Hungary-all their "free elections" did was to lead those countries to the semi-fascist situations they are in now.   Do you honestly think elections and a constitution are of any use to people trying to hold off the establishmet of permanent Catholic dictatorships, states where life is going to basically come to a stop for the rest of eternity?

If Maduro falls, with his flaws, the first thing they "opposition" will do is impose massive price hikes on food and fuel-a change that can't lead to any improvements even for the long-term.  Then, they'll abolish the community councils, the only genuinely democratic governmental institution in Venezuela.  Yes, a bourgois, economic royalist constitution in which hope doesn't exist for anyone but the light-skinned elite will have been defended...but so what?  So...freaking...what?  It will be a constitution for a country where there is no life and the people are nothing.  There will be nothing in any of it for any progressive or humane person to support, and no chance ever again to change anything.  It will just all be over.  But you'll be fine with history being brought to an artificial end, because all that matters is "the Constitution".  

You'll probably get your way...and then when the country has gone full Pinochet, which has always been the "opposition"s goal, what will you say then?  

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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If Maduro were removed and the immediate result were a new Venezuelan government executing workers in the streets, nothing that happened after that could ever be considered free or democratic.

Is that your argument?  That if the opposition were ever to make laws as the voters mandated them to then the inevitable conclusion of this would be a repeat of 28 years ago?

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If Maduro falls, with his flaws, the first thing they "opposition" will do is impose massive price hikes on food and fuel-a change that can't lead to any improvements even for the long-term.  Then, they'll abolish the community councils, the only genuinely democratic governmental institution in Venezuela.

They wouldn't be "price hikes".  They would be "market prices", after years of price control that's destroyed any incentive to produce anything other than sticky and sulphurous crude.

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Yes, a bourgois, economic royalist constitution in which hope doesn't exist for anyone but the light-skinned elite will have been defended...but so what? 

Is that all the Constitution is?

I'm asking because Chavez wrote it.

 

NDPP

(2016) Opposition Must Collect 20% of Recall Referendum Signatures Per State

https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/12726?page=2

 

Venezuela's Maduro: Agreement With Opposition '95% Complete'

https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/13426

josh

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

Mr. Magoo wrote:

But was it unreasonable of them to expect to be able to hold the recall referendum that the Constitution promised?

It was simply something that didn't need to be done.  Maduro had won a full term, they had their majority in Congress...they should have just negotiated with the guy, rather than treating him as though he had no right to be in office.  There was no chance that attempting to recall Maduro-the continuation of the canard that neither he nor Chavez were legitimately holding office, something the "0pposition" had been doing even when the PSUV was being re-elected by landslide majorities-could do anything to improve the situation.

Why couldn't they just accept his legitimacy in office and act as a loyal opposition?

I think this is a pretty weak argument. If the constitution provides a procedure for presidential recall, and that procedure is followed by an opposition group, then there should be a recall vote. It isn't optional, and it is irrelevant whether the proponents of the recall are nice or well-motivated. Saying "they didn't need to do this" is no answer.

Agree.

NDPP

Venezuela's FM on Media Manipulation

https://youtu.be/YUo6WByfSE0

"We speak to Venezuela's FM, Jorge Arreaza."

 

Venezuela Regional Elections

https://twitter.com/telesurenglish/status/919773096613171200

"PSUV wins 17 of 23 states. Highest voter turnout in 15 years. The people have chosen Chavismo."

NDPP

Venezuela Regional Elections

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/10/20/venezuela-regional-elections-cha...

"Chavismo in triumph, opposition in disarray and media in denial..."

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Michael Moriarity wrote:

I think this is a pretty weak argument. If the constitution provides a procedure for presidential recall, and that procedure is followed by an opposition group, then there should be a recall vote. It isn't optional, and it is irrelevant whether the proponents of the recall are nice or well-motivated. Saying "they didn't need to do this" is no answer.

Unfortunately for your argument the opposition did not follow the rules when they where trying to get the 1% in each region. So the Electoral Commission had every right and duty to delay the procedure and tell them to start again. 

First it was cheating in the general elections to try and get a super majority to overturn the Consitituion then it was cheating in a referendum attempt to overturn the Presedential election. The opposition is truly a sight to behold. Did I mention that they also advocate foreign interfernce in their internal eleciton processes and that is usually considered treason. Of course a US politician talking to a Russian diplomat is a outrage but a Venezualn politician on their knees in Washington begging for a soft coup is democracy in action.

Unlike on babble with "progressive" Canadians the majority of Venezualan voters have clearly rejected the US backed opposition.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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Unfortunately for your argument the opposition did not follow the rules when they where trying to get the 1% in each region. So the Electoral Commission had every right and duty to delay the procedure and tell them to start again.

If I recall correctly, the EC had "questions" about 1/10th of the number of "surplus" votes.  In other words, even if they were correct that those 10% of votes were fraudulent, there was still plenty more uncontested votes to fill the quota.

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First it was cheating in the general elections to try and get a super majority to overturn the Consitituion then it was cheating in a referendum attempt to overturn the Presedential election. The opposition is truly a sight to behold.

I know, right?  No matter what they do, they can't seem to stop themselves from cheating, says the government-friendly EC.

This could be a totally different discussion if the Venezuelan Electoral Commission (the CNE) were in any way at arm's length from the current government.  But, please.

NDPP

Toeing Trump's Line, Canada Backs Baseless Fraud Allegations in Venezuela

https://buff.ly/2xVoW5K

"Under the leadership of Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland, the Canadian government of Justin Trudeau has been a major player in the Lima Group, composed of governments in the region who oppose that Maduro government."

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Maduro warns of repeat elections in states won by opposition

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Venezuelan state elections may be repeated in the five states won by the opposition if the governors-elect continue to refuse to be sworn in by a controversial pro-government legislative superbody, President Nicolas Maduro warned on Friday.

...

The opposition says that by law, the oath must be taken before regional parliaments and not before the Constituent Assembly, but so far none of their candidates have undergone that process and formally assumed their roles.

Watch for a brand new law, made retroactive.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

The local election results do put the "Maduro MUST be subject to recall" thing to rest, though.  They are an overwhelming rejection of the MUD.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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They are an overwhelming rejection of the MUD.

Then Maduro has even LESS reason to forbid the referendum.  Not that he had a plausible one before this.

NDPP

Canada Considering More Venezuela Sanctions, Freeland Says

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/venezuela-freeland-canada-1.4374732

"If necessary, we must put added pressure on the Maduro regime by taking concrete steps to further isolate it from the international community, she said. Freeland added that Canada was mulling a second round of sanctions against Venezuela officials. 'Other countries should consider doing so as well,' she said."

Yet the Nazi, coup-installed US puppet billionaire Poroshenko regime in Kiev, her 'friend', 'is the best government Ukraine has had in its entire history.' Compare and contrast.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

For those who might wonder what these sanctions are, and how they'd punish the ordinary Venezuelan who's just trying to get by, Canada has endorsed sanctions against 40 senior government officials.  I guess they can't do business in Canada!

Kind of like the crippling sanctions against DPRK/North Korea that prevented party brass from importing luxury cars and $3000 wristwatches.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

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They are an overwhelming rejection of the MUD.

Then Maduro has even LESS reason to forbid the referendum.  Not that he had a plausible one before this.

No...the results prove that Venezuelans don't want to vote on recalling Maduro...that the people have moved past that.  Why are you still so fixated on having that referendum?  If the voters no longer support the MUD, what is the point?   

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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No...the results prove that Venezuelans don't want to vote on recalling Maduro...that the people have moved past that.

So, before these latest elections you felt that there was no need for a recall referendum.  And after these latest elections you believe there is no need for a recall referendum.

Well, you certainly win, Ken.  At this point there will surely be no recall referendum.  Even though governor elections (analagous to Provincial elections) aren't the same as federal elections.

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If the voters no longer support the MUD, what is the point?

If they no longer support an alternative then Venezuela should look forward to sailing very calm seas, yes?  They're all happy now, yes?  But we should probably wait a little to declare an "all clear", just in case none of these governors have tonnes of food and medicine and such up their sleeve.  But certainly if the people are all content then crisis averted.

 

NDPP

Intervention Seeking Lima Group Hopes To Further 'Isolate Venezuela'

https://t.co/0X56AwEQgl

"Venezuelan Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza reported by saying Canada's criticisms amounted to the government's 'permanent' and 'systematic interference' in the affairs of the Caribbean country. In response to the Lima Group's meeting, several Venezuelan solidarity groups in Toronto staged public protests."

NDPP

Freeland Steps Up Diplomatic Pressure on Venezuela, Warns of Refugee Crisis

https://t.co/iZTBnh2ZJb

"Freeland said Monday that support from allies would help pressure Venezuela further. 'So I think it is an area where Canada needs to be very engaged...we'd be delighted to see the EU joining us in applying pressure on the government of Venezuela,' Freeland said."

A nasty piece of work this..

NDPP

Trudeau Covers For Trump On Venezuela - And the CBC Covers For Trudeau     -    by Joe Emersberger

https://zcomm.org/zblogs/trudeau-covers-for-trump-on-venezuela-and-the-c...

"Freeland makes a subtle appeal to xenophobia to justify Canada's aping of Trump and other right-wing governmets in the region who want to see Venezuela's government overthrown. Fortunately for Freeland, she can expect zero resistance from other political parties or Canada's media.

If Canada had a vibrant press and at least one opposition leader with integrity, Freeland's gross hypocrisy would be exposed. At present, she and Trudeau have nothing to worry about..."

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

It would be ten times as gross if she'd proposed "solidarity" with Venezuela on the grounds that Maduro and PSUV are acting honestly and in good faith.

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If Canada had a vibrant press...

Better, in this case, to wish one for Venezuela.  The state press, however, assures us all that everything is awesome and the people are super happy.

NDPP

Canada Slaps 52 People With Magnitsky Law Sanctions

http://ipolitics.ca/2017/11/03/canada-slaps-52-people-with-magnitsky-law...

"The sanctions against the 19 individuals from Venezuela are in response to acts of significant corruption and human rights violations..."

 

[Guardians of The Magnitsky Myth]

https://www.newcoldwar.org/guardians-of-the-magnitsky-myth/

"In pursuit of Russia-gate..."

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Protesters crash U of T forum on Venezuelan crisis

A handful of protesters walked on stage at the Isabel Bader Theatre during a panel on the crisis in Venezuela titled “Resolving the Venezuelan Crisis: Following the Meeting of the Lima Group of Foreign Ministers in Toronto” on October 26.

The protesters, who were demonstrating against “Canadian interventionism” in the country, held signs that read, “Hands Off Venezuela” and “Canada + OAS, Stop the Plunder! Out of Venezuela,” blocking audience members from viewing the panel. In response to the protest, dozens of audience members stood up and sang the Venezuelan national anthem. The protesters were later escorted out of the theatre by U of T Campus Police.

Protesters crash U of T forum on Venezuelan crisis

NDPP

Ottawa's Sanctions, Support for Venezuelan Opposition Constitute Regime Change     -    by Yves Engler

https://buff.ly/2z9AEcP

"Notwithstanding her government's violation of the UN and Organization of American States' charters in Venezuela, Freeland's claim that Ottawa doesnt engage in 'regime change' is laughable. Is she unaware that a Canadian General commanded the NATO force, which involved fighter jets, naval vessels and special forces, that killed Muammar Gaddafi in Libya six years ago?

Sticking to contexts more directly applicable to the situation in Venezuela, Ottawa has repeatedly endorsed US-backed military coups against progressive elected leaders..."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Engler does an OK job of retelling the stories of two unfortunate Canadian interventions, but never really seems to meaningfully link those to some lukewarm sanctions against a small handful of Venezuelan elites, nevermind any outright "regime change".

So a few Venezuelan bigwigs can't visit Canada, and their Canadian assets are frozen (shares in Tim Hortons?  Or what, specifically, are we talking about here?).

I'm sure the government will topple before daybreak.  Mission Accomplished!

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

US Sanctions on Venezuela: 'Attempt to Destroy the Economy'

Due to late debt payments, credit agencies downgraded Venezuela's debt last week. Meanwhile, the finance minister of Russia announced it is providing Venezuela with $3 billion in new credit so it can make the outstanding debt payments in time and not fall into default. Part of Venezuela's credit crunch is traceable to U.S. financial sanctions, which make it practically impossible for Venezuela to restructure its outstanding debt because U.S. investors are now prohibited from trading in Venezuelan bonds.

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Another ironic result also of this policy is that the value of Venezuela's bonds have plummeted so far that Torino Capital estimates that the total foreign debt, what you can call foreign debt, it's owned by foreigners, for both the government and the state oil company, PDVSA, now adds up to about $16 billion. The government, if it could get that cash, could buy them back, buy these bonds out. That would be the end of their debt. Of course, Russia or China could easily finance that. There was some speculation in the media, I don't know if I would agree with it, but again it's a possibility, that the reason that the government is announcing a proposed restructuring, and having this meeting on November 13th, and leaving in charge for this meeting two people who are under U.S. sanctions, which makes it very difficult to have the restructuring, is to create the impression of a possible default in order to buy back some of those bonds very cheaply, or all of them. I don't see where they get the cash for that, but that could be done. President Correa did something similar back in 2007. When he defaulted, actually, he did default on the debt, and was able to buy back a lot of the bonds at a very low price and therefore get rid of some of their debt very cheaply. About a third of their foreign debt was gone. I think that would be one solution to the debt crisis, if the government could somehow come up with this kind of cash.

NDPP

TRNN: US Sanctions on Venezuela: 'Attempt To Destroy the Economy' (and vid)

https://t.co/hmiwWY257V

"Venezuela's recession is making it difficult for the country to meet its debt payments, but US sanctions are making a difficult task almost impossible - explains CEPR's Mark Weisbrot. 'It really is an attempt to destroy the economy. There's no other way to describe the sanctions that the US has. It's an attempt to topple the government by further destroying the economy and preventing its recovery."

NDPP

The US Southern Command's Silent Occupation Of The Amazon

http://upsidedownworld.org/archives/international/us-southern-commands-s...

"Armed forces were concentrated from 16 countries, including Germany, CANADA, Chile, the UK, Japan and Israel...The participating armies, without a doubt will put pressure on Venezuela, a regime that opposes US interests in South America..."

NDPP

The World's Saints and Sinners According To Canada   -   by Andrew Mitrovica

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/world-saints-sinners-canada-171...

"Not surprisingly, Canada's swaggering list of sinners is dominated by easy marks: Russians, Venezuelans and South Sudanese. Most of the names on Freeland's register of alleged trespassers are largely unknown save for one, Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro. 

Clearly, Freeland didn't feel compelled to offer a morsel of evidence to back her incendiary claim that Maduro and scores of other top Venezuelan officials are mendacious human rights violators. 

Freeland's revisionism and signature condescension were greeted, almost universally, with broad applause and without so much as a lonely note of censure from Canada's so-called democratic socialists, the New Democratic Party that shares, at least theoretically, Maduro's politics. 

Curiously, Freeland's most wanted list of international miscreants did not include any senior or not-so-senior Israeli or US officials. In her cynical, myopic geopolitical calculus, Venezuela and Russia are sinners, while Israel and the US are saints..."

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Caracas Mayor's Race: Chavista Candidates Challenge PSUV to Democratize Revolution

The upcoming mayoral elections have opened a space for social movements and smaller leftist parties to contest the hegemony of the PSUV, reigniting long muted debates about inner-movement democracy and socialist strategy.

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Absent any real electoral threat from the right, the election opens a space for social movements and smaller leftist parties to contest the hegemony of the PSUV, reigniting long muted debates about inner-movement democracy and socialist strategy.

Revitalizing these dialectical tensions – both between government and people as well as party and movement – is a sin qua non for Chavismo retaking the revolutionary offensive.

The candidates

The frontrunner in the race is prominent United Socialist Party leader Erika Farias, who hopes to succeed two-term PSUV incumbent Jorge Rodriguez to become Caracas’ first-ever female mayor.

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Farias has promised to expand social programs in El Libertador, including the Local Production and Provision Committees (CLAPs), which sees the government partner with local communities to deliver food at subsidized prices house by house.

“CLAP will reach 839,000 Caracas families every 15 days,” she pledged.

In particular, she indicated that for this holiday season, a special CLAP delivery will include one of Venezuelans’ favorite Christmas dishes, ham bread, which has become extremely expensive on the private market.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Maduro taps major general to lead Venezuela's deteriorating oil industry

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Industry analysts and sources said the surprise appointment of Manuel Quevedo, a former housing minister with no known energy experience, was a bad omen for the country’s already deteriorated oil industry.

Don't hire someone with relevant experience.  Scratch the military's back.

If PDVSA doesn't suddenly rally for the win, it's the fault of those darned sanctions!!!  Certainly not because an orchestra conductor was hired to be the football coach.

NDPP

Venezuela Arrests Top Citgo Executives For Alleged Embezzlement

https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/13514

"In addition to corruption, Saab accused the executives of acting 'in the service of a foreign power against the country,' suggesting that the US government may have influenced the subsidiary's representatives..."

See also: That Time Tillerson Tried to Take On Hugo Chavez And Lost

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/12843

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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The six men were charged with willful embezzlement, association with contractors, money laundering, and criminal association during a hearing before the 30th Caracas Metropolitan Court.

Well, the First Lady's nephews were arrested importing drugs, and Chavez' daughter apparently worked lots of overtime to become a billionaire.

But when it comes to fighting the corruption that literally takes food out of the people's mouths, there can be no such thing as "too little" or "too late".

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Enter the 'petro': Venezuela to launch oil-backed cryptocurrency

Finally, poor Venezuelans will have a use for all those computers they own.

Mind you, some untraceable cryptocurrency probably could have helped those nephews!

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