War in Syria 3

572 posts / 0 new
Last post
lagatta

You are right; I'm just very upset about Syria. And the fact that these people have very, very often indulged in name-calling and accusing posters - and not just the more conservative ones - of being spokesbots for imperialism - doesn't mean we should do the same. I used to post at Feminist Current (among other feminist sites) from time to time, but that site became such an intolerant echo chamber due to certain posters that I decided not to post there any more, despite my interest in many of the issues raised there (I'm not implying agreement or disagreement with anything).

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

lagatta wrote:
The people I know who were tortured where secular leftists, not Islamists.

The Putin gang has really taken over this board.

It is entirely possible to oppose Wall Street, the Kremlin, and their pet dictators.

 

The very way you make your remarks gives you away. This is taking a position. Instead of principled support for the right of Syrians to decide their own future, for the UN-recognized government to defend itself (whatever our own personal views about said government)  you write comments as though ... you're doing some political shopping.  A little bit of this, a little bit of that. And so on.

Shopping. This is just offensive on so many levels.

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Russian President V V Putin has weighed in on the direct mortar strike on the Russian hospital in Aleppo ...

“Moscow has seen no assessment of what happened from any international organization.”

 


ikosmos ikosmos's picture

For the nonce, the SAA has suspended military actions in Aleppo to allow many thousands, trapped as human shields in the terrorist-controlled parts of the city, to escape to freedom.

Call me cynical, but I expect a direct "accidental" US/NATO airstrike on the SAA or the civilians.

Syrian Army Suspends Military Operations in Aleppo

 

Quote:
Syrian government forces have suspended “active military activities” against militants in eastern Aleppo to enable the withdrawal of civilians from the city, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has announced while speaking in Hamburg, Germany.

Lavrov was speaking on Thursday on the sidelines of a meeting of ministers from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE).

The Russian foreign minister also urged the UN special envoy to Syria, Staffan de Mistura, to “stop sabotaging” the Geneva Syria peace talks.

 

Did you get that? The Russian FM has to slap the UN representative up side the head because he keeps stoking the war. The discreet charm ...

 

Quote:
Speaking to reporters, he also expressed hope that those responsible for the recent attack on a Russian mobile hospital in western Aleppo will be brought to justice. The assault happened earlier this week and left two female paramedics dead and one chief pediatrician severely injured.

"We are just doing our job, probably not everyone likes it, and a recent targeted strike against our hospital is yet more proof of that. But I am convinced that all measures will be taken to punish those responsible, and to prevent similar [attacks] in the future," Lavrov said.

He noted that the US State Department previously expressed regret over the incident, but emphasized that “it has to clarify” all the circumstances. However, according to Foreign Minister “in cases when the Syrian government can be suspected, Americans are not clarifying anything, but are immediately heading to the microphone, demanding [the perpetrators] be punished."

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

I cannot help but suspect that NATO "advisors" (including, possibly Americans) are also trapped in Aleppo.  Now that would be a final ignimony of the NATO regimes in Syria. But we'll see. Frankly, I don't put it past the Syrians and Russians not to press the point, if true. They have other fish to fry.

There's a great deal of reconstruction to be done, and it's unlikely that the Western regimes will do much to help, without regime-change strings attached, other than sabotage and, yes, still more sabotage.

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Global Research wrote:
As everyone who follows the international news knows, the last few months have witnessed a blizzard of angry stories and complaints from Western government concerning alleged Syrian and Russian bombing of hospitals in Aleppo.

This blizzard contrasts starkly with the almost complete silence in the West about the attack on the Russian hospital in Aleppo yesterday.

The discreet charm of the Western regimes.

Mercouris points out that the Western regimes, and their obedient MSM, rely upon what are essentially Al-Qaeda sources, or sources who operate in Al-Qaeda controlled areas. The Western regimes and their obedient MSM see nothing wrong with this.Why should they? They support the terrorists and the latter's goal of the overthrow of the only secular state in the middle east.

Quote:
However, what it does mean is that the scope for Al-Qaeda to manipulate the stories is boundless.  In any war situation, the risk of accepting unconfirmed accounts of events by one party to the conflict is great. When the party in question is Al-Qaeda – a violent internationally proscribed terrorist organisation – the risk of doing so is even greater.”

About this obvious problem, nothing from the MSM. Just the same animal droppings, over and over again. It is also interesting that the US attack on Mosul in Iraq has revealed an Al-Qaeda strategy; build your HQ inside a hospital that you've taken over ... that way, the human shields protect your command centers from attack. Win win, right?

I see, upthread, the Canadian regime has added its shrill, chihuahua bark to the baying of Washington, London, Paris, Berlin, and Rome. That's really "punching above your weight" Canada. Tally ho.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Here's the joint statement that the Canadian chihuahua added its shrill yapping to ...

Quote:

Joint statement from the leaders of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom and the United States on the situation in Aleppo:

A humanitarian disaster is taking place before our very eyes. Some 200,000 civilians, including many children, in eastern Aleppo are cut off from food and medicine supplies. Aleppo is being subjected to daily bombings and artillery attacks by the Syrian regime, supported by Russia and Iran. Hospitals and schools have not been spared. Rather, they appear to be the targets of attack in an attempt to wear people down. The images of dying children are heart breaking. We condemn the actions of the Syrian regime and its foreign backers, especially Russia, for their obstruction of humanitarian aid, and strongly condemn the Syrian regime’s attacks that have devastated civilians and medical facilities and use of barrel bombs and chemical weapons.

The urgent need now is for an immediate ceasefire to allow the United Nations to get humanitarian assistance to people in eastern Aleppo and to provide humanitarian relief to those who have fled eastern Aleppo. The opposition have agreed the UN’s 4-point plan for Aleppo. The regime needs to agree the plan too. We call on the Syrian regime to do this urgently to alleviate the dire situation in Aleppo; and call on Russia and Iran to use their influence to help make this happen.

We urge all parties in Syria to adhere to international humanitarian law, including the Geneva Conventions. UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has spoken about war crimes being committed in Syria. There must not be impunity for those responsible. We call on the UN to investigate respective reports and gather evidence to hold the perpetrators of war crimes to account. We are ready to consider additional restrictive measures against individuals and entities that act for or on behalf of the Syrian regime.

At the same time, Russia is blocking the UN Security Council, which is therefore unable to do its work and put an end to the atrocities. The regime’s refusal to engage in a serious political process also highlights the unwillingness of both Russia and Iran to work for a political solution despite their assurances to the contrary. We support the efforts of the UN Special Envoy de Mistura to resume the political process through negotiations. Only a political settlement can bring peace for people in Syria.


The leaders of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, the UK and the United States gave a joint statement on the situation in Aleppo.

 

We will see that this tissue of lies will collapse when:

- these regimes refuse to help with the re-construction of Syria once the jihadists have been forced to leave, and a stony silence will prevail ...

- once the jihadists have been wiped out, they will show zero interest in Aleppo and her people, down the rabbit hole once again...

- spiteful sanctions against Syria (including those by Canada to our shame) will continue, even after and without any conflict, showing, as if it needed to be, that the aim was, is and always will be the overthrow of the elected, duly UN-recognized government of Syria ...

- and the Western MSM will lead, by the noses, their public to the next "regime change" item on the imperial menu ....

 

 

lagatta4

Shopping... "offensive on so many levels".

Yep, it is gross sexism. As if I were some kind of living Barbie doll who likes to go to "the mall" and get my nails done in one of those nail salons exploiting young Southeast Asian women...

It is, of course, also politically offensive, not only once again insinuating some affinity on my part with certain imperialist governments (anyone who knows me in real life would have a good laugh over that one) but also that those that don't parrot the line of a given camp are simply "shoppers" and dilettantes and not people who are trying to analyse the world, foster workers' internationalism and not kowtow to any power or their line.

I should find an appropriate quote from Rosa Luxemburg, but I'm too tired to do a search - believe it or not, yes, I was shopping - at three different places with a list to take advantage of specials. For FOOD.

lagatta4

By the way, I'm the same lagatta - log in problem which I'll try to remedy.

swallow swallow's picture

ikosmos wrote:

lagatta wrote:
The people I know who were tortured where secular leftists, not Islamists.

The Putin gang has really taken over this board.

It is entirely possible to oppose Wall Street, the Kremlin, and their pet dictators.

The very way you make your remarks gives you away. This is taking a position. Instead of principled support for the right of Syrians to decide their own future, for the UN-recognized government to defend itself (whatever our own personal views about said government)  you write comments as though ... you're doing some political shopping.  A little bit of this, a little bit of that. And so on.

Shopping. This is just offensive on so many levels. 

You need to stop insulting other babblers every time they have a different opinion than you. It's fucked up.

 

Rev Pesky

Meanwhile, in Mosul precisely the same thing is going on. US Air Force bombing hospitals, Iraqi Air Force killing civilians. No word from the 'leaders of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, the UK and the United States' on the situation in Mosul. I guess that's because the USA bombing hospitals is different, and Iraq killing civiians is different. 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Rev Pesky wrote:
Meanwhile, in Mosul precisely the same thing is going on. US Air Force bombing hospitals, Iraqi Air Force killing civilians. No word from the 'leaders of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, the UK and the United States' on the situation in Mosul. I guess that's because the USA bombing hospitals is different, and Iraq killing civiians is different. 

 

It's simple. When the Americans bomb civilians, or hospitals, or such, it's always an accident. When Russia does it, it's always on purpose. Anyone who says differently is a Russian "useful idiot". qed.

lagatta4

Even those of us who say it isn't an accident in either case?

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Al-Assad describes the relationship between his country and Russia. Firstly, he talks about how a subservient role is the Western description of his country, and why ...

Quote:
Question: Mr. President, allow me to move from Aleppo to international relations. So far, the West is portraying the Syrian-Russian relation as one of subordination, that Syria is a Russian satellite, and that Damascus no longer has an independent decision, for all decisions are made in Moscow. How do you respond to such claims?

President Assad: First, let’s say that the West thinks this way because it lives such a condition. You know that all Western states are now satellites of one master, America. The American maestro moves his baton and they all move in one direction, politically, militarily, or even in the media. What coincidence that all Western media across Europe and America have one narrative! What democracy and freedom! So, they live this condition of subordination. Their relationship with other states in our region is one of subordination. It is well known that most states in this region are satellites of Western states and axes, one way or another. That’s why they use this logic.

.. and some remarkable comments about Russian-Syrian relations, independent of the current Russian President ...

Quote:
As for Russia, we have dealt with many Russians recently, in addition to our knowledge of them for decades, through the relationship with the Soviet Union and then with Russia. In the different circumstances this relationship has undergone – circumstances that have brought radical changes – not once the Russians tried to impose anything on us, even when there were differences, including Syria’s role in Lebanon. Despite our differences with the Soviet Union at that time, they did not try to impose certain decisions on us although we used to depend greatly on them, particularly when it comes to weapons. Today, the same applies to the Russian Federation. It is not merely a style adopted by the President or the Russian leadership. It is a form of popular culture for them. When we meet on all levels, and in all sectors, they have one culture based on morality. They have self-respect and they respect sovereignty. That’s why the Russian policy today is based on principles, because these principles constitute an existing popular and cultural condition. When they say that they emphasize Security Council resolutions, state sovereignty, respect for others, respect for the will of the Syrian people, or any other people, they reflect their culture and apply it on a daily and continuous manner. That’s why I can confirm that they haven’t carried out one simple or complicated, major or important step, regardless of the labels, except in consultation with Syria.

..."it is a form of popular culture for them... it is not merely a style adopted by the [Russian] President ... they have one culture based on morality. They have self-respect and they respect sovereignty. "

These things are missing, not only from the state discourse in the Western regimes, NATO countries, etc., but also among the vast majority in places like rabble's discussion board. Contempt for sovereignty. LIterally. Loathsome and disgusting attitudes of approval of carrying out a war against a sovereign state is treated as if it were the most normal and respectful thing in the world. It's truly monstrous. And anyone who dares to challenge this chorus of hate... had better watch out.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

That interview with al-Assad has some other noteworthy remarks, e.g., his comments on the pressures put on Egypt to toe the US line and obey the Empire ...

Quote:
At the same time, we know that pressure on Egypt has never stopped, whether from the West which wants it to play a marginal role in a certain direction, or from the pre-historic Gulf sheikdoms which want one of the oldest civilization of the world to be like them.

.. the pre-historic Gulf sheikdoms .... gotta remember that one ... thanks Bashar al-Assad!  .. lol ....

Quote:
Question: Mr. President, since the beginning of the war, and from day one, all those who visited you were inspired by a feeling of victory, even if it happened after a while. Even in the hardest of times, you were always optimistic. Where do you get this feeling and this confidence from while you are facing an aggression waged by the strongest states of the world?

President Assad: .... when you are defending your country, you do not have any other choice: either victory or the end of the homeland. There is no choice between victory and defeat, the cause is not personal. For others, it might mean the defeat of a President or not, the defeat of a government or not, but for me the question is not that of defeat but the collapse, the destruction, the fragmentation of a homeland. All these causes push you in one direction which is to always feel that you are moving towards victory. ...

Question: Mr. President, you are known for being very close to the Syrian people. You go out and meet people in public places. Have the Syrian people surprised you in this war negatively or positively?

President Assad: The Syrian people is patriotic and has a strong sense of independence and dignity. This has always been there, and we see it today. But what surprised all of us as Syrians are two things, one negative and one positive. We were surprised of the size and level of subordination to foreign powers. It is a small percentage but larger than expected. This is the truth. We used to ask whether it was hidden or whether it was based on the ignorance which is related to extremism. Conversely, a positive aspect surprised us which is the level of heroism. We all used to read stories about Arab history and heroism, but most of these acts of heroism were individual. The heroism we see today, the martyrs, the fighters, the wounded, and their families are forms of collective heroism, not individual, and this is really surprising without any exaggeration. Even if we wanted to invent a story about Syrian heroism, and wanted to exaggerate, we would not reach the level we have seen today. This is surprising and a cause for pride.

"This is surprising and a cause of pride."

When the whole people are the hero, defeat is impossible. This is what Fidel said about Cuba, many times. The Empire can annihilate us but it cannot defeat us. Only among FN in Canada is there anything like this kind of heroism in our own country. And among women who are familiar with the endless violence against them ...

 

Interview

NDPP

Nearly 8,500 Civilians Flee Militant-Held Areas of Aleppo - Russian MoD (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/369717-aleppo-massive-civilian-evacuation

"Some 8,400 civilian have been evacuated from the militant-held districts of eastern Aleppo over the past 24 hours."

 

As Regime Change By Takfiris Fails - GCC Lobbyists Call For US Occupation of Upper Mesopotamia

https://t.co/rX6u9riN8s

NDPP

Obama Grants Waiver For Military Support of Foreign Fighters in Syria

http://rt.com/usa/369702-obama-waiver-military-aid-syria-forces

"US President Barack Obama has ordered a waiver for restrictions on military aid for foreign forces and others in Syria, deeming it 'essential to the national security interests' of the US..."

MegB

lagatta4 wrote:

By the way, I'm the same lagatta - log in problem which I'll try to remedy.

I can help you with log in problems. PM me with the details and I'll fix it.

MegB

Ikosmos, I'm getting  a lot of complaints about your posts. Do you need a break from babble?

lagatta4

Thanks Meg. I'll send you a PM. I think it is because the e-mail I first logged in way back in 2001 no longer exists.

Rev Pesky

lagatta4 wrote:

Even those of us who say it isn't an accident in either case?

Strangely enough, in the case of the USA bombing a hospital in Mosul they did not claim it was an accident. They were quite clear that it was deliberate, the reason given was that the bad guys were using it.

I think the point is that at the same tiime as the 'western' leaders are decrying the use of force in Aleppo, they are doing precisely the same thing in Mosul. The difference is that when Syria does it, it's bad, and when the USA does it, it's good.

Let's be very clear about this. None of this would be happening if the USA had not decided to invade Iraq, and destroy it's infrastructure. All of what's happening in Iraq, Libya, Syria and points in between is a result of the enactment of USA foreign policy. That is where the blame lies for all of this.

The other thing to remember is that the USA plan is to destroy infrastructure, making recovery and rebuilding impossible. Interestingly, this is exactly the same plan followed by Israel in Gaza and the West Bank.

There is an old phrase that was the favourite of right-wingers back when, "bomb them back to the stone age". That is what we're watching, and that is deliberate USA policy.

The USA doesn't care about Assad, nor Gaddafi, nor Hussein. They were all friends of the USA at one time. The USA doesn't care about 'dictators'. Most of their 'friends' are dictators. Saudi Arabia, obviously, but also Egypt, Bahrain, Kuwait, and a host of other countries around the world.

What they do care about is Middle Eastern nations that are more secular than not. Notice that it has been the most secular of Middle Eastern nations that have suffered the wrath of USA foreign policy. All the while the USA repeats ad infinitum their screeds against Islam.

I remember when George Bush Jr. said 'You're with us or you're against us'. as a warning to those who didn't follow in lock-step. What should be obvious now is that even if you are 'with' them, you still stand to get slapped down if it suits their purposes. The USA doesn't want sycophants, They don't even want servants. What they want are slaves. Their is no other purpose to their foreign policy.

lagatta4

Oh yes, this whole mess started (in the short term) with the deliberate destruction of Iraq as a nation and society by the US and their toadies (I was going to write "poodles", but I'm sick of all the animal references that are so unfair to non-human animals). And in the longer term by imperialist interference in the region, mostly by the British and later the USAmericans, but the French had a hand in it too.

I doubt many babblers would disagree.

The US and other powers, have long favoured religious fundamentalists in the region, originally to prevent the emergence of secular, democratic, nationalist or left forces. And certainly long been in bed with the Saudi theocratic monarchy.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Rev Pesky wrote:
I remember when George Bush Jr. said 'You're with us or you're against us'. as a warning to those who didn't follow in lock-step. What should be obvious now is that even if you are 'with' them, you still stand to get slapped down if it suits their purposes. The USA doesn't want sycophants, They don't even want servants. What they want are slaves. Their is no other purpose to their foreign policy.

The Empire wants to be the Empire forever. Any prospective challenger, even a regional one, even a country that "merely" retains its sovereignty, and chooses its own path of development, their own form of democracy (such as socialism, etc.) , is a "threat" that must be eliminated. Noam Chomsky once described Cuba as "the threat of a good example". I think this is better and more accurate description of the Empire, and certainly it is reflected in known foreign policy documents and doctrines over the years [Wolfowitz Doctrine, etc. ].

Global slavery by the US is no longer possible. Many countries would have to be nuked, and their entire population murdered, for the USA to get its way. And, there is still a sizable fraction of the US population that would "object" to such genocide. A little. So I think your claim that they desire slavery, literally, from the global population is not quite correct.

Perhaps I'm quibbling. Chomsky also recently remarked that the GOP is the most dangerous organization in the world. I have to disagree. The US government is the most dangerous organization in the world.

Edited to add: My apologies for not adding this. The Empire is, nevertheless, in decline. And, therefore, it sometimes conducts itself like a bull in a china shop, smashing things furiously, for no good reason other than it is stupid, brutal, and can't do anything else. I think this is also a part of the way the US conducts itself and why it doesn't make sense sometimes. I

It's the hubris of Empire, that cannot see its own demise, that accepts that everything else except itself has an end, etc. I think Marx had a few good comments about this in relation to social classes that cannot see their own end.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

MegB wrote:

Ikosmos, I'm getting  a lot of complaints about your posts. Do you need a break from babble?

I will send you a PM.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Torture and executions at the hands of the "moderate" opposition in Syria.

As civilian "human shields" escape the barbarity of the Western-sponsored terrorists in Aleppo, stories are emerging of torture and executions of civilians at the hands of the "moderate opposition".

Quote:
“Civilians who escaped from terrorists are reporting about new crimes committed by the so-called ‘moderate opposition’ fighters in east Aleppo. There is confirmation of the facts of abuse, torture, public executions, as well as wanton killings of the population," said the head of operations for Russia’s General Staff, Lieutenant General Sergey Rudskoy.

Let's see the scumbag Western MSM report on that, or the Red Cross or HRW comment. "We cannot confirm," or "We'll get back to you (never)" is now their SOP ...

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Meanwhile, the Canadian chihuahua regime, ever the obedient puppy dog to its masters in Washington (with sincere apologies to genuine puppy dogs, dog lovers, babblers whose feelings are hurt by comparisons of Canada's foreign policy to that of an obedient canine, and small children!) , put forward a motion at the UN GA today ...

RT wrote:
UN General Assembly demands truce in Syria, end to Aleppo siege

The United Nations General Assembly voted 122 to 13 on Friday to demand an immediate cessation of hostilities in Syria, humanitarian aid access throughout the country and an end to all sieges, including in Aleppo. Thirty-six countries abstained in the vote on the Canadian-drafted resolution on the nearly six-year Syrian conflict. General Assembly resolutions are non-binding, but can carry political weight. (Reuters)

O Canada! Ever the friend of freedom! OH, and about those sanctions against Syria, still fighting the terrorists that you support ...

 

swallow swallow's picture

[url=http://www.un.org/press/en/2016/ga11871.doc.htm]UN summary of the debate, citing views of multiple countries for and against.[/url]

I can't find a record of who voted for and against, but presumably the US and Canada are among the 122 voting Yes, and Russia and Syria are among the 12 voting no. 

NDPP

ikosmos wrote:

MegB wrote:

Ikosmos, I'm getting  a lot of complaints about your posts. Do you need a break from babble?

I will send you a PM.

Here's why...

'US To Hand Out Arms Like Christmas Cookies To Preserve Terrorist Assets in Syria'

https://youtu.be/TKcABqJxWzQ

"President Obama's waiver of restrictions on supplying arms to militant groups in Syria looks like a desperate attempt to compensate for the loss of Aleppo and preserve terrorist assets elsewhere...'We must stop this madness. We must stop arming terrorists.'

 

Ja'afari Slams UN Resolution on Syria: 'Bloody Game is Over'

http://almasdarnews.com/article/jaafari-slams-un-resolution-syria-bloody...

"Syrian Ambassador to the UN Bashar Ja'a fari slammed a CANADIAN-DRAFTED RESOLUTION which attempts to end the Syrian Army siege on the jihadist-held pocket of E Aleppo.

'I would like to reassure the states that sponsor terrorism in Aleppo that the Syrian Army has up to this point liberated 93% of the areas that terrorists used to control in Aleppo city, and their bloody game is taking its last breaths,' Ja'afari added. Addressing the 'sponsors' of terrorism, the Syrian envoy also said that 'their bloody terrorist game in Syria and Aleppo is over..."

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

LOL I really doubt that is why MegB is getting a lot of complaints about ikosmos.

Rev Pesky

ikosmos wrote:
...Global slavery by the US is no longer possible. Many countries would have to be nuked, and their entire population murdered, for the USA to get its way. And, there is still a sizable fraction of the US population that would "object" to such genocide. A little. So I think your claim that they desire slavery, literally, from the global population is not quite correct.

Perhaps I'm quibbling. Chomsky also recently remarked that the GOP is the most dangerous organization in the world. I have to disagree. The US government is the most dangerous organization in the world.

Well, I think enslaving the whole globe has always been beyond the powers of the USA, but I don't think that prevents them from trying. I agree completely on your quote about the most dangerous organization. In fact, I wonder why Chomsky would differentiate between Democrats and Republicans. Their foreign policies over the years have been precisely the same.

ikosmos wrote:
...Edited to add: My apologies for not adding this. The Empire is, nevertheless, in decline. And, therefore, it sometimes conducts itself like a bull in a china shop, smashing things furiously, for no good reason other than it is stupid, brutal, and can't do anything else. I think this is also a part of the way the US conducts itself and why it doesn't make sense sometimes...

The biggest, and most effecive tool the US government has is it's military. And that is what it uses. As the old saying goes, when all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail. I agree the empire is in decline, and also agree that is the reason for at least some of their actions. To a certain extent, their show of military force is just to remind people that they still have it.

What a different world this would be if it was the force of ideas instead of the force of arms.

NDPP

Canadian journalist and Rabble.ca contributor Eva Bartlett on Syria

http://sptnkne.ws/cW5v

"...Why most of the corporate media are telling lies about Syria. Because this is the agenda."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

As the SAA and its Allies continue successfully against the Western-sponsored Axis of terrorists, especially in Aleppo, the US Daesh proxies have been able to move from Iraq back to Palmyra in Syria, with a sizable force. A. Korybyko has a good analysis of these events and how they may affect the defense of Syria.

Quote:
Oriental Review just published my analysis on "The Implications Of Daesh's Palmyra Offensive":

"Although the Russian Aerospace Forces did respond to the attack, the fact that they weren’t preemptive in stopping it in the first place could mean a few interrelated things. The first is that Russia was so concentrated on the Aleppo operation (both its military and humanitarian halves) that it simply didn’t have enough resources to devote to monitoring events around Palmyra. This would point to larger problems, though, which would suggest that the size of the Russian military presence in Syria is not adequate for the mission that’s expected of it and should consequently be increased as soon as possible.

This observation gains credence when one considers the reports that the Palmyra offensive was enabled by Daesh reserves being redirected from Raqqa and Mosul, which if true, would mean that a few thousand terrorists and all of their heavy weaponry were able to make the long haul across the desert (and in the case of Mosul, even across the international border) without being detected and/or preemptively bombed."

The Implications Of Daesh’s Palmyra Offensive

Long ago, still smarting from the thrashing the US monster received in Viet Nam, the Americans decided to "Viet Nam-ize" the conflict in Afghanistan, in the words of architect Zbignew Brzezinski, forcing the then Soviet Armed Forces to play an ever larger role in that country. Call it revenge for an ass-kicking. Brzezinski gloats about this "accomplishment" to this very day although, naturally enough, he has less to say about how he contributed to awakening, funding, training, and throwing loving attention on these medieval jihadists, dushmen and the like, that are now plagueing our entire planet.

In any case, it looks somewhat the same with the US barbarians, truly in love with their head-chopping proteges, surreptitiously helping (or certainly not hindering) their proxies across the Iraq/Syria border to make a new HQ for Daesh and the rest of the jihadi potpourri in sacred Palmyra. There will be no more Russian classical music concerts in that part of the desert! Rock and roll and zombie Sunni head bangers only! 

Korybko is optimistic that Turkey, now more Eurasian than European, and smarting both from European visa and Schengen snubs and snobbery, outraged by the US-sponsored coup d'etat, will work more with Iran and Russia than hitherto. Turkey has its own conflict with the Kurds already, but it would not take much of a change for Turkey to direct their guns at their whilom anti-Syrian allies in that part of Syria. We'll see soon enough.

Sorry, Uncle Sam, your plots are familiar. There's just too much good in the world for you, huh?

sherpa-finn

Oh goody.... "This would point to larger problems, though, which would suggest that the size of the Russian military presence in Syria is not adequate for the mission that’s expected of it and should consequently be increased as soon as possible."  

The imperialist bear moves on... no surprise there.

Meanwhile, for an alternative perspective, probably a little closer to reality: 

"Rather than counterterrorism, the actual Russian intention was to secure Assad militarily and then extinguish all workable alternatives, thereby rehabilitating Assad politically. To disguise this fact and rewrite the narrative of the intervention as one of anti-extremism, Russia's ruler, Vladimir Putin, sought to end the major offensive phase of the intervention in March 2016 by pushing IS out of Palmyra.... Because the primary objective was political and time-sensitive, most of IS's force in Palmyra was allowed to leave in what was in effect a coordinated withdrawal... Over the summer, the pro-regime coalition ceased offensive operations against IS to secure Palmyra, and diverted resources to an assault on the areas of Aleppo City held by the nationalist rebels."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/we-should-not-be-shocked-that-isis-took-palmyra...


 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

For an alternative to the above pro-US imperialist "alternative" see Alex Mercouris ...

Quote:
This episode in fact highlights the different approaches to the war between the Russians and the Syrians.

For the Russians retaining Palmyra, which is a critically important cultural monument, is a fundamental objective, so that its loss to ISIS was – as General Baluyevsky has said – a blow to their “prestige”. 

For the Syrians, the very existence of whose state is at stake, Palmyra is a sideshow, and a distraction from the real war, in which they are fighting for their lives and for their country in western Syria.

Furious Russian military blame US, ‘humanitarian pauses’, for fall of Palmyra

The Western MSM and its echo chamber cannot conceive of a difference in opinion between the Russian military and the Putin administration. How could they? Russian is an utter one-man dictatorship and, therefore, differences are impossible.

Must be nice to live in such a fantasy world.

Meanwhile, Mercouris is of the view that the Russian military view is going to prevail.

Quote:
Notwithstanding these differences, it is undoubtedly the Russian view about Palmyra which is now going to prevail.  Though the very latest reports confirm that ISIS is still gaining ground near Palmyra, and though the number of reinforcements which the Syrian army has so far sent to Palmyra is small, there is no doubt that a major counter-offensive to recapture the city will be organised in the next few weeks.

Though the Russians continue to rule out sending ground troops to Syria, they have pointedly made known that they do not consider their Special Forces (“Spetsnaz”) to be ground troops.  Undoubtedly some of them are heading to Palmyra now.

 

 

Rev Pesky

I'll just point out that the 'closer to reality' article posted by sherpa-finn was written by a guy whose previous article was

After 15 years, why aren't we asking about Iran's role in 9/11?

Quote:
Unfortunately, the Western approach is making the problem worse. A good example came on Thursday night (8 September 2016) when the US-launched air strikes against some leaders of al-Qaeda in Syria, now calling itself Jabhat Fatah al-Sham (JFS), which ostensibly disaffiliated from al-Qaeda in July in order to further this process of entanglement.

JFS claims it has no external ambitions and is working to break the siege of 300,000 people in the rebel-held areas of Aleppo city, yet it is attacked. Meanwhile, the US has done nothing about the thousands of Iranian-controlled Shia jihadists, tied into Iran’s global terrorist network, who are the leading element in imposing the siege, and conducted these strikes likely in furtherance of a deal with Russia, which also helped impose the siege. JFS thus claimed that it is serving the Syrian people, while the US opposes the revolution and supports the pro-regime coalition.

Let's face it. This writer (Kyle Orton), wouldn't know reality if it jumped up and bit him in the ass. Come'on, sherpa-finn, get your head out of the National Enquirer and try to find something a little 'closer to reality'.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...

Syrian Army Declares Victory in Aleppo

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/world/201612121048476601-syria-army-calls-victory-aleppo/

I'm looking forward to the revealing silence, or gloomy reporting about the victory, or "hopeful" reports on the jihadist efforts in Palmyra, or vigorous denunciations of the poor GLBT services in newly-liberated Aleppo ... in the "free" Western MSM ...

 

It's party time in Aleppo. And rightly so!

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Jesus, Joseph and Mary. The wheels really are coming off the Western MSM narrative...

‘Reuters citing ISIS ‘news agency’ elevates its legitimacy’

"By citing the Amaq 'news agency,' which is considered the mouthpiece of ISIS, Reuters is bringing a new recognition to the terrorist organization, by virtue of the platform it reports from, says legal and media analyst Lionel.

The Reuters news agency while reporting ISIS attempts to retake Palmyra in an article seems to avoid using the term 'terrorists,' but instead labels them as militants."

Quote:
Lionel: I find it interesting because here in the US we are talking about fake news constantly; we are talking about what are legitimate news sources. We are also hearing how RT is called a state-run news agency. Some people have suggested, especially in the State Department, that they don’t necessarily acknowledge RT because it is state-run. But now I guess this Amaq or this group is now a new player in accepted media journalism. I find that fascinating.

US MSM. Quoting terrorist "media organizations". Because freedom. Or something.

sherpa-finn

Long series of articles from assorted Russian media posted advocating increased pro-Russian military engagement in Syria to eliminate rebels, strengthen Assad and ignore ISIS.

Rev Pesky: crickets

One article from western media posted pointing out imperial nature of Russian adventurism in Syria.

Rev Pesky: "Hey, get your head out of the National Enquirer!"

Further series of articles from assorted Russian media posted .... 

Rev Pesky

sherpa-finn wrote:

Long series of articles from assorted Russian media posted advocating increased pro-Russian military engagement in Syria to eliminate rebels, strengthen Assad and ignore ISIS.

Rev Pesky: crickets

One article from western media posted pointing out imperial nature of Russian adventurism in Syria.

Rev Pesky: "Hey, get your head out of the National Enquirer!"

Further series of articles from assorted Russian media posted .... 

Are you stating unequivocally that the Kyle Orton piece is a legitimate piece of journalism, rather than a right-wing rant by someone who is a partisan of some pretty idiotic conspiracy theories?

Rev Pesky

I did a little more research on your friend Kyle Orton. Turns out he's a Fellow of the Henry Jackson Society, a British group dedicated to the memory of Henry 'Scoop' Jackson, and the furtherance of his goals.

You might wonder why a British group would name themselves after a US Senator, but it's all explained at the site:

The Henry Jackson Society

Essentially a group of half-wit neo-cons running a propaganda organization.

Good one, sherpa-finn. I'd never heard of these guys before, but now I do. When I need a good laugh.

But, 'closer to reality'? Oh my.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Today the lead story on CBC radio this morning is about the announcement of the GoC to legalize marijuana. The liberation of Aleppo is only number two. Because, it's clear, this great victory is a cause for concern for the terrorist-loving CBC. 

There is discussion of "rebels" agreeing to a ceasefire to allow fighters and civilians to leave Aleppo.  As if. Terrorists become rebels. People who use civilians as human shields are not trying to re-load, no; they're "allowing civilians to leave". Another stinking CBC lie.

Ban Ki Moon, the US stooge and outgoing US Sec Gen, gets the spotlight. There is no reporting of the enormous celebration of the Syrian people. The CBC calls it "the siege of Aleppo" and never, never, never, admit that the terrorists are anywhere near the city, nor that they were the leading forces, using the civilians as human shields, fighting the government, and terrorizing Aleppo for years now.

The CBC is a disgrace. Nothing they say can be trusted on this file. Zero.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

So how do you, personally, know which narrative to buy into? Maybe the CBC is inaccurate or lying, maybe your beloved Russian sources are inaccurate or lying. How do you know?

Because, really, unless you're on the ground there, you don't. And even then, it would be difficult to tell. Fundamentally, we all fly blind to a certain extent and we rely on sources of news that we decide to trust for one reason or another. Sometimes that reason is analytical, sometimes that reason is based on emotion, sometimes it's based on deep-seated biases and sometimes it's all about that which benefits us. In war coverage, it's always easy to get some percentage of detail wrong, one way or the other.

Short answer: You're just buying the narrative that you like. Or the one that butters your bread. Either way, just stop with the sticky-keyboard wanker stuff. I doubt there are "celebrations" given the massive extent of destruction, whether you like the guys who blew this or that up or not. A lot of people are dead and dying. Have some respect.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Hey! Jihadis in Palmyra! Get some! Get some!

Vladimir Putin prepares Palmyra’s liberation

Cue the wailing and knashing of teeth in the Western MSM.

Oh, by the way, they're already ... wailing, making shit up, and so on.

Here's how the MSM covered Aleppo's liberation. It's not a pretty sight.

Quote:

As the “Great Battle of Aleppo’ approaches its end – which will probably come tomorrow – there could not be a sharper contrast between the way in which the news of the Syrian army’s victory is being celebrated in Syria, and the gloom and anger with which it is being received in the West.

In Aleppo itself film shows joyful Syrians flooding onto the streets to celebrate the Syrian army’s victory and the coming end of the fighting in their city.

Meanwhile in the West UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, who heads a UN Secretariat which has played an appalling role in supporting Western regime change agendas first in Libya and more recently in Syria, has issued a statement expressing his “grave concern” about atrocities supposedly perpetrated on civilians in a way that is clearly intended to place the blame on the Syrian authorities.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Street Celebrations in Aleppo.

Just look the other way if it bothers you.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

A Tale of Two Aleppos

Quote:
Going on CNN and other free and truth-telling Western media, you discover a horrifying Aleppo apocalypse, where the evil tyrant Assad is massacring untold thousands of civilians, with the help of even more evil Russian air strikes, which invariably hit hospitals, schools, and bakeries. You discover a city where people would rather die than give themselves up to the tender mercies of this regime, with its torture camps and jails, and where a tiny handful of brave rebels and White Helmets stand between them and annihilation.

Going on the Russian paid fake news sites, like for example 21st Century Wire, The Duran, Al Masdar News or Moon of Alabama, strangely enough, you discover a different Aleppo altogether – one in which the “White Helmets” are fake propaganda, the rebels are actually headhunting jihadi terrorists who have been holding tens of thousands of civilians hostage, and where the legitimate government of Syria is liberating them with Russian military aid. You find an Aleppo where the people are grateful to the government forces for defeating the terrorists, and for feeding and liberating them.

Obviously, the truth-telling Western MSM are the ones to believe, right? The others are just paid Russian sites, huh?

Quote:
And then you have a little problem, because the former have nothing – no evidence at all, none whatever, except the “statements” of “activists” and the burblings of “UN officials” who contradict themselves each time they open their mouths. On the latter side, though, you have video after video of people celebrating at their rescue; you have visuals testifying to the brutality of the terrorists, and the depravity with which they starved the people while keeping back food and medicine for themselves; you have the testimony of actual reporters right on the ground, following on the footsteps of the troops.

You have, in other words, evidence.

There is only one way you can make your way out of this conundrum with your reality intact. Close your eyes and look away from those videos!  Block those annoying people on Fakebook and Twitter who insist on inflicting unpleasant evidence on you! Tell yourself, a thousand times over, that Assad is a tyrant, Putin is evil, and cuddly little moderate rebels are battling for freedom against them. That is the only way to sanity.

Fail to do so, and you are well on the way to becoming a Paid Russian Fake News Troll yourself.

You have been warned.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Boris Johnson: "Rule Britannia, Britannia Rules the Waves!"

Just an idiot for a long, blown out, Empire. Boris Johnson discusses air drops for the jihadis - sorry, I mean "the rebels" - in a last ditch effort to help them...

Quote:

“For air drops to be accurate they must be conducted at low level and low speed and Russia has deployed its most advanced jet fighters and surface-to-air missiles in Syria, which makes it impossible for us to carry out air drops without Russian permission.

Even if Russia were to give its consent, our aircraft would still have to fly over areas of Syria that are hotly contested by a multitude of armed groups, including Daesh and al-Qaida.

They would make every effort to shoot down a British plane and a lumbering, low-flying transport aircraft would be a sitting duck.

We came reluctantly to the conclusion that air drops over Syria under those conditions would prove too great a risk.

And when it comes to drones and other devices, we still face the problem that it is the Syrians and the Russians who control the airspace.

Of course it is possible that circumstances may change, so I will not rule out any option for delivering aid today but nor will I give false hope.

As things stand, we’d be risking the lives of our aircrew if we were to try to drop supplies into eastern Aleppo.

We are doing everything we can within the constraints that we face. I hope that Russia will see sense and join with us to secure the transition away from Assad, that is the only hope for a peaceful Syria. It’s up to them. It’s up to the Russians, it’s up to Iran. They have the future of Syria in their hands.”

Rule Britannia! Britannia Rule the Waves!

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Guardian coverage: It's the apocalypse!

M Sleboda wrote:
The Western MSM propaganda onslaught was Titanic today - the number of crocodile tears shed for #AlQaeda and friends in last occupied blocks of East #Aleppo could have floating the ill-fated ship of the same name.

They they surrendered and got bussed to #AlQaeda-ruled #idlib and it just kind of fizzled out...

OK, maybe not.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Victory Morning.

Source: Syrian Arab Republic.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Which is the ultimate goal of disinformation. It's certainly not to convince anyone of anything, merely to create enough white noise and exhaustion that discussion is shut down.

6079_Smith_W

It's okay, ikosmos. 

If I want to get real news, and have a real discussion about the situation in Syria, I do it elsewhere. I haven't bothered here for ages.

This thread has pretty much been the ikosmos and NDPP show for months, and there isn't much for anyone else to say except to react to your posts.

So sure, the executions, bombings and murders are faked. No one is getting killed. They all got on busses and went east.

I could get outraged about you jumping for joy. Have done in the past. But really how many people are reading this and taking it seriously?

The only thing I think is kind of shitty is that that real discussion is not going to happen on this site, becaucse as with a number of other issues the hope of any talk, even any reasonable disagreement, just gets trolled into the ground.

If that's your victory, it is a pretty hollow one. Who is engaging here? Five people?

 

Pages

Topic locked