War in Syria 4

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kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The latest from the champion of democracy. A country that thinks any interference in its elections is tantamount to an act of war. Of course for citizens of lesser countries their Presidential candidates must go through an American vetting process.

The latest remarks by the US diplomat are in line with the position of the administration of former President Barack Obama, which made any resolution of the Syrian crisis conditional on President Assad’s stepping down.

http://presstv.com/Detail/2017/04/04/516644/US-wont-accept-Assad-partaki...

 

6079_Smith_W
kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Obama is to blame for the gas attack too:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/04/politics/syria-chemical-attack-donald-trum...

Still posting fake news I see.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Ok, so what is fake about it? Are you saying there was no chemical attack?

6079_Smith_W

Just a little inside joke, I expect.

I don't think anyone is questioning that the attack happened. And yes, Spicer did say that.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Ok, so what is fake about it? Are you saying there was no chemical attack?

I am saying is that the US press is once again pointing fingers without any proof. Are you stupid enough to believe that everytime the Syrian Army makes gains and has the terrorists on the run and peace negotiations might break out they then decide to massacre their own citizens? 

NDPP

Syria Airstrike Hit Al Qaeda Weapons Dump in Idlib, Which Included Chemical Weapons

https://t.co/9pCxQBF1XQ

The 'Save Idlib' Campaign Begins: Another CW False Flag with Fake Doctor Shajul Islam - Dirty War on Syria

https://twitter.com/timand2037/status/849378333750120449

 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

So the Russians and Syrians bombed a weapon depot in a civilian area they knew had chemical weapons in it, how smart is that? They may as well have dropped them on the civilians from their aircraft themselves.

Unionist

Bec should hazard an explanation as to how a chemical weapons attack would serve the interests of the Assad regime and its Russian allies. And why the so-called "rebels" in that area aren't respecting the ceasefire (hard to figure that out from news reports, but if you try hard, you'll hear it). "Cui bono" does occasionally offer an explanation, in the absence of hard facts. At least Bec isn't denying that the "rebels" stockpile and use chemical weapons - which is what the U.N. investigation found to be true in the case of ISIS.

 

6079_Smith_W

Except that bombing it would not release it. It would destroy it. And what ISIS had tried to use (unsuccessfully) was chlorine, not sarin. One does not magically turn into the other.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/04/syria-chemical-attack-idli...

As for how easy it is to make sarin:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2013-10-10/no-you-can-t-make-sar...

bekayne

NDPP wrote:

Syria Airstrike Hit Al Qaeda Weapons Dump in Idlib, Which Included Chemical Weapons

https://t.co/9pCxQBF1XQ

The 'Save Idlib' Campaign Begins: Another CW False Flag with Fake Doctor Shajul Islam - Dirty War on Syria

https://twitter.com/timand2037/status/849378333750120449

 

So it happened, and it didn't happen. Schrodinger's bombing.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

So the Russians and Syrians bombed a weapon depot in a civilian area they knew had chemical weapons in it, how smart is that? They may as well have dropped them on the civilians from their aircraft themselves.

A weapons depot in a civilian area that includes chemical weapons. If that is what happened then it would seem to me that the "moderates" using civilians to shield their caches of illegal weapons would be the culpable party.

6079_Smith_W

The people on the ground are responsible? Like wrong place at the wrong time?

To repeat, if planes had dropped bombs on stores of sarin gas all it would have done was destroy it. Of course that was just a story made up to cover the fact someone dropped nerve gas from those planes and killed a lot of people, including civilians.

The rebels have never had sarin gas, or the means to make it.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

(Actullly Smith a conventional bomb hit on a chemical storage area would in fact also release some of the the gas. )

Hi Unionist.

I really don’t think the Syrians and or Russians give a fuck what anybody thinks about them using whatever they want to use. If it was a gas attack from the air it was/would have been the Syrian AF whom would have done it. The Russians get a sort of plausible deniability as they are smart enough not to do that kind of stuff themselves and most here think they don’t control the Syrians like NATO and the USA seems to always control their allies.   

I could also believe the chemicals being released from a bombed weapons dump... its very plausible. But again, it also shows the disregard the Syrian and Russian air forces have for civilian casualties. Again, they just don’t give a fuck what you think (sorry). The Russians are feeding the Syrians target data for their air strikes and they had to have suspected or even known that a huge depot like that would have held homemade chemical weapons. Or are the Russians smart when you want them to be smart and stupid when you want them to be stupid?

But again all this would be easy enough to prove either way... you guys remember my little class on bomb fragments and crater analysis I gave awhile back? (How easy you guys forget...) The chemical bombs would have left (different) fragments and impact craters that would be easy to identify from regular bombs. That's just the way it is in the real world.

 And no... Bombing the chemical bombs with real bombs would not destroy everything. The Syrian Air force is just not that accurate with their mostly free fall iron bombs. The site is in rebel held areas so they would be found and displayed by the local rebels and this would be a major media victory for them. I haven’t seen nothing yet... so...    

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

The Russians are feeding the Syrians target data for their air strikes and they had to have suspected or even known that a huge depot like that would have held homemade chemical weapons.

I suspected the terrorists were stockpiling chemical weapons but getting any real proof about what is happening on the ground is very difficult. I find it interesting you not only agree the terrorists have chemical weapons to deploy but you take it as a foregone conclusion. Some fucking freedom fighters.

6079_Smith_W

Bec, I'm going by the guardian story - the opinion of the fellow from the biological and chemical weapons regiment who said it wouldn't happen that way. The story has been pretty roundly panned, even before the reports that there was no explosion, and that there was a rocket lying on the ground oozing black gunk.

Sarin isn't stored as a gas. It is stored as two liquid chemicals in separate containers which are combined after the rocket has been launched. Note in this wikipedia page there is one case of insurgents during the iraq war getting ahold of a sarin artillery shell and trying to set it off. They screwed it up. In fact, according to the story there is a good chance they thought it was a regular explosive shell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin

 

 

 

 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

So it was sarin gas? The rocket lying on the ground oozing black gunk needs to be shown to the public and examaned by chemical experts. I this the rocket in question?.

That metal tube sticking out is part of the rocket motor. The warhead blasted the ground.

NDPP

'Dead' victim of 'sarin gas attack' in Syria  opens her eyes

https://twitter.com/JustinRaimondo/status/849751305346195456

WMDs In the UNSC

https://t.co/goeQHkEdXj

"History repeats itself, 1st as Tragedy, 2nd as Farce'

So what about that CF participation in the massive warcrime of Mosul..? 

 

josh

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

So the Russians and Syrians bombed a weapon depot in a civilian area they knew had chemical weapons in it, how smart is that? They may as well have dropped them on the civilians from their aircraft themselves.

A weapons depot in a civilian area that includes chemical weapons. If that is what happened then it would seem to me that the "moderates" using civilians to shield their caches of illegal weapons would be the culpable party.

Same excuse the Israelis used in Gaza.

SeekingAPolitic...

http://www.fao.org/news/story/en/item/522843/icode/

I am glad that I am cynical person because I whole syria thing would not doubt put me in bad mood.  Anyone hoping to find the truth in MSM is fooling themselves.  I was watching the big us news channels and I got usual parade of crocidile tears by the actors that pretend to be reporters.  What we hear is political narative rather so sort sure for truth.  Did assid use chemical weapons I really don't know but I know watching major news channels will not answer that question.  Let me explain my cynism to what I see on the news.

I think that Western press does a great job of covering Syria and does an outstanding job building a nartative that Assad is animal and tyrant.  We are told to be outraged by what we see and of course we should call for the outster of Assad.  I believe that what I wrote in the above 2 setences does a pretty good job a describing the state of what is being put before the people.

Now lets travel to yemen.  The country is going through a food crisis the UN believes is on the edge of famine.  17 million are going through levels of stravation.  Yet there is a media blackout on whats happening in the country. 

Why is the case that one country is worthy of 24 hour coverage and the other is largely ignored.  Let me explain why I think this happening.

Syria is a country in a middle of a civil war, Yemen is a country in the middle of civil war.

In syria's case the government is lead by a hositile leader to the interest of the western powers.  Its being supported by Iran, Russia, and some non governmental players like shia militias from iraq.  On the other side we the sunni gulf states, Israel, Britian, France, Turkey and the US.  The western powers push their influence on the battlefield with supporting varies sunni rebels groups and the kurds(which have then own agenda.)  The sunni gulf states train and funded their own foriegn sunni groups that want to replace the Assad government with a friendly(puppet) leader to the gulf state leader.  The irony is these forgein figthers will retrun home after the conclusion of the fate of Assad and start to undermine the leaders of the gulf states. And we have ISIS.  As for Canada it is a junior partner in Assad removal group, I have to mention that Assad was acceptable to the Canadian governmet when canada manufactured the scheme to torture of its own citizens for information by using the same group of thugs(the status was changed form secruty professionals that tortured canadian citizens for useful information to today thugs that are torturing various groups in the civil war in syria).  I hope I got all the players.

Now lets talk about yemen, the government that controls state is shai groups backed by Iran.  On the other side the sunni groups which wants to restore their person to power is back by the gulf states.  The saudis have a put together a coalition who want to bring democracy to yemen, while none of these gulf states are democratic states rather they are absoulte monarchies.  Quitely the western powers support the Saudi's with weapons and intellegence becasue in this proxy war than want the sunnis back in power because they are hositle to Iran.  In that potitical environment we have a general collaspe of state insitutions becasue of general fighting and Saudi bombing Yemen is the edge of famine.  Canada is selling weapons Suadi's and providing shadowly political support for the saudi's.

Back to the media, I propose that we see Assad as a tyrant in the western media because politically important get the western public on board with the removal of Assad.  Thats why see all this assad is tyrant messaging in the MSM media.  And yemen and its 17 million facing a possible famine are totally blacked out becasue the if the western audiuence saw straved childern as commonly as syria stories their would a hell to pay.  The public would ask why these people straving, is it connected to war and Suadi bombing.  Then the western powers would have to admit the Yemen is straving because its offshoot our stragety interest to keep Iran in its place.  That is why rabble viewers we see the cordicle tears spilled for Syria and not a world for the people of yemen. 

6079_Smith_W

Bec, this story (which has that same picture) points out that that there were bomb strike sites that indicated small payloads, not something designed to destroy a building, and that they hit with a thud, not an explosion.

Also, according to the Russian story an airstrike hit an alleged munitions depot. According to those on the ground there had been an airstrike, but it had happened several hours before the gas attack, so there were two separate incidents.

The account of one which did not go off is in another story I read last night. I will try to dig it up.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-chemical-attac...

 

Mobo2000

SeekingaPolitic:   Thanks for your thoughts on this, very much agree.

Smith:   Good luck in your efforts to find out what really happened in Syria.   When you figure it out pass it along to the UN.

6079_Smith_W

Why Mobo? You know anything there is just going to get vetoed.

 

Mobo2000

Good point!

NDPP

Did Assad Use Chemical Weapons in Khan  Shaikhoun To Score Own Goal in the International Arena?

https://t.co/RKtaOWkj4t

"So all circumstances work against Assad if he uses chemical weapons against Khan Shaykhoun or against any other place in Syria. The consequences would be entirely to his disadvantage on all fronts, military, political and international..."

Is Washington's 'Red Line' in Syria the Prospect of Victory for Bashar Assad?

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/383702-syria-chemical-weapons-un/

"Following a chemical attack in Syria there seems to be a rush to [mis] judgment, Ray McGovern, former CIA officer, told RT. Dan Glazebrook, political writer and journalist, and Martin Nieuwenhuis, chemical weapons expert, University of Warwick, join the discussion."

pookie

Doesn't matter.  Trump the Wonderful is weighing options to retaliate.

The new president is totally fab!

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

josh wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

So the Russians and Syrians bombed a weapon depot in a civilian area they knew had chemical weapons in it, how smart is that? They may as well have dropped them on the civilians from their aircraft themselves.

A weapons depot in a civilian area that includes chemical weapons. If that is what happened then it would seem to me that the "moderates" using civilians to shield their caches of illegal weapons would be the culpable party.

Same excuse the Israelis used in Gaza.

The Palestians unlike the Syrian jihadists have never used chemical weapons. Syria unlike Israel is in the middle of a civil war being fought in the cities of that unfortunate country. Israel merely bombs civilain areas at will. Another country unlucky enough to have been sited on top of America's oil reserves.

I think bombing cities is wrong including NATO's bombing in Mosel and Syrian and Russian bombing in Syria.  Do you agree they are both war crimes?

NorthReport

Not a fan of Assad but  was wondering how much bad news in his mind  Trump would suffer (so far Huge FBI criminal investigation, failure to repeal obamacare, Nunes' resignation) before he would try to change the channel with a military issue

josh

kropotkin1951 wrote:

josh wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

So the Russians and Syrians bombed a weapon depot in a civilian area they knew had chemical weapons in it, how smart is that? They may as well have dropped them on the civilians from their aircraft themselves.

A weapons depot in a civilian area that includes chemical weapons. If that is what happened then it would seem to me that the "moderates" using civilians to shield their caches of illegal weapons would be the culpable party.

Same excuse the Israelis used in Gaza.

The Palestians unlike the Syrian jihadists have never used chemical weapons. Syria unlike Israel is in the middle of a civil war being fought in the cities of that unfortunate country. Israel merely bombs civilain areas at will. Another country unlucky enough to have been sited on top of America's oil reserves.

I think bombing cities is wrong including NATO's bombing in Mosel and Syrian and Russian bombing in Syria.  Do you agree they are both war crimes?

Oh, so it's okay to kill civilians if it's a "civil war," but not if it's not?  Your effort to distinguish the two is unconvincing.  

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
The Palestians unlike the Syrian jihadists have never used chemical weapons.

Josh can correct me if I misunderstood, but I thought he was talking about the intentional integration of legitimate combat targets into civilian areas.  If someone is culpable for putting a weapons cache into a civilian area to be "shielded" by those civilians then wouldn't another someone be just as culpable for trying to hide combatants in a civilian area, to be shielded by those civilians? 

And shouldn't the "other side" be non-culpable if they also bombed that "civilian" area, to get that legitimate target?

I'm not saying this because I want to see civilian "collateral damage".  But it does seem a bit irresponsible to intentionally bring the fight to where civilians are going to be endangered.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I live near a Canadina air force base. There is housing ringing the base and an elementary school and rec centre and arena plus a civil airport. I guess we are also guilty of having our military embedded in our community.

All sides are killing civilians and when I hear calls for more intervention I think boy that has worked so well in Afghanistan and Iraq and Libya and Haiti. A few of the places Canadians have provided "help" to the locals.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
I guess we are also guilty of having our military embedded in our community.

And if some other country were to bomb us, or send their missiles, then yes, we would be.  Or else what?  They should bomb some tundra or something, where there are no military targets, because we somehow outsmarted them??

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I live near a Canadina air force base. There is housing ringing the base and an elementary school and rec centre and arena plus a civil airport. I guess we are also guilty of having our military embedded in our community.

Yeah but do they have fighter jets parked between buildings in your apartment complex? Is the basment of the elementary school used to store ordnace for bombers? If not you just live next to an air force base and it is not using you as a shield. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Now I'm sort of curious when it stoped being a civilized convention to NOT put the military headquarters in the basement of the orphanage?

6079_Smith_W

More to the point, I didn't see any fighter jets parked on the street in that picture. Does anyone have any evidence for this "human shield" and "military base" narrative?

Then maybe we could get an explanation for how that is in any way a factor in dropping poison gas on people. Nerve gas doesn't destroy munitions and equipment. It just asphyxiates people to death. In this case a lot of children.

So if this is supposed to be the Syrian air force trying to bomb legitimate targets and civilians unfortunately getting in the way, that doesn't really make any sense in this case.

 

SeekingAPolitic...

50 tomohawk crusie missiles just landed on around Homs airfileds.  MSNBC.  Correction 60 crusie missiles.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Nooooooo.... Motherfucker.

So how the fuck you idiots like Trump now..... 8-P

6079_Smith_W
quizzical

ohh so do those tomahawk missles have nuclear warheads or other?

had enough

I wonder how easy it was to have prior access to the area that was bombed with the release of the nerve gas. I was thinking how effective an operation it would have been if ISIS had planted nerve gas itself or with explosives, and then "leaked" the location so it would be bombed. That would depend totally on access, but if that kind of thing happened whoever planned it probably would have gotten several promotions at once. That's the best thing that could have happened for those fucking insane freaks, since they probably bet they could trick the idiot buffoon trump in to doing something stupid.

I know the people affected by the gas aren't ISIS, I mean if they infiltrated to plant the material.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

quizzical wrote:

ohh so do those tomahawk missles have nuclear warheads or other?

No nukes, they have 1000 pounds of high explosives in thier warhead.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

had enough wrote:

I wonder how easy it was to have prior access to the area that was bombed with the release of the nerve gas. I was thinking how effective an operation it would have been if ISIS had planted nerve gas itself or with explosives, and then "leaked" the location so it would be bombed. That would depend totally on access, but if that kind of thing happened whoever planned it probably would have gotten several promotions at once. That's the best thing that could have happened for those fucking insane freaks, since they probably bet they could trick the idiot buffoon trump in to doing something stupid.

I know the people affected by the gas aren't ISIS, I mean if they infiltrated to plant the material.

I don't know but the Penagon just briefed the press they have radar and infared imaging of the Syrian aircraft taking off from that now bombed airfield, flying to that city, dropping bombs and shooting rockets into the areas that were gassed and then returing to that airbase. on the day and time the people started reacting ot being gassed...  

That's what CNN just briefed... I have no comment on this yet.

Jingles

Oh hey guys, how y'all been?

I vaguely recall a while ago when a bunch of progressive babblers were baying for humanitarian intervention because the evil dictator was slaughtering His Own People. How did that Libya thing turn out, after all that?

I kinda lost interest in the whole charade of left/right political bullshit after all that. I'm just curious if this means that Donald Trump is Good with the humanitarian liberals now.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Trump is good for nobody...

bekayne

Thank God Killary wasn't elected. She would have bombed Syria.

NDPP

 

US Missile Strike Against Syria: 

https://www.rt.com/news/383785-us-missiles-syrian-army/

Live Updates...

How the Neocons Are Tempting Trump on Syria

http://www.geopolitica.ru/en/article/how-neocons-are-tempting-trump-syria

"It looks like a single false flag chemical weapons attack was all that it took to get Trump to surrender to the neoconservative foreign policy advocated by the previous administration's 'deep state' holdovers..."

josh

Job approval numbers had far more to do with it than any neo-con pressure.

had enough

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

had enough wrote:

I wonder how easy it was to have prior access to the area that was bombed with the release of the nerve gas. I was thinking how effective an operation it would have been if ISIS had planted nerve gas itself or with explosives, and then "leaked" the location so it would be bombed. That would depend totally on access, but if that kind of thing happened whoever planned it probably would have gotten several promotions at once. That's the best thing that could have happened for those fucking insane freaks, since they probably bet they could trick the idiot buffoon trump in to doing something stupid.

I know the people affected by the gas aren't ISIS, I mean if they infiltrated to plant the material.

I don't know but the Penagon just briefed the press they have radar and infared imaging of the Syrian aircraft taking off from that now bombed airfield, flying to that city, dropping bombs and shooting rockets into the areas that were gassed and then returing to that airbase. on the day and time the people started reacting ot being gassed...

Thank you so much for telling me that but I already knew it. I know missiles were fired, if there was planted material and the location leaked, when the missiles hit and gas dispersed, it would appear to be from the missile but actually was from material planted on the ground. The sequence of events are very suspicious, and since trump was already backing off and assad was winning on the ground, the fact it was a terrible gas like sarin and children were involved makes it highly suspect. ISIS would gain greatly by a war between Syria and US, and it's something they could and would do.

I just bet someone that there's going to be another "gas attack" fairly soon. If assad did the sarin attack he should be skinned alive, but don't be played for a fool. Whether or not you hate someone can't define how you see reality.

6079_Smith_W

That's not the most amazing part. I can't imagine the organizing it must have taken for Hillary to get over there and plant this false flag, direct all the fake coverage, then make it back in time to orchestrate the deep state takeover and launch this air strike.

 

Mobo2000

Looks like our little president has all grown up.   He's now a war criminal along with Obama, Bush, Clinton and the rest.

I think the folks here hoping that Trump is impeached for being a Russian spy can put those hopes to rest.   The media pivot is coming, and soon there will be more pundits than Van Jones talking about Trump's presidential air.   Nothing swells the patriotic american media's breast more than a good bombing. 

Hey Smith, how did the results of your investigation go?   Can you confirm for me that it was in fact Syria that used the chemical weapons?  I'd rather not wait for the Pentagon to show me their radar images.

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