War in Syria

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NDPP

Syrian Militants Behead, Shoot Civilians, Video Shows

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/03/11/292972/syria-militants-behead-s...

But don't worry, they're FSA, Canada supports them...

NDPP

Hugh Segal: We Must Intervene in Syria to Protect Ourselves

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/03/13/hugh-segal-we-must-interv...

"...It is not too late to engage. A coalition composed of Arab and NATO countries could still intervene decisively..."

 

Syrian Kids Bear Brunt of 2 Yr. Violence

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/03/13/293343/syrian-kids-bear-brunt-o...

"Save the Children said on Wednesday that new research carried out among Syrian refugess in Turkey, revealed that one in every three Syrian children have been tortured, raped or shot at..."

Somalization of Syria and proxy war against Iran continues..

 

Fidel

“Another Type of Warfare” in Syria: Washington’s Support to Insurgents, Subversives and Assassins

Quote:
While the CIA has purportedly claimed to distribute arms only to “secular” and “moderate” rebel forces, Washington insiders from various academic and think-tank circles have openly endorsed bizarre positions in favor of integrating terrorists into Syria’s rebel forces.

“Al-Qaeda’s Specter in Syria [3],” penned by Council on Foreign Relations senior fellow Ed Husain, argues in favor of Al-Qaeda terrorists and their inclusion in the Free Syrian Army, stating, “The influx of jihadis brings discipline, religious fervor, battle experience from Iraq, funding from Sunni sympathizers in the Gulf, and most importantly, deadly results. In short, the FSA needs al-Qaeda now.”

Foreign Policy’s, “Two Cheers for Syrian Islamists [4],” penned by Gary Gambill of the heavily neo-conservative Middle East Forum, argues in favor of Al-Qaeda, “Islamists — many of them hardened by years of fighting U.S. forces in Iraq — are simply more effective fighters than their secular counterparts. Assad has had extraordinary difficulty countering tactics perfected by his former jihadist allies, particularly suicide bombings and roadside bombs.”_

Al-CIA-Da HQ Pentagon

NDPP

Syrian Fighters Burning Books in Reqqa (and vid)

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Syrian-fighters-burning-bo-by-Lilly-Mar...

"The smell of burning books hangs over the city of Raqqa, Syria. On March 4, 2013 the rebel fighters occpied the city of Raqaa, which is in the far North East province of Syria, and took the governor hostage. Thousands of innocent civilians are now under the occupation of armed fighters.

These rebels are The Free Syrian Army, Jibhat al Nusra and Al Qaeda. These three armed Islamic terrorist groups are united as the armed wing of the Syrian National Coalition, headed by Moaz al Khatib, who is a Muslim Brotherhood cleric..."

Fidel

The cold war never ended, and NATO's road Eastward is paved with support of neoliberal economic policies for destroying economies, and when that doesn't work fast enough the Gladio Gang Inc. fund and support right wing fundamentalists and terrorism. 

colder war = neoliberalism + terrorism

NDPP

The Syrian Diary (and vid)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-VCQMR009U

Must-watch doco on Syria

 

Syrian Girl - 'They are trying to partition Syria' (and vid)

https://therebel.org/mideast/589430-syrian-girl-they-are-trying-to-parti...

"Nato likes to partition countries: Sudan, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq..."

NDPP

Drone Strikes in Syria?

http://rt.com/news/syria-usa-rebel-drone-356/

"CIA 'boosting' intelligence force to 'size up' Syrian extremists. The CIA may be preparing for lethal drone strikes in Syria..."

 

Russian Security Council Emergency Meeting as Russian Warships Arrive in Syria

http://nsnbc.me/2013/03/16/russian-security-council-emergency-meeting-as...

"The situation between Russia and the USA, EU, NATO, as well as the allied Gulf Arab states Qatar and Saudi Arabia has been rapidly deteriorating..."

 

Lebanon Army to Stop  Militants from Infiltrating Syria?

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/03/16/293925/lebanon-to-block-militan...

"Sulaiman said the stability of  Lebanon depends 'on all of us not sending militants to Syria, and not receiving them...we must commit ourselves to neutrality. The president said he had tasked the army with 'the arrest of any militants intending to fight (in Syria). Whether for the opposition or not.'

The comments came after Damascus warned on Thursday that its troops would fire into Lebanon if terrorist groups continued to infiltrate Syria. 'These past 36 hours, armed terrorist gangs have infiltrated Syrian territory in large numbers from Lebanon,' the Syrian Foreign Ministry said in a statement."

NDPP

Israel, Obama and Other People' Oil

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/03/201331785837128494.html

"If the US stops Genie Energy from going ahead with an oil contract, it invites the wrath of myriad pro-Israel groups. And if the administration ignores the oil deal, it leaves US corporations exposed to potential lawsuits for profiteering from Israel's violation of human rights and international law.

The company is headed by former Israeli minister of infrastructure Effie Eidam, who lives in one of the illegal settlements on the Globan Heights, and includes former vice president Dick Cheney as an advisor, and Rupert Murdoch as a shareholder.

Israel's drilling award is cetainly a gift to the global BDS movement.."

NDPP

Syrian Warplanes Strike Lebanon Border

http://rt.com/news/syria-planes-bomb-lebanon-434/

"Syrian planes have bombed a Lebanese border town in eastern Bekka Valley..'

 

Israeli Jets Fire Flares Over Southern Lebanon

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/03/18/294289/israeli-jets-fire-flare-...

NDPP

US-Led West, Arab Puppets Arming Syria Militants: Eric Draitser (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/03/23/294914/britain-france-supply-ar...

"A political analyst tells Press TV that the US, Britain and France have been arming and financing the Syrian opposition all along and they are hell-bent on creating war in Syria.."

 

International Recruiting of Syria Mercenaries in Africa and Asia by Al Qaeda Continues  -  by Christof Lehman

http://nsnbc.me/2013/03/23/international-recruiting-of-syria-mercenaries...

"...Africans from the Maghreb are systematically being targeted for recruitment as mercenaries for the foreign backed subversion. The recruiting is taking place through Al Qaeda operatives and the AQ operatives have ties to governments."

 

A Draft-Dodging, Zionist Friendly, Rightwing Texan Islamist to Lead Syria?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/03/22/a-draft-dodging-zionist-friendly-...

"...Installing Hitto, 'should keep hope alive and we should not give up,' according to our Ambassador in Beirut, Maury Connelly. 'Look what we achieved in Libya,' she lectured a visiting delegation recently..."

 

Syria Teeters on Obama's 'Red Line'  -  by Nile Bowie

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/03/22/syria-teeters-on-obamas-red-line/

"...Obama is now in a position to act on his statements and intervene more boldly and directly than the US has already been doing since the beginning of the conflict. Additionally, NATO personnel have also indicated that they are prepared to employ a wide range of operations. US-European Command Admiral James Stavridis recently told media that the alliance was 'prepared, if called upon, to be engaged as we were in Libya..."

NDPP

Israel to 'Immediately' Respond to All Syrian Cross Border Shooting

http://rt.com/news/israel-response-gunfire-syria-744/

"Israel will 'immediately' respond to Syria gunfire on the border of Israeli-occupied Golan Heights, stated new Defence Minister Moshe Yaalan. The statement come after Israel returned fire from over the border, wounding two Syrian soldiers..."

NDPP

Israel Laying Foundation for Syria Intervention: Ala'a Ibrahim (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/03/26/295226/israel-preparing-for-syr...

"An analyst says the Israeli regime has established ties with militants in Syria as Tel Aviv is laying down the groundwork for a forthcoming intervention in the Arab country.."

NDPP

12 Killed in Damascus University Shelling - Syrian State TV

http://rt.com/news/syria-university-shell-students-987/

"Twelve people have been killed when mortar shells struck the campus of Damascus University, says Syrian state TV. The blast also injured at least 20 others..."

don't worry Canada, these bombers, head choppers and throat slitters are on 'our' side and this is the 'Arab Spring' right?

NDPP

Arab League Gives Syria Seat to Opposition (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/Program/295640.html

"On Tuesday, Syria's foreign-backed opposition bloc, known as the National Coalition, took Syria's seat during the Arab League annual summit held in the Qatari capital, Doha." George Galloway discusses Syria and Israel...

North Star

NDPP wrote:

12 Killed in Damascus University Shelling - Syrian State TV

http://rt.com/news/syria-university-shell-students-987/

"Twelve people have been killed when mortar shells struck the campus of Damascus University, says Syrian state TV. The blast also injured at least 20 others..."

don't worry Canada, these bombers, head choppers and throat slitters are on 'our' side and this is the 'Arab Spring' right?

]

What about your side NDPP? Is it it that easy to be on the side of the comprador bourgeoisie that has cheered on Assad's neoliberal reforms? The merchant class remains one of Assad's bastions of support - the polarization that has led to this situation isn't only a product of the Arab Spring or your paranoid CIA fantasies, it's a result of the decline of living standards for Syrian workers.

Is it easy to be on the side of a regime that has collaborated with American imperialism during the first Gulf War and during extraordinary rendition program during the War on Terror? 

Is it easy to be on the side of a regime that has undermined the Palestinian national movement when it has become too radical? You can't wish away Black September.

Have the anti-Assad forces committed atrocities? Absolutely. It's not particularly unusual in a war for both sides to do so even if one side supposedly has the moral high ground.

This is nothing more than a sign of how useless the left in the west can be. We are denying the agency of Syrians who oppose Assad. These Syrians are sure as hell not on the CIA payroll. There are FSA units of every religious and ethnic group. Remeber when the left used to cheer on democratic revolutions? 

Supporting democracy in Syria is not the same as cheering on NATO intervention and if you can't see the difference in that you really aren't in any place to be giving political analysis.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

The problem is there are actually multiple factions within the structure of the FSA and anyone can pick and choose any of them to support their argument as to what the FSA is. Some of them are or have had acquaintances with Al Qaida and it is these units that many (here) point to as proof the FSA are the bad guys.

Its a few rotten apples spoil the whole bunch mentality but still; fear that Islamist would dominate a post Assad Syria is a valid concern. I for one do not see a favorable outcome for Syria should Assad fall in military defeat.  

NDPP

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

 I for one do not see a favorable outcome for Syria should Assad fall in military defeat.  

I for two...

NDPP

How Obama Chose War Over Peace in Syria  -  by Shamus Cooke

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/03/29/how-obama-chose-war-over-peace-in...

"With Syria on the brink of national genocide, outside nations have only two options: help reverse the catastrophe or plunge this torn nation deeper into the abyss.."

NDPP

RT: Crosstalk - Syria As Proxy (and vid)

http://rt.com/shows/crosstalk/syria-israel-golan-heights-877/

"What is Israel's role in the Syrian civil war? What is their hidden agenda?"

North Star

Quote:

As we insist, in the present very special circumstances, on the direct right of the Syrian people to affirm its right of self-determination before the international community, we assure that all calls based on the ground of “droit d’ingérance,” “devoir d’ingérance,” “humanitarian intervention” or “responsibility to protect” should not hinder the aspiration of the Syrian people to cause peaceful change by its own forces; or lead to dealing with the Syrian people as yet another sphere of influence in the game of nations. Every day, the demonstrators in Syrian towns and villages chant the motto “The People Wants…” The People Wants emancipation from authoritarian rule. It wants to take and hold the initiative in decision making in public affairs, in an independent and peaceful way, in order to determine all aspects of its public life freely and deliberatively. It also wants to maintain friendly relations among nations. The Syrian People does not want to substitute authoritarian rule by submission to foreign influence. The Syrian People extracted its independence and founded its modern State. It aspires to liberate all its lands and chiefly the Golan. It aspires to continue supporting the struggle of peoples for self-determination, and chiefly that of the Palestinian People. As the Syrian People is revolting against its oppressive rulers, it will not hesitate to revolt against all forms of foreign domination.

http://www.lccsyria.org/2322

“There will be No Sectarian State in Syria” 

http://yallasouriya.wordpress.com/2013/03/09/latest-developments-in-the-...

Rikardo

Question to North Star:  What percentage of the "Syrian people" wanted this bloody civil war ?

North Star

Rikardo wrote:

Question to North Star:  What percentage of the "Syrian people" wanted this bloody civil war ?

What percentage of Syrians want to live under Assad's dictatorship?

Seriously, no one wants violence but it has become clear that there was no other way to get rid of Assad.

NDPP

  and Saddam, the Taliban and Gadhafi too right?

General Wesley Clark: Seven Countries in Five Years

http://www.youtube.com/v/9RC1Mepk_Sw

don't believe everything they tell you

 

Syria 'A Systematic Violation of the Convention Against the Use of Mercenaries - by Christof Lehman

http://nsnbc.me/2013/03/26/us-weapons-deliveries-to-terrorists-in-syria-...

"A New York Times (NYT) article reveals CIA involvement in weapons deliveries to the Syrian insurgents. Weapons which among others, end up in the hands of the Syrian Al-Qaeda branch Jabhat al-Nusra. As much as the NYT may want to portray arms shipments by plane as spectacular, it hardly touches the surface of the criminal attempt of the US and NATO allies, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Israel, post-coup Libya and others, to systematically manufacture a low intensity conflict with the help of well-financed and armed proxies, for the purpose of preventing the completion of the PARS gas-pipeline, to balkanize Syria and Iraq, create a Kurdish Corridor, and to create the preconditions for a war on Iran and other conflicts along the soft, resource-rich under belly of Russia and China..."

 

A Syrian's Perspective: Democracy vs Foreign Invasion - Who is Bashar Al Assad?  -  by Arabi Souri

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34489.htm

"Bashar al Assad has recently been demonized by the mainstream and so-called alternative media who claim that he is a brutal dictator. Actually Bashar is a reformer who has done much to further the cause of democracy and freedom. It is the opposition and their foreign supporters who represent the most repressive elements of the former ruling party in Syria..."

NDPP

Syria is a Battle For Palestine

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34481.htm

"Assad punished for refusing to turn away from Palestinians"

North Star

NDPP, you cart out all the stuff you want from the globalresearch.ca tin foil hat brigade with its shameful apologism for Assad and and it's unending paranoia that the CIA is everywhere and responsible for everything.

Why is it particularly damning to the whole Syrian resistance for the US to be training parts of the resistance? It's an empire. It's going to try to influence events how it can but that doesn't mean it has total control over the opposition. It's also been trying to keep arms away from certain Islamist elements of the resistance as well.

There's is a secular democratic resistance that rejects foreign intervention that should be supported by every left wing internationalist out there. It's is absolutely mind boggling how people can come out and support a regime that is practically a hereditary monarchy that has been pushing through neoliberal reforms for the last decade.

That people in a dictatorship can't resist it because the CIA may get involve to try to advance their own interests denies the agency of people in the Thrid World (for lack of a better term) and is basically racist - every democratic upsurge by the Arabs is being controlled out of the Pentagon. 

And as for Syrian-Palestinian solidarity, that's laughable. The record of Syria standing up for the Palestinians is pathetic. They've bank rolled only Palestinian organizations that serve their purpose. This is the same regime that intervened in the Lebanese Civil War initially on the side of the Christians against the Palestinians and the Lebanese Nationalist Movement. It was Hafez al-Assad refusal to dispatch the Syrian air force that saved the reactionary Jordanian Monarchy from being overthrown, and Hafez used the Syrian failure during Black September to gain the presidency in Syria. The Baathist regime are opportunists same regime that collaborated with the US during the first Gulf War, and the regime was probably more than willing to throw the Palestinians under the bus in order to get the Golan Heights back.

If I were the Palestinians, I wouldn't trust Syria. The regime is collapsing under its contradictions and the Arab Spring. It's managed to last this long precisely because the Assad family has been able to do backroom deals with the US & Israel and to keep the Palestinians and other Arab nationalist movements in line.

NDPP

North Star wrote:

 The regime is collapsing under its contradictions and the Arab Spring.

 

Clearly rather a controlled demolition directed for and from outside. 'The Arab Spring' (TM) turns out to have been spring-loaded in favour of Western geopolitical objectives

Clashes Between Syria Army Militants Intensify in Capital (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/04/04/296400/syrian-army-militants-st...

"Armed mean have obtained very advanced sniper rifles on which they rely heavily in their attacks. They are militants from different countries..."

Rikardo

Reply to North Star:

Given a choice between continuing to live under the Assad government or enduring this bloody civil war, polls have shown that the majority preferred the government with all its faults to the bloody civil war.  The opposition has been preparing this violent overthrow of the government for a while, often with Western (especially French) encouragement.  Now NATO has (so far) “let them down.” Some of you “Che Guevara’s (or Susan Rice’s) should go to Syria and join the Free Syrian Army and kill a few soldiers and government supporters for ‘democracy’ (Western style).  Then go and ‘liberate’  Iran.

North Star

NDPP wrote:

North Star wrote:

 The regime is collapsing under its contradictions and the Arab Spring.

 

Clearly rather a controlled demolition directed for and from outside. 'The Arab Spring' (TM) turns out to have been spring-loaded in favour of Western geopolitical objectives

Clashes Between Syria Army Militants Intensify in Capital (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/04/04/296400/syrian-army-militants-st...

"Armed mean have obtained very advanced sniper rifles on which they rely heavily in their attacks. They are militants from different countries..."

Press TV is as about as credible as the New York Times.

And are you suggesting that Arabs are too weak and unable to overthrow dictatorships? Shameful.

North Star

Rikardo wrote:

Reply to North Star:

Given a choice between continuing to live under the Assad government or enduring this bloody civil war, polls have shown that the majority preferred the government with all its faults to the bloody civil war.  The opposition has been preparing this violent overthrow of the government for a while, often with Western (especially French) encouragement.  Now NATO has (so far) “let them down.” Some of you “Che Guevara’s (or Susan Rice’s) should go to Syria and join the Free Syrian Army and kill a few soldiers and government supporters for ‘democracy’ (Western style).  Then go and ‘liberate’  Iran.

Has it ever occured to you or have you ever ventured out of your globalresearch.ca bubble to know that there are many dedicated Iranian socialists who loathe both the Islamic Republic and reject any sort of Western intervention in Iran? I'm sorry if that's too complex a concept for some.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

I think it’s not so much too weak as it is too gullible so as to be duped into doing the West's dirty work (what they are suggesting).

This mostly comes from thinking there’s only two entities fighting here: Pro Western and Pro anti-Imperialist. There can’t possibly be a third or even fourth player or reason involved in all this so it has to be (of course) all the evil West’s doing via foolish young Arab men. Most here completely ignore, marginalize or dismiss the Shia/Sunni divide that is very evident in this civil war.

North Star

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

I think it’s not so much too weak as it is too gullible so as to be duped into doing the West's dirty work (what they are suggesting).

This mostly comes from thinking there’s only two entities fighting here: Pro Western and Pro anti-Imperialist. There can’t possibly be a third or even fourth player or reason involved in all this so it has to be (of course) all the evil West’s doing via foolish young Arab men. Most here completely ignore, marginalize or dismiss the Shia/Sunni divide that is very evident in this civil war.

There is certainly a Sunni vs. Shia/Alawite dynamic yes. However it's not completely binary either. There are Christian and Alawite units of the FSA too despite the feeling that most of these groups are loyal to Assad.

There are different forces at work beyond Yankee imperialism. The Baathists have collaborated with imperialism before but people seem to want to overlook that. The Americans and Israelis are prepared to accept Assad remaining in power if it lessens the regime's influence in Lebanon for example. Hamas has already turned on the Assad regime. The Americans are happy to hedge their bets. They are giving some training to limited anti-Assad forces that they think they can trust to further open up the economy and play nice with Israel if Assad falls. If the Americans truly wanted Assad gone they could start arming the FSA with SAM and other sorts of sophisticated weaponry. It hasn't happened and I don't think it's going to.

sherpa-finn

Just a quick word of congratulations to North Star for 'belling the cat' on this thread...  my working assumption has been that NDPP is working on commission (paid by the number of links posted) by Lyndon Larouche or whoever has since inherited the mantle of pseudo-leftist global conspiracy wingnut. 

(Nothing personal, of course. I'd say the same thing about any Babbler who linked us daily to articles from News International,- in that case, suspecting Rupert Murdoch of being the paymaster.)

That said, North Star, I wouldn't invest too much time or energy trying to argue facts or change minds on this one. Once the kool-aid has been drunk....

NDPP

deleted

NDPP

Ex CNN Reporter Ordered to Manipulate News on Syria and Iran

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1304/S00003/ex-cnn-reporter-ordered-to-...

"Ex-CNN reporter Amber Lyon revealed that during her work for the channel she received orders to send false news and exclude some others which the US administration did not favor, with the aim to create a public opinion in favor of launching an aggression on Iran and Syria..."

 

Has the Arab League Mortally Wounded Itself By Declaring War on Syria  -   by Franklin Lamb

http://uprootedpalestinians.blogspot.ca/2013/03/has-arab-league-mortally...

"...It is Syria, along with Palestine, out of all the 22 Arab League members, who most consistently and steadfastly has represented Arab nationalism, Arab resistance to occupation, and the stated goals enunciated 65 years ago when the Arab League was established"

Rikardo

Here in Quebec the only news on Syria the Devoir (Montreal's leftish intellectual newspaper) gives us is from Agence-France-Presse who gets their info from L'Observoire syrien de Droits de l'homme whose bias is never questioned.  They seem to be the voice of the non-religious opposition.

I don't often look ar globalresearch.ca prefering antiwar.com or counterpunch and I know that there are dedicated Syrian socialists who reject outside intervention. I doubt they started this terrible war which most Syrians didn't want but which may continue until we "get rid of" Assad (as we did with Saddam and Ghadafi) and what the Devoir edtorials called for.

North Star

Rikardo wrote:

Here in Quebec the only news on Syria the Devoir (Montreal's leftish intellectual newspaper) gives us is from Agence-France-Presse who gets their info from L'Observoire syrien de Droits de l'homme whose bias is never questioned.  They seem to be the voice of the non-religious opposition.

I don't often look ar globalresearch.ca prefering antiwar.com or counterpunch and I know that there are dedicated Syrian socialists who reject outside intervention. I doubt they started this terrible war which most Syrians didn't want but which may continue until we "get rid of" Assad (as we did with Saddam and Ghadafi) and what the Devoir edtorials called for.

I don't doubt many anti-Assad Syrians didn't want a war. However, this whole uprising began with protests calling for reform. The state responded in it's usual fashion. Here's a good article on this:

Quote:

http://nplusonemag.com/background-to-a-revolution

Daraa’ is a small, dusty town in southeast Syria, close to the Jordanian border. I visited in June 2010 for the first cultural festival there. Electronic Dabke music was the order of the night, with keyboard players and dancers flanked by images of Assad and his father, Hafez. Like the rest of rural Syria, it was generally seen as supportive of the Baath regime as a result of the support and subsidies it received. However, over the past decade, these subsidies have been gradually stripped away. Daraa’s resources have also been massively stretched by a recent influx of internal refugees, who were forced to leave their land as a result of a drought in the northeast of the country. This strain has been exacerbated by the government’s lack of provision for the refugees, which it justifies by grossly understating the magnitude of the drought. 

These were some of the factors that led a group of schoolchildren, the eldest aged 15, to write, “The People want the fall of the regime”—the catchphrase of the revolutionary Middle East—on the wall of their school on March 6t. The children were subsequently arrested and tortured. Their families were denied access to them, as is usual in the case of political prisoners in Syria.

Unionist

North Star wrote:

Supporting democracy in Syria is not the same as cheering on NATO intervention and if you can't see the difference in that you really aren't in any place to be giving political analysis.

Some of us don't think it's our place to support "democracy" (whatever the hell that means) in Syria. Some of us believe it's very wrong for imperialist countries like Canada or the U.S. or France or the U.K. to cheer on one faction or another in a civil war, especially when we have seen these powers directly or via NATO committing aggression against Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and supporting Israeli aggression against the Palestinian people and its neighbouring states... and preparing the terrain for war against Iran.

I don't support democracy in Syria. I support the right of the Syrian people to determine their affairs without any foreign intervention whatsoever. I certainly don't believe you, any more than the rest of us, have a single thing to teach the Syrian people about democracy. And if you can't see the difference in that you really aren't in any place to be giving political analysis.

North Star

Unionist wrote:

North Star wrote:

Supporting democracy in Syria is not the same as cheering on NATO intervention and if you can't see the difference in that you really aren't in any place to be giving political analysis.

Some of us don't think it's our place to support "democracy" (whatever the hell that means) in Syria. Some of us believe it's very wrong for imperialist countries like Canada or the U.S. or France or the U.K. to cheer on one faction or another in a civil war, especially when we have seen these powers directly or via NATO committing aggression against Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and supporting Israeli aggression against the Palestinian people and its neighbouring states... and preparing the terrain for war against Iran.

I don't support democracy in Syria. I support the right of the Syrian people to determine their affairs without any foreign intervention whatsoever. I certainly don't believe you, any more than the rest of us, have a single thing to teach the Syrian people about democracy. And if you can't see the difference in that you really aren't in any place to be giving political analysis.

Well Unionist, what do you think Syrians opposed Assad want? Am I telling Syrians that they need to have a federal or unitary state? A parliamentary republic or presidential one? Am I telling them to have a House of Commons or workers' councils? Syrians deciding their own fate against a bureaucratic dictatorship is democracy. It's the people deciding their fate. That's democracy to me and there are many different institutional forms it may take.

Of course it's wrong for one imperialist side to cheer on the other, but that is going to happen as long as imperialism exists. My solidarity is with those opposing the Assad regime who wish to finish the job without NATO missiles.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Unionist, that’s your opinion and I know it well. I just don’t see how the non interventionism/isolationism you preach here is possible in the shrinking geo-political world of today given the world economy. I’m afraid you’re fighting human nature and not just imperialism.

Still, good luck with that fight, at least your persistent and constant, I can respect that.

North Star

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Unionist, that’s your opinion and I know it well. I just don’t see how the non interventionism/isolationism you preach here is possible in the shrinking geo-political world of today given the world economy. I’m afraid you’re fighting human nature and not just imperialism.

Still, good luck with that fight, at least your persistent and constant, I can respect that.

Right, that's something I totally forgot. We've seen an ability in the past couple of years to see coordinated activism on an international scale never before seen. Effective stratagies and tactics manage to diffuse over international borders very quickly now.

Fidel

North Star & Bec, it appears you are vastly outnumbered by Unionist and NDPP. Give up now while you can and save us the bother of cleaning your bodies from side of the road.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Fidel must be drunker than I am tonight... he's seeing vast numbers of 2.Laughing

NDPP

President Bashar Al-Assad Interview with Turkish Ulusal TV Station (and vid)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_Hui-Vj4yI

Part 1

",,,the coming of a president or the departure of one is an internal Syrian decision."

 

sherpa-finn

Unionist: I don't support democracy in Syria. I support the right of the Syrian people to determine their affairs without any foreign intervention whatsoever.

Just wondering Unionist, if the expression 'international solidarity' means anything to you? (Or does the Unionist reference have more to do with Ulster politics than working class resistance.)

Back in the day, many of us cut our international teeth in solidarity movements working in support of people's rights to self-determination around the world.  This is a long-standing tradition on the Left and often involved making difficult choices ... ANC vs PAC, violence vs non-violence, etc.  And on occasions it connected the dots and joined forces between social movements and state actors.

Are you making the case that the preferred option now is non-interventionist / isolationist? Seems a bizarre response to an ever integrating, increasingly inter-dependent world. But happy to hear the logic ....  its just not my inherent nature to go all warm and fuzzy thinking about "impartiality and neutrality" when I see the tanks and jets of dictators pounding their own cities, or oligarchs starving their people.

MegB

Great. Babble is now host to a frat party pissing contest. Do any of you have any sense of how reactionary - not to mention ridiculous - this 'discussion' is? Do any of you have any idea how absurd it is for you to be discussing what is best for Syrians while throwing around the term 'imperialist' from your safe, comfy and bomb-free armchairs?

Just once I'd like to drop one of you into a real combat zone and see how long it takes for you to drop the macho posturing idiocy that dominates this board.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

sherpa-finn wrote:

its just not my inherent nature to go all warm and fuzzy thinking about "impartiality and neutrality" when I see the tanks and jets of dictators pounding their own cities, or oligarchs starving their people.

So where are your posts decrying the Saudi or Bahrain regimes? How about Honduras, what do you think about that Canadian trading partner that just had a coup backed by our corporations and now has state sponsored death squads roaming the country?  How about India which definitely has an oligarchy that is starving its people. Did you find it really "heartwarming" in a warm and fuzzy way to see Canadian union made, light armored vehicles rolling into Bahrain to crush their peaceful democracy movement.

Your call for violence in Syria is at best misguided unless you are calling for helping armed resistance in other countries as well. Personally I think we need to reign in the arms manufacturers and they are primarily American with Canada becoming a bigger player all the time. 

Fidel

Most Syrians back President Assad, but you'd never know from western media Jan 2012

Quote:
Suppose a respectable opinion poll found that most Syrians are in favour of Bashar al-Assad remaining as president, would that not be major news?

 Apparently they don't want Syria transformed into a base for U.S.-backed militant Islam now, like Bosnia through Libya,  but perhaps later after months and months of their country being laid siege to by Al Qaeda and other western-backed terrorists.

Syrian Armenian Refugees Back President Assad

Western Christian fundamentalists supporting the murder of other Christians in Syria. Nice stuff.

"And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached Bombay
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah" - Sympathy for the Devil

Let's have some sympathy, please!

 

North Star

Rebecca, before you go on about macho posturing which I have no doubt exists on this board, perhaps you should ask if any of us have families and friends who have suffered from war. I sure do. It's why I am in Canada. I have friends that have been tortured and family members either killed or permanently disabled because of it. It's very much a reason why I am a socialist but I'm not so naive to think that we can all hold hands and abolish war because we know how destructive and dehumanizing it is. When I see peoples longing to overthrow a dictatorship my solidarity is naturally with them despite the risks.

Unionist

Rebecca West wrote:

Great. Babble is now host to a frat party pissing contest. Do any of you have any sense of how reactionary - not to mention ridiculous - this 'discussion' is? Do any of you have any idea how absurd it is for you to be discussing what is best for Syrians while throwing around the term 'imperialist' from your safe, comfy and bomb-free armchairs?

Not sure what you're talking about. My viewpoint is precisely that we Canadians should not be discussing what is best for Syrians. As for the term "imperialist", if you have a problem with it, why not just spell it out instead of adopting a tone of degradation and ridicule?

Quote:
Just once I'd like to drop one of you into a real combat zone and see how long it takes for you to drop the macho posturing idiocy that dominates this board.

I grew up in poverty, the child of parents all of whose direct relatives - all - were murdered, as civilians, in a "real combat zone". Would you like to drop me into another one - or would we draw short straws to see who goes?

There is an important conversation going on here (even though there have been one or two stupid disruptive comments), namely, what should be the stand and attitude of progressive people in the imperialist (sorry) heartland toward civil conflicts like the one under way in Syria. This is not an idle debate, as your "macho posturing idiocy" comment would appear to imply. It is a debate which directly impacts how we try to influence the policies of our own government.

 

North Star

Unionist, I agree with most of your previous comment. Thank you.

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