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Whatever Happened to the Arab Spring?

NDPP
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Joined: Dec 27 2008

Whatever Happened to the Arab Spring?  -  by Ismael Hossein Zadeh

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/04/13/whatever-happened-to-the-arab-spr...

"...Caught off guard by the initial wave of the Arab Spring in Egypt and Tunisia, the US and its allies struck back with a vengeance. They employed a number of simultaneous tactics to sabotage the Arab Spring.

These included (1) instigating fake instances of the Arab Spring in countries that were/are headed by insubordinate regimes such as those ruling Iran, Syria and Libya; (2) co-opting revolutionary movements in countries such as Egypt, Tunisia and Yemen; (3) crushing pro-democracy movements against 'friendly' regimes ruling countries such as Bahrain, Jordan and Saudi Arabia 'before they get out of hand,' as they did in Egypt and Tunisia; and (4) using the age-old divide and rule trick by playing the sectarian trump card of Sunni vs Shias or Iranian vs. Arabs.."


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NDPP
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Joined: Dec 27 2008

National Strike, Protests and Clashes as Tunisia Mourns for Assassinated Opposition Leader (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/tunisia-belaid-funeral-protests-741/

"A regional strike, riots, teargas and petrol bombs marred Belaid's funeral, threatening the country with a new revolution. Belaid, who was shot dead on Wednesday, was an extremely vocal, very harsh critic of the government, particularly of the ruling Enhanda party, the Tunisian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood..."


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Whatever you do don't call it the "NATO Spring" lest you be accused of denigrating legitimate resistance movements funded by the CIA and wild-wild west NATO outlaws.

Because that's what desperately poor people do when oppressed by foreigners - send "19 radicalized Muslims with boxcutters" no less to attack New York City and the Pentagon. It was just a matter of time before 19 of their freedom fighting jihadi mercenaries on the U.S. Government payroll gave them a helping hand.

If desperately poor people around the world didn't hate us for our freedums before 9/11, they surely do now. Because now we have a whole lot of freedums and more than our fair share.

The glasnost is half full.


Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

OK, Fidel, there may have been CIA meddling(we still need to abolish the CIA, after all).


But are you actually saying there was NOTHING legitimate in the revolts?  That the people of those countries actually didn't want to be rid of the existing kleptocrats?

Couldn't there have been the CIA, but also REAL people revolting for valid reasons?

Plus, desperately poor people are never helped or even cared-about by bastards like Mubarak or Assad.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Ken Burch wrote:

OK, Fidel, there may have been CIA meddling(we still need to abolish the CIA, after all).

Agreed, and we should work to abolish or dissolve NATO eventually, too.


Ken Burch wrote:
But are you actually saying there was NOTHING legitimate in the revolts?  That the people of those countries actually didn't want to be rid of the existing kleptocrats?

Thank you for the opportunity to explain. No, I am not saying that legitimate protests are staged by the CIA or anyone else. I think that the CIA and Obama's crew were informed that Mubarak would probably fall. Mubarak was a western stooge, but toward the end he began opposing the imperialist agenda for the Middle East.

I believe it was just another U.S.-backed regime change in Egypt with all the footprints of another US-backed regime change similar to the "Color Revolutions" in Georgia and Ukraine and Green Revolution against Ahmedinejad gone awry in 2009.

Ken Burch wrote:
Couldn't there have been the CIA, but also REAL people revolting for valid reasons?

Plus, desperately poor people are never helped or even cared-about by bastards like Mubarak or Assad.

That's right. But can you imagine a worse scenario for Egyptians,  Syrians, Byelorussans, Afghans and Iranians? Just look at Iraqis today - some have said the torture wasn't as bad under Saddam. And although I don't advocate for the Belarusan government, they would still be better off under the current corrupt regime than if they were to endure neoliberal economic reforms which would basically destroy the country and transform the region into another Yugoslavia or Egypt at some point. The new liberal capitalism is designed to first destroy economies which serves purpose numero deux if necessary, and that is to pave the way for NATO interventions.

When the people rebel, we are told that it is "Al Qa'eda" and terrorist groups perp'ing the violence. But they are ordinary people rebelling against intolerable economic reforms. "Al Qa'eda" terrorists are sometimes introduced to the region in order to confuse the situation and provide invitation to U.S. or European military interventions.

What Is the Muslim Brotherhood, and Will It Take Over Egypt? A Mother Jones article by Robert Dreyfuss

It's an eye opening article, Ken.


Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

Don't assume I'm pro-NATO.

And part of this is the old "one man's terrorist is another man's freedm fighter" conundrum.

 


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 27 2008

Ken Burch wrote:

Don't assume I'm pro-NATO.

And part of this is the old "one man's terrorist is another man's freedm fighter" conundrum.

 

For me the problem is mostly not one man's freedom fighter but THE MAN'S terrorists.


Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005

That is a major problem as well.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

I am pretty sure that you are not pro NATO, Ken. For the record I don't know you personally but think you must be a splendid human bean from what you've posted on babble in this and other thread topics of discussion over the last few. Thank you, Ken.

And so all I can do now is continue clicking my clicker, palming therapeutic marbles, and be suspicious of the rest of you CIA plants. And you know who you are. bwahahaha

No that's not what I think about babblers, either. I think some of us on the left may be misled, though, into believing that 9/11 and other false flags since then really are the work of legitimate left wing-ish resistance movements. They want to believe that ordinary people did those things as a result of right wing oppression in the Middle East and Central Asia. IN their minds the hawks and vicious empire had it coming to them. Holy men acted on behalf of all of us in some sort of mission from God scenario. And that is complete bullshit - it is the imperialists own narrative, and we should reject it outright for lack of proof. 

 I believe that even though long-time oppressed people such as Afghans whose countries have been invaded and occupied over time have never, not once, taken their fights to the invaders' homelands and dragged themselves down to the imperialists level. Real truth is at odds with the imperialists ersatz genesis fable at the root of the imperialists military agenda today.

I oppose imperialism, but it doesn't mean that I believe that pious Muslims are terrorists who perpetrated 9/11. There is no proof of that for one thing. No legitiimate court of law in the world would convict their own mercenaries for hire detained at the U.S. Navy base there at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
It seems to me that the 'Arab SprIng' remains quite verdant to religious fundamentalists, and has evolved to the next revolutionary stage of its post-modern rejection of Western rationalism: faith in clerical authority being preferable to corrupt secular dictatorship.

Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Says who, you? There is no proof obtained by forensic or other investigations that says pious Muslims hijacked any planes whatsoever on 9/11.  The U.S. Gov is full of shit. According to FBI director Rob Mueller. they have no proof of any of the alleged hijackers true identities. They have nothing except for a few confessions from former anti-communist mercenaries for hire who once fought for the CIA in 1980's Afghanistan. And that might be useful except for the fact that confessions extracted under torture are not considered proof of anything in a legit court of law.


autoworker
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Joined: Dec 21 2008
Fidel wrote:

Says who, you? There is no proof obtained by forensic or other investigations that says pious Muslims hijacked any planes whatsoever on 9/11.  The U.S. Gov is full of shit. According to FBI director Rob Mueller. they have no proof of any of the alleged hijackers true identities. They have nothing except for a few confessions from former anti-communist mercenaries for hire who once fought for the CIA in 1980's Afghanistan. And that might be useful except for the fact that confessions extracted under torture are not considered proof of anything in a legit court of law.

What does 9/11 have to do with the Arab Spring?

Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

autoworker wrote:
What does 9/11 have to do with the Arab Spring?

And what does religious fundamentalism have to do with the NATO Spring? These were legitimate protests by real people oppressed by a rotten economic system foisted on them by western countries. Religion has nothing to do with it, just like "pious Muslims" had zip to do with 9/11. 

You said religious fundamentalism is preferable to corrupt secular governments.  That is half true. But according to Tariq Ali if you were to ask, for example,  the average person in Pakistan what they desire most, it would be: 1. two meals a day for their families, and 2. secular education with English instruction for their children. But they have little choice other than to send their children to madrasas subsidized by their own corrupt governments backed by the U.S.A. and EU etc, of which teach mainly religious fundamentalism first and foremost and funded by western taxpayers and people like Fethullah Gulen who has some excellent friends in high places in America and other countries.

And you may ask yourself why are there so many madrasas in Pakistan and other deeply corrupt countries friendly with the USA and western countries in general?

And you may ask yourself, why has "Al Qaeda" and religious fundamentalism gained strongholds in the Maghreb, Syria and other countries since Uncle Sam and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan aided and abetted the Talibanization of Pakistan and Afghanistan since the 1980s and 90's? I suppose it depends on how curious one might be regarding real history of all of those countries since 1989 or so. For some of us the curiosity stops there because they don't want to know how western countries heart militant Islam and have encouraged, aided and abetted the proliferation of militant Islam over the creation of secular democracies. In fact to the average onlooker it would appear that western countries have made great efforts to purge secular socialist thought from those areas of the world and especially so since the 1980's and 90's.

And the answer to that question is...? Anyone? Anyone at all? You! Yes, you behind the bikes shed. Stand still, laddy!

 


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