wikileaks - too good to be true?

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siamdave
wikileaks - too good to be true?

Am I the only one wondering if there isn't something a bit fishy with this Wikileaks stuff? There is nothing, at least so far, really damaging to anyone, in the sense that it might spark a mass uprising and popular revolt against the US Hegemony - but there do seem to be a few things that are actually possibly going to help them, at least in terms of pushing "public opinion" in a direction they want it pushed - i.e. the Arab countries (apparently) against Iran???? my my, that certainly hinders the US attempt to vilify the country prior to some kind of attack.... and CSIS and others think Canadians are living in wonderland and need to get serious about 'terrorism' ??? Again - this is detrimental to US interests in what way? It is, actually, a good excuse for the Cdn neocons to 'get more serious' about 'terrorism', etc. And US diplomats insult other countries? This isn't even a surprise - as a PNAC guy said a few years ago, we make history, you deal with it - if you don't like it, who gives a shit? (paraphrasing, but that was the gist). And we might note where all the publicity for Wikileaks comes from - the mainstream media - a mainstream media not given to exposing anything that might actually be harmful to the rulers - we might note their complete stonewalling of anything to do with talking about the stupidity of we the people allowing private banks to create and control our money and the resulting chains we live with, or the blatant nonsense of the official 911 conspiracy theory.

Really, all I see here is more of the same old same old, the mainstream media creating tempests out of teapots, much sound and fury signifying nothing as an earlier observer of human activities observed, whilst keeping the really important stuff out of the public eye.

Bread and circuses. Keeping eyes and brains occupied with trivia whilst the real crimes are carried out behind the scenes where you are NOT invited.

Slumberjack

Despite all the hype, these apparent leaks haven't revealed anything surprising at all thus far.  The media is quite practiced though in cherry picking elements that best support their usual narratives.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

There's more to come. And don't forget the previous releases - one of which showed innocents being gunned down from a US helicopter. Material released on WL is in a way confirming what may have been suspected, and that's a good thing. Look at the US today - Hillary Clinton and others in a rage trying to cover up, much like the Watergate days. That tells you something is amiss.

voice of the damned

It's important to remember that these are diplomatic cables, not transcripts of White House war-room sessions. So, we're not reading stuff by the people who sit around planning US foreign-policy. For the most part, the leaked material just seems to be diplomats passing on impressions about political figures in other countries, as well as things that they've been told by important people in those countries. Pretty much what you'd expect to find in diplomatic cables.

The American ass-covering that's going on probably results more from concerns about diplomatic awkwardness, rather than from any fear that the leaks are going to expose American misdeeds to the cold light of day. It's not gonna be the end of NATO if an American diplomat is quoted as saying that a British cabinet minister is a real Don Juan. Might make any future meetings with said cabinet minister a little on the awkward side, though. (And there could also be blowblack in the domestic politics of some of the countries involved, but it's kind of hard to be specific about any predictions in that area).

Anyone looking to understand the inner-workings of Hegemony would probably be better served by picking up a journalist's book covering the thoughts and actions of the people who are actually in power, making the decisions(eg. the infamous quote from the neo-con Hawk about how "We create our own reality" probably tells you more than fifty pages of diplomats' gossip about what's going on in the corridors of power). Short of another leak something along the lines of the Pentagon Papers, that's probably the closest you're gonna come to a fly-on-the-wall perspective.

Sineed

Also keep in mind that relatively few, if any, of the documents are "top secret;" they're classified, but the person who leaked them didn't have high-level access.

voice of the damned

There's more to come. And don't forget the previous releases - one of which showed innocents being gunned down from a US helicopter.

I agree that Assange isn't playing stoge to the Empire by releasing the stuff that he has. As far as I can tell, he relesase pretty much anything he gets, and lets the chips fall where they may. It's not even quite clear to me if his main concern is to effect a change in government policies, or simply to promote increased transparency.

 

Cueball Cueball's picture

The idea that knowledge is going to effect profound change in society is highly questionable. These revelations pretty much just confirm suspicions of corrupt and duplicitous behaviour is understood by most people. Indeed, most people accept corruption, and most will even engage in it to one degree or another.

What is most significant about the wikileaks project is the act of resistance itself, and the message carried forward is that the powers that be are not invincible.

KenS

"The idea that knowledge is going to effect profound change in society is highly questionable." And across the board, a very deep seated notion on the left: that the facts, or the misrepresentation of the facts, has determining and talismanic powers practically of its own right.

As has been said- none of this is 'Top Secret' stuff. Its the kind of stuff that is the fodder of chatter in the MSM all the time- the more honest appraisals of what is going on.

So all it does is confirm what could previously be dismissed as speculation. It isnt going to open anyone's eyes, or pave the way for interventionist adventures like Iran is next.

I agree with Cue both that people put a misplaced importance in 'what they reveal/illuminate'; and that their real value is just the simple act of exposure and transparency... not the content of the leaks.

Interesting that Danny Williams seemd to have the same reaction.

jas

Actually, I'm a little off topic there. Appreciate the OP, dave.

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:
There is nothing, at least so far, really damaging to anyone, in the sense that it might spark a mass uprising and popular revolt against the US Hegemony

 

Well, there was that one leak from the office of Donald Rumsfeld regarding an invoice for ten black balaclavas and some nano-thermite, but halfway through reading it my browser suddenly redirected to the Dancing With the Stars homepage, and when I went back, it was gone!

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Gee I am amazed that these documents seem to show American officials as arrogant, nasty bullies.  My world view has been shattered.  Our best ally treating us with distain, it can't be true so the docs must be faked.

sanizadeh

siamdave wrote:

Am I the only one wondering if there isn't something a bit fishy with this Wikileaks stuff? There is nothing, at least so far, really damaging to anyone, in the sense that it might spark a mass uprising and popular revolt against the US Hegemony

But what exactly did you expect to find in diplomatic cables from US embassies?

After the US embassy takeover in Iran in November 1979, the students involved in the takeover managed to put together most of embassy documents and communications (a very hard task, as some had been shredded and had to be put back together). The documents were published in 60+ volumes.  However the most surprising point was how insignificant the information turned out to be - aside from the historic value of some documents from the past. They were mostly opinion pieces by low rank diplomats.

NDPP

here's another take on WikiLeaks 'Cablegate':

Wikileaks 'Cablegate' Psychological Operation Justifies Zionist War Propaganda

http://www.roguegovernment.com/

"This recent round of so-called documents from Wikileaks now dubbed 'Cablegate' shows further confirmation that it is simply a tool being used in a massive psychological warfare operation against the people of the world...John Young, one of the original founders of Wikileaks stated in a C-Net article that Wikileaks was originally in negotiations with the George Soros run Open Society institute to finance their efforts.."

sanizadeh

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

Wikileaks 'Cablegate' Psychological Operation Justifies Zionist War Propaganda

http://www.roguegovernment.com/

And here is undeniable the proof from that link:

Quote:

It is also curious that Wikileaks would begin these leaks on November 28th, 2010 which is the 332nd day of the year which resulted in the big media frenzy on November 29th, 2010 which is the 333rd day of the year. It is also worth noting that on November 28th, 2010 that there are 33 days left in the year on that day. The priest class elite love to pull off operations on days with intriguing numerological significance and this appears to be yet another one of these operations.

:rolling eyes:

laine lowe laine lowe's picture
Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I believe JA said we're going to see very soon releases pertaining to a large bank. Corporation releases to follow those.

Snert Snert's picture

I'm betting the bank one will be on Dec. 4.

Because "bank" has four letters.

They're always fuckin' with us!!!

Diogenes Diogenes's picture

siamdave wrote:

Am I the only one wondering if there isn't something a bit fishy with this Wikileaks stuff?

...

I hope so.

Perhaps we can all take assurance that no grand conspiracies have been revealed so far.  A member of the Royal Family is revealed to be an upper class twit? American diplomats say things in private to each other that is different from what they say in public? Oh my! But feel free to find a conspiracy theory by the absence of one, SiamDave, and make sure you let Jesse Ventura, former Governor of Minnesota and  WWF authority, know of what you find.

Meanwhile, Private Manning, alledgedly responsible for releasing the infamous WikiLeaks helicopter assault leak, has been in SOLITARY CONFINEMENT since May, and has been denied a visit by his parents (his mother traveled from Wales to visit him).  He was one of over 3 million people who had access to this information.

Quote:

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said WikiLeaks acted illegally in posting the material. Speaking in between calls to foreign capitals as she made amends for the posting of the unvarnished memos, Clinton said the administration was taking "aggressive steps to hold responsible those who stole this information."

Hey Hillary - I have a suggestion for you. Why don't you just use Facebook next time? They have groups that big, so it's no problem, and they understand about the need for privacy too. They probably would have done a better job than your own ass-clown network.

Private Manning has harmed no one. In fact, he has probably saved more lives with his actions than any that may be harmed.

President Obama - winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, instigator of The Surge in Afghanistan, still has Gitmo open for business.

F*****' Americans! Why are you even surprised? And when will you ever learn?

sanizadeh

Cueball wrote:

Typical of the end of is nigh set the article argues that the infallible and omniscient powers that secretly run the world simply could not be undermined by some lowly corporal in the US army. This it is argued proves the case that a larger conspiracy is behind the scenes.

What is most interesting about this thinking is that it is premised on the idea that secret cabal running the world is an all powerful all seeing omnipotent and ultimately unstoppable force. The basic psychology of this is driven by a kind of elitism where a few rebel cognoscenti are privy to the secrets of the elite who would save the world if it were not for the ignorant sheeple, who the enlightened few are superior too, by benefit of the fact that they hold the key to the "truth".

The idea that the powers that run the world are vulnerable and mostly incompetent is totally antithetical to their world view. They resent the idea that lowly corporals might undermine the mythology upon which their sense of superiority rests, because their mythology requires an all powerful enemy whose secrets they alone are aware of.

Their ultimate message is of total disempowerment in a world of super-powerful super-intelligent overlords who are invulnerable. Not a world where a hapless individual like the Corporal Bradley's of the world can make their mark, against the odds.

Indeed what we see here in these cables is just how much of the goings on behind the scenes are reflected in mainstream reporting of event, and how mundane are the machinations of evil. Evil, itself is quite evident everywhere, and banal, as Hanna Arendt pointed out. It is not surprising that their are few surprises.

Very well put.

Cueball Cueball's picture

sanizadeh wrote:

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

Wikileaks 'Cablegate' Psychological Operation Justifies Zionist War Propaganda

http://www.roguegovernment.com/

And here is undeniable the proof from that link:

Quote:

It is also curious that Wikileaks would begin these leaks on November 28th, 2010 which is the 332nd day of the year which resulted in the big media frenzy on November 29th, 2010 which is the 333rd day of the year. It is also worth noting that on November 28th, 2010 that there are 33 days left in the year on that day. The priest class elite love to pull off operations on days with intriguing numerological significance and this appears to be yet another one of these operations.

:rolling eyes:

Typical of the end of is nigh set the article argues that the infallible and omniscient powers that secretly run the world simply could not be undermined by some lowly corporal in the US army. This it is argued proves the case that a larger conspiracy is behind the scenes.

What is most interesting about this thinking is that it is premised on the idea that secret cabal running the world is an all powerful all seeing omnipotent and ultimately unstoppable force. The basic psychology of this is driven by a kind of elitism where a few rebel cognoscenti are privy to the secrets of the elite who would save the world if it were not for the ignorant sheeple, who the enlightened few are superior too, by benefit of the fact that they hold the key to the "truth".

The idea that the powers that run the world are vulnerable and mostly incompetent is totally antithetical to their world view. They resent the idea that lowly corporals might undermine the mythology upon which their sense of superiority rests, because their mythology requires an all powerful enemy whose secrets they alone are aware of.

Their ultimate message is of total disempowerment in a world of super-powerful super-intelligent overlords who are invulnerable. Not a world where a hapless individual like the Corporal Bradley's of the world can make their mark, against the odds.

Indeed what we see here in these cables is just how much of the goings on behind the scenes are reflected in mainstream reporting of events, and how mundane are the machinations of evil. Evil, itself is quite evident everywhere, and banal, as Hanna Arendt pointed out. It is not surprising that there are few surprises.

Noah_Scape

Well, there is at least one damning set of documents being released, those about the Honduran Coup of 2009.

   The cables that WikiLeaks is distributing show that the White House knew that it was an ILLEGAL COUP, but then later the White House made it out to be a big legal grey area to justify it's inaction against the coup. The White House's statements to the mainstream media showed that there was justification for the coup, because they [secretly] wanted to get President Manuel Zelaya out.

link> http://tinyurl.com/38pedg4

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture
al-Qa'bong

Quote:

Am I the only one wondering if there isn't something a bit fishy with this Wikileaks stuff?

 

No.  Conspiracy fetishists around the planet are rubbing Wikileaks all over themselves, and each other.

 

What about Daylight Saving Time?  Isn't it an obvious ploy to disrupt our sleep patterns, which in turn makes us more susceptible to Illuminati propaganda?

milo204

the chomsky interview from democracy now was great!  great analysis of the significance of the leaks!

What i think is interesting about the leaks is more what it doesn't say than what it does.  It shows most us diplomats really are seeing things through a lens of power.  Also, people are making a huge fuss about iran, but there is no new info there, proving once again the US really has no idea what is going on with their nuclear program or their weapons programs making their assertions on it meaningless.

Cueball Cueball's picture

The best part of that Chomsky segment is the Hilary Clinton part where she talks for a few minutes about the significance of what is revealed in the cables about Iran, and then follows calls expresses doubt about their authenticity by calling them "alleged cables". Which is it Hilary? They are real or they are not?

siamdave

Snert wrote:

Quote:
There is nothing, at least so far, really damaging to anyone, in the sense that it might spark a mass uprising and popular revolt against the US Hegemony

 

Well, there was that one leak from the office of Donald Rumsfeld regarding an invoice for ten black balaclavas and some nano-thermite, but halfway through reading it my browser suddenly redirected to the Dancing With the Stars homepage, and when I went back, it was gone!

 

Bable Policy: " .... You agree to avoid personal insults, attacks and mischievous antagonism (otherwise known as "trolling").,,,"

 

Mod????

Sineed

Irony

Quote:
statement that, when taken in context, may actually mean something different from, or the opposite of what is written literally; the use of words expressing something other than their literal intention, notably as a form of humor.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/irony

siamdave

sanizadeh wrote:

siamdave wrote:

Am I the only one wondering if there isn't something a bit fishy with this Wikileaks stuff? There is nothing, at least so far, really damaging to anyone, in the sense that it might spark a mass uprising and popular revolt against the US Hegemony

But what exactly did you expect to find in diplomatic cables from US embassies?

- not so much the cables themselves, as the mainstream media - so few people seem to understand McLuhan's insight - 'the medium IS the message'. I do not expect to read anything truly damaging to the ruling powers therein. Things like the Wikileaks are 'limited hangout' stuff - the media can do stuff like this to 'prove' to the citizens they are really on the ball, doing their 'job' to keep people informed, whilst actually gatekeeping the kinds of things people really should be told about - the whole money supply situation being the main one. Do YOU know where your money comes from and who controls it, and how that relates to the world financial situation, and the completely unnecessary Cdn national debt which has been used as an excuse to gut the country's soclal heritage? It's a very simple and brazen fraud that almost nobody understands - largely because people have been well trained to rely on their mainstream media for 'important' 'news', and the mainstream media will not talk about this. It's about the major 'do not go there' topic in the capitalist press. For good reason. I suspect even the apathetic and trusting Cdn people might be demanding a lot of people be put behind bars if they actually understood this massive fraud and theft they have been conned into over the last 30 years.

ravenise

"In the beginning of its activities, Wikileaks sought to shed light on Washington's belligerent polices and condemn the killing of civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan. 

Nevertheless, analysts believe the recent document release is a scenario carefully orchestrated by US intelligence agencies to deflect attention from US domestic problems, to upset the situation in the region and lay the groundwork for military action against Iran." 

According to intelligence analysts Wikileaks is an AIPAC/Israeli intelligence front designed to coerce select adversaries into submission through carefully selected or fraudulent documentation. Wikileaks is used to divide people and strain the relationships between trusting parties, corporations, governments, and countries. Wikileaks censors and or does not leak any critical information about Israel, the narcotics trade in the ME, or any criminal activity that is endorsed or sponsored by the Zionist regime and her criminal associates. We must shine a light on these facts, denounce poster boy Assange and the Zionist individuals who are cradling and coercing the public and legitimate whistle-blowers into supporting and believing the lies fabricated by the Zionist operation disguised as Wikileaks.

Wikileaks exposes Zionist Treachery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgI1aph7AsE

The Wiki (Israel) Leaks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sKV7DZmF6k

Iranian Parliament Speaker: Ali Larijani: 'Mideast enemies behind Wiki-releases'
http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/153186.html

'WikiLeaks paves way for strike on Iran':
http://www.presstv.com/detail/153317.html

'WikiLeaks aims to boost Israel image' (Video Interview with American citizen, Mark Glenn, from the Crescent and Cross Solidarity Movement of Coeur d'Alene)
http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/153333.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPr6TaHnQpI

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: 'WikiLeaks logs reckless, worthless':
http://www.presstv.com/detail/153215.html
"Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has said some quarters within the US government are behind the release of files posted on the Internet by WikiLeaks."

Iran: WikiLeaks release highly dubious:
http://www.presstv.com/detail/153259.html
"Iranian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast says the latest release of classified files by WikiLeaks website is “highly dubious”."

 

ravenise

 

GORDON DUFF: SELLING WIKILEAKS, SELLING HATE FOR AMERICA: VETERANS TODAY:

"Wikileaks has divided the world into two camps, those who love Wikileaks as a slap in the face for the United States and those who recognize the stench of Wikileaks for what it is, simple Israeli propaganda."

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/11/30/gordon-duff-selling-wikileaks-se...

 

JOE QUINN: Wiki-Leaks Serves Israeli Agenda Of Demonizing Iran: Veterans Today:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/11/30/joe-quinn-wiki-leaks-serves-isra...

"What is happening is that Wiki-leaks is being promoted by the media in order to sell the same old lies, except that now the lies are coming sugar-coated, with a ‘whistle-blower’ gloss to better enable digestion. The lies themselves don’t frustrate me so much anymore, and I can understand why the general public are fooled, but I have to admit to being disappointed at how effortlessly the Wiki-leaks poison is being swallowed by so many supposedly alternative news sites."

 

GORDON DUFF: “WIKI-MURDERS” IN IRAN, SIGNAL “FALSE FLAG” TERROR: VETERANS TODAY:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/11/29/gordon-duff-wiki-murders-in-iran...

"An attack on American forces in the Persian Gulf is being planned.  Wikileaks is an integral part of the operation.  Step one was the current “diplomatic” Wikileak.  Step two, the brazen “Mossad style”murders in Iran."

 

GORDON DUFF: WIKILEAKS, A TOUCH OF ASSANGE AND THE STENCH OF AIPAC: VETERANS TODAY:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/11/27/gordon-duff-wikileak-predictions...

"Wikileaks is an intelligence operation to weaken and undermine the American government, orchestrated from Tel Aviv, using dozens of operatives, dual citizens, some at the highest authority levels, spies for Israel.   Through leaking carefully selected intelligence along with proven falsified documents, all fed to a controlled press, fully complicit, Wikileaks is, in fact, an act of war against the United States."

 

siamdave

Cueball wrote:

sanizadeh wrote:

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

Wikileaks 'Cablegate' Psychological Operation Justifies Zionist War Propaganda

http://www.roguegovernment.com/

And here is undeniable the proof from that link:

Quote:

It is also curious that Wikileaks would begin these leaks on November 28th, 2010 which is the 332nd day of the year which resulted in the big media frenzy on November 29th, 2010 which is the 333rd day of the year. It is also worth noting that on November 28th, 2010 that there are 33 days left in the year on that day. The priest class elite love to pull off operations on days with intriguing numerological significance and this appears to be yet another one of these operations.

:rolling eyes:

Typical of the end of is nigh set the article argues that the infallible and omniscient powers that secretly run the world simply could not be undermined by some lowly corporal in the US army. This it is argued proves the case that a larger conspiracy is behind the scenes.

What is most interesting about this thinking is that it is premised on the idea that secret cabal running the world is an all powerful all seeing omnipotent and ultimately unstoppable force. The basic psychology of this is driven by a kind of elitism where a few rebel cognoscenti are privy to the secrets of the elite who would save the world if it were not for the ignorant sheeple, who the enlightened few are superior too, by benefit of the fact that they hold the key to the "truth".

The idea that the powers that run the world are vulnerable and mostly incompetent is totally antithetical to their world view. They resent the idea that lowly corporals might undermine the mythology upon which their sense of superiority rests, because their mythology requires an all powerful enemy whose secrets they alone are aware of.

Their ultimate message is of total disempowerment in a world of super-powerful super-intelligent overlords who are invulnerable. Not a world where a hapless individual like the Corporal Bradley's of the world can make their mark, against the odds.

Indeed what we see here in these cables is just how much of the goings on behind the scenes are reflected in mainstream reporting of events, and how mundane are the machinations of evil. Evil, itself is quite evident everywhere, and banal, as Hanna Arendt pointed out. It is not surprising that there are few surprises.

 

";..Typical of the end of is nigh set [sic - I presume you mean 'end of the world set'..] the article argues that the infallible and omniscient powers that secretly run the world simply could not be undermined by some lowly corporal in the US army..." - I have never actually read this idea of 'infallible' etc, nor do I nor most people who question things like the official 911 conspiracy theory talk about 'the end of the world is nigh' - although I don't frequent the kind of websites you seem familiar with - could you give an actual example of anyone talking about '..infallible and omniscient powers..' ? Or are you just making stuff up? Composing a 'straw dog' that is much easier to push over or mock than anything I actually say, here or elsewhere? The people I and others talk about are powerful, yes, but the reason I and others fight such people, who do indeed exercise their power behind the scenes, is that they are actually quite vulnerable - if people start to understand their manipulations. But you 'we don't believe in conspriacies not us oh no!!' folk seem pretty incapable of nuanced discussions or situations or separating obviously nonsensical claims from serious questions - all black and white to you, it seems. Your notion that making stuff up and attributing it to others, and then attacking the fictional straw dog, is a good way to 'debate' things, says a lot too about the content of your 'real' arguments, which are much more air than substance.

(small aside - do you see the irony of claiming we small folk, we lonely voices in the babble wilderness daring to challenge your Received Wisdom, don't believe a lowly corporal could do any damage to the NWO? ... probably not.... Defenders of the Blessed Narrative as Revealed by the MSM aren't known for their awareness of their own at-times pompous ridiculousness.. - all hat no cattle, as we used to say about someone full of BS)

I'm just a bit curious though, about your own take on this bit - if the powers that run the world are vulnerable and mostly incompetent, as you seem to believe - why are they winning? Why are the neocons running the world, rather than 'we the people' who seem to oppose most of what is going on in the modern world? If 'you/we the people' are running the world, this amazingly wealthy world, why have things been getting worse and worse for 'us', and better and better for 'them', these last 30 years? These 'vulnerable and mostly incompetent' neocons have brazenly and openly taken over the world over the last 30-40 years, in the face of widespread opposition and resistance - and you suggest this somehow proves they are incompetent and vulnerable? Or do you believe that you and whoever it is you are speaking collectively for are 'winning' here, and the economic meltdown and war on terrorism and etc etc are all things you actually support and believe in, thus the world is being run as you and these others wish?

Evil is indeed banal - as is the combination of gross hubris and stupidity and gullibility evidenced by so many indoctrinated (What me?!?! I'm certainly not indoctrinated!! How dare you!!) citizens in our modern world who so arrogantly and thoughtlessly dismiss 'conspiracy theories' demonstrate daily. To the detriment of all of us. And the delight of the new rulers so incompetently taking over the world.

 

siamdave

sanizadeh wrote:

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

Wikileaks 'Cablegate' Psychological Operation Justifies Zionist War Propaganda

http://www.roguegovernment.com/

And here is undeniable the proof from that link:

Quote:

It is also curious that Wikileaks would begin these leaks on November 28th, 2010 which is the 332nd day of the year which resulted in the big media frenzy on November 29th, 2010 which is the 333rd day of the year. It is also worth noting that on November 28th, 2010 that there are 33 days left in the year on that day. The priest class elite love to pull off operations on days with intriguing numerological significance and this appears to be yet another one of these operations.

:rolling eyes:

1. the link you give does not link to any article with any quotes, just the front page of a website with a lot of stuff on it. Are you just making this shit up or what?

2. In the larger sense, your "rolling eyes" "reasoning" (I use the term quite loosely here) appears to be that since some website you appear to think is a 'conspiracy theory' website questions the Wikileaks, that therefore Wikileaks must be reliable. Which says somewhat more about your own 'reasoning' process than anything else. If you're ever required to offer any similar thoughts to anybody with intelligence you need to impress, I'd advise staying away from that line of 'thought' - i.e. I think Bob's a nutcase because he thinks outside the box too much. Bob says Statement A is true, therefore, because I don't like Bob, I say statement A is false.

Not high marks.

 

jas

Well, I don't know about Zionist plots (referring to ravenise), but my question about it would be (and was), why would we expect wikileaks to be any safer from mis- and disinformation than any other media? And even more so with a format through which you can "leak", anonymously, anything your little heart desires, and the locations from which these are submitted are also anonymous, or not logged. Obviously it lends itself, in an extreme way, to misuse.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Because around here they accept things as they are or run roughshod over attempts to prove otherwise.  'Tis a tough slog.

NDPP

I Hate Authority -- Well except for My Authority - by Arthur Silber

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2010/11/i-hate-authority-well-excep...

"I continue to be mesmerized by the number of liberals, progressives and libertarians (or perhaps 'libertarians', who the hell knows any longer) who express extraordinarily negative views of wikiLeaks..."

Raise a Glass to Wikileaks - by Craig Murray

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/11/raise_a_glass_t.html

see comments also

sanizadeh

siamdave wrote:

1. the link you give does not link to any article with any quotes, just the front page of a website with a lot of stuff on it. Are you just making this shit up or what?

The link was in the original post, not mine. Here is the full link for the scroll- and click-challenged people who write nonsense before trying to find a source:

http://www.roguegovernment.com/Wikileaks_%22Cablegate%22_Psychological_O...

Quote:

2. In the larger sense, your "rolling eyes" "reasoning" (I use the term quite loosely here) appears to be that since some website you appear to think is a 'conspiracy theory' website questions the Wikileaks, that therefore Wikileaks must be reliable. Which says somewhat more about your own 'reasoning' process than anything else. If you're ever required to offer any similar thoughts to anybody with intelligence you need to impress, I'd advise staying away from that line of 'thought'

Similarly, If you are unhappy with any sort of imaginary reasoning or conclusions you want to draw from my posts, feel free to stay away from this site.

sanizadeh

ravenise wrote:

Iranian Parliament Speaker: Ali Larijani: 'Mideast enemies behind Wiki-releases'
http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/153186.html

'WikiLeaks paves way for strike on Iran':
http://www.presstv.com/detail/153317.html

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: 'WikiLeaks logs reckless, worthless':

http://www.presstv.com/detail/153215.html
"Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has said some quarters within the US government are behind the release of files posted on the Internet by WikiLeaks."

Iran: WikiLeaks release highly dubious:
http://www.presstv.com/detail/153259.html
"Iranian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast says the latest release of classified files by WikiLeaks website is “highly dubious”."

I was just watching the Iranian national TV earlier tonight, and the whole government is in deep confusion about what to say. The official "analysts" on the national TV had not even checked the web about Bradley Mannings; they kept saying that some middle rank unhappy diplomat from the state department had done it! They also don't seem to understand that the diplomatic cables obviously reports the views of US diplomats, and were asking why the "documents" reflects US positions (similarly Ahmadinejad saying that the documents have no "legal" weight - as if they are pieces of evidence submitted to a court). One analyst was saying that how is it possible to steal data from the mighty CIA and FBI (his words, not mine), but another analyst quickly countered that this was the ultimate sign of the US weakness as the esteemed leader of Iran had predicted!

Like most other wikileaks critics they gleefully report on whatever that suits their purpose, and try to play down the ones that they don't like. The most critical point was the revelation that Saudi and Bahrain governments had asked US to attack Iranian nuclear installations. The Iranian news agencies quickly published denials by the local embassies of those governments, and Ahmadinejad dismissed the whole thing. They all know or guess that the requests are probably true, but prefer to keep the status quo of smile in each other presence and fight behind their back. The wikileaks incidence is diplomats' worst nightmare.

NorthReport

I'm curious about these Swedish rape charges or accusations.

 

Remember when Ralph Nader wrote "Unsafe At Any Speed" about the Corvair and GM tried to brand him as a homosexual among other things. Anyway Nadar went to a successful career and GM basically went bankrupct. The patterns are strikingly similiar.

Diogenes Diogenes's picture

Complaints were filed almost a week after the alleged "act"; and for consensual but unprotectected sex. Sweden has rather unusal laws about this.  It might have something to do with a a best-selling authors' claim that nordic countries have one of the highest incidences of domestic abuse in the world. I digress.

The charges were initally dropped but have since been reinstated; and the whole matter has escalated to a point where Interpol is now involved.

Assange is on the lam.  I want a T-shirt!

 

siamdave

sanizadeh wrote:

.....

The link was in the original post, not mine. Here is the full link for the scroll- and click-challenged people who write nonsense before trying to find a source:.......

- the link I responded to was the same one you referred to, which was the same as the one originally given, the simple website address - again, you try to make stuff up by adding the correct ref later. Again you show a lack of intelligence - anybody can just look back and see for themselves what the original was. As for my not bothering to spend a few hours trying to find it myself, the bit you quoted is not the kind of crap I spend much time reading. Apparently you find something interesting in it. Again, not something one would want to brag about much in discriminating circles.

Quote:

.....

Similarly, If you are unhappy with any sort of imaginary reasoning or conclusions you want to draw from my posts, feel free to stay away from this site.

Me unhappy? I'm just doing my job, shining a light on the weaknesses etc of the words and illusions and other assorted stupidities of the Defenders of the Blessed Faith as Revealed by the MSM. Tough job sometimes - but hey, not that challenging. People who take their 'ideas' and beliefs from the MSM aren't particularly deep thinkers. As you've been showing.

ravenise

By Jeff Gates * | Sabbah Report | www.sabbah.biz

What is Tel Aviv to do now that it's known Israelis and pro-Israelis ‘fixed' the intelligence that induced the U.S. to war in Iraq?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Con me consistently for six decades and the relationship is over, as is Israel's credibility as a legitimate nation state.

Tel Aviv knows this. But what can the Zionist state do about it?

Answer: Wikileaks.

Why now? Misdirection.

Shine the spotlight on Washington to take it off Tel Aviv. That's good old-fashioned psy-ops. And challenge the credibility of the U.S. That's Wikileaks.

Any credible forensics would start by asking: to whose benefit? Then look to means, motive and opportunity plus the presence of stable nation-state intelligence inside the U.S.

Other than Israel, who else is a credible candidate? Notice how quickly Israel's role in the peace process vanished from the news. Now it's Iran, Iran and more Iran. To whose benefit?

Tel Aviv knows that the phony intelligence on Iraq leads to those skilled at waging war "by way of deception"-the motto of the Israeli Mossad.

Wikileaks are noteworthy for what's missing: the absence of any material damaging to Israeli goals.

But still Tel Aviv faces an unprecedented peril: transparency. Americans know they were duped. And Israel rightly fears that Americans will soon realize by whom.

Tepid Support will not Suffice

Obama has behaved as anticipated by those who produced his presidency. Anyone surprised at the lack of change in U.S. policy in the Middle East fails to grasp the power of the Israel lobby.

Did he hesitate to support their latest Israeli strategy for scuttling peace negotiations? Absent peace, the U.S. will continue to be the target of those outraged at America's unflinching support for Israel's thuggish behavior in pursuit of its expansionist goals.

Confirming the lobby's influence, Netanyahu announced he would not agree to halt settlements on Palestinian land until Obama reduced to writing a $3 billion bribe.

In return for a proposed 90-day freeze, what form of bribe will America provide? Twenty F-35 jets at $150 million each plus parts, maintenance, training and armaments.

That's $231 million per week or $1,373,626 per hour. What will the U.S. receive in return? A temporary partial freeze on settlements. How many more times can this ruse work?

Israel has evaded a peace agreement since it drove Palestinians from their land in 1948 and seized more land in 1967 to shape today's geopolitics.

Should Israel reach an agreement with the Palestinians, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton proposes a "comprehensive security agreement." At what cost no one knows. The U.S. Congress has already budgeted $30 billion for Israel over 10 years. This latest $3 billion is on top of that.

That doesn't include the cost to American credibility posed by an offer to veto U.N. recognition of Palestine as a state. And a pledge Never Again to pressure Israel on settlements. Plus the freeze omits East Jerusalem where Tel Aviv insists on moving ahead with new housing starts.

Timing Is Everything

By scheduling its latest incursion into Gaza between Christmas 2008 and the January 2009 Obama inaugural, Tel Aviv ensured only muted opposition during political down time in the U.S. Thus it came as no surprise to see an agent provocateur operation on Thanksgiving Day 2010 as Israel demolished a West Bank Mosque and a Palestinian village.

After seven hours of nonstop talks, Hillary Clinton praised Netanyahu as a "peacemaker." In return, he agreed only to "continue the process." Meanwhile, U.S. elections marked a major victory for Israel when incoming Republican Majority Leader Eric Cantor, a Jewish Zionist, announced that the new majority would "serve as a check on the Obama administration."

The Israel lobby has good reason to gloat. Confirming ongoing duplicity, Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman proclaimed: "a permanent agreement is impossible."

Wikileaks' release of confidential diplomatic cables provides Israel an opportunity to undermine U.S. relations worldwide while also inflicting lasting damage on U.S. interests in the Middle East. After this, what nation would trust the U.S. to maintain a confidence?

In October, Turkey asked that the U.S. not share intelligence with Israel. Now who dares share intelligence with the U.S.?

This may signal the beginning of the end for the Obama presidency his domestic policy failures are eclipsed by his failures in foreign policy.

This may also signal pre-staging for the 2012 presidential primary with a weakened Obama forced to name Clinton as his running mate or stepping aside so she can lead the ballot.

Her 2008 presidential campaign promised recognition of Israel as a "Jewish state" and promised an "undivided Jerusalem as the capital." Tel Aviv was elated. A second Clinton presidency would ensure another victory for Israel-and no peace.

Israeli psy-ops typically serve multiple purposes. Wikileaks is no exception.

Jeff Gates is a widely acclaimed author, attorney, investment banker, educator and consultant to government, corporate and union leaders worldwide, Jeff Gates' latest book is Guilt by Association -How Deception and Self-Deceit Took America to War (2008) his first release in the Criminal State series. His previous books include Democracy At Risk and The Ownership Solution. See his website Criminal State

ravenise

Wikileaks and the Toxic Acid in Every Direction - Except Israel
Wednesday, 01 December 2010 12:19

Let us ponder for a second about the meaning of 'leaking'. When something is leaking, it is usually understood that some fluid substance that is supposed to be flowing in a certain direction, is escaping from its designed route because of a defect in the structure that was built to guide it. Usually, if you have a leaking pipe in your water system, your main problem is that you are unable to control the flow of it, and water goes into directions where you don't want it to be going. 

However, the definition of 'Wikileaking' seems to be following entirely different laws of nature. Indeed, the information is flowing away from the secret pipelines it was originally guided into. However, the strange thing about 'Wikileaking' is that Israel, a country widely known for its secret dealings and cunning intelligence service, is managing to keep dry feet in spite of the massive political flooding allegedly caused by Wikileaks' founding father, Julian Assange.

The lack of control that is so typical of other forms of 'leaking', certainly does not seem to apply to 'Wikileaking' - instead it looks like it is under perfect control, and carefully guided in such a way that it only serves the interests of one state, namely that of Israel.

Assange takes a leak, the world jumps up

Barely a country in the world that is actively involved in Middle East and other international affairs, either by choice or by geographical location, has been spared by Assange's latest opening of his Pandora's box of revelations. It is hard to visit a news source these days, without the word 'Wikileaks' jumping into your view at least once, and revealing some scandalous backdoor deal, secret agreement or embarrassing hidden relationship between governments who on the surface seem to be diametrically opposed to each other in the political spectrum.

Since the list of countries that have faced these embarrassments includes Obama's United States, many anti-imperialist activists around the world have been anxiously awaiting the latest leaks, and are now engaging in discussions about the implications of many of these so-called astounding revelations. Julian Assange is being hailed worldwide by people who are critical of their governments as the activist who was able to embarrass governments, helped only by a small group of independent supporters. His star is rising rapidly, and although sounds of cynicism can be heard here and there, the overwhelming noise resounding in progressive circles is one of loud cheers for this long-awaited 'champion of the ordinary man'.

What many seem to fail to be noticing however, is that although the list of countries that were painfully embarrassed by the publication of their secret cables, memo's and meetings, includes the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states, Egypt and the United States - where Obama is suffering from serious problems from a 'Tea Party' he was not invited to - one of the main actors in the dirty political game of Middle East animosities and alliances is remaining completely unharmed: Israel.

Much ado about old news

What are Wikileaks telling us? That Saudi Arabia poured oil on the flames against Iran? We already knew that. That Abbas' administration as well as the Egyptian government were very well informed about Israel's genocidal military assault on Gaza in the winter of 2009? There is nothing new about that either. The list goes on and on, and the main victims of embarrassment are leaders of Arab governments. But what is so new about that? Doesn't almost every Arab in the world who reads newspapers, watches Al Jazeera and has a certain degree of understanding of Middle East politics, already know about the extent and scope of secret relations in the region? Even many people living outside of the Arab world are largely aware of this.

Oana Lungescu, spokeswoman for NATO, called Wikileaks' revelations about the presence of American nuclear missiles in Europe - mainly the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany - 'dangerous' on November 29. Why exactly would something be dangerous, if it is a commonly known fact that has now only been confirmed yet again? Didn't earlier revelations have no effect, so why would these new ones do that? Does the fact that Obama, Sarkozy, and the Chinese leadership all have condemned Wikileaks and its founder, make any significant difference?

The answer to these questions is: yes, these revelations are indeed causing unpleasant domestic situations all around the world, and creating electoral problems and other political embarrassments for governments everywhere - except in one place, namely Israel.

No worries: Assange will tell you who to trust

Julian Assange, 'master revealer' of international conspiracies, apparently also is highly irritated by people questioning the events of 9/11. In an interview in the Belfast Telegraph on July 19, 2010, he was asked about the 9/11 attack, and answered: "I'm constantly annoyed that people are distracted by false conspiracies such as 9/11, when all around we provide evidence of real conspiracies, for war or mass financial fraud." 

Apparently Julian 'Robin Hood' Assange finds the story of pilots who fly an airplane full of people straight into a humongous skyscraper full of unsuspecting citizens, just because some hysterical hijacker is holding a box-cutter against their jugular veins, perfectly believable. He apparently also believes that when you fly an airplane into the top floors of one of the world's largest buildings, in a horizontal direction, the building will not only spontaneously collapse all the way down to its basement in a vertical direction, but will indeed be transformed into a powdery dust, not leaving behind even one piece of debris that is larger than a ballpoint pen - except of course the completely undamaged passport of one of the alleged hijackers, that was miraculously found among the ruins of the World Trade Center. 

Unless you, dear reader, also believe in fairy tales, this should certainly make you wonder. So much for your credibility, mr Assange.

Cui Bono?

In politics there is a golden rule for understanding what may be the driving force behind unexpected mysterious events. This rule is known as 'Cui Bono', which is Latin for: 'who benefits?'

Browse through all the news sources available on the latest Wikileaks revelations, and try to find even only one revelation that actually damages Israel, even though so many of the revealed documents are directly or indirectly connected to Middle East politics, and to a large extent to Israeli affairs. Did you find any document among them that either creates difficulties for the government of the zionist entity, or even slightly embarrasses it? Think about it well, you will find that the answer is a very simple "No".

Does it not strike you as interesting or remarkable, that many of the revelations about Middle East affairs are of direct benefit to Israel? If it hasn't, read them again, and give it some thought.

Cui bono? Israel. Therefore, who is the prime suspect behind the phenomenon 'Julian Assange'? You tell me, or just prove me wrong by showing me one Wikileaks document that would make Binjamin Netanyahu and his rogue companions scratch their heads, or even become only slightly uncomfortable. My suspicion grows stronger every day, and is not deterred by Interpol's announcement on December 1 that Julian Assange is wanted for an alleged sexual harassment case in Sweden. It is obvious that he is a man who has angered many people of power, regardless of whether he is actually guilty in that harassment case or not. The problem however is that none of these people of power are Israeli, and that says a lot. You never bite the hand that feeds you, do you, Julian?

 

Source:  http://www.docjazz.com/index.php/articles/43-analysis/80-wikileaks

Maysie Maysie's picture

ravenise, you're spamming babble with your super-long posts. Stop it or you will be banned.

siamdave

sanizadeh wrote:

..... The wikileaks incidence is diplomats' worst nightmare....

- or so they'd have you believe. But sometimes, in higher/deeper levels of realpolitik, things aren't always what they seem. The big guys understand this, it's surprising more of the hoi polloi aren't a bit more ready to question things as they appear or are presented on the surface, the civics book view of 'history' or current events as presented by the mainstream media.

For example - it's pretty well understood now that the US allowed and even provoked the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour in 1941 - but of course, they couldn't say that, and the 'official line' was great outrage at this "completely unexpected, unprovoked" "attack" on The Motherland - as the US gov went on and did what they wanted to do, but what the US citizens mostly did NOT want to do, and probably would not have, without this provocation. Wheels within wheels.

Whatever you think about who did the 911 attacks, the PNAC people are openly on record as waiting for a 'new pearl harbour' in order to put their plans for increasing the power of the American empire into action - so their words of outrage etc following 911 were, at best, speaking out of both sides of their mouths at once.

It's a pretty open 'secret' that many of the 'leaked documents' of any government, including here in Canada, are 'arranged' by the governement for various reasons - their anger at such 'leaks' being completely feigned.

I suppose the worst nightmare of a lot of these people is that more people start to understand this deception. But I don't suppose they have much to worry about.

 

 

Cueball Cueball's picture

The problem with this thesis is that it assumes that there is something more we need to know about Israel. The fact is that Israel goes around terrorizing people, in particular the Palestinians, in the most blatant fashion. In the western press it is the Teflon country, most things that it does are revealed on a daily basis and matter of the public record, if you choose to look for it.

The things that it does do, that they don't want people to know about, will not appear in any "diplomatic" cables.

ravenise

Cueball wrote:

The problem with this thesis is that it assumes that there is something more we need to know about Israel. 

 

The problem with your statement is that you assume we already know everything we should about her.  Another problem is the a tens of millions of individuals who would love to see top secret classified leaks regarding Israeli involvement in false flags throughout history (USS-Liberty, 9-11, 7-7, Madrid, London Tube...etc) 

Cueball Cueball's picture

And you expect information about "false flag" operations to be transmitted by diplomatic cable?

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

wrong thread

Jingles

It's as if some people want Wikileaks to provide a smoking gun document that says "we sure did a good job on that WTC operation. Be sure to thank those Mossad guys when you see them. Signed: GW Bush".

Ain't gonna happen.

What we do see is the minutia of empire. We see the bland bureaucratic maneuvering that allows it to function, and the ways the empire controls is satrapys like Canada.

Like Assange said, people are so busy manufacturing elaborate conspiracies when the real ones, the dangerous ones, are right in front of them the whole time.

I like how some expect Wikileaks to bring down the empire, like Luke dropping a bomb down the Death Star's open shaft. It's much easier to expect others to do the revolution for you than to do something yourself, I guess.

 

ocsi

I wrote a letter to the President of the University of Calgary to complain about Tom Flanagan's comments. Truly disgusting!!

Elizabeth Cannon 'president@ucalgary.ca'

Cueball Cueball's picture

Jingles wrote:

Like Assange said, people are so busy manufacturing elaborate conspiracies when the real ones, the dangerous ones, are right in front of them the whole time.

Precisely. For example the conspiracy to ruin our natural habitat for the profit of US oil companties, called the "Tar Sands" project.

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