Canadian Commandos Honoured In Secret..Is this kosher?
Seems there was a secret honouring of Canadian Commados in Ottawa today.
Why was this done in secrecy?...Better yet,why so hush hush about what they were being honoured for?
Is this kosher?
I welcome your thoughts.
OTTAWA — Canada's governor general honoured a handful of new heroes on Friday.
Unfortunately, we can't tell you how many, what their names might be -- or what they did.
Governor General David Johnson handed out three Stars of Military Valour and two Medals of Military Valour, the second and third highest decorations for bravery to members of the ultra-secret special forces.
In addition, one Meritorious Service Cross, three Meritorious Service Medals and one Mention in Dispatches were also presented at a closed-door ceremony at Rideau Hall.
A release from the vice regal's office said for security and operational reasons, the recipients' names and citations were not released.
It's unclear whether the decorations involve operations in Afghanistan, where roughly 200 members of the special forces have been fighting the Taliban in successive rotations since 2001.
Unlike the Americans, who publicize the exploits of their commandos, Canada keeps secret all aspects of special forces operations.
The secrecy suits Harper just fine.
Hides the possibility that these commandos have been involved in murdering (often) innocent Afghan civilians in those notorious Vietnam style Phoenix Program night raids.
especially the 'improper killing' aspects, Sandbox, POW torture transfers, and god knows what else. In truth, given that we've been toiling and moiling away over there for almost a decade, it is quite amazing just how little information on any aspect of our Afghan operations has been given us, at all. I mean in WWII the folks back home eagerly followed actions and campaigns and knew exactly which units were where doing what. Perhaps it suits the purposes of both the evil Ottawa talkshop and the Canucklhead public to just keep the whole shameful business as low key as possible. Even when the bits and pieces in boxes come home for their final ride down the 'highway of heros', not much of a crowd, really, even though it's usually on TV. Perhaps few really know - or care one way or the other. So it seems, especially the unindicted war criminal 'representatives' that manage the whole thing - all in all everything runs very smoothly with a minimum of disturbance or disruption here - business as usual. Of course there must be costs, a final bill, of some sort or the other once it ends, if it ends...
Yeah..
Seeing that this 'war' is anything but private,what's the dillio with an 'ultra secret special forces'?
I'm not an expert on the military but it doesn't sit very well in my stomach.
This does not sound like Canada.
But to be fair,I don't think Canada's hands have ever really been clean anyway...
I wish I knew more about Canada's war history post Korea.
I want an informed opinion.
Yves Engler has been writing quite a bit about Canada's Black Book lately. Check his stuff out and read the footnotes.
Because I'm not an expert,I don't know if I'm suffering from paranoia or a short memory.
I don't remember seeing so many Canadian Armed Forces commercials on television in recent memory.
I'm not exaggerating when I say I see them atleast a dozen times a day.
The buzz word in all these ads is 'FIGHT' and the military is being shilled much the same as I was used to seeing on U.S. television.
I'm thinking that it's the Cons strategy to make the military the only option for those who cannot afford a college education (hence the rallying call for tuition hikes) or those who are unemployed,those who are working but earning a wage that is still below or just an inch above the poverty line and those who rely on social assistance--much like the States have done over the past 30 years.
Mind you,the new U.S. Navy commercials are far more offensive....They now sell themselves as 'A Global Force For Good'...The old subtlties have evaporated..Atleast they don't attempt to hide their imperial chauvinism anymore.
This 'secrecy' just adds fuel to my personal concern that Canada is not a peacekeeper but a war mongering hand puppet of the American Empire.
My lack of military education excludes me from attaining a firm opinion.
Canada's military missions LOOK like they've been perverted in the last 5 years or so but it doesn't mean they are any different than they have been in 50 years.
I hope more people share their expertise on this to shed some light on Canada's military history.
Read everything and anything you can by one Steven Staples. Repeat as necessary.
This 'secrecy' just adds fuel to my personal concern that Canada is not a peacekeeper but a war mongering hand puppet of the American Empire.
My lack of military education excludes me from attaining a firm opinion.
Call what you think and feel "instinct."
Do not disuade yourself of your beliefs.
As a former "soldier" who was involved (until recently) for many years in high level military (bad, very bad) shit, your insticts are correct. They will show you the path to truth.
Read everything and anything you can by one Steven Staples. Repeat as necessary.
This would be the same Stephen Staples who thinks the Canadian military should focus on "continental security"?
Give me Yves Engler any day.
As a former "soldier" who was involved (until recently) for many years in high level military (bad, very bad) shit,
Really? What were you involved in? Or is it hush hush and you can't say? Probably bound to secrecy under the NDA.
As for the secrecy, a certain level is required.
Personal information about soldiers (let alone special forces read higher street cred) can be used to harm soldiers families. (i know, they shouldn't be waging this illegal and unjust war anyways!)
Personal information means soldiers families can be targeted by harmful groups so the government is going to naturally put checks and balances in place to try and stop this.
Having personal information public domain also leaves members of the military open to extortion and blackmail.
On another note, don't get bent out of shape that these guys and girls were awarded their pretty medals in secret. If it was made public these people would rapidly turn into folk heros among many young canadians who want to emulate them. Young men (and women) that want to live eat breathe everything "special". Just read up on Marcus Luttrell.
If there was fan fare over these guys and girls getting their awards isplashed all over the news you'd be here complaining about it too, I'm sure.
That said I find Canada does go a little overboard with their level of secrecy (lol camp mirage) but atleast common soldiers don't have to look away when the secret commandos walk by anymore.
PF makes a good point about not naming names.
But I still find it troubling that what they did to achieve these medals is under raps.
Certainly,disclosing their 'heroic' actions does not put these soldiers' families in danger or make them vulnerable to extortion.
After all,nobody knows who they are.
I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe that their missions MAY have been illegal. (regardless of the fact that the war itsself is illegal)
Illegal war = everything involved = illegal.
Missions illegal. Medals illegal. Everyone involved criminals.
Would it surprise you to learn that sometimes medals are awarded for very mediocre reasons?
You show up and do your job every day, your boss likes you and puts you in for a medal, bling!
OR you're a young officer and you put the general in for another accomodation- carreer kickstart!
Not all medals are for heroic actions. Most actually are not. Look into it it's pretty interesting albeit a little frustrating.
banter aside there is probably a moratoriam on this because identifying medals for specific actions or engagements violates "operational security" in that it directly admits that these guys are involved in specific operations which is against how they operate.
Right or wrong they don't like to announce what operations they are a part of.
One of them might have got an award for making sure the trucks are always fueled up, no joke.
Read everything and anything you can by one Steven Staples. Repeat as necessary.
This would be the same Stephen Staples who thinks the Canadian military should focus on "continental security"?
Give me Yves Engler any day.
A reference would be helpful. Staples is very good at exposing excessive military spending.
End Operations in Afghanistan, Karzai Pleads
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/operations+Afghanistan+Karzai+pleads/4...
"An emotional Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Saturday told international troops to 'stop their operations on our land', his strongest remarks yet on the mistaken killngs of civilians. 'I would like to ask NATO and the US with honour and humbleness and not with arrogance to stop their operations in our land,' Karzai said in Pashto as he visited the dead children's relatives in Kunar province.
'We are very tolerant people, but our tolerance has run out'. The Afghan president wept as he held a young child who he said had her leg amputated following the last attack, a reporter said."
No surprise Special Forces' filthy work is kept secret.
Purely speculation...I'm not Kreskin.
But watch Karzei's shocking assassination 'by the Taliban' in the weeks and months to come and a new Western hand puppet to take his place.
As for the secrecy, a certain level is required.
Personal information about soldiers (let alone special forces read higher street cred) can be used to harm soldiers families. (i know, they shouldn't be waging this illegal and unjust war anyways!)
Personal information means soldiers families can be targeted by harmful groups so the government is going to naturally put checks and balances in place to try and stop this.
Having personal information public domain also leaves members of the military open to extortion and blackmail.
Hello, Hello! Welcome back to babble.
That's half the story. In my case, the "enemy" knowing personal information about me is not a concern. This is due to who my contacts were and the "circles I moved in."
The other half is the government (and I don't mean the Canadian government) covering up the truth about Afghanistan and protecting itself. THEY are the ones I have to look over my shoulder for if I "step out of line."
Back in the world, it is hard to know what the truth is and what to believe.
As for the secrecy, a certain level is required.
Personal information about soldiers (let alone special forces read higher street cred) can be used to harm soldiers families. (i know, they shouldn't be waging this illegal and unjust war anyways!)
Personal information means soldiers families can be targeted by harmful groups so the government is going to naturally put checks and balances in place to try and stop this.
Having personal information public domain also leaves members of the military open to extortion and blackmail.
Hello, Hello! Welcome back to babble.
That's half the story. In my case, the "enemy" knowing personal information about me is not a concern. This is due to who my contacts were and the "circles I moved in."
The other half is the government (and I don't mean the Canadian government) covering up the truth about Afghanistan and protecting itself. THEY are the ones I have to look over my shoulder for if I "step out of line."
Back in the world, it is hard to know what the truth is and what to believe.
Thanks! I'm like the tdie, coming and going.
"Circles I moved in" that sounds very highspeed and low drag. Canadian version of Grey Fox? Observations group kinda stuff?
You thinkin our "allies" to the south will come after you if you talk about what you'd seen?
I agree about the truth, it's a moving target, to be sure.
You thinkin our "allies" to the south will come after you if you talk about what you'd seen?
I agree about the truth, it's a moving target, to be sure.
You bet.
My former employer was Uncle Sam.
As you are probably very familiar, there are the two famous sayings:
In war, truth is the first casualty.
"In war, the truth is so valuable she must be surrounded by a bodyguard of lies." - Winston S. Churchill.
Needless to say, those who do not know the truth our governments want to keep that way.
Those of us who do, our governments want us to keep our mouths shut.
I appologize I thought you were a corporal in the Canadian reserves out west who quit the CF. I didn't know you were a high level sneaky squirrel type.
me I'm not a big fan of questions. Questions lead to doubt. Doubt leads to disloyalty, ya know? (Just kidding Ya'all)
I'd say in war the first casualty is the civilians who happen to be living in the same neighbourhoods as military targets.
Are you able to talk about what you did for uncle sam at all at all or is all of it under wraps?
I appologize I thought you were a corporal in the Canadian reserves out west who quit the CF.
I'll offer you three (of course you can "mix and match" or come up with some of your own
) scenarios to choose from:
(If my sadistic streak is showing, I apologize.)
1. That's the cover story.
2. Wasn't me. (It was) some other guy who looked like me.
3. I've heard about him. What he did was admirable. However, given the limited (access to) intelligence he had, the amount he was able to accomplish was correspondingly limited.
We must be careful when it comes to the issue of "outing" people. Look at what they're doing to Bradley Manning.
me I'm not a big fan of questions. Questions lead to doubt.
That's what they want. They want to build unthinking killing machines.
Questions can also lead to clarity.
I'd say in war the first casualty is the civilians who happen to be living in the same neighbourhoods as military targets.
Imprisonment, torture and murder of innocent civilians doesn't make good copy in the eyes of the government should it make its way into the mainstream media. We're supposed to be the "good guys" or so we're told.
Are you able to talk about what you did for uncle sam at all at all or is all of it under wraps?
Silence is the better part of valor.
But I'll venture this: First Gen. Stanley McCrystal and now Gen. David Petraeus, with their COIN Doctrine and night raids are doing the same Phoenix Program shit that was done in Vietnam.
I appologize I thought you were a corporal in the Canadian reserves out west who quit the CF.
I'll offer you three (of course you can "mix and match" or come up with some of your own
) scenarios to choose from:
(If my sadistic streak is showing, I apologize.)
1. That's the cover story.
That's my guess! A part time soldier from out west quits the army as a conscientious objector endearing himself to the left becoming a hero to the anti-war movement. Nevermind he was never in any position to be ordered to deploy since Canada is volunteer only when it comes to reserves going overseas, people love the fact that he quit so he wouldn't "have to" go to Afghanistan. Facts have no place here sir!
But....I ask you what better cover for an agent to get into the heart of the anti-war movement than a reformed soldier who has seen the light and turned his or her back on his peers.
That's just crazy though obviously that's just made up. right?
We must be careful when it comes to the issue of "outing" people. Look at what they're doing to Bradley Manning.
I'll have to look him up.
That's what they want. They want to build unthinking killing machines.
Probably.
Imprisonment, torture and murder of innocent civilians doesn't make good copy in the eyes of the government should it make its way into the mainstream media. We're supposed to be the "good guys" or so we're told.
Supposed to be!
Silence is the better part of valor.
But I'll venture this: First Gen. Stanley McCrystal and now Gen. David Petraeus, with their COIN Doctrine and night raids are doing the same Phoenix Program shit that was done in Vietnam.
Not that you would know about that type of stuff, of course.
Speaking of the Pheonix program, ever hear of Steven Segal? Interesting story. He teaches one of the same types of martial arts taught to the snatch team members in the pheonix program. He's hinted heavily at working with them though never confirmed or denied it. He's mentioned working with the CIA but since the CIA never confirms who does infact work with them pretty much anyone can claim to be an agent with the regular "Can't talk about it" caveat when questioned about their service.
I've spoken to my fair share of guys who have "worked at a facility west of ottawa..." (wink wink)
Turns out that "facility" is usualy the connaught rifle ranges working with army cadets- but that's not a very fun story to tell at the bar now is it :)
Back to packing for December 2012!
Back to packing for December 2012!
Why? Where are you going?
I'm sure I'll probably be downtown Toronto ;)
(Kidding!)
PFC Bradley Manning, held at the Quantico Va. brigg, alleged to have leaked the wikileaks info on the Afghan war and the video "Collateral Murder" on the Iraq war. - That Bradley Manning.
Silence is the better part of valor.
But I'll venture this: First Gen. Stanley McCrystal and now Gen. David Petraeus, with their COIN Doctrine and night raids are doing the same Phoenix Program shit that was done in Vietnam.
Not that you would know about that type of stuff, of course.
... but since the CIA never confirms who does infact work with them pretty much anyone can claim to be an agent with the regular "Can't talk about it" caveat when questioned about their service.
I am unaware of any such Doctrine or Program.
Nor would I be at liberty to discuss any such operations, should such a Program, in fact, exist.
Aw shucks, "Praet."
Now look what you've gone and done.
I'm starting to not believe even myself!
Rene Descartes affirmed (his own) existence when he stated "I think, there for I am [i.e., one's existence is derived from thought and consciousness]."
Now you've got me asking questions like:
Does external objective reality exist?
Or is reality subjective and exists only in the mind of the observer/thinker?
Do you exist? Does babble exist? Do any of you out there exist?
How do I know whether I am conscious or dreaming?
(Have you ever heard this one?): Am I a man dreaming I am a butterfly or am I a butterfly dreaming I am a man?
Do I even exist?
Perhaps I am the figment of someone else's imagination.
Perhaps I am an individual thought of a universal consciousness.
The sad fact is, to pick Afghanistan as but one example, there are real people over there who are being murdered and maimed. Prisoners are being tortured and abused for information for real.
The cause of this is a real, immoral, unjust and illegal war.
Here is the moral choice we all face: Either we oppose this and do all we can to end it as soon as possible.
Or, we are a part of this horrible reality by either being actively involved in it or supporting it tacity through our silence or (by now) willful ignorance.
Everything else surrounding this issue that we have done or not done or believe - is unimportant and immaterial.
Asking questions about everything is the first step toward thinking for one's self and away from others doing your thinking for you and ordering you to do things.
Like participating in the obscenity, mass murder and other crimes against humanity that is the Afghan war.
Ya it's cool his stuff deals with misdirection. Someone comes at him and he spins them around and before they know it they're heading in a completely different direction.
Kind of like media awareness training from a PAFO don't you think? Someone asks a question you don't want to answer so you sorta answer, inject some charm humor and clever wit, make the person/audience asking the question smile then you actually answer a question no one really asked. Make sure to inject the message that your trained to slide in.
"We are commited to a safe and secure Afghanistan so the good citizens here can get back to normal life and bring about positive change to their country."
By the time the question asker realized you didn't even answer what they ask you've moved on- next question please!
General Gautier was phenominal at that kind of stuff. Maybe he trained with Steven Segal?
Ya it's cool his stuff deals with misdirection. Someone comes at him and he spins them around and before they know it they're heading in a completely different direction.
Kind of like media awareness training from a PAFO don't you think? Someone asks a question you don't want to answer so you sorta answer, inject some charm humor and clever wit, make the person/audience asking the question smile then you actually answer a question no one really asked. Make sure to inject the message that your trained to slide in.
"We are commited to a safe and secure Afghanistan so the good citizens here can get back to normal life and bring about positive change to their country."
By the time the question asker realized you didn't even answer what they ask you've moved on- next question please!
Black propaganda is demonizing the enemy.
White propaganda is making us look good.
We have, we are, failing dismally in the propaganda war to 'win the hearts and minds' of the Afghans, the people we are 'supposed to be fighting this war for.'
The propaganda is not meant for Afghans.
The propaganda is meant for our (the home front) consumption.
It's all about the spin.
What was the original question, again?
Or does anyone even care anymore?
We have, we are, failing dismally in the propaganda war to 'win the hearts and minds' of the Afghans, the people we are 'supposed to be fighting this war for.'
The propaganda is not meant for Afghans.
The propaganda is meant for our (the home front) consumption.
Not so true. There is plenty of propaganda directed to and accepted (believed) by the Afghans. Some of it BS, some of it true. American propaganda works better because they are in country longer (12-18 months rather than 6 to 9) so they have more time to make good on their promises.
It's not a bad word really.
Does this sound familiar?
"Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position.
Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented."
What was the original question, again?
Or does anyone even care anymore?
To the skilled it doesn't matter, as you know. When you ask them a question they answer their own question and insert their blanket statement. aka propaganda. Check out post #23 ;)
We have, we are, failing dismally in the propaganda war to 'win the hearts and minds' of the Afghans, the people we are 'supposed to be fighting this war for.'
The propaganda is not meant for Afghans.
The propaganda is meant for our (the home front) consumption.
Not so true. There is plenty of propaganda directed to and accepted (believed) by the Afghans. Some of it BS, some of it true. American propaganda works better because they are in country longer (12-18 months rather than 6 to 9) so they have more time to make good on their promises.
You can't pull the wool over the eyes of Afghans.
They live there.
They see first hand the truth and the lies.
The Americans have the same disadvantages as the Canadians. They are white or black or Hispanic. etc., they speak English and maybe Spanish and largely come from a Christian background. They all stick out like sore thumbs in Afghanistan.
That means they either have to rely on Afghans who have lived in the U.S.A. or Canada for years and are intelligence agents or Afghans who've always lived in the region. Given the tribalism and family connections in Afghanistan, the Afghans who lived in North America for a number of years will be discovered soon enough. They will unwittingly say or do things that will give themselves away. Or Afghan insurgent intelligence will figure things out because various parts of the agent's story don't "add up." Or Afghan insurgent intelligence will discover information that provides the condemning evidence. As for local Afghans in the employ of Western intelligence - all it takes is someone (a fellow Afghan) seeing something (damning) and this agent will either be forced to "turn" or will be publicly executed without mercy: A special hatred is reserved for those who are traitors to their fellow compatriots.
It's not a bad word really.
Does this sound familiar?
"Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position.
Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented."
Because Americans and Canadians live so far from Afghanistan and the war, it is a lot easier to "pull the wool over their/our eyes."
The "white" propaganda is meant for our consumption.
(The propaganda, the serious propaganda that is meant to have an impact for the Afghans is in the form of Psy Ops to intimidate and thus frustrate the operations and campaings of the insurgents.)
A little admixture of the truth always adds a modicum of authenticity to the lies.
Propaganda also comes from the word "propagate": 'to plant a seed in the hopes that it germinates and produces fruit.'