Apple’s Steve Jobs resigns as CEO
August 24, 2011 - 7:07pm
Silicon Valley legend Steve Jobs on Wednesday resigned as chief executive of Apple Inc. (AAPL-Q376.182.580.69%) in a stunning move at the technology giant he co-founded in a garage.
The 55-year-old Apple co-founder and pancreatic cancer survivor has been on medical leave for an undisclosed condition since Jan. 17.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/apples-steve-jobs-resigns-...
This probably belongs in the International News section. Labour and Consumption? lol.
This sounds like his health has taken a turn for the worse.
Yes, I was debating where it belonged. I figured Apple is known for enticing people to over consume their expensive, slave-made goods.
Maybe with Jobs leaving the top post we'll see a little less i-Hype.
There is nothing "hip" about locked down devices running proprietary software.
Doubtful.
The guy taking over for Steve Jobs is no pushover
Cook, 51, was in charge when the iPad 2 was unveiled, when iCloud was announced, and when Apple, two weeks ago, briefly became the world’s most valuable company.
Before that, Cook restructured Apple’s manufacturing methods and its supply chain. He is, by all accounts, a logistics maestro.
“You kind of want to manage it like you're in the dairy business,” he was quoted as saying in a CNN 2008 profile. “If it gets past its freshness date, you have a problem.”
And he has his own nascent cult of personality.
“In meetings he's known for long, uncomfortable pauses, when all you hear is the sound of his tearing the wrapper of the energy bars he constantly eats,” CNN wrote. One executive was quoted as saying, “I’ve seen him shred people. He asks questions he knows you can’t answer and he keeps going and going.”
Tonight I learned that die hard fans of their products are called "apple polishers". Somehow that tidbit made the CBC Radio 6:00 pm newscast
I have worked on Macs, but I have always felt like it was like having a car with the hood welded shut.
Never paid much attention to the company.
I have worked on Macs, but I have always felt like it was like having a car with the hood welded shut.
Never paid much attention to the company.
Well, as some who doesn't like futzing with stuff, I really like Apple's products. For me, they just work. I had a MacBook for seven years and just replaced it with a new one this year. Ms. Sven and I each have an iPod. And, when the new iPhone 5 comes out, I giving my BlackBerry the boot and switching to the iPhone. The products are simple, easy to use, and reliable.
And, apparently a lot of other people feel the same way. Apple was a struggling also-ran that was in danger of slowly sinking into a grave. After taking over in 2000, Jobs was a driving force in making Apple the second most valuable company on the planet.
"apple polishers" lol. That's hilarious.
"apple polishers" lol. That's hilarious.
Isn't it just :-) I was surprised they could do that news item with a sraight face.
Remembering Steve Jobs’ Record on Workers’ Rights
excerpt:
While Steve Jobs has indeed revolutionized the computer industry, his company's labor relations record here and abroad is full of typical multinational corporate practices that have one thing at their core: exploitation of workers in pursuit of profits.
Jobs may be dealing with serious health issues, but it is an absolute malpractice of journalism for business journalists to fail to mention abuses of workers’ rights during his long reign as Apple’s CEO.
Tonight I learned that die hard fans of their products are called "apple polishers". Somehow that tidbit made the CBC Radio 6:00 pm newscast
It's really quite disgusting the way CBC gives free advertising for Apple. They mention regularly that you can listen to their various podcasts on iTunes. Well you don't need iTunes to listen to podcasts. You can use any number of podcast audio programmes. I mainly use a programme called AmaROK. It's free (as in freedom) software.
Before he retired, CBC Radio's morning host in Toronto would look for any possible excuse to mention the iPhone. It was almost comical. I had a hard time finding a day where he didn't mention some kind of i-Thingie.
Well, as some who doesn't like futzing with stuff, I really like Apple's products. For me, they just work. I had a MacBook for seven years and just replaced it with a new one this year. Ms. Sven and I each have an iPod. And, when the new iPhone 5 comes out, I giving my BlackBerry the boot and switching to the iPhone. The products are simple, easy to use, and reliable.
And, apparently a lot of other people feel the same way. Apple was a struggling also-ran that was in danger of slowly sinking into a grave. After taking over in 2000, Jobs was a driving force in making Apple the second most valuable company on the planet.
Alot of people voted for Stephen Harper too. That doesn't mean I'm going to.
Apple's model of total control over it's end users is a model of computing that I'm opposed to. So I will never buy i-Thingies nor advocate the purchase of i-Thingies.
Right on rahim. There's a lot of us not the least fucking interested in the latest i-Turd.
Alot of people voted for Stephen Harper too. That doesn't mean I'm going to.
It's not quite the same thing. I have no interest in using windows or mac, but I do know the learning curve that was involved in wrapping my head around linux back in the day/
I know that learning curve isn't nearly as steep now, and that in fact linux systems are now far more user-friendly than the others, and I know our computers are a political choice like our food, our transportation and everything else, But I also know it is not a switch that everyone is going to have the time, the will or the savvy to make.
If it is a political crime I see it on the order of shopping at Starbucks, rather than casting a ballot for the Harperites.
I encourage people whenever possible to switch, like I would try to dissuade anyone I saw needlessly beating his or her head against the wall, But I also know it's not for everyone.
I encourage people whenever possible to switch, like I would try to dissuade anyone I saw needlessly beating his or her head against the wall, But I also know it's not for everyone.
My experience is that most of the obstacles to making the switch are proprietary "gotchas". Things like Nvidia and ATI/AMD refusing to produce documentation on their video cards so that free software 3D video drivers can be written. Or else undocumented proprietary crap written into Microsoft's file formats that are difficult to reproduce in free software. The wifi card chip makers were a pain in the ass a few years ago but know even the last holdout...Broadcom has released free software drivers.
I think I'd throw a big party and supply free beer if Adobe's Flash format disappeared from the web tomorrow.
In any case the real challenges to digital freedom these days come from mobile devices and so-called "software as a service" or "cloud computing" services.
The iRESIGN letter:
I have always said if there ever came a day when I could no longer meet my duties and expectations as Apple's CEO, I would be the first to let you know. Unfortunately, that day has come.
I hereby resign as CEO of Apple. I would like to serve, if the Board sees fit, as Chairman of the Board, director and Apple employee.
As far as my successor goes, I strongly recommend that we execute our succession plan and name Tim Cook as CEO of Apple.
I believe Apple's brightest and most innovative days are ahead of it. And I look forward to watching and contributing to its success in a new role.
I have made some of the best friends of my life at Apple, and I thank you all for the many years of being able to work alongside you.
Steve
One might as well wish for the automobile to not exist; it does. And the only way to change things is to do it better, overcome the roadblocks, and educate people.
I don't want to focus on the inferior, because virtually every linux-based program I use is far superior to what there is in windows, but if I were doing graphics work professionally I'd probably have to have a windows or mac box stashed somewhere (and offline) in order to run illustrator. I am sure the other vector graphics programs will catch up one day, but so far they are nowhere near.
And OObase, which I use all the time, is good and versatile, but still buggier than access.
And while it is not a problem for me, I have friends who simply will not switch because they are gamers.
Maybe with Jobs leaving the top post we'll see a little less i-Hype.
There is nothing "hip" about locked down devices running proprietary software.
I apologize for my stupidity, but what do you mean when you talk about locked down devices running proprietary software?
Apple's model of total control over it's end users is a model of computing that I'm opposed to. So I will never buy i-Thingies nor advocate the purchase of i-Thingies.
What's the alternative? Should we all flee to the kingdom of Gates?Apple's model of total control over it's end users is a model of computing that I'm opposed to. So I will never buy i-Thingies nor advocate the purchase of i-Thingies.
What's the alternative? Should we all flee to the kingdom of Gates?
Absolutely not.
We should all as much as humanly possible be moving to free (as in freedom) software.
I'll be writing a blogpost for rabble.ca on this issue in the not too distant future but in the meantime you might want to watch this video of a talk that Free Software Foundation president Richard Stallman gave in Reykjavik, Iceland a couple of months ago. It'll introduce you to the concepts behind the free software movement.
Richard Stallman is an extremely important person in the development of computer software and the internet. He's the author of the GNU General Public License (GPL), the most widely used free software license. Stallman developed the concept of "copyleft"...turning copyright on it's head.
Someone said that, in the future, Steve Jobs will be mentioned alongside Thomas Edison and Henry Ford as one of the greatest innovators in history. I tend to agree. I've been using Mac products since my college days. He has just an amazing ability to create entire new categories of products and have everyone else playing catchup. And the products are just so beautofully designed, they really belong in the Museum of Modern Art.
Mr. Tea
You do know the backstories on Messrs Edison and Ford, no?
Demonstrating the evils of alternating current at sideshows, and some of the more gruesome applications of Ford's greatest innovation?
Not to deny any of these people their talents, but the other half of the equation is how you use them.
Yes, Apple products are very beautiful from what I can see. The main thing that turns me off is that the whole thing comes from one source, plus I find some of the way their system works to be quirky.
Same thing for Gates. I like the foundation work he seems to be doing now, but that doesn't erase the horrible things his company has done.
I don't like Richard Stallman. Yes, it's awful that the corporations who produce the software that a lot tech geeks use can spy on us and control what we read, but the language the man uses to describe these issues( colonization, imprisonment) makes it seem as though the priviliged white, middle class male nerd who just perchased a new Mac is exactly the same as a first nations drug addict who is arrested and beaten by police for no reason. Pretending that white suburbanites are as underprivilalaged as those who have actually been conquered and subjugated is silly.
@ CMOT Dibbler
I don't see things exactly the same way he does either.
On the other hand, I don't reject the important part of the work he and those like him are doing just because I don't agree with all the rhetoric. The fact is he is one of the pioneers of free and open systems. without the work of him and others like him there would be no widely-accessible alternatives to proprietary computers.
Frankly I support most of what they are doing, and the bottom line is that my own views are much closer to his than those who are pushing closed systems, and trying to undermine alternatives.
Alot of people voted for Stephen Harper too. That doesn't mean I'm going to.
Apple's model of total control over it's end users is a model of computing that I'm opposed to. So I will never buy i-Thingies nor advocate the purchase of i-Thingies.
And, that's one of the beautiful things about the free market. If you don't like the iPhone (or any other Apple product), for whatever reason, you can simply buy a different phone. In contrast, if we have the government owning the means of all production (as many here advocate), you'd get whatever choices the government gave you. And, that I'm opposed to.
I see things mostly the way Stallman does but yes he is a bit of a hard ass on software freedom. I think we need hard asses from time to time to wake us up from our slumber on issues that are important.
In an increasingly digital society where our interactions are mediated by software, the software that we use should be controlled by communities and not by oligarchic corporations like Microsoft and Apple. When it suits their purposes Google occasionally collaborates with the community but when it doesn't they throw the community under a bus.
In any case without folks like Stallman, a lot of the web as we know it wouldn't exist. The majority of the world's web servers run on free software...the "LAMP stack" of GNU/Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP. rabble.ca runs on the GNU GPL licensed Drupal web content management system. 90% of the world's 500 fastest super computers run on GNU/Linux...not Windows, MacOSX or Unix.
Free software is at the back end of all kinds of computer and web services. It's the consumer space where software freedom is most lacking. That needs to change. And I suppose this week in particular I take inspiration from Jack's message "Don't let them tell you it can't be done".
What does that mean?
Encourage people to move off of using proprietary software on their proprietary Windows and MacOSX systems. Once they've largely done that, it's quite a bit easier to migrate folks away from non-free operating systems. Encourage the use of open file formats instead of proprietary ones...or at least make open file formats available along with the proprietary ones.
With portable audio devices it means not buying devices that "require" you to use proprietary software so that your computer can "talk" to your portable audio device. My one "expensive" portable audio player is made by a Korean company called "Cowon" and handles free media formats like Ogg Vorbis and FLAC out of the box. The players that I have that only handle proprietary MP3 files are cheapie 4 GB "Coby" players that I picked up on sale for $15.
If a portable audio player won't talk to my computer as a generic USB "Mass Storage Device", I don't want it.
With tablets and smartphones, software freedom is quite difficult. Apple's iOS, Microsoft Windows Mobile, RIM Blackberry OS are all non-free software. Even Android, which is supposed to be free software is problematic.
Software freedom is a goal...kind of like socialism. We'll probably never get to a place where we have 100% free as in freedom software. But if we get to a place where most of us are maybe 75 or 80% free software, and proprietary software is the exception to the rule, that's pretty damned good IMHO.
Right on rahim. There's a lot of us not the least fucking interested in the latest i-Turd.
But at least in a market-driven economy, you have a choice to buy a variety of alternatives to "the latest i-Turd".
And, that's one of the beautiful things about the free market. If you don't like the iPhone (or any other Apple product), for whatever reason, you can simply buy a different phone. In contrast, if we have the government owning the means of all production (as many here advocate), you'd get whatever choices the government gave you. And, that I'm opposed to.
I would no more want state control of software than I would want corporate control of software. I would like software controlled by global communities.
Also Sven, it would be good if you'd pay attention to what's happening with software patents. It isn't a free market by any means. Let's say you absolutely hate Microsoft and would never buy a Windows Mobile smartphone. Let's say you want to buy an HTC smartphone that runs Android instead. Because of patent extortion, HTC pays $5 per phone sold in licensing fees to Microsoft.
You can read about it here
radiorahim, most people don't really care about the politics of the things they buy. Whether it's a toaster, computer, lawn mower, phone, TV, light switch, or whatever, they just want the thing to work. They don't really care how it works (or about any of the techno stuff that does this or that). If they turn it on and it works reliably, they're happy. I like my MacBook Pro that I'm using right now because it's as reliable as the sun rising in the east and it's as easy for me to use as breathing.
Besides, if there are alternatives, like linux-based devices, that can deliver superior performance and at lower prices than the devices offered by corporations, then that will draw attention (and purchases) to those alternative devices.
Sven,
Well people certainly seem to care about the viruses, malware and bugs that microsoft is prone to.
And as for computing systems and the internet generally you should care, because it it not the same as your toaster. It is the utility that runs most of our communications, our commerce, our industry - everything.
And correct me if I am wrong radiorahim, but I think over two-thirds of all servers are unix-based, although Windows is trying to get in to that market. I know that on my sasktel account you have to specifically request if you want a windows server. In virtually every way it is a far superior system. The only difference as I understand it is that it was not as user friendly as windows (I know it wasn't 15 years ago) though that is not the case now.
It is not a matter of the systems being cheaper. You can get any linux system for free if you want.
Yes, I know many people don't care. But it is important that free alternatives are preserved and that the efforts to shut them down are resisted,
And correct me if I am wrong radiorahim, but I think over two-thirds of all servers are unix-based, although Windows is trying to get in to that market. I know that on my sasktel account you have to specifically request if you want a windows server. In virtually every way it is a far superior system. The only difference as I understand it is that it was not as user friendly as windows (I know it wasn't 15 years ago) though that is not the case now.
My understanding is that about 70% of the world's web servers run on the Apache web server software. Maybe 25% run on Microsoft IIS and the other 5% on other software. You can run Apache on a Windows server box but it's not done all that much. Apache is mostly run on GNU/Linux (free software) or Unix (some are free software, some proprietary).
The back end of Google, EBay, Facebook, Amazon, Twitter, most of the world's major stock exchanges all run on GNU/Linux servers.
radiorahim, most people don't really care about the politics of the things they buy. Whether it's a toaster, computer, lawn mower, phone, TV, light switch, or whatever, they just want the thing to work.
Sven, if you want to walk around with blinders on not giving a rats ass about exploitive labour conditions, the social and environmental impacts of things we buy or purchasing devices that aid in the corporate control of your electronic communications then go ahead. Nobody is stopping you.
Hell, why are you even on this board? It's a board where people tend to give a shit about stuff.
@ radiorahim #32
Thanks. I knew the vast majority used Unix or Linux-based. I also know that Windows has been trying to push its machines into that market, so I wasn't sure what the breakdown was now.
In an increasingly digital society where our interactions are mediated by software, the software that we use should be controlled by communities and not by oligarchic corporations like Microsoft and Apple. When it suits their purposes Google occasionally collaborates with the community but when it doesn't they throw the community under a bus.
That's just it though, is society becoming more digital?
I guess I should've listened to all of what Stallman had to say on the subject of free software, given that I use computers more then the average person. But regardless of how well intentioned these anti corporate hackers are, the issues they champion only effect a certain group of people whithin western society. There are huge masses of poor people in North America and Europe who Microsoft and Apple will never be able to touch. They don't own computers or credit cards, pay in cash when they have it, and don't give a shit about Steve Jobs. I would never have been able to afford my computer without finacial assistance, I don't earn enough to have a visa card, and purchasing an I Phone would be a major expense for me. Looking at the situation globally, only nine percent of Africans have access to the net. In Egypt, a country that was recently praised because of it's tech savy activists, only a small precentage of the population can actually go online. I would imagine it's the same for much of the majority world. This problem that we face is just that, OUR problem, something for the western middle classes to struggle with.
P.S. Just because someone buys a Microsoft or apple product it dosen't mean that an individual gets cut off from his or her community, unless of course, you only socialize online and the community you belong to is built around creating free software.
Sven, if you want to walk around with blinders on not giving a rats ass about exploitive labour conditions, the social and environmental impacts of things we buy or purchasing devices that aid in the corporate control of your electronic communications then go ahead. Nobody is stopping you.
Actually, when babblers referred to Apple's products as being manufactured by "slave labour" in China, I looked at some of the metrics of poverty in China after the Chinese leadership started to open up the economy. Twenty years ago, when China was just starting to get traction through the new liberalization policies in a meaningful way, 375 million Chinese (or 29.0% of the entire population) were living on $1 per day or less. By 1999, that was reduced to 224 million (or 19.2% of the population) and, by 2015, the projections are that those numbers will be down to 74 million (or only 9.1% of the population). The report, written by three professors working in three different Chinese universities, also said that income disparity is quickly widening in China (if you want a link to the PDF, I'd find it for you).
I'll take growing income disparity any day if the policies that lead to that disparity also lead to drastic reductions in poverty. And Apple undoubtedly has contributed to these conditions.
@CMOT. It's the free software community (and that's the community I've been talking about) that develops software that enables older computer equipment to stay in use. For example there's a Free Geek project that's active in Toronto that uses free software to rehab old computers that are then given away to low income folks and organizations. Most of these machines would end up in landfill sites or be shipped off to so-called recycling centres in third world countries where impoverished folks tear old equipment apart and are exposed to all kinds of chemical toxins.
I have a probably 12 year old Pentium II computer sitting in my basement (if anyone wants it they can have it!) that runs on a GNU/Linux operating system. A machine of this vintage can not run Microsoft's latest operating systems and if you were running old M$ operating systems they are unsupported by M$ and full of security holes.
I rehabbed an old 333 MHz. Celeron machine about five years ago...it was really old at the time...and gave it away to a friend who didn't have much money. My friend is still using that old clunker today...it works!
In the world of M$ Windows that machine would have been in the landfill a very long time ago.
Same goes for Macs. If your Mac is a bit older and won't run MacOSX, you can keep it going with GNU/Linux.
Saw an article today about a more recent bit of Apple hardware...the earlier "Apple TV" boxes. They're pretty much unsupported with Apple software, but you can keep the thing working as a media centre with XBMC...free software.
So if you're looking to help provide technology to folks who don't have much money, you're barking up the wrong tree if you think that's going to happen with Microsoft and Apple software. It's the free software community that can make technology more accessible.
@Sven. There are ethical considerations around buying/using certain things or not buying/using certain things. These decisions are about more than how much something costs and how convenient things are. It might be cheap to shop at Walmart and there might be a Walmart around the corner from me. But I won't shop there and my reasons are ethical.
Most folks around rabble and babble make a variety of different ethical decisions for various reasons. Progressive folks tend to want to create an ethical society.
I make ethical decisions around what software I use. As much as humanly possible I use software that a) I am free to use for any purpose b) that I can study how it works and change if I want to c) that allows me to freely distribute exact copies of the software so that I can help my friends and community and d) that I am free to modify and release my own modified version of the software to the public if I want to.
I may not be able to do b and d, but I benefit from the work of those who do have the skills to do b and d.
I directly benefit from a and c.
Let's say for instance you really like MacOSX and want to install it on a PC. It can be done (but it's a major undertaking). Apple's software license forbids you from doing that. Now in your home Apple probably wouldn't care. But let's say you were really good at getting MacOSX to work on PC hardware and decided to offer your MacOSX PC's for sale. Apple's lawyers would be on you really quick threatening legal action unless you stopped.
Let's say you had a file on a PC running Windows and it's a big file...let's say a video. Let's say you want to copy that file onto 20 computers simultaneously. Once you make the tenth connection, Windows blocks you from making the 11th connection. You can only make ten simultaneous connections to a Windows desktop operating system. There's no technical reason for this. It's that Microsoft stops you from doing this. If you want to do things like this you have to buy a Windows Server operating system at a much higher cost. How do I know this? Because I've tried to do it.
So with both Apple and Microsoft software you don't have the freedom to use it for any purpose.
Now with a GNU/Linux operating system I can do these things (and many more). GNU/Linux is licensed under the GNU General Public License which grants me the freedom to use that software for any purpose. That's why I use it.
As for the freedom to distribute copies? If you burn a couple of thousand copies of Microsoft Office and stand at the corner of Yonge and Bloor in downtown Toronto and hand them out, you'd probably get arrested...or at least sued.
If I stood at the same streetcorner and distributed a couple of thousand copies of Libre Office, which is free as in freedom software, I would have no problem at all. In fact the developers of Libre Office would probably chip in to pay for the blank disks.
So I want to use software that I am free to share with whoever I want to share it with...legally.
These are the ethical considerations that I make around software. Do I have these four fundamental freedoms? If yes, that's great. If not, I really don't want to use that software.
OK, so it isn't just our problem...
Rahim, you mentioned that you picked up a korean made Smartphone for 15 bucks. Where could I get a hold of one for that amount of money?
Is there a vancouver equivalent of the Free Geek project?
OK, so it isn't just our problem...
Rahim, you mentioned that you picked up a korean made Smartphone for 15 bucks. Where could I get a hold of one for that amount of money?
No, I picked up some cheapie 4 GB audio players for $15...they're were branded "Coby"...they don't have any more as they were on a clearance sale. Found them in the electronics outlet in a Real Canadian Superstore...at least the store is unionized ;)
The Korean made player (Cowon) was one that cost some more serious money...a little cheaper than what an iPod Nano was going for at the time. But the good thing about it is that it handles Ogg Vorbis and FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) files...something that can't be done with anything made by Apple (unless you hack the firmware with some free software called "Rockbox")
As for smartphones I don't have one yet. The closest thing I see to what I'm looking for is the Nexus S. It runs a version of Android that isn't burried in a pile of the manufacturers proprietary software crap.
Is there a vancouver equivalent of the Free Geek project?
Youre' in luck. Free Geek Vancouver
They do a kind of volunteer training programme. The idea is that you rebuild five machines and the sixth one you rebuild you can take home...(I might have the numbers wrong...but you get the idea). I think they also do a little thrift shop where if you're not a volunteer builder you can just buy used parts or used machines really cheap.
I was involved a little tiny bit with the early setup of Free Geek Toronto a couple of years ago.
Alot of people voted for Stephen Harper too. That doesn't mean I'm going to.
Apple's model of total control over it's end users is a model of computing that I'm opposed to. So I will never buy i-Thingies nor advocate the purchase of i-Thingies.
Then I guess that you'll be a slave to Microsoft and it's lack of control, along with it's products that crash and freeze all of the time, huh, smart guy?
Alot of people voted for Stephen Harper too. That doesn't mean I'm going to.
Apple's model of total control over it's end users is a model of computing that I'm opposed to. So I will never buy i-Thingies nor advocate the purchase of i-Thingies.
Then I guess that you'll be a slave to Microsoft and it's lack of control, along with it's products that crash and freeze all of the time, huh, smart guy?
I guess Sky Captain you're such an Apple fan boy that you never bothered to read any of my posts in the rest of the thread. My views are rather obvious...neither Coke nor Pepsi, neither Visa nor MasterCard, ....and neither Apple nor Microsoft!
Alot of people voted for Stephen Harper too. That doesn't mean I'm going to.
Apple's model of total control over it's end users is a model of computing that I'm opposed to. So I will never buy i-Thingies nor advocate the purchase of i-Thingies.
Then I guess that you'll be a slave to Microsoft and it's lack of control, along with it's products that crash and freeze all of the time, huh, smart guy?
I guess Sky Captain you're such an Apple fan boy that you never bothered to read any of my posts in the rest of the thread. My views are rather obvious...neither Coke nor Pepsi, neither Visa nor MasterCard, ....and neither Apple nor Microsoft!
Sorry, Radio Raheem, but quality control of a product is not 'total control over it's end users'or whtever bullshit (and it is bullshit) that you've justified to attack Steve Jobs and Apple. Quality control is a part of most products (and should be a part of most products) be they made in a capatalist or socialist economy/system/society-there should be no excuse for putting out a shoddy product that is easily corruptable by others, but that provides great service from the day you brought it up to now-which is what Apple provides in triplicate and then some, like most common sense Japanese manufacturers (also which is why Japan has the reputation it does worldwide, unlike its next-door neighbor) so far. Quality control is why a car dosen't fall apart when you drive it only a few days after you bought it, why a camera works well no matter what and dosen't fail, why a TV set is amazing from the time you bought it up to now, and so on. That's what people expect from a product, and again, Apple, its computers, and it's DOS, provides that in (easy to use) spades, unlike Microsoft and the hard-to-use Linux.
If you had said that you don't like Apple's censorship of the media in it's recent tablets (Apple censors underground comics classics and Apple censorship on the iPhone and iPad) then you and I would be in agreement. But this is just a blasting of a popular device, a well known company, and its creator just to prove how much of a big man you are that you can take on a big corporation and kick its ass. Well, I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it, or you. These concerns aside, Apple's products are world-renowned for what they are and how well they work, and you haven't proven anything except that you are a hater (and as is said, 'haters are going to hate'.) If that makes me what you accused me of (being an Apple lover) then so be it.
(Disclaimer: I don't own any Apple computers myself currently due to my financial situation and the high cost of said products, but if ever the situation changes [on my end], I would do so willingly.)
Technology isn't neutral, dummy. So go buy your iTurd, if and when you can afford it, and fondle and smell it lovingly in a dark corner out of sight of those who are more fond of "free as in freedom" . Don't pretend, however, that moonies for Apple is somehow "enlightened". lol.
PS. People I know who trade with China tell me that you get what you pay for from that country. If you buy cheap, and get shit, don't complain. The next guy bought the better quality products, and paid more, and his stuff is lasting years more than yours.
We all know what generalizations about the quality of products from certain countries REALLY means. Have a nice day.
@ Sky Captain
When is the last time you tried a linux operating system? You might want to check one of them out because contrary to how things were 15 years ago, it is no longer less user-friendly than windows.
Quite the opposite, actually. The last time I had to set up a windows partition it left me wanting to beat my head against the wall in frustration.
Compare that to most versions of linux which simply install themselves, configure the network by themselves, and have all the drivers built in.
And they are free as in you don't have to pay. And you also don't have to pay for virus and malware protection either.
....and check the label on some of those parts.
EVERYTHING comes from China, even many of the parts that get assembled to make those "high quality" Japanese, American and European devices.
At least my 'iTurd', as you call it, isn't going to be a cheap piece of crap that goes bad on me because it wasn't well made, or is full of buggy shit that makes it stop, or that is hard to use because of a super-hipster OS that's more difficult to install programs in and do tasks with than even Windows. What 'enlightenment' or sense of neutrality one gets from it-or not-is up to them.
If the Chinese want people to trust them, than as I said (or implied before) ALL products have to be good, not just some.
If I do things that cause people to believe I am wrong or full of it (e.g. personal behaviour at a job interview, social situation, or anything else in life) then the onus is on me to disprove it, not somebody else ('You never get a second chance to make a first impression'.)
@ Sky Captain
When is the last time you tried a linux operating system? You might want to check one of them out because contrary to how things were 15 years ago, it is no longer less user-friendly than windows.
Quite the opposite, actually. The last time I had to set up a windows partition it left me wanting to beat my head against the wall in frustration.
The program I had to use was Umbuntu Linux (around 2008)-it was alright for what basic things (surfing the 'Net, word processing) I needed, but little else beyond what I really wanted to do (making music videos, watching, burning movies onto and making movie DVD's, playing videogames, working with computer art programs like Poser). As soon as I was able to get Windows XP (and just reecntly Windows 7), I did so.
I might just check that out now that you mention it, but if said new Linux distro still doesn't work for me, well...
If the Chinese want people to trust them, than as I said (or implied before) ALL products have to be good, not just some.
Umm... do you really want to go there?
Who owns many of those factories? WHo buys those parts? Who sells them in their stores without worrying about quality?
For that matter, look at quality control, cheap ingredients and items which are designed to break and fall apart that are made in north america. There are plenty.
If the Chinese want people to trust them, than as I said (or implied before) ALL products have to be good, not just some.
Umm... do you really want to go there?
Who owns many of those factories? WHo buys those parts? Who sells them in their stores without worrying about quality?
For that matter, look at quality control, cheap ingredients and items which are designed to break and fall apart that are made in north america. There are plenty.
At least people know who and what they are dealing with here in North America by reputation. Nobody knows what's really going on in China, as seen by the recent scandals with the drugs and the toys.
Do we?
In the first place I think there are plenty of examples of poor quality items made here, and in places other than China.
And secondly, the responsibility for substandard items from ANY country lies with our government's controls, and the businesses which decide to sell them.
And the maxim of "you get what you pay for" is true, and there is nothing wrong with selling things which do not have the same intended lifespan as other higher quality items, so long as the customer knows that up front.
(edit)
And what's this?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8527700/Apple-investigates-e...
http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2006/06/7039.ars
Not to single out China, but rather Apple for being as much part of the game as everyone else.
Do we?
In the first place I think there are plenty of examples of poor quality items made here, and in places other than China.
There may be other examples as you suggested, but we are talking about the biggest trading partner ever to North America, and what thet are doing, not these other nation
Maybe so, but the responsibility also lies with the CPC to regulate China's companies just as much as we regulate ours.
Not when you're being deliberately misled by a company like this one whis say on ot's website that it's products are top quality and will last a long time (said product being television sets).
Here are two pages of complaints about the aforementioned company:
http://www.complaints.com/2006/october/25/Prima_television__Wed._Oct._25_3525.htm
http://www.complaints.com/2006/december/28/Prima_Television___MDG_Canada_3524.htm
And yes, I do know that many computer parts are made in China (my AMD ones were made there) but that does not give the right to anybody to be dishonest and pass off shoddy work as well made. If that's the image of China that people are getting, then they have to change it, not anybody else.
Who's actually doing the "passing off"?
The government of China, or the companies that design, build and install those parts, sell them to you, and take your money for it?
And again, you wouldn't even see those parts if our government didn't approve them as well. So it seems to me the government of Canada has as much if not more of a responsibility to protect you from your own bad choices.
In short, if you have a problem with the goods, and you don't want to pay to get something that is up to your standards, why are you complaining, rather than just paying what you need to to get the product you want?
And why are you blaming a party that is secondary to this, rather than the company that is cutting corners and taking your money for it?
I don't have a problem per se with said goods, since I have never brought them-I'm just pointing out what people have experienced about them.
If I didn't know any better, I'd say that you were looking to brown nose the asses of Mao, Zhang Zheimen, and the CPC. What's the matter, not getting enough sex from the wife?
I never knew that so many people could excuse the actions of a tolitarian regime so much, especially by bashing the Afro-American leader of a major world power and wanting him to fail.
Know what, Sky Captain. I don't mind being called ignorant, privileged, a bloodsucking capitalist or a fascist, but making assumptions about my family is a bit over the line.
Reported.
Though I will say, if you don't think you are buying anything from China, you just aren't looking hard enough. Be careful next time you are in the frozen vegetable aisle, for one thing.
I don't have a problem per se with said goods, since I have never brought them-I'm just pointing out what people have experienced about them.
If I didn't know any better, I'd say that you were looking to brown nose the asses of Mao, Zhang Zheimen, and the CPC. What's the matter, not getting enough sex from the wife?
I never knew that so many people could excuse the actions of a tolitarian regime so much, especially by bashing the Afro-American leader of a major world power and wanting him to fail.
Sky Captain, no personal attacks here. The "not getting enough sex from the wife" ... very juvenile. Surely you can do better.
So let me get this straight -
You're angry about people criticizing Apple even though you don't own any of their products and even though that company is guilty of the same thing you are complaining about - doing business in China.
And you are complaining about what you think are sub-standard products even though all your information is second hand, and you don't have any personal complaints about anything from there (although my guess is half your wardrobe and probably most of the appliances in your house come from there).
And you lay the blame on China alone even though there are plenty of factories and businesses in every country, including ours, which sell dodgy goods.
And you are talking as if this one government halfway across the world is more responsible than you doing due diligence and making sure that you are getting value for your dollar.
Sorry, but not only does your argument not make sense, it seems to be a front for some other issue. Maybe you should discuss this in a thread that actually concerns what is on your mind, rather than derailing a thread with something that is completely irrelevant/
So now there's unemployment at Apple?
I don't have a problem per se with said goods, since I have never brought them-I'm just pointing out what people have experienced about them.
If I didn't know any better, I'd say that you were looking to brown nose the asses of Mao, Zhang Zheimen, and the CPC. What's the matter, not getting enough sex from the wife?
I never knew that so many people could excuse the actions of a tolitarian regime so much, especially by bashing the Afro-American leader of a major world power and wanting him to fail.
Sky Captain, no personal attacks here. The "not getting enough sex from the wife" ... very juvenile. Surely you can do better.
Fine and good, but tell him to lay off of the 'corporate shill' insult, or the 'Apple fan boy' insult (I didn't see him insult Sven that way, so he shouldn't be insulting me.) If he or radiorahim don't do so, I'll continue to respond in kind.
Also, I think that radiorahim has lost the argument a couple of posts beforehand, and is just trying to continue it beyond it's viability level.
Fine and good, but tell him to lay off of the 'corporate shill' insult. If he or Radio Raheem don't do so, I'll respond in kind.
Hey dude, that's the
secondthird time you've deliberately spelled radiorahim's handle wrong, egregiously. Are you purposely baiting?You're no corporate shill. That was kind. You're a poor soul who really doesn't concern himself with anybody but himself. But keep on baiting here. Perhaps, beyond my hope (sorry Jack) that you'll actually learn anything.
Are you really interested in progressive politics or is it just fun to play games here? I'm asking an honest question.
Who said anything about you being a corporate shill? If I were to guess I think your concerns are about China.
That's your privilege, but it has nothing to do with what is being discussed here - especially not if you are trying to make some distinction between Apple and other computer companies.
Fine and good, but tell him to lay off of the 'corporate shill' insult. If he or Radio Raheem don't do so, I'll respond in kind.
Hey dude, that's the
secondthird time you've deliberately spelled radiorahim's handle wrong, egregiously. Are you purposely baiting?You're no corporate shill. That was kind. You're a poor soul who really doesn't concern himself with anybody but himself. But keep on baiting here. Perhaps, beyond my hope (sorry Jack) that you'll actually learn anything.
Are you really interested in progressive politics or is it just fun to play games here? I'm asking an honest question.
The real question should be, are you interested in progressive politics and solutions, or do you just want to be engaged in name-calling (myself, anybody else, Obama, etc.?) Right back at you.
As for radiorahim, I'll spell his handle right the next time, but I think that his choice of handle is unfortunate (Radio Raheem is nobody to admire or be like in Do The Right Thing, but an annoying troublemaker who causes the events of the film's climax. Also, the message that radiorahim may have got from Do The Right Thing is wrong-nobody is 'right' at the end (except for maybe Senor Love Daddy, who was the only one trying to keep tensions down the whole time [that doesn't mean what happened to Radio Raheem at the end was right, though].)
As for what I gleamed (or not) from Jack Layton, I'd say that it's you who hasn't done so, in particular his last message.
Fine and good, but tell him to lay off of the 'corporate shill' insult. If he or Radio Raheem don't do so, I'll respond in kind.
Hey dude, that's the
secondthird time you've deliberately spelled radiorahim's handle wrong, egregiously. Are you purposely baiting?You're no corporate shill. That was kind. You're a poor soul who really doesn't concern himself with anybody but himself. But keep on baiting here. Perhaps, beyond my hope (sorry Jack) that you'll actually learn anything.
Are you really interested in progressive politics or is it just fun to play games here? I'm asking an honest question.
The real question should be, are you interested in progressive politics and solutions, or do you just want to be engaged in name-calling (myself, anybody else, Obama, etc.?) Right back at you.
Answer the question. Why have you spelled radiorahim's moniker wrong 3 times in a row?
I enjoy freedom software. It's gotten me where I am.
I've just answered the question above in the edited post, please read.
WTF? How do you know the radiorahim handle relates to "Do the Right Thing"? Stereotype much?
Didn't you see the movie? That's where it's from. And why are you so quick to defend radiorahim? Can't he defend himself?
Off topic. Everyone, stop bickering and get back to the subject matter.
This just in - France yanks "Jew or not Jew" Apple application:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2011/09/apple-jew-app.html
Didn't they get in shit not too long ago for some anti-gay app?
Steve Jobs is dead.
Apple Inc. (AAPL-Q378.255.751.54%) co-founder and former CEO Steve Jobs, counted among the greatest American CEOs of his generation, died on Wednesday at the age of 56, after a years-long and highly public battle with cancer and other health issues.
Mr. Jobs’ death was announced by Apple in a statement late on Wednesday.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/apples-steve-jobs-dies...
The greatest tech visionary of our generation is gone. From Personal computers to Animated movies to song players to smart phones, it is hard to find anyone else whose vision affected our lives so much.
Nice how the Glib & Male compares Job, in his capacity as co-founder and CEO, as "deemed the heart and soul of a company that rivals Exxon Mobil as the most valuable in America." How fucked up is that?
Brilliant and visionary guy. One of my all time favourite ads from years ago was the Apple ad titled "Think Different." It ended with the line "The people who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world...are the ones who do." I think that sums him up pretty nicely. Rest in peace.
The greatest tech visionary of our generation is gone. From Personal computers to Animated movies to song players to smart phones, it is hard to find anyone else whose vision affected our lives so much.
A video overview.
i dont like iphone or blackberry. I think it makes us a poorer society.
i dont like iphone or blackberry. I think it makes us a poorer society.
How so?
In any event, the beautiful thing? You don't have to buy one!! (wink)
i dont intend to. I think these devices serve as distraction. Its techno garbage to me.
Per The New York Times: "He told a reporter that taking LSD was one of the two or three most important things he had done in his life."
CBC and CNN each did a long segment on Jobs, with no mention of his outsourcing jobs or human rights violations by Apple in third world countries. Why does he get a pass?
CBC and CNN each did a long segment on Jobs, with no mention of his outsourcing jobs or human rights violations by Apple in third world countries. Why does he get a pass?
He doesn't get a pass. He is recognized as a genius for things he did differently, not for things that all companies do.
CBC and CNN each did a long segment on Jobs, with no mention of his outsourcing jobs or human rights violations by Apple in third world countries. Why does he get a pass?
He shouldn't. The festival of praise, much of it deserved, really ought to be tempered with the less pleasant parts of the Apple story.
I've been away from this thread for a few weeks...in the meantime, tonight I learned of the passing of Steve Jobs.
Whatever I might think of the Apple empire, it's always sad to see someone's life end at so young an age.
As for him being a tech visionary? Not so much...other than his ability to wow the mainstream media through the corporate hype machine he built. It was a hype machine like no other in the tech sector.
In terms of being a tech visionary, and I would say tech revolutionary, for me that title would go to a former MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab hacker by the name of Richard Stallman. He founded the Free Software Foundation and authored the GNU General Public License. Without him, the servers that rabble.ca sits on wouldn't exist, neither would the web content management system that's used here, the OS that my computer is using and the web browser that I'm using as well. Without Stallman, there would be no Google, no Amazon, no Facebook, no Android (even though I think they're evil).
Stallman's "four essential freedoms" for computer users along with his development of "copyleft" have done more for the net than anything else.
Also, Stallman's politics have much more in common with those of the typical rabble reader or babble poster than Steve Jobs. Stallman believes that software should be developed and distributed based on an ethical system that respects social solidarity.
Jobs and Gates politics have little to nothing in common with most of us, and they both developed software that promotes "vendor lock-in" and respects corporate profits above all else.
Jobs and Gates politics have little to nothing in common with most of us, and they both developed software that promotes "vendor lock-in" and respects corporate profits above all else.
Well, I think you are wrong in this comparison. There is a huge difference between Gates and Jobs (or Microsoft and Apple) in this regard. I am an Android/Linux fan myself and Apple products never appealed to me precisely because of the locked-in feature that you mention. However the genius of Steve Jobs was to create products that took the hi-tech gadgets out of the exclusive domain of techies like you and me and brought it within the access of ordinary citizens. He was the true creator of the high tech consumer market.
In order to do that, he had to create a product that would work with no hassle and provide the user with a consistent performance. That can only be achieved by sandboxing the system. Anyone who has ever worked with Linux and Mac both can testify which one is easier to use for a non-technical person. IMO Microsoft locked the system to improve their profit, but Apple locked it to maintain a consistent performance.
It was said on this thread that Apple products look like a car with a sealed hood. That's true, but for 95% of drivers who do not care about what is under the hood, a sealed car with consistent driving experience is quite satisfactory. That's the essence of the consumer hi tech market that Steve Jobs developed at the time that no one believed computers would ever become a consumer product (check Scully's interview about Jobs).
Jobs did not invent personal computer, computer-animated movies, MP3 player or smart phone. But in each of these areas, he built products that brought those (previously) obscure concepts into the mainstream consumer market, using elegant user interface design and feature selection. That was his genius.
Obviously this argument in no way diminishes the important and revolutionary role of Stallman and GNU project either. But without the hi-tech consumer market that Jobs created (and went far beyond Apple), the impact of Stallman work would have remained limited to techies, and not the masses.
I use an Android phone myself but I have a MacBook Pro that I find so infinitely better than every PC I've ever owned, an iPod that I couldn't imagine living without, and an iPad that I adore and which I think is already revolutionizing teh way my kids learn. Just watching them use it and their eyes lighting up is one of my great joys in life.
Henry Ford once said that if he has simply asked people at the time what they wanted, they would have told him that they wanted a faster horse. Steve Jobs' genius was in creating products that we didn't even know we wanted or needed and showing us how they could be indispensible to our lives.
Well said, sanizadah. I'm one of the 95% of people who couldn't care less about what is "under the hood of my car". I just want the damned thing to work, with ease, and to do so consistently. I really like my Mac and iPod. Ms. Sven uses and (figuratively) loves her iPad2 (it's great, for example, to have in the kitchen for when she's cooking, which is her avocation and a true love of hers, for referencing a variety of things on the web). In about a week, I'm going to get the iPhone 4S (and if Ms. Sven uses it and likes it, she'll likely get one, too).
These devices are simple to use, highly functional, reliable, and elegantly designed. That is where Jobs was uniquely a visionary.
Nice how the Glib & Male compares Job, in his capacity as co-founder and CEO, as "deemed the heart and soul of a company that rivals Exxon Mobil as the most valuable in America." How fucked up is that?
I think it's useful to remember that when Jobs was brought back into Apple in late 1997, Apple was on the ropes and in real danger of going extinct. As one overview of Apple's history noted, "Apple's financial losses, meanwhile, mounted, reaching $816 million in 1996 and a staggering $1 billion in 1997." Jobs immediately set about redesigning the objectives of the company. And the result of those efforts was a company that started to produce products that hundreds of millions of people enjoy and find useful in their lives (e.g., over 300 million iPods have been sold worldwide).
So, no, I don't begrudge Apple for being well-rewarded for those efforts.
Check out boingboing's homage:
www.boingboing.net
(no idea how long they'll leave the format up)
yawn
I don't know about other provinces, but I know here there are ads on TV warning people about the dangers of driving by while sleepy.
I have found the tributes (mostly) and criticism (limited) I have seen online very interesting, particularly since Apple culture has never really appealed to me.
One friend of mine on facebook is posting a series of different Apple machines. I get the point, but it is a bit odd, considering this is about a person's death.
I wonder if things would be different if Apple hadn't dominated the graphics and media market for so many years.
Smith .... Boing Boing runs on Wordpress...which is free software licensed under the GNU GPL. The hand of Stallman...not Jobs.
What Everyone Is Too Polite To Say About Steve Jobs
Steve Jobs Was No Jack Layton
Sven, iPod's are not "easy" to use. They're designed so that the only way they will "talk" to your computer if you use iTunes software. I want to talk to my portable music player using any damned software I feel like using. So, they're only "easy" to use if you surrender to Apple's digital prison. Screw that. I refuse to surrender.
With the iPad and the iPhone, you can only install software from Apple's "app store" unless you go the route of "jailbreaking" your device. If you bust your device out of the Apple prison, here's an example of the kind of thing that happens. Apple is in a constant state of war with it's customers over who controls your device. I'm kind of old-fashioned that way. I like to own my electronic gizmos and not be a tenant on them.
Smith .... Boing Boing runs on Wordpress...which is free software licensed under the GNU GPL. The hand of Stallman...not Jobs.
Somehow that does not surprise me given a lot of their coverage of the issues around patents and copyright.
Still, as a cultural tip of the hat (something else they tend to do) I do think it was a neat tribute.
If I could I would buy a black and white flip top cell phone that does telephone calls and nothing else. The only technological advance I appreciate since then are the smaller sizes. I don't need to check facebook on my telephone, I don't need to hit obstacles with birds, and I don't need a camera.