babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Toronto Catholic board to debate if religion trumps rights of gay students
August 30, 2011 - 10:56pm
Full article at xtra.ca
Pity there aren't similar support groups to help cure people suffering from Catholicism.
There must be a cream or ointment for it. Fundamentalism that is.
I await the human rightscomplaints and charter challenges.
Yeah, I saw both threads.
It's a bit harder than if it were a public school, and I find it kind of annoying, because the simplest solution to dealing with these organizations is to starve them into submission.
But I do feel for the poor students who are stuck in those places and run against the grain of their horrible system of dogma, and the few parents who are apparently trying to change things. I have a couple of friends who have either sent their kids there, or who are thinking of it because apparently they have a great arts program (and I suppose they do, so long as you don't make any pro-choice posters there).
That said, I didn't expect the board to come up with any other answer- even on the small compromise WRT bullying - and I agree with Caissa. Clearly the only way these institutions will be reformed is by being compelled to do so by the law.
Why is this not becoming an election issue?
I guess the Catholics are too powerful. TOTM.
I'm adding this to the long list of reasons why we have to eliminate this entire "seperate" school board. They are about to break the law.. and worst say that its cause its God's will... it just angers me to no end.
I went through the catholic school system, there was nothing in place to protect Queer students in the late 90's, especially in the small towns. One vivid manditory mass that i had to attend was filled with such love for your fellow man "gays and pregnant teens are evil sinner..." was the theme.
more fodder for the fight i suppoe
Defund the catholic schools. Teaching homophobia is not acceptable especially when done with public funds.
Northern Shoveler.... can we defund competitive team sports in schools too? (I am only half joking...)
Sure if you want. I am serious that religious schools not just catholic schools should get no public money. In Ontario they have to deal with the constitution to defund the separate schools.
In BC we fund every type of religious fundamentalist or elitist school one can think of. Cutting those schools off the public purse is never an election issue out here either. Politicians are afraid of the religious lobbies in all the major cultural groups. No party wants active enemies in BC from the evangelicals, Catholics, Sikhs and all the private non denominational schools because they will mount nasty negative campaigns that would take other social justice issues off the front burner.
That's unfortunate, because I don't want my money going to support a system that actively undermines the public system and tries to indoctrinate their graduates with crazed thinking. It's kind of astounding when one comes to think of it just how much public money goes into subsidizing private schools. One would think since we're in a budget crunch this (cutting these subsidizes to non-public and non-secular schools) could be made into a winnable issue.
Confronting Ontario's Catholic schools
New anti-bullying legislation in Ontario, but the Ontario Catholic School Trustees Association won't allow GSAs to be called GSAs.
I'm normally not one to agree with the Catholic church but I see the point here.
I don't see why there should be Gay Straight Alliances specifically versus clubs to address bullying and equity issues that affect everyone.
There was a funeral in Quebec yesterday for a girl who committed suicide after enduring excessive bullying. She wasn't gay, she was just the new girl in school who got picked in. A few weeks ago, another young girl committed suicide after bullying. She wasn't gay either. She was bullied for being overweight. Last week in Winnipeg, a girl had her hair set on fire by a bully. It was because she's Jewish.
Bullying doesn't only affect gay kids (though it may do so disproportionately). Bullying against anyone is unacceptable and must not be tolerated. Whether it's because someone is gay, Jewish, overwight, or whatever reason mean kids will invent as a reason to pick on somebody and make their life hell.
I don't see why "Gay Straight Alliance" is a better solution, as that focuses on one segment versus saying THAT every student should feel safe, accepted and welcomed in their school.
Gay Straight Alliances aren't only about bullying experienced by LGBTQ youth. GSAs aren't just for talking about homophobia and various oppressions and violence that LGBTQ students face.
From Pink Triangle Services:
What Maysie said. Consider yourself educated.
Students should have the right to organize without interference from the administration.
I think that kind of sums it up. And it's particularly important where the administration happens to be linked to an institution which opposes fundamental human rights, such as the rights of women, of queer people, etc.
I'm not challening students' right to start such a club. I'm questioning whether it's the best approach to dealing with a much wider issue.
I think the problem with ofcusing so much on "Gay Straight Alliances" is that it frames the issue of bullying as a "gay issue" when, in fact, bullying affects kids from all backgrounds, all walks of life, all of whom deserve support.
A gay straight alliance focuses it on one segment of the student population, whereas a braoder "equity" group is for everyone. A gay straight alliance does nothing for the kid who gets bullied for being overweight or for being perceived as a "nerd" or for the kid like me who got teased for having an accent or for all teh other kids who are affected by bullying. There are suicides every day in this country. Many by young people. Most of whom aren't gay. Addressing the issue through a specifically gay lens makes it seem like a gay issue when mental health, depression, bullying and suicide affect everybody.
I do understand your argument, Mr. Tea.
On the other hand, it's not an anti-bullying campaign. It is a gay-straght alliance. As I understand it, the focus is on mutual support and education on issues of gender and orientation.
Orientation is something which is sidestepped, ignored, and oppressed and outlawed in very specific ways.It is opposed by religious and cultural tradition, and criminalized. People are bullied, beaten and killed because of it daily, and people who commit these crimes get excused as often as not.
I have seen and heard advertising (some, not all) promoting the anti-homophobic bullying campaign in schools, but which for some reason makes no mention of homophobia. Why is that?
I think your idea about not ignoring other forms of bullying and depression is a good one. I am sure there are a lot of areas of mutual support, and that if someone started a group in a school about other aspects of depression and abuse and lack of inclusion it would be quite complementary.
But there is a good reason why this campaign has developed in this way, and around this issue. A lot of people don't want to face or even talk about homophobia, which is the reason people organized in this way in the first place, and why it needs to be at the forefront. Trying to generalize it may seem like being more inclusive, but what it actually does is give people an excuse to sweep this most central point of misunderstanding and hatred under the rug.
I'm sure the Catholic Church and its homophobic underlings running Ontario schools would be pleased to invite Mr. Tea as a guest speaker to explain to these very demanding students why there's a better approach to whatever it is they're demanding, oh, life is so so difficult when you're just trying to run a morally pure academic environment on taxpayers' money, oh my goodness, whatever will they think of next.
Mr Tea, if you had read the link you would have a better understanding of the intent and purpose of GSAs.
If you choose to not read about or understand what GSAs are for, there's a limit to the quality of your participation in a discussion of this issue.
Mr. Tea, Maysie - who is frequently more patient than I am - has kindly outlined what a Gay Straight Alliance does. Your questions about its being "the best way to deal with bullying" are disingenuous. Your argument conveniently leaves out the "Straight" part of the alliance, making it seem exclusive and excluding. Before I label you homophobic, I suggest you think carefully about what it is you are really objecting to.
The issue of bullying is wider than the bullying of kids who are LGBTQ, or who are thought to be LGBTQ. Bullying, as Mr Tea has outlined, affects all sorts of students. There needs to be, and there just was, a policy-level response (in Ontario). Such a response needs to be top-down, with teeth for consequences, training for staff and teachers, etc.
Kids of colour, Aboriginal kids, other kids who are social awkward, etc, LGBTQ kids, disabled kids, fat kids, are all targets of bullying.
GSAs are run by and for the students, with little to no administrative involvement. There's a reason for that, which I completely support.
But bullying and harassment are a separate issue, even though of course there's some overlap.
Yes it includes "straights" but so would a broader "equity" club which implicitly includes everyone.
And if you don't realize that there are some kids (I'd argue many kids) who simply do not want to join something called a "gay straight alliance" you're kidding yourself.
I can tell you that when I was in school, I would have had big problems joining any club with "gay" in teh title as I would have feared being teased precisley for that. I was already being teased for having a "funny accent" and for coming from a country seen as "terrorist" (never mind that it was my family being terrorized, which is why we left) and for not being able to afford the cool clothes and for being behind in school initially because English wasn't my family's language.
Relying on a gay straight alliance to meet the needs of that kid, or the overweight kid, or the nerdy kid or the por kid or the Jewish kid or the black kid or teh kid who teh kids jsut decided to torment for whatever reasons they decided isn't going to cut it. It frames bullying as being primarily a gay issue when that couldn't be further from the truth. Bullying along with depression and broader mental health issues know no colour, sexual orientation, religion, class background, etc.
I'll add that I saw Maysie's post about how bullying is a separate issue. It may be but they're highly connected and I just see a lot of sense in focusing resources against any and all forms of bullying against any student in a school versus dividing the student body up further. I see a comprehensive approach for all students as providing more value.
To reiterate, I have no issue with students forming gay straight alliances. I just think that bullying is a much broader issue and these GSAs will barely make a dent in the bigger problem.
Your view is a narrow one. You make assumptions that straight kids would think they are stigmatized by belonging to such a group. By doing so, you reveal you own bias and that you haven't carefully read the mandate of a GSA kindly posted by Maysie. There are a bunch of things being made clear here, that you're not seeing. I urge you to educate yourself on homophobic ideas I before relieve you from your commitment to contributing to babble.
That's not what GSAs are for. There's no argument here.
I would like to add that having a GSA in a school is a positive tide which floats all boats. In challenging the bullying culture in such a direct and powerful way there can be little doubt that it will create a better and more supportive atmosphere for all who find themselves victims of bullying. The light which eminates from such a movement can only offer warmth for all.