Quйbec snow tire law - do the math!

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Unionist
Quйbec snow tire law - do the math!

 

Unionist

I love this.

Quйbec has legislated mandatory snow tires on all vehicles as of every December 15. The CAA-Quйbec opposes it, preferring education to legislation which it says will be unenforceable. It also says drivers might be tempted to leave their snow tires on year round, which wears the tread faster and is also thought to be less effective on warm dry roads.

A Transport Quйbec official responded (from the Montreal Gazette this morning - sorry not available online):

quote:

"What would you have us do? Pass a law making four season tire use mandatory in the summer? [That was a joke.] Thirty-eight per cent of accidents that occur in winter involve at least one vehicle equipped with four season tires."

My twisted mind reframed that as follows:

[i]Almost two-thirds of accidents in winter involve vehicles all of which are equipped with snow tires.[/i]

I love statistics!

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I wonder if the province's new law makes exceptions for vehicles visiting from out of the province?

Unionist

quote:


Originally posted by Boom Boom:
[b]I wonder if the province's new law makes exceptions for vehicles visiting from out of the province?[/b]

Good question! I think that's part of what the CAA meant as "unenforceable".

George Victor

Sprung for four snow tires for my daughter's old Corolla last November.

First snowfall she calls me up during her drive, exulting over the greater traction and safety.
"Thanks a lot, dad," did it for me.

And now that she has junked her cellphone, she won't have to worry about being pulled over for ignoring the about-to-be-announced ban on hand-operated cellphones in Ontario ...joining Quebec, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland Labrador.

Sometimes the law isn't a complete ass.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

No enforcement officers here on the coast except once in a blue moon, so we'll continue to use all-season tires. I see a problem when some of our Coasters who leave their vehicles in Natashquan all year make the occasional trip to Sept-Iles and beyond - seems a bit unfair to force a new set of expensive snow tires on folks who only drive out once or twice in winter.

Unionist

quote:


Originally posted by George Victor:
[b]Sprung for four snow tires for my daughter's old Corolla last November.

First snowfall she calls me up during her drive, exulting over the greater traction and safety.
"Thanks a lot, dad," did it for me.

And now that she has junked her cellphone, she won't have to worry about being pulled over for ignoring the about-to-be-announced ban on hand-operated cellphones in Ontario ...joining Quebec, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland Labrador.

Sometimes the law isn't a complete ass.[/b]


I love your post, George. I have a daughter-driver too. The combination of heightened safety and an occasional "Thank You" are enough to make any parent's day.

George Victor

quote:


No enforcement officers here on the coast except once in a blue moon, so we'll continue to use all-season tires. I see a problem when some of our Coasters who leave their vehicles in Natashquan all year make the occasional trip to Sept-Iles and beyond - seems a bit unfair to force a new set of expensive snow tires on folks who only drive out once or twice in winter.


"Occasional trips" anywhere, seem to be the norm up there, BB.

With that kinda mileage, those tires should last as long as the vehicles if they are removed come end of April. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]

George Victor

Hope we can replicate many more progressive features of your provincial (national) government, u.

Bit of a obit for the ADQs chances in the Globe this morning - and hoping for its outright disappearance. Good to see the advance of humanitarian principles in one spot on the planet at least.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I think next year I'll buy a set of cheap rims and mount snow tires on them, and just use them all year, because a) I don't drive very far anyway, and b) maybe snow tires would be better on our gravel roads here summer and fall (we don't really have a spring here - just winter and not-so-quite winter).

Unionist

quote:


Originally posted by Boom Boom:
[b]I think next year I'll buy a set of cheap rims and mount snow tires on them, and just use them all year, because a) I don't drive very far anyway, and b) maybe snow tires would be better on our gravel roads here summer and fall (we don't really have a spring here - just winter and not-so-quite winter).[/b]

Let me know how that works out.

Although the law is of course well-intentioned (and will be a boost for the Canada Tire sector of the economy!!), it is promulgated with typical Liberal insouciance:

How the hell are the poor and near-poor supposed to afford a new set of tires?

Should they decide which costs more - the tires, or the fine, and factor in the odds of getting caught?

Should they use that hard-won set of snow tires longer, while time erodes both tread and safety?

It's the Liberal way. Still, like the hands-free cellphone prohibition, it's better than nothing.

Hey, maybe that's a good campaign slogan for Charest, if he does indeed take the December 8 plunge:

We're better than nothing!

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

double post

[ 29 October 2008: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I actually think dedicated snow tires in winter are a good idea, and used them when I lived on the mainland - in northern Ontario for 20+ years, and they likely saved my life on a few occasions. Nonetheless, I think they should be a choice, and not legislated, because some folks have grown up learning on all season tires, and maybe snow tires will simply make these folks overconfident in winter.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I just hope that the law includes rental companies. I have flown into Pearson airport when it has been snowing and they had not a single vehicle with snow tires. I then had to go out on to the 401 in a snow storn with All Season tires. I was not impressed.

Actually the first law should be that all rental car companies have to equip their vehicles with snow tires from November 1 to April 1.

George Victor

[img]redface.gif" border="0[/img]

quote:

How the hell are the poor and near-poor supposed to afford a new set of tires?


Yep, that was only me exulting in a personal survival mode. Don't do that in all things. The hated food bank (which should not be necessary) is my first charity after my daughter.

Guess I have to expand my conscience (there must be lots of room in there somewhere).

But, perhaps some "near poor" will find a way to put them on and avoid fatal accidents or dismemberment? (or something)

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I had expected challenges to this new law from some tire manufacturers, as I recall reading years ago an article in either Road & Track or Car and Driver, that the latest generation of high quality all-season tires are as good as any dedicated snow tires.

George Victor

quote:


I had expected challenges to this new law from some tire manufacturers, as I recall reading years ago an article in either Road & Track or Car and Driver, that the latest generation of high quality all-season tires are as good as any dedicated snow tires.


Nope, they're made of a softer composite material that flexes, does not grow hard in the cold weather and hugs slippery surfaces. The real McCoy. Guess we should be calling them "winter" tires, not just "snow".

That's why you put them on late and take 'em off early. They wear like ice cream on Canada Day (well, down here, farther from the North Pole that imagery works, anyway).

Just got four (litle 13-inchers, the last in stock) at a Can.Tire special, at $69 plus tax each. Installation free.

[ 30 October 2008: Message edited by: George Victor ]

G. Muffin

quote:


Originally posted by Boom Boom:
[b] ... I recall reading years ago an article in either Road & Track or Car and Driver, that the latest generation of high quality all-season tires are as good as any dedicated snow tires.[/b]

That's always been my experience, Boom Boom. Mind you, I'm a West Coast wussie driver so I've never experienced real snow on the roads. But I commuted two winters from Duncan to Victoria over the Malahat and I never, ever had a problem.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I guess I was wrong. All the links I've looked at today recommend dedicated winter tires instead of all-season, except in southern climes where winter driving isn't as difficult as it is in areas prone to heavy snow. The APA have [url=http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=49]this[/url] page of info on the subject.

excerpt:

Even brand new, an all-season tire will not approach the performance of a dedicated snow tire in slush or on ice.

scott scott's picture

You have to manage for the worst conditions that you will face. If that is black ice or compact snow than that means proper snow tires. I just buy snow tires and when they are less than 50% tread I only use them in the summer - so I still have 2 set of tires but they are both snoweys - one new and one worn.

I have been pretty broke in the past but brakes and tires are two things I don't skimp on.

George Victor

quote:


How the hell are the poor and near-poor supposed to afford a new set of tires?


I'll bet that, in light of the December election call, all parties will promise to set back the date for the required changeover to winter tires.
Any takers? [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Tommy_Paine

My dad always told me that four season radials were okay for winter-- as long as they had good tread depth. So when I got new tires, I made sure I ran the old ones to October or November, and had new tires, oh, every other winter or so.

But then, much as I miss my dad's usually sage advice, I should have remembered that this was the guy who used to run his tires down to the chords. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]

So, year before last I finally got outfitted with snow tires, and I swear by them now. They are all they claim to be.

Rebecca West outfitted her car with snow tires last weekend, and a good thing. The demand in Quebec will leave Ontario short soon.

As far as accident statistics, we all know how statistics can be manipulated.

However, it will be interesting to see if winter accident rates go down in Quebec. I can see them increasing, too-- people with snows can drive faster in bad weather than people without. A bad mix? Maybe the real benifit of snows would only be felt if compliance was very high?