Quebec election to follow federal election

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Unionist

lagatta wrote:
Remember the Vatican Rag? Genuflect! Genuflect!

Do I remember it? How do I forget it?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f72CTDe4-0

Kinetix

This is rough.

I believe in social democracy. I believe in labour rights.  I believe in public housing, health care and ownership of electrical infrastructure. I believe that it is unethical for government to dictate what language I use to communicate with my co-workers or customers as long as we understand each other.  I believe in provincial support of public transit and environmental stewardship.

The election is two weeks away and in my Montreal riding of Hochelaga Maissoneuve the only official candidates are Liberal and PQ.  I want to vote but it looks like I may have to spoil my ballot.

At least when I lived in Verdun my Quebec Solidaire candidate was opposed to separation and suppression of language minorities, but the QS as a whole is still for these things since for some reason they are acceptable here.   I guess it doesn't really matter since I don't even have a QS candidate in my riding.

What am I to do?

Unionist

Kinetix wrote:
What am I to do?

Offer to run for QS?

lagatta

Oh, those puir language minorities. We shut them up in caves, you know. Anything to suppress them.

Seriously, since I suspect you are referring to anglophones and not Aboriginal peoples or new immigrants subjected to all manner of discrimination (such as non-recognition of professional qualifications), I really haven't much pity. They dominate the world. This is on the same level as men's rights (masculinistes) - wanting to go back to the old order.

Unionist

Sign the petition to demand that Québec solidaire and Parti vert be included in the televised leaders' debate:

viigan

"I believe that it is unethical for government to dictate what language I use to communicate with my co-workers or customers as long as we understand each other. "

 

You've moved to the wrong province then. Ethical subtleties only apply to the majority here. The reason it's rough is because there is an entire segment of the population that is denied political representation, so you water down your expectations and cast your vote for whatever scraps you can get: namely a federalist party that is short on progressive values, continues to enforce the same linguistic bullshit as the rest, but at least it doesn't sow it's votes from hate propaganda targeting the provinces English minorities and other immigrants.

lagatta

Well, perhaps you would vote for such a rightwing, anti-working-class party, but that is your problem, as well as your odd desire for a return to the old order of "speak white".

Hate propaganda? What planet are you living on?

martin dufresne

Don't know which planet, but probably not Hochelaga-Maisonneuve if he doesn't know Serge Mongeau has long been the Quebec Solidaire candidate in that riding...

http://quebecsolidaire.net/hochelaga-maisonneuve 

Unionist

Martin, your link is no good. Try this one instead:

[url=http://quebecsolidaire.net/hochelaga-maisonneuve]Serge Mongeau announces candidacy in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve[/url]

kim elliott kim elliott's picture

Pierre Beaudet blogged on the Quebec election last week: http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/pierre-beaudet/qu%C3%A9bec-2008-non-election-election

viigan

"...a return to the old order of "speak white."

 

Well let me wipe a tear for the suffering, oppressed multitudes of the Quebec of yesteryear. Oh wait, Quebecers are a part of the global colonialist populations that taught other nations how to speak white at the point of a gun and the edge of a bayonet across the world.

It's the native populations that are trying to piece together their disappearing languages while under the umbrella of civilized Europe, yet certain Quebecers would have you believe that they are the victims of North America - bullshit of course, to put it mildly.

Unionist, I can't seem to find the link for the English translation  on the QS link you posted.  If I am to communicate in French with my Francophone neighbours out of respect for their culture, then I expect the same courtesy in return before I consider casting my ballot for them.

lagatta

I don't suppose you've ever read the famous poem "Speak White", by Michelle Lalonde? Québécois workers were told to "speak white" by anglo bosses.

Screw off if you aren't prepared to learn French. I couldn't expect to work in Toronto or Vancouver if I didn't speak English. I can't speak for QS, but personally I wouldn't want your vote.

Reminds me of an antisemite who was going to support a strike I was a leader of because "the boss is a Jew". (So was the union president, by the way). We told the fucker to go on in - but he just turned and ran. I think I was about to clobber the racist shit with my picket sign... (This was 30 years ago).

That candidate is in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve, not Verdun or the Point. There are practically no anglophones that far east, and every single one of them speaks French (some were actually anglophones, who worked at Vickers, others Slavic people who learnt English as a second language and French as a third).

Definitely agree with the work on reviving and promoting Aboriginal languages - I know people who are giving Innu lessons, and you can also learn Mohawk in these parts - but that is a different issue from your anti-Québécois rants.

viigan

"Screw off if you aren't prepared to learn French."

This is an assumption on your part. Whether or not I speak french is not the issue here. What is important to note is that there are a large number of Quebecers who share my views on the level of political representation that they recieve in this province. Your remark of not wanting my vote is highly indicative of the status many Anglphones and Allophones are subjected to as second class citizens who are consistently forced to vote for the lesser of all evils to them, but still have no voice. And when they do, as in the referendum, they are scapegoated by our political leaders and the applauding mobs of Herouxvillistes.

 

 "We told the fucker to go on in - but he just turned and ran. I think I was about to clobber the racist shit with my picket sign.."

 

Your endless self promotion is growing tiresome and gruesomely embarassing. I don't know why you must include these bits in all your posts when you feel challenged. I couldn't give a rats ass if you supported workers thirty years ago. It's an action that is generally rendered meaningless, in my opinion, when you support racially based policies such as 101 and the authorities that enforce such legislation by shutting down schools, designating the proper place for the use of a language, and bearing down on 'culprits' with fines and/or the loss of their jobs. These are not progressive policies and the next time you burp up the term Rhodesian, maybe you should check the mirror to see if the application fits the reflection better than your intended target.

 

"That candidate is in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve, not Verdun or the Point. There are practically no anglophones that far east, and every single one of them speaks French"

 

Again, it doesn't really matter where the candidate is running. I don't know any Anglophone Montrealers that do not speak French. The issue is not one of understanding the text. Contrary to your faulty perception of history, this province has NEVER been entirely made up of Francophones. These, 'autres' as they are disparagingly referred to, have the same right to be treated in an equal manner as their Francophone counterparts who will line up to vote. As such, if they will court my vote, they should at least offer a bilingual site for me to peruse, as I am forced to offer the same if I own any type of business in Quebec, even if it deals with out of province Anglophones a hundred percent of the time.

 

"Definitely agree with the work on reviving and promoting Aboriginal languages - I know people who are giving Innu lessons, and you can also learn Mohawk in these parts - but that is a different issue from your anti-Québécois rants."

 

I'm not the one making the plight of the FNs an issue in the Quebec political shere. It is apologists like yourself who seek to usurp the experience of dominated indigenous peoples around the world, often at the hands of Francophones, to seek justification for the 1930s worldview that is prevalent in this province - namely, a view that has race, religion and language at it's core as support for policies that are were better left in the past.

lagatta

Fuck off. I don't know why anti-Québécois bigots like you are allowed to post on a progressive board.

I've been involved in labour and popular movements for decades - those who actually know me (including the founder of this site) can certainly confirm that. Including some very tough ones for refugee rights and against the discrimination experienced by immigrant workers. That has nothing to do with self-promotion, but you are such a Québec-hating piece of racist filth that whatever anyone in the labour and popular movement here says is something to oppose and subvert in the name of the so-terribly-oppressed English language.

I have never in my life said that Québec was entirely made up of francophones; I have a graduate degree in history so that would have been a very odd assertion. (All the more so since my thesis concerns an immigrant workers' associaiton!) You are the one who is denying the history of oppression of the Québécois people, and the many progressive aspects of the struggle against it. Not Lionel Groulx and his ilk; Michel Chartrand and his.

Go join Free Dominion or some other rightwing, Québec-hating site. You have nothing to contribute here but the dregs of bigotry.

viigan

"I've been involved in labour and popular movements for decades - those who actually know me (including the founder of this site) can certainly confirm that. Including some very tough ones for refugee rights and against the discrimination experienced by immigrant workers. "

 

Good for you, but I don't recall asking for a resume. If you can't reach, maybe leaning against a wall will give you the pat you're looking for. The rest of your post, like every other of your challenged remarks, does not address any points. It's just an angry rhetort of a bruised ego. I don't know how you managed to defend a thesis in this manner but perhaps you should ask the educational institution for a refund.

 

"You are the one who is denying the history of oppression of the Québécois people, and the many progressive aspects of the struggle against it"

 

If you think that I'm doing this then perhaps you should educate me and the rest of the board about the oppression of the Francophones in Quebec. When I obtained my History degree and did my graduate studies the historical record did not justify your incessant whining.

I have never denied the progressive aspects of the Quiet Revolution, as I will not deny the benefits reaped by workers in fascist Europe under their totalitarian regimes. That does not mean that oppressing the minorities that live among us can be justified because the fucking trains run on time.

Your persistent refusal to aknowledge the concerns of hundreds of thousands of your fellow citizens who do not share your political views and to simply broadstroak them in villainous shades as bigots, intolerant etc, to shut them up, makes you the poster child of everything that is wrong with this province and a solid reminder that any pretensions of progressive ideals by Franco-first parties in this province are simply a case of the wolf masquerading as the shepherd.

 

lagatta

Fuck off and die, you bigoted piece of shit. I haven't the slightest interest in "addressing" your points.

It would take someone far more progressive than you to "bruise" my ego. You have no business on a progressive board.

I have complained to the moderators about your constant anti-Québécois trolling. That is it. Basta. Va te faire enculer. Vaffanculo. Capisce?

viigan

So just don't respond to my posts. I'm not really interested in talking to you either.

 

lagatta

Yes, but you have NO BUSINESS on a progressive board. I'll respond to you the same way I'll respond to any masculiniste, homophobe or other racist filth.

FUCK OFF AND DIE.

lagatta

Does anti-Québécois or anti-francophone bigotry get a pass on this board, or this site? It most certainly would not have been the intent of its founder, whom I have known for decades and who has always respected the Québécois people (of all ethnic origins) and recognised our right to self-determination.

I'm absolutely sure that if anyone were to troll the board with systemic insults against any other national, racial, sexual, gender or other human group as to how we are somehow congenitally fascist, or contruct straw-person oppression as in the "Fathers4Justice" as a means to go back to the old order, that person would have been long banned.

The insults regarding my honour as an activist and intellectual can be addressed elsewhere, but this person has systematically been insulting the entire Québécois social formation. This is counter to any attempt to build links with activists here in Québec, which was something the founders of rabble held very dear.

viigan

Your accusations are laughable. I see no specific examples of any of your assertions, as there is never any evidence to support your statements in any other posts. But since you're evidently so upset,

 

http://www.puffs.com/en_US/index.shtml

 

"It most certainly would not have been the intent of its founder, whom I have known for decades.."

BTW, nice name dropping, rofl

lagatta

go fuck yourself, macho bully.

martin dufresne

As the one who started this thread, I protest viigan's continuous belittlement of Quebec progressives and especially his personal character assassination of lagatta.

What does anyone have to gain from his continuing presence on Babble?

Unionist

martin dufresne wrote:

As the one who started this thread, I protest viigan's continuous belittlement of Quebec progressives and especially his personal character assassination of lagatta.

What does anyone have to gain from his continuing presence on Babble?

Fully agree.

And speaking of your opening post, I am bemused at how the New Babble is trying to Russify our homeland:

Quote:
Quйbec solidaire intends to demand air time in televised ads and
leaders debates, as Quebec legislation allows for parties who have
garnered at least 5% of the popular vote in the latest contest.

 

viigan

"Fully agree"

Unionist, you're the last poster that should be protesting the belittling of others. Come on, I've been on this site since its inception, it's your bread and butter. 

Maybe if you all hold hands in a sacred circle of trust and incestuous intellectualism of complete agreement, and type just hard enough, you'll get me banned like you've managed to do with many others that disagreed with you  and (God forbid!), spoke their minds. You might need the ego stroke you derive from this board more than they do. After all, you don't even bother addressing the posts, but just snipe from the sidelines waylaying honesty with opportunity for cheap complaints.

Unionist

The PQ's campaign is pretty impotent, pretty much reflecting the way their politics have degenerated.

Today on CBC Radio One, they had spokespersons for the Libs, the PQ, and the ADQ talking about health care. The ADQ character (while a creep in his own right) blasted the PQ for hypocrisy, pointing out (very accurately) how the Bouchard government had offered generous buyouts to doctors and other health care types in the 1990s while limiting enrolment in medical schools.

The cowardly PQ type (sorry, didn't catch the names) was feeble in response. I was hoping she would say:

You're absolutely right. My party had lost its way ten years ago. That's history now. We're turning the page. We're going to reverse our errors in the course of crushing the "two tiers" that Charest has fostered and that your party would love to make a single private tier!

But they don't like to get votes... So the beneficiary of the debate was the Liberal, and they haven't even issued a platform yet! They're copying the tactics of Dumont in 2007 and Harper in 2008, to not give the opposition a clear target. And in the absence of any vocal and visible opposition from the left, it may just work.

martin dufresne

unionist wrote; "I am bemused at how the New Babble is trying to Russify our homeland"

Déjà vu... First they came for the Québécois...Mmmm... the problem seems to have been purged... Next thing you see, they'll have the trains running on time. Perhaps even a New Babble FAQ. (OK, OK, I'm dreaming...)

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Weird events involving McKay's nomination meeting, as reported by the CEEB

http://www.cbc.ca/news/quebecvotes2008/story/2008/11/10/qv-pqfightassomp...

 

oldgoat

FYI, viigan is no longer with us.  Carry on.

Slumberjack

Chalk up another triumph for the vice and virtue committee, while at the same time, being left completely unaccountable for their own vitriolic performance.  Amazing

martin dufresne

I want to be viiiiiice!!!

Seriously, Slumberjack, can you sit for the kind of libelous b-s we had been served with here? Nothing that unionist or I have written ever stooped to that level.

End of thread drift, promised. (And thanks, oldgoat.)

martin dufresne

One interesting angle of the Quebec election is that now that there is a credible Left party on the ballot, pundits are rushing to the op-ed pages with pronouncements of the death of the Left or that Right-wing parties have now veered left or that the Parti Québécois is the Left or that the Left must become efficient, serious, etc. (Former Parizeau advisor Jean-François Lisée has just published a book by that title.) Clearly damage control moves from eightists, including old-line sovereignists who don't seem to realize that QS is bringing back to politics a lot of folks who had grown disaffected since the various blows struck by Péquiste governments against the working class, which have led to its abandonment by almost all progressive organizations except at the time of referenda, none being forthcoming.

lagatta

They are trying to steal the strategy of the French socialist party against the radical left that is often more popular than the PS - and certainly than the remains of the PC! But the Socialist Party does have a lot more historical claim to being the "left".

Indeed, the idea of "seriousness" and "efficiency" as opposed to basic social-democratic positions such as defence of universal public health care are a sure sign one is not "Left" in any meaningful sense. Pauline Marois has been defending the absurd early retirement for a huge contingent of experienced nurses, many of whom had not reached 50 - and who played a far more important role in medicine than the general patriarchal analysis ever realised.

An aside - I'm so happy no plan to save the Grand Prix could be worked out. Sure, I want people in the hospitality sector wo have work, but I think there is a lot more we could do to attract visitors to Montréal without succumbing to such blackmail!

adma

What's the likelihood that QS may win more seats than the ADQ?

 

Don't chortle.

toddsschneider

Kinetix wrote:
At least when I lived in Verdun my Quebec Solidaire candidate was opposed to separation and suppression of language minorities, but the QS as a whole is still for these things since for some reason they are acceptable here.   I guess it doesn't really matter since I don't even have a QS candidate in my riding.

What am I to do?

I cannot comment on all other issues you mentioned, other than public transit and environmental stewardship, but when it comes to sovereignty as well, you could vote Green:

"[Provincial] Greens are looking to flourish in Quebec"

http://tinyurl.com/665mu6

"The party also has no position on Quebec sovereignty.

"And if [party leader Guy] Rainville or another Green candidate is elected, how will the MNA vote on a motion affecting the status of Quebec in Confederation?

"Although the party is trying to present itself as more than a one-issue group, Rainville makes it clear that when it comes to Quebec independence, he will not take a stand.

" 'If a vote comes up, I will abstain.' "

toddsschneider

martin dufresne wrote:
One interesting angle of the Quebec election is that now that there is a credible Left party on the ballot, pundits are rushing to the op-ed pages with pronouncements of the death of the Left or that Right-wing parties have now veered left or that the Parti Québécois is the Left or that the Left must become efficient, serious, etc. (Former Parizeau advisor Jean-François Lisée has just published a book by that title.) Clearly damage control moves from eightists [sic], including old-line sovereignists who don't seem to realize that QS is bringing back to politics a lot of folks who had grown disaffected since the various blows struck by Péquiste governments against the working class, which have led to its abandonment by almost all progressive organizations except at the time of referenda, none being forthcoming.

Who, Quebec solidaire? Bringing back to politics a lot of folks?  Four percent provincially, same as the Greens.  And that's electoral support, not partisan activists.

With all due respect, serious and credible parties win seats.  One will do.

"Eightists"?  Surely you mean rightists?

Kinetix

martindufresne, thank you.  As of my previous posting, the only candidates listed on the official site of the DGEQ were of the PQ and the ADQ.  As of today, the only ones listed are the PQ, Lib, Vert, and ADQ.  The QS candidate in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve appears not yet registered with the DGEQ.

I am trying to choose my words carefully, as I know that Québec has been a long fight indeed and I do not wish to belittle that.  

Before one makes assumptions about my language views, please note that I speak French in my home and am of Aboriginal, French and British heritage.  I feel that it is important for us as a society to remember why that fight was fought and to forge a new inclusive society with the Québecois French framework.  What I have seen happen here is the replacement of one dominant linguistic regime with another, and that is to our collective detriment. That being said, I am not interested in having this debate in this forum; I want help finding a suitable candidate to support.

The language laws in Quebec are not my primary concern, however, I still feel that they are important in how I decide to cast my ballot.  Our dollars, as few as there are, could be (in my opinion) better spent elsewhere, such as in healthcare or social housing as these are more important issues for me.  I don't like that my tax dollars are being spend to tell people what they're allowed to say and how they're allowed to say it, and such is my right as an elector.

Saying that I chose the wrong place to live is very unfortunate because I feel that regardless of where one chooses (or does not choose as circumstances arise) to live, one has the right to express opinions and speak out against what is perceived as an injustice.

I hope that explains my feelings on the issue.  I certainly didn't mean to bruise anyone.

martin dufresne

Yeah, I mean rightists. And I am serious about bringing back a lot of folks to electoral politics. If QS can be seen as a viable alternative to the Big Three (well, 2 1/2...) rigmarole, with a decent change of electing 2 or 3 MLAs, many Québécois who are now staying home would come out and vote... against your "serious and credible candidate", Mr. Schneider.Tongue out

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Ken, why a) do we need to see that Victor Jara passage in each of your posts, b) is it eight lines long and c) is it before everything you post instead of after?

toddsschneider

"Lost in translation: English mangled on notice sent to voters"

 http://tinyurl.com/68xjvb

" 'See to back' of notice for more information and be sure to 'stay inform' about how to vote.  Those
are examples of mangled English found on 3.7 million notices about
electoral-list revision that Quebec's chief electoral officer sent to
voters this week ...

" 'It's sloppy - they're mistakes a 3-year-old wouldn't make,' said
Allan Lemieux, a francophone. 'When we ask English people to translate
something into French and publish it, we expect it to be done
correctly. How can we ask that if we can't do it for English people?' ...

" 'We have been reproached in the National Assembly for providing
services in English" that go beyond what is required by law' [Denis Dion, a spokesperson for the chief electoral said] ..."

 

 

 

toddsschneider

ghoris wrote:
For the Quebec residents on the board, where does this election seem to be going? From afar it appears that the ADQ will likely slip back to third party status again and the PQ will bounce back somewhat, the question, it seems to me, is whether those deserting the ADQ flock to the PQ or divide between the PQ and Liberals, in which case one would think Charest would be on track for a majority.

Majority within Charest's grasp, poll suggests

http://tinyurl.com/6ho6yl

"QUEBEC, MONTREAL — Almost midway into the Quebec
election campaign Jean Charest's Liberals have mustered enough support
among a largely uninterested electorate to inch their way into majority
government territory, but still need to solidify francophone voter
support.

"A poll conducted by Leger Marketing for The Globe and Mail and the
Montreal daily Le Devoir finds the Liberals leading by 11 points over
the Parti Québécois with the Action Démocratique du Québec far behind,
apparently failing to generate any momentum. Despite a strong lead, the
Liberals still trail the PQ by two percentage points among francophone
voters, who will be the determining factor in close races, especially
in the suburban ridings around Montreal.

"The survey of 1,002 Quebeckers shows the Liberals at 44 per cent, three
points higher than last week's Leger Marketing poll. The Liberal gain
was made partly at the expense of the PQ, which at 33 per cent lost two
points in the past week. The ADQ is at a virtual standstill at 15 per
cent, almost the same as the last poll but well below the 31 per cent
support the party had in the March, 2007, election. The Green Party and
the left-wing pro-sovereignty Québec Solidaire had 4 per cent each. A
poll this size is considered accurate to within 3.4 percentage points,
19 times out of 20 ..."

 

toddsschneider

Kinetix wrote:


martindufresne, thank you.  As of my previous posting, the only candidates listed on the official site of the DGEQ were of the PQ and the ADQ.  As of today, the only ones listed are the PQ, Lib, Vert, and ADQ.  The QS candidate in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve appears not yet registered with the DGEQ.


I am trying to choose my words carefully, as I know that Québec has been a long fight indeed and I do not wish to belittle that.  


Before one makes assumptions about my language views, please note that I speak French in my home and am of Aboriginal, French and British heritage.  I feel that it is important for us as a society to remember why that fight was fought and to forge a new inclusive society with the Québecois French framework.  What I have seen happen here is the replacement of one dominant linguistic regime with another, and that is to our collective detriment. That being said, I am not interested in having this debate in this forum; I want help finding a suitable candidate to support.


The language laws in Quebec are not my primary concern, however, I still feel that they are important in how I decide to cast my ballot.  Our dollars, as few as there are, could be (in my opinion) better spent elsewhere, such as in healthcare or social housing as these are more important issues for me.  I don't like that my tax dollars are being spend to tell people what they're allowed to say and how they're allowed to say it, and such is my right as an elector.


Saying that I chose the wrong place to live is very unfortunate because I feel that regardless of where one chooses (or does not choose as circumstances arise) to live, one has the right to express opinions and speak out against what is perceived as an injustice.


I hope that explains my feelings on the issue.  I certainly didn't mean to bruise anyone.

Thanks for your consideration, we could use a lot more of that around here.  Simple justice demands no less.

One should have the right to express oneself freely, within certain limits, while taking responsibility for it.  But watch out for the progressive pile-on in this forum.

Your tax dollars could be put to different use, surely, and people's energies also could.  Good thing contributions to rabble.ca are not eligible for public subsidies.

I look forward to your further contributions to the discourse.

lagatta

I did NOT do that dreadful translation.

In fairness I've seen lots of dreadful translations into French as well.

The Charter of the French Language pertains to the language of business and commercial signs, and to the language of education.

It has nothing to do with free expression. Le Parti indépendantiste has every right to distribute literature in French only, just as Nutik's anti-French group has the right to do the same in English alone. Churches, mosques, synagogues and temples can post messages and signs in any language they wish, as can community associations.

I think it is important, as do a majority of people in Québec, to protect our difference from the North American English steamroller.

Moreover, I strongly advocate more support to the protection and promotion of Aboriginal languages. Sure, it costs money, but I think it is well worth it.

This is a progressive forum, so I don't see why "progressive pile-on" should be an issue.

Todd, I strongly disagree with you, but I don't ever recall you insulting people, calling them covert fascists, or taking obvious pleasure in "upsetting" them. That is why several people here protested the presence of a certain poster.

toddsschneider

lagatta wrote:
Oh [aggressive language deleted] you're going to vote for a (centre) right bourgeois party because you don't agree with Quйbec solidaire about the constitution? Almost all the QS people I know voted for the NDP, though the latter is federalist. The election isn't a referendum.

Yes, QS stands for Quйbec sovereignty, mostly for reasons of democracy from below and self-determination, not nationalism. But it is rather obsessed with deliberation and democratic process - certainly not inclined to force an "йlection rйfйrendaire".

I know several non-sovereignists who vote QS, and at least one who has stood as a candidate for us.

Some such people apparently also vote for the Parti Quebecois:

http://tinyurl.com/62ofuu

""Support for sovereignty is on the decline and is now
perilously close to the psychological threshold of one third of the
electorate. Support for the yes side is now at 37 %, which is below the
result of the first referendum in 1980. Even more surprising,
one-quarter of PQ voters are now opposed to Québec sovereignty."

What's this I read about QS supporting an endum-referendum? A once-and-for-all vote on Quebec's place in Confederation?

Can we do it now, please?

toddsschneider

"Charest is tapping into the mood of Quebecers: 'Give me a majority and I won't bother you for 4 years,' he tells voters. It's working"

http://tinyurl.com/5m89gf

" ... [T]he CROP question is an assisted one, where voters rank their
priorities on a list of 15 issues read to them. But in the Liberals'
internal research, the question is unprompted and the economy leads by
a wide margin over health care ...

Which confirms the wisdom of Marois's decision to put sovereignty on
the shelf for this election cycle - there isn't a promise to hold a
referendum if the PQ is elected. But it's pretty hard for the PQ to
motivate its base if its leader can't even give a pep talk about
sovereignty. The other issue that always works for the PQ, the defence
of Quebec's interests, ranks only 10th.

"As for Dumont, who nearly won the 2007 election on the identity issue
of reasonable accommodation, "the integration of immigrants" ranks only
13th. The rate of immigration ranks dead last - 15th. So, what was that
all about? ..."

toddsschneider

Parti indépendantiste

[Wikipedia]

"According to leader Éric Tremblay, the PQ has given up the will to actively seek the sovereignty of Quebec. Tremblay considers that, if given a majority of seats at the National Assembly of Quebec, the Parti indépendantiste will have clear mandate to achieve sovereignty, even if it receives less than 50% of the popular vote.

"Its chief, Éric Tremblay,
does not hide his intention to put an end to all public financing of
English-language schools and hospitals come his election, even though
he would offer unilingual English-speakers care in their language.

"The party suggests a reduction of more than half of the number of
immigrants admitted, which would be reduced to 20 000, and the
selection of immigrants based solely on the knowledge of French.[1]"

There's no comparison with Affiliation Quebec.

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Catchfire wrote:
Ken, why a) do we need to see that Victor Jara passage in each of your posts, b) is it eight lines long and c) is it before everything you post instead of after?

 

It is intended as my signature line.   It was meant to be AFTER the posts, not before(someone could advise me how to correct that).

It is the last verse of the song "Canto Libre".  I'll try to adjust it.

 

lagatta

There is lots of comparison between the hardline Parti indépendantiste and Nutik's nutgroup. Parties for narrow-minded bigots of their respective groups. Sadly, I know someone who ran for Parti indépendantiste last time. This created an uncomfortable moment at this year's May Day demonstration. I did not want to take her to task for that, but I don't feel "friendly" to someone who would support such a party either.

I believe you deleted "oh fuck", or something like that, which was an expression of exasperation, not aggression. I'm quite capable of being aggressive to rightwing trolls, and make no bones about that. The person I was exasperated about is a proclaimed leftist/feminist who was actually about to vote for the PLQ, a rightwing pro-business party. (I mean rightwing in that sense, not "far right" like the ADQ). I don't feel aggressive at all towards her, it is just a matter of throwing up my hands in dismay ...

At least I presume that is why you are quoting me out of the blue.

lagatta

There is lots of comparison between the hardline Parti indépendantiste and Nutik's nutgroup. Parties for narrow-minded bigots of their respective groups. Sadly, I know someone who ran for Parti indépendantiste last time. This created an uncomfortable moment at this year's May Day demonstration. I did not want to take her to task for that, but I don't feel "friendly" to someone who would support such a party either.

I believe you deleted "oh fuck", or something like that, which was an expression of exasperation, not aggression. I'm quite capable of being aggressive to rightwing trolls, and make no bones about that. The person I was exasperated about is a proclaimed leftist/feminist who was actually about to vote for the PLQ, a rightwing pro-business party. (I mean rightwing in that sense, not "far right" like the ADQ). I don't feel aggressive at all towards her, it is just a matter of throwing up my hands in dismay ...

At least I presume that is why you are quoting me out of the blue.

toddsschneider

I never quote you out of the blue. I always try to make my comments cogent. Don't assume or presume, just ask.

Putting aside the question of tenor, show us one example of Allen Nutik's/AffiliationQuebec's putative "anti-French" tenets? Just one will suffice, and we can address that, reasonably.

Anti-sovereignty does not count, or there would be quite a few anti-French francophones in this province.

toddsschneider

martin dufresne wrote:
Yeah, I mean rightists. And I am serious about bringing back a lot of folks to electoral politics. If QS can be seen as a viable alternative to the Big Three (well, 2 1/2...) rigmarole, with a decent change of electing 2 or 3 MLAs, many Québécois who are now staying home would come out and vote... against your "serious and credible candidate", Mr. Schneider.Tongue out

With all due respect, you don't know who my candidate is, Martin, as I have not declared yet.  And even when I do, let us thank good men and women for instituting the secret ballot.

QS is at this point (especially because of first-past-the-post voting) still a protest vote.  I should be glad to see them in the provincial parliament, in order to broaden electoral politics.

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