The CBC may be gutted but we shouldn't make its death easy

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Catchfire Catchfire's picture

omg, Sven killed this thread.

George Victor

As I say, Catchfire, his input is a very valuable look at the political pathology south of the 49th that gave us Bush and Rush and the whole sick spectrum.

 

Slumberjack

And apparently, they're now putting addictive substances in Pablum.  Truth becomes as painful to ingest as methadone.

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Quote:
Those who pride themselves on the more detailed information they can track down on the internet are, for the most part, deluding themselves. The internet is home to news aggregators, rather than actual journalism. There is no financial model operating anywhere on the internet that provides salaries for those skilled in investigative journalism. That function remains the domain of large networks and printed papers.

Actually, that isn't true. The Christian Science Monitor, for example, has announced they are putting there entire operation on line. The Internet is home to aggregators, but it is also home to almost every news gathering organization big and small. What is delusional is the pretending the greatest sea-change in information gathering and dissemination is somehow of lesser status than what is avaialble in mainstream publications.

As for investigative journalism, how many are currently employed by North American newspapers? What have been their big breaking stories? Did they get the no WMDs in Iraq thing?

Quote:
So what, exactly, would be the mission of the government-funded media?  To express and promote a broad array of ideas across the entire political spectrum?

Yes, precisely. That is what public media should do. And it doesn't.

The Ontario NDP just elected a new leader. Other than news reports that were mostly dismissive, I have heard nothing else about her. But then this morning I heard the CBC announce a segment with some Conservative MPP to discuss who will replace the Conservative leader who couldn't win an election.

And you see, this is my point. The left, even the moderate left of the NDP and trade union movement and all that entails, is excluded from the public debate on our public broadcaster.

And the solution of many who debate this issue is to "change the government" so that the CBC can be "fixed" or reformed. But they don't tell us how one wins an election when one can't even get into the debate. 

In the last two Ontario elections the NDP didn't even win enough seats for official party status.  The CBC promotes the two party dichotomy and that excludes from the public debate almost everyone who posts on this site and who would demand the CBC be saved to continue excluding them from the public debate.

 

Sven Sven's picture

George Victor wrote:

And David Frum has written a Newsweek cover story entitled "Why Rush is Wrong"...

[SNIP]

I'll bet it is not carried by all newspapers in that thriving marketplace of ideas south of the 49th. Have to keep the loyal advertisers in mind.

Do you not even realize what you have written?  A cover story on Newsweek (a major "corporate" media outlet) is criticizing "the Right".  The way you've been arguing here, you'd think that was against the very laws of physics and the rules of mathematical probability.

Guess it's not.

Furthermore, do a Google search of: "David Frum" "Rush Limbaugh" Newsweek "Why Rush is Wrong".

What do you get?

Twelve thousand hits (many of them links to major "corporate" media).

But, in the end, I get your point that government-funded media is essential in order for critical information like that about the Right to get published and that without such media we'd all be in the dark.  [IMG]http://i34.tinypic.com/11raq06.gif[/IMG]

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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

George Victor

Whenever I have driven across the land of the free, I've made a point of picking up a newspaper in every town, and listened to the local talk show on radio. And it is always a relief to come home, to know what is happening in the world.

You speak for a nation of closed minds, Sven. Don't try to kid an old kidder. Your marketplaces of finance and ideas are bankrupt.

David Frum's mother, Barbara, was a much listened to after dinner voice on CBC, contacting people around the world, interviewing them on news stories and giving us insight into the politics and daily lives of people we would never have learned about otherwise. The program continues today, but Barbara was the best.

It is our hope that her son will remain in residence in the land of the free where no such program exists. There is a theory that he migrated south to write for a more gullible conservative audience, people having trouble understanding why those folks in Canuckistan would take on single payer, government sponsored health care when everyone knows that is just eating up the hard earned taxes of the consumers.

Well, don't have to tell you how many networks are backing comprehensive medical care, eh?

And yes, I wrote about David Frum and Rush Limberger just to refute my own point, you childish ass.

Sven Sven's picture

George Victor wrote:

You speak for a nation of closed minds, Sven.

 

I speak for myself.

George Victor wrote:
 

...you childish ass.

That is the surest sign of a spent line of reasoning.

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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

oldgoat

Why you're right Sven, it's just starting to get good.

Caissa

Is "childish ass" now an acceptable term of endearment?

George Victor

If you construe ass as donkey.

Sven Sven's picture

oldgoat wrote:
Why you're right Sven, it's just starting to get good.

Wink

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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Frustrated Mess wrote:

Quote:
Those who pride themselves on the more detailed information they can track down on the internet are, for the most part, deluding themselves. The internet is home to news aggregators, rather than actual journalism. There is no financial model operating anywhere on the internet that provides salaries for those skilled in investigative journalism. That function remains the domain of large networks and printed papers.

Actually, that isn't true. The Christian Science Monitor, for example, has announced they are putting there entire operation on line. The Internet is home to aggregators, but it is also home to almost every news gathering organization big and small. What is delusional is the pretending the greatest sea-change in information gathering and dissemination is somehow of lesser status than what is avaialble in mainstream publications.

You've ignored my point completely. I'll be happy to answer questions as soon as you point out an existing internet revenue model that supports a working news bureau.

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

The Christian Science Monitor.  

Quote:
The paper is currently published Monday through Friday, and will move to online only in April, although it will also introduce a weekend magazine. John Yemma, The Monitor’s editor, said that moving to a Web focus will mean it can keep its eight foreign bureaus open.

“We have the luxury — the opportunity — of making a leap that most newspapers will have to make in the next five years,” Mr. Yemma said.

The Monitor is an anomaly in journalism, a nonprofit financed by a church and delivered through the mail. But with seven Pulitzer Prizes and a reputation for thoughtful writing and strong international coverage, it long

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/29/business/media/29paper.html

But I think you've missed the point. The point is not employment for journalists but news, information, and an inclusive debate. I'm not aware of any journalists who buy computers not because they need software and tools but because they want to keep me and my colleagues in a job.

And how about you, LTJ? Do you own many buggy whips? 

 

 

 

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

No, I'm rather certain that it's you who missed the point. A church-sponsored web magazine is not an example of revenue provided by internet sources.

BTW, the internet is generally superior at inclusive debate. It's the original news and information that is lacking - its current source is inevitably traditional journalism, funded by newspapers and networks. 

George Victor

News people now in online news postions, quoted  in a NYTimes article today confirm that, LTJ.:

 

"Many critics and competitors of newspapers — including online start-ups that have been hailed as the future of journalism — say that no one should welcome their demise.

“It would be a terrible thing for any city for the dominant paper to go under, because that’s who does the bulk of the serious reporting,” said Joel Kramer, former editor and publisher of The Star Tribune and now the editor and chief executive of MinnPost .com, an online news organization in Minneapolis.

“Places like us would spring up,” he said, “but they wouldn’t be nearly as big. We can tweak the papers and compete with them, but we can’t replace them.”

 

George Victor

And from Friends of Canadian Broadcasting comes the warning, today:

 

"Harper chose Hubert Lacroix as CBC's President. It appears that since then, Lacroix has been busy implementing Harper's agenda.

First, President Lacroix bought American game and variety shows like Jeopardy!, Wheel of Fortune and The Martha Stewart Show.  He paid inflated prices for shows that should have no place on our national broadcaster to outbid private broadcasters and that put a huge dent in CBC's budget. 

CBC's budget took a second hit when these programs failed to deliver hoped for ad revenue in the economic downturn.

This double whammy is now the excuse for putting ads on CBC Radio.  This might be music to Stephen Harper's ears but it sounds like a disaster to us."

 

Sure is for this Canuck.

George Victor

And the machinations of Hubert Lacroix were detailed in a Toronto Star editorial , Jan. 27, 2008, when he agreed to a deal with  Fireworks International, a division of British-based Content Film to sell international rights to 135 titles - 700hours of television programming. Canadian companies were shut out of the bidding.

 

Ian Morrison of Friends of Canadian Broadcasting said the CBC is "not displaying the kind of prudence with the stewardship of public funds that you would expect of a national public broadcaster."

 

It's the sort of thing you would expect an ideologue like Sven to do if he were hired by the PM to rid the state of an encumbrance like the CBC.  Public medicine will take a little longer to get rid of, having more friends than a public broadcaster that can be nibbled away.

The previous month - December 2007 - the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission released its decision to approve CanWest Global Communications'   $2,3 B takeover of Alliance Atlantis Communications with help from New York's  Goldman Sachs.Smile 

CanWest said it would still control Alliance Atlantis through a majority of the voting shares.

CanWest was already cutting jobs at some of iits television and newspaper properties, the former Southam empire sold off by our jailed lord.

For Steve and company, blind to the bubble, this met all of Sven's requirements, the "rough and tumble of the market."

Sven Sven's picture

George Victor wrote:

...this met all of Sven's requirements, the "rough and tumble of the market."

You're rather have stability and get consistent pablum?

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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Sven Sven's picture

You know, GV, you haven't even attempted to articulate how government-funded media would help achieve your stated goal (in fact, you haven't even stated a such a goal!!!).

Instead, you simply grind away at what you don't like about current media and off-handedly insist that government-funded media as the solution.

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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Caissa

First, President Lacroix bought American game and variety shows like Jeopardy!,

 The addition of Jeopardy is one of the best decisions made by the CBC in recent times. My 7 and 12 year olds love it.

George Victor

But they were costly purchases, Caissa. And they have helped put CBC in the red (Friends saw it as a purposeful act) and we now get advertising on CBC radio to pay for it.

Steve will screw us out of a major  Canadian institution yet. Afraid this country is in Jeopardy.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Hate to have to say it again, Sven, but we really aren't obliged to justify Canadian institutions to a foreigner.

That said, I'll give you a minute or two...

Many of us remember a better CBC (particularly CBC radio) from the days before Paul Martin. We cling to the possibility that it could be at least that good again; though many of us are thoroughly disgusted by how easily the Corp. was co-opted by politicos.

Sven Sven's picture

Lard Tunderin Jeezus wrote:

Hate to have to say it again, Sven, but we really aren't obliged to justify Canadian institutions to a foreigner.

I'll keep that in mind the next time I see a criticism here of America.  Hope you will, too.

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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

al-Qa'bong

Ya gotta admit though, Lard Tunderin', that it's a tad easier justifying "The Beachcombers" or "Eclectic Circus" than it is a global military and economic empire.

Sven Sven's picture

al-Qa'bong wrote:
Ya gotta admit though, Lard Tunderin', that it's a tad easier justifying "The Beachcombers" or "Eclectic Circus" than it is a global military and economic empire.

I'm not talking about global military excursions.  I'm talking about stuff like creationism in schools or other domestic matters (like CBC is a domestic matter).

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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Sven Sven's picture

But, as I said earlier:

Quote:

You know, GV, you haven't even attempted to articulate how government-funded media would help achieve your stated goal (in fact, you haven't even stated a such a goal!!!).

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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Could your lack of comprehension of the issue result from from the fact that we still have this, while you no longer have this?

Of course, George is not the only one avoiding questions here. You were amongst those citing the superiority of the internet news paradigm, but you haven't stepped up to provide us with a working revenue model.

al-Qa'bong

Quote:
I'm not talking about global military excursions.  I'm talking about stuff like creationism in schools ...
  ...as if they aren't connected.

Michelle

You know what I think is hilarious?  Sven wanted this thread to stay open past 100 posts, and then he killed the formatting somehow (not sure how, and I'm sure it wasn't his fault, but still) - at 100 posts!

Closing this, for formatting. :D

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