Charlie Hebdo - new!

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6079_Smith_W

Rex Murphy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFtDgrC4_EI

And IMO Rushdie was right in his statement quoted in this editorial, even if he was wrong in his condemnation of the dissenters. Good to see Rex is more open-minded on that.

 

 

DaveW

agreed, Lagatta, a terrible article;

re Charlie: ""why don’t they ever poke fun at the Western neo-colonialism, at the grotesque Western election system, or at the Western allies that are committing genocides all over the world: India, Israel, Indonesia, Rwanda, or Uganda?""

.... clearly, the guy was never reading Charlie over the years, they did this A LOT, A LOT,

including in the post-shooting issue with the Je Suis Charlie /Mohammed cover

as for Rue 89, did not see that reference,  

do you mean this?

www.rue89.org

 

 

NDPP

Joyce Carol Oates, Russell Banks and 143 Other Writers Protest Free Speech Award for Charlie Hebdo

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/05/02/hebd-m02.html

"The list of authors opposing the decision by PEN American center to bestow its Freedom of Expression Courage Award to the French satirical and anti-Muslim magazine Charlie Hebdo, whose offices in Paris were attacked by terrorists in January, has grown to 145...

The PEN decision to award Charlie Hebdo has to be seen in this political context, as part of the effort to legitimize anti-Muslim bigotry and build public support for the 'war on terror'.

The political situation is beginning to break up. Certain people are taking a stand, others, including individuals who postured as 'leftists' for decades, are being revealed for what they are, little more than mouthpieces for the establishment and the state apparatus. A political and moral polarization is taking place..."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
others, including individuals who postured as 'leftists' for decades, are being revealed for what they are, little more than mouthpieces for the establishment and the state apparatus.

Sweet!  A(nother) scolding for Charlie, for not making a special exception for Islam, AND a denunciation of the quislings!

NDPP

 

2 Men Who Fired At Guard Outside Mohammed Cartoon Contest Shot, Killed

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/2-men-who-fired-at-guard-outside-mohammed-ca...

"Two gunmen were killed Sunday in Texas after opening fire on a security officer outside a provocative contest for cartoon depictions of Prophet Muhammed.

The event featured speeches by American Freedom Defence Initiative president Pamela Geller and Geert Wilders, a Dutch lawmaker known for his outspoken criticism of Islam. Wilders received several standing ovations from the crowd."

Je suis Geller/Wilders?

6079_Smith_W

NDPP wrote:

Je suis Geller/Wilders?

I say they have every right to criticize religion and those who want to impose dogma with violence. What are you saying?

NDPP

I say they are hate-mongers.

As for "imposing dogma with violence", that ongoing Western project has already killed millions of Muslims already.

 

6079_Smith_W

But what you are posting is a piece about their event being attacked.

As for the "hatemonger" label, that is a bit more complex. Is Ayaan Hirsan Ali also one? After all, she collaborated with Theo Van Gogh, who was in the same movement as Wilders. Or does she get a pass?

And is murder, which is what happened in Van Gogh's case, the proper response?

I ask these questions because your "Je suis.." is nothing but a bait. Because some of us are in favour of free expression and separation of powers and against murder does that make us  haters?

 

swallow swallow's picture
Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

So, some folk believe that Meghan Murphy has denied or insulted their experience, would very much like to see her not work for Rabble any more, and have penned a polite (enough) demand to that effect.

Response:  Fuck that!  She has every right to her opinions and Rabble has every right to publish them, and we should not EVER allow legitimate opinions, even controversial ones, to be silenced through bullying or mob rule!

Then, a few French cartoonists draw pictures of a guy who died centuries ago, and folk who believe that denies or insults their experience go ahead and execute the doodlers, and (by the look of things) some more tried for a repeat in Texas.

Response:  They were HATE MONGERS.  THEY DREW A PICTURE OF MOHAMMED.

6079_Smith_W

Aside from the issue of whether one should draw pictures of mohammed, or whether death is a fair consequence, the U.S. organization involved has actually been identified as an anti-Islamist group, so the "hatemonger" label may be fair comment.

On the other hand, the local Imam was interviewed on CBC tonight, and he said they were just ignoring the event. None of his congregation went there or protested, and he didn't know the attackers.

I think this incident is an illustration of those who react with violence, and those who do not; trying to draw a parallel with the journalists at Charlie Hebdo, though? I don't buy it.

As for those who have tried to capitalize on it:

http://www.dw.de/leipzig-lifts-pegida-charlie-hebdo-caricature-ban/a-181...

 

6079_Smith_W
6079_Smith_W

This is thinking outside the box:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/muslim-activists-counter-pamela-geller-w...

Quote:

The campaign, which saw social media users posting drawings of the Muhammads in their lives, is a departure from the kind of defensive position in which many Muslim American leaders are often put as a result of violent incidents that often have little to do with their communities.

 

NDPP

How Charlie Became Le Pen

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/05/06/how-charlie-became-le-pen/

"The movement is, really, a global personality disorder of neoliberalism.

The 'Je suis Charlie' movement could tie together liberal and strictly conservative across both support for rights and hatred of Muslims, belief in political debate and abject fear of immigrants.

The handline of the Charlie Hebdo reaction has played directly into the hands of what Cas Mudde calls 'the populist radical right'."

6079_Smith_W

Interesting comment. I don't entirely agree because I think those who stepped down had every right to do so if they felt twitchy about it, and PEN did after all give the award. But it does raise the question of what the issue is here - defending expression, or defending expression you agree with.

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/05/neil_gaiman_stands_up_for_charlie_hebdo_...

Quote:

Spiegelman reported that his wife, Françoise Mouly, the French-born art editor of the New Yorker, regards the campaign against the award as a form of snobbery. “She said, ‘Now I get it: PEN is a union, a literary guild, and they want to keep the barbarians out.’” As Gaiman put it, “Cartoonists, and especially cartoonists outside of whatever world you grew up — we’re in the gutter. And that’s fine.”

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Art Spiegelman on why he stepped in for the PEN authors who boycotted:

Quote:

One point that was made over and over again was that this is an award for courage. And it’s hard to be more courageous than going back to work after your office has been bombed and your comrades have been slaughtered. On those grounds alone, one would think, “It’s a no brainer. They get the award.”

Beyond that, the magazine was getting a really bum rap. It’s actually anything but a racist magazine. One of the most touching things for me during the award ceremony last night was having the head of SOS Racisme, a French organization that combats racist activity, very movingly talk about Charlie Hebdo being a great force against racism in France.

They received the award for using their particular vocabulary and medium to stir debate on issues, not to create mischief, and they did it estimably, even when people didn’t agree with them. As one of the editors pointed out yesterday, the Charlie Hebdo editors don’t even agree with each other. The point of these cartoons is to start conversations about these issues. And these issues are not trivial. 

http://time.com/3849465/art-spiegelman-je-suis-charlie-but-im-not-pamela...

lagatta

It's particularly bizarre, as there actually are prominent French writers who are far-right and Islamophobic, such as Michel Houllebecq and Éric Zemmour. More than a whiff of that among the so-called "Nouveaux philosophes" as well.

6079_Smith_W

What could Houllebecq possibly have against CH? Surely you jest.

NDPP

French National Assembly Passes Draconian Electronic Surveillance Law

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/05/07/rens-m07.html

"...The French ruling class is seizing upon the attacks on the anti-Islam Charlie Hebdo magazine in January to push through far-reaching measures.

The immense expansion of the powers of the spying apparatus is part of a general militarization of French society. After the January terrorist attacks on Charlie Hebdo, the state has deployed 10,000 troops inside France itself..."

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

If Charlie Hebdo's editors and artists hadn't gone and got themselves executed, this wouldn't be happening.  THANKS, CHARLIE HEBDO!!!

 

NDPP

Pamela Geller, Charlie Hebdo: the Wages of Hate are Death

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2015/05/06/pamel-geller-charlie-hebdo-...

"In fact, a comparison between Geler and Hebo is apt.

If instead of Muhammad, Hebdo pictured the Jewish God Yahweh pissing on a sacred Torah scroll can you imagine liberals and free speech advocates like PEN rushing to defend them?"

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:
If instead of Muhammad, Hebdo pictured the Jewish God Yahweh pissing on a sacred Torah scroll can you imagine liberals and free speech advocates like PEN rushing to defend them?"

I'd say that the Hebdo cartoon showing the Christian God receiving anal sex from Jesus went considerably beyond the writer's hypothetical cartoon. NEXT...

voice of the damned

I was no expert on the Hebdo before the shootings, but I did at least make an effort to familiarize myself with their content during the ensuing debate around that crime. It is painfully apparent that many of their most vocal critics have NOT done so, and hence they continue with this "The Hebdo would never make fun of Christianity like that!!" non-starter.

voice of the damned

Seriously. If you want to argue that attacking Islam is worse than attacking Judaism or Christianity, fine. I might disagree with that, but I'll still accept it as an honest position. But don't insult my intelligence by telling me that I didn't see about a half dozen Charlie Hebdo cartoons lampooning the Judeo-Christian gods.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I think its the "true Scotsman" fallacy.

"Charlie's cartoons were all Islamophobic hate screeds!!!"

-- No, here's all sorts of other cartoons lampooning pretty much everyone.

"Charlie's REAL cartoons were all Islamophobic hate screeds!!!"

In other words, any cartoons that don't support the "hate speech" analysis may as well have been printed with invisible ink.

voice of the damned

Mr. Magoo wrote:

I think its the "true Scotsman" fallacy.

"Charlie's cartoons were all Islamophobic hate screeds!!!"

-- No, here's all sorts of other cartoons lampooning pretty much everyone.

"Charlie's REAL cartoons were all Islamophobic hate screeds!!!"

In other words, any cartoons that don't support the "hate speech" analysis may as well have been printed with invisible ink.


I don't know if it's about essentialism, so much as its about, umm, what would be a phrase for when you've seen something done so many times before, and so you assume that every instance of the thing is the same as what you're used to? NEXT...

voice of the damned

At the beginning, some progressives might have been thinking "Well, FOX News and the Daily Mail trash Islam, and I know they would never trash Christianity the same way, so Charlie Hebdo is probably the French version of that." It was perhaps an understandable reaction, at the time. NEXT...

voice of the damned

But, at this point in the controversy, the anti-Christian material in the Hebdo has had such wide exposure, there is really no excuse for anyone to continue arguing that the magazine never attacked Christianity. If they're not being deliberately dishonest, they're at least guilty of incredibly lazy research.

NDPP

"...Has a #JeSuisBDS hashtag started trending yet on Twitter? Under the new Charlie Hebdo standard - it's not enough to defend free speech; one must praise and even express the speech targeted with suppression - have all the newfound free speech crusaders begun organizing pro-Israel-boycott rallies in order to defy these suppression efforts?

In a zillion years, could anyone imagine the popularity craving officials who run PEN America bestowing one of their glamorous awards on advocates of the Israel-targeted Boycott/Divestment/Sanctions movement? The answer to all of these questions is and will remain 'no', because (as I discussed last week here with Bob Wright) the Charlie Hebdo ritual (for most not all) was about many agendas having nothing to do with the free expression banner under which it paraded.

In that regard, Stephen Harper is the perfect Poster Boy for how free expression is tribalistically manipulated and exploited in the West. Whe the views being expressed are ones amenable to those in power (eg cartoons mocking Islam), free speech is venerated; attempts to suppress those kinds of ideas show that 'they have declared war on any country, like ourselves, that values freedom, openness and tolerance.'

We get to celebrate ourselves as superior and progressive and victimized, and how good that feels. But when ideas are advocated that upset those in power (eg speech by Muslims critical of Western nations and their allies), the very same people acquiesce to, or expressly endorse, full scale suppression..."

Glenn Greenwald - The Intercept

http://interc.pt/1GYTVGn

lagatta

Unlike you, I know people who have been active in BDS and Palestine solidarity for years who turned out after the Charlie Hebdo staff were shot dead. Perhaps because they are francophones and actually have some knowledge about the publication and its history? And that whether or not they liked Charlie's humour, they knew it wasn't an emanation of the imperialist right wing?

What you say applies in spades to anglos who impose their blinders on everyone else. Va te faire ....

6079_Smith_W

PEN is a writer's organization. How is it in their mandate to do adovcacy for a non-journalism group, whether they sympathize or not? Should they have a best dentist award too?

And who is stopping anyone from starting that hashtag?

I very much appreciate Glenn Greenwald's writing on some issues, and his efforts in building alternative media. On this issue though, from his hauling out blatant racist material as a supposed comparison, and now this, he has shown himself to be a complete bonehead.

NDPP

Islamophobia and the Aegis of Freedom of Speech  - by Julian Vigo

http://counterpunch.org/2015/05/12/islamophobia-and-the-aegis-of-freedom...

"...Many of the ripostes against those who are critical of certain Charlie Hebdo cartoons is that we do not understand the history, the language, and/or the cultural context.

But it is clear from the polemic on this subject that people actually do get it - they just disagree with what appears to be everything from thinly veiled attempts to justify racism to a sloppy counter-critique of racism..."

lagatta

And I'm just as sick as your tireless efforts to elevate your anglophone francophobia to something akin to antiracism. The outcomes for racialized youth don't seem any better in the UK, according to that piece. And I'd say more are alienated from the mainstream society than in France. A hell of a lot of brown and black youth in France - and elsewhere - want nothing to do with fundie religious crap.

http://blogs.mediapart.fr/blog/olivier-tonneau/110115/charlie-hebdo-lett...

Je devrais m'exprimer uniquement en français quand je fais face à ce genre de francophobie "angryphone".

Anglo racist shit. Crude, but crude language seems to be all you understand.

 

NDPP

TRNN: Max Blumenthal on 'Je Ne Suis Pas Charlie' (and vid)

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&I...

"Max Blumenthal talks to Paul Jay about his new film."

 

TRNN: Je Ne Suis Pas Charlie (doco)

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&I...

A film by James Kleinfeld and Max Blumenthal

'There was a pre-Charlie situation and a post-Charlie one. Before Charlie there was discrimination and Islamophobia. But after Charlie...we are [also] conflated with extremists.'

'Je suis Charlie is an incredibly exclusive slogan. No Muslim who believes in god can claim they are Charlie. So it is a slogan which under the cover of expressing indignation against these (monstrous) attacks, calls upon everyone to support those who attackd not only the figure of the prophet, but the figure of the Muslim.'

'For many minorities in France, to say 'Je suis Charlie' is to submit themselves to a 'societal consensus' whcih goes against everything that they are..."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
'For many minorities in France, to say 'Je suis Charlie' is to submit themselves to a 'societal consensus' whcih goes against everything that they are..."

So we're back to the idea that you have to love and approve of everything Charlie ever did if you want to also approve of them not being murdered for it.

Evidently "Je Suis Charlie" is French for "I approve of every cartoon that Charlie has ever published!"

6079_Smith_W

NDPP wrote:

'Je suis Charlie is an incredibly exclusive slogan. No Muslim who believes in god can claim they are Charlie. So it is a slogan which under the cover of expressing indignation against these (monstrous) attacks, calls upon everyone to support those who attackd not only the figure of the prophet, but the figure of the Muslim.'

Nonsense. You could make that same bullshit argument about any criticism of religion.

Actually all "Je suis Charlie" means is that you support freedom of expression, and that an attack on one is an attack on all -  again, even if you don't necessarily agree with what is being said.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

The whole Charlie thing is like a bike thief being killed.

"Well, I can't agree with bike theft..."

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