Finally, Senator McCarthy, have you no shame?

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ikosmos ikosmos's picture
Finally, Senator McCarthy, have you no shame?

Quote:
"Both of these clowns have used the death of a diplomat, who was serving his country, as an excuse to promote their own prejudices against Russia. Their behavior is disgraceful, and they are debasing journalism. I’d conclude by saying they should be ashamed of themselves, but that won't work because they clearly have no shame."

American journalists who 'danced' on Russian Ambassador’s grave have no shame

History repeats itself.

josh

What the hell does that have to do with McCarthyism?

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

josh wrote:
What the hell does that have to do with McCarthyism?

Shamelessness. See also, "ignoring the obvious".

lagatta4

There are lots of things that are shameless, and in this case, utterly dehumanizing of someone who was killed in cold blood, that aren't McCarthyism. Nobody was blacklisted, and it would be superfluous to accuse an ambassador of ANY country of spying for his or her country. If those unethical and heartless US reporters were sacked, I certainly wouldn't cry.

By the way, unless it is too awkward, I try to avoid using "American" in the sense of "US" Everyone from the Inuit to the Mapuche lives in America.

josh

ikosmos wrote:

josh wrote:
What the hell does that have to do with McCarthyism?

Shamelessness. See also, "ignoring the obvious".

It's an insult to the victims of McCarthyism to compare this to them.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Putin can go suck on a turd. He and his puppet Trump can go to hell.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Did McCarthy oppose Communism anywhere else in the world, or only in the Soviet Union?

Rev Pesky

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Did McCarthy oppose Communism anywhere else in the world, or only in the Soviet Union?

Mccarthy despised communism generally, but the force of his actions were completely focussed on people in the USA. He first came to prominence by accusing members of the State Department of being communist party members and associating with communist spies.

Ultimately his accusations would be his downfall. He just went a bit too far. When he was exposed to the general public through the broadcast of the Army-Mccarthy Hearings, his popularity declined, and ultimately he became such a liability to the Republicans he was censured in the Senate. From that point on he was a spent force.

In the meantime, of course, he had ruined many lives. For a good look at the tenor of the times, read Lillian Hellman's "Scoundrel Time". She didn't have to face McCarthy, but she was called to testify before the House Committee on Un-American Activities, In common with the McCarthy committee, HUAC was aimed at supposed communists in the USA, and like McCarthy ruined many lives, and destroyed many careers.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Interesting that the recent guest on Chris Hedges' show on RT said that, based on knowledge of the history, McCarthyism should be called Hooverism (after J Edgar Hoover) as the practices preceded McCarthy by some decades, eg, the HCUA, etc.

6079_Smith_W
kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

This is a great movie. I think I saw it on Netflix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0dZ_2ICpJE

As for this thread it is merely one in an endless list of inaccurately titled threads. I think a better focus might have been US journalists act like assholes because they believe Russia is evil and the US is exceptional. Like some of our posters who have to insult anyone posting about Russia that doesn't share the view of those journalists. 

Watching the perpetual gang-up on Ikosomos is not all that interesting or informative except maybe as an exercise in group dynamics to show how nasty a group can get towards someone who disagrees with them.  I am extremely glad some posters on this fucking site can only use insults because if this was like a Milgram experiment he would be electrocuted by now.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Watching the perpetual gang-up on Ikosomos is not all that interesting or informative except maybe as an exercise in group dynamics to show how nasty a group can get towards someone who disagrees with them.

Well, and continually insults them.

And insinuates that they're brainwashed stooges of Sauron.

Oh, and says "hoo rah" and "because freedom" over and over again.

Quote:
if this was like a Milgram experiment he would be electrocuted by now.

And calling us all quislings right up until his last heartbeat.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Gee Magoo was it the chicken or the fucking egg?  I personally have never been able to figure out which was first. NDPP has taken the same rough ride but he doesn't give it back in the same vein that he has had it dished to him for years. Ikosmos seems to not share NDPP's demeanor.

swallow

Personally I have no interest in ganging up on anyone, but when someone posts continuel factual inaccuracies (often proved false by simply reading their links) and a constant stream of propaganda for a right-wing regime,  and continually insults members of this community, they should be called on it. 

This would also be true if there were tireless propagandists for US government policy making constant threads about "anti-Americanism" and the brilliance of Obama. But honestly, there aren't, despite the efforts of 2 posters to call everyone who disagress with them (including anarchists) pro-Obama stooges. There used to be a regular stream of posts in support of the Israeli govenrment that attacked leftist critics of Israeli policy as antisemites, but that brand of propagandist seems to be gone. 

swallow

PS "Hooverism" would indeed be more accurate, and get rid of the implied link to the Cold War. I'd suggest tracing it back to Woodrow Wilson, personally. 

Edzell Edzell's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:
I am extremely glad some posters on this fucking site can only use insults.....
This is a fucking site ????? Tell me more.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:
This is a great movie. I think I saw it on Netflix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0dZ_2ICpJE

Yeah, good reminder. Studying the old blacklisting practices may be very useful for understanding any future ones.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Edzell wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I am extremely glad some posters on this fucking site can only use insults.....

This is a fucking site ????? Tell me more.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

swallow wrote:

Personally I have no interest in ganging up on anyone, but when someone posts continuel factual inaccuracies (often proved false by simply reading their links) and a constant stream of propaganda for a right-wing regime,  and continually insults members of this community, they should be called on it. 

If that is the way you and others feel why do you give North Report a free pass? He posts multiple posts that contain all kinds of inaccuracies pumped out by the oil industry and he continually posts in favour of the right wing government I live under in BC and regularly insults all leftists openly.

It often seems like we have a double standard, I guess its because we are continually told that Putin is a corrupt and evil dictator and Clark is a democratic leader. So of course we allow the Business News to pass as merely factual even when they embed pro-pipeline lies in their articles. Not a single one of the outraged progressives that hate hearing about the latest NATO war crimes seem to give a sweet flying fuck about the climate deniers posting in their midst. 

Personally I think that the executives in pipeline and oil industry are the really evil actors on our planet not any politician, including Putin.

NDPP

kropotkin1951 wrote:

how nasty a group can get towards someone who disagrees with them.

Yes ,and it's been like that as far back as I can remember.   The difference is that there used to be more than only one or two defending against the  majority stupidos in favour of bombing Libya, installing Nazis in Ukraine or backing imperialist mass murder by proxy and regime change in Syria. Now, that mindset pretty much runs things here on this 'progressive' site.  The resistors were eventually run off for thought crimes or left in disgust. Read the old threads it's all there recorded for posterity.

6079_Smith_W

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Personally I think that the executives in pipeline and oil industry are the really evil actors on our planet not any politician, including Putin.

Of course the open secret is that both are on the same team.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/19/investing/russian-stocks-donald-trump-vl...

https://www.democracynow.org/2016/12/12/could_massive_russian_oil_deal_with

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

CNN there you go 6079. Stop posting from fake news sites its disgusting. Are you being paid to spread propaganda for the CIA or is it CISIS or are you getting your orders from the White House directly? 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
The resistors were eventually run off for thought crimes or left in disgust.

It's such a shame that these resistors were unable to keep a civil tongue in their heads.

In over a decade, I've never seen anyone banned for being TOO revolutionary, or TOO progressive.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

I can just see you, Magoo, with an Alfred E Newman smile saying "What, Me Worry?" in front of a massive nuclear mushroom cloud.

I don't know how you do it.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
The resistors were eventually run off for thought crimes or left in disgust.

It's such a shame that these resistors were unable to keep a civil tongue in their heads.

In over a decade, I've never seen anyone banned for being TOO revolutionary, or TOO progressive.

Another one whose posting style is heavily weighted to willful miscomprehension.

Banned does not equal left in disgust or run off.

But yeah we got your message that you have no respect for Ikosmos opinions so you scurry sideways and attack a different point. Over and over and over have we got that  message. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Another one whose posting style is heavily weighted to willful miscomprehension.

Another one who thinks anyone who doesn't comprehend as he does is miscomprehending.

Quote:
Over and over and over have we got that  message.

The day you actually get the message is the day I can finally stop delivering it.  Not my fault that folk still think Russia is the oppressed victim of something and won't let go of that.

I would bet that there are nearly as many "Russia" threads as "Canada" threads on this, a Canadian message board.  Some days I feel like the least Putin could do is toss rabble.ca a few rubles to offset the bandwidth costs.

josh

ikosmos wrote:

I can just see you, Magoo, with an Alfred E Newman smile saying "What, Me Worry?" in front of a massive nuclear mushroom cloud.

I don't know how you do it.


Well, Putin's man Trump apparently wants to increase the number of nukes and start testing again. Might not be a problem except for the fact that he's a public policy ignoramous and a megalomaniac to boot. So maybe your worrying is justified.

josh

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Another one whose posting style is heavily weighted to willful miscomprehension.

Another one who thinks anyone who doesn't comprehend as he does is miscomprehending.

Quote:
Over and over and over have we got that  message.

The day you actually get the message is the day I can finally stop delivering it.  Not my fault that folk still think Russia is the oppressed victim of something and won't let go of that.

I would bet that there are nearly as many "Russia" threads as "Canada" threads on this, a Canadian message board.  Some days I feel like the least Putin could do is toss rabble.ca a few rubles to offset the bandwidth costs.

Some days I've wondered whether babble has simply become a satellite of RT.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Some days I've wondered whether babble has simply become a satellite of RT.

To be fair, even RT doesn't blame the brainwashed and pathologically complacent Canadian left for it all.

swallow

kropotkin1951 wrote:

swallow wrote:

Personally I have no interest in ganging up on anyone, but when someone posts continual factual inaccuracies (often proved false by simply reading their links) and a constant stream of propaganda for a right-wing regime,  and continually insults members of this community, they should be called on it. 

If that is the way you and others feel why do you give North Report a free pass? He posts multiple posts that contain all kinds of inaccuracies pumped out by the oil industry and he continually posts in favour of the right wing government I live under in BC and regularly insults all leftists openly.

It often seems like we have a double standard, I guess its because we are continually told that Putin is a corrupt and evil dictator and Clark is a democratic leader. So of course we allow the Business News to pass as merely factual even when they embed pro-pipeline lies in their articles. Not a single one of the outraged progressives that hate hearing about the latest NATO war crimes seem to give a sweet flying fuck about the climate deniers posting in their midst. 

Personally I think that the executives in pipeline and oil industry are the really evil actors on our planet not any politician, including Putin.

Yeah, that's probably true. It's definitely the main problem with the nominee for Sec of State in the US - I like that he wants better relations with Russia, but he's a tool of the oilk industry and therefore trying to wreck the planet. 

I don't call out North Report much because I don't know much about those topics, and he appears to be a cartoon character rather than someone to be taken seriously. I believe I've posted occasionally against pipeline mania, though not as much obviously. My main interests are Indigenous and international affairs. Also, you seem to call him out pretty effectively. I'm about to be away for a while, but on return I can try to read his links if you like and comment on them more, if someone in Quebec commenting on BC politics seems appropriate to you. 

Has he denied climate change? I thought he was in the Trudeau-Notley camp - admit climate change is real, talk breathlessly and incessantly about it, and do very little. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

swallow wrote:

Has he denied climate change? I thought he was in the Trudeau-Notley camp - admit climate change is real, talk breathlessly and incessantly about it, and do very little. 

He supports fracking for LNG exports, building Site C and building every pipeline on the drawing board. That is denial of the reality of climate change in the highest order. 

These are not merely BC issues because they are being rammed through on the basis of "national interest." I thought that the NEP was a great program from the national interest perspective. Albertan's said let the Eastern Bastards freeze in the dark. Now they say no latte sipping Lotus lander is going to stop the pipeline because it is in the "national interest."  

swallow

Fair enough.

Unionist

God you people are nasty to each other. This is a sign of the times, I think.

 

Misfit

I guess I'm a sicko. I kinda like this...

Misfit

I think the mods should move this thread to the Rabble mud wrestling forum.

lagatta4

I've often posted against pipelines, but obviously more in Québec and points east simply because I've been involved in the struggle here and know something about it - I read National Observer (to the extent it makes its articles available) etc but am not really knowledgeable enough about the struggles on the West Coast.

I think we have to focus on periodisation. Yes, there was a great Red Scare (in the US, but part of a generally reactionary post WW1 and anti-Bolshie trend, which also killed the Spartakists and many others - including la Semana tragica in Argentina, a massacre which targeted anarchists and soicialists and also incorporated an antisemitic pogrom, and which was the same month as the murders of Luxemburg, Liebknecht and others in Germany - and earlier corporate and government repression against radicals going back at least to Haymarket and to Pinkerton's massacres of workers in the US west - but I think it is important to pinpoint McCarthyism as a post WW2 Cold War phenomenon. As for Hoover, he started earlier and finished later, and seemed to be a master of blackmail even against the political establishment. But I'm far from an expert on US political history - I know more about labour history, and the history of migrations.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Misfit wrote:
I think the mods should move this thread to the Rabble mud wrestling forum.
 

Cool

swallow

Unionist wrote:

God you people are nasty to each other. This is a sign of the times, I think.

Which people do you mean? 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

swallow wrote:

Unionist wrote:

God you people are nasty to each other. This is a sign of the times, I think.

Which people do you mean? 

I doubt if he meant you. Thank you for that comment Unionist. It was my aim to give back in the same vein that some people on here have been dishing out for a long time. I thought that there used to be a policy that said one couldn't accuse other posters of paid trolling. I know I was cautioned in the past when claiming that someone might actually work for a Western security agency.

I think the heart of the problem for me is reading over and over and fucking over again that people who post pro-Russia pieces are paid and not merely posters entitled to their own opinions

I mean give your heads a shake. Ikosmos has a penchant for pissing people off when he is supposedly trying to propagandize for the Russians.  All I have to say is that seems to be so counterproductive as to prove he cannot be a paid troll.

So let's talk about the issues and stop with the troll calling. 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

What's really amusing about the claims of paid trolling is that the US regime has recently passed legislation, along with a $20 million slush fund, to do just that. And I've been such a jerk by encouraging some babblers to apply for the cash.

If I had a dollar for every time ...

6079_Smith_W

Except it doesn't do that. But let's not bother letting reality get in the way of a good lie.

 

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Excuse me? Who's lying now, rocket scientist Smith?

Quote:
This act authorizes the Department of State to spend $20 million through September 30, 2018 to “support the Center and provide grants or contracts of financial support to civil society groups, journalists, nongovernmental organizations, federally funded research and development centers, private companies, or academic institutions.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/10/senate-passes-law-authorizing-feds-to-spend-up-to-20-million-supporting-independent-journalists/#ixzz4UNrAE2QE

Get some! Get some!

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:
Except it doesn't do that. But let's not bother letting reality get in the way of a good lie.

Ya caught me, copper! I guess it's Room 101 for me now, huh?

6079_Smith_W

I suppose the good news is you read enough of it that you realize they aren't going to be censoring and banning , like some here believe.

Thing is, setting up a media outlet is not the same as a troll factorywith underpaid computer jockeys managing scores of fake profiles. So sorry. No cigar.

 

josh

ikosmos wrote:

What's really amusing about the claims of paid trolling is that the US regime has recently passed legislation, along with a $20 million slush fund, to do just that. And I've been such a jerk by encouraging some babblers to apply for the cash.

If I had a dollar for every time ...

You mean if you had a ruble?

ygtbk

josh wrote:
ikosmos wrote:

What's really amusing about the claims of paid trolling is that the US regime has recently passed legislation, along with a $20 million slush fund, to do just that. And I've been such a jerk by encouraging some babblers to apply for the cash.

If I had a dollar for every time ...

You mean if you had a ruble?

Kopek.

(* mic drop *)