Jon Stewart and the US media

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remind remind's picture

Swore off Jon Stewart a short while back, when he started to show himself just another 'whisperer'  for the elite and corporate overlords.

thorin_bane

I like the humour, but yeah kinda bullshit talking about leftwing extremeists in the US when I don't think any of them have a TV show let alone a TV station(or several) Their political ideas are more like-"lets war with only 57 nations." "Look at this pinko commie lets war with 59 or 60." as far as mainstream TV goes. When he put down Chavez and never put it into context I knew he had to follow some kind of pecking order regarless of what his personal views are. At least he shows some of the suffering for the palestinians which is a lot more than most. But yeah still bullshittig their way holding up the capitalist banner.

Like I said, I give them some credit. I think the rally for sanity is to try to get some softer republicans voters to not hate democrats as much(for what its worth) much as how we should concentrate on either getting cons to not vote or to convince them harper is wrong for the job , elect someone else. The problem is the right have learned how to frame it as an US vs THEM scenario. Everytime we attack them and prove they're wrong it only adds to them digging in their heels. There is no way the cons shoudl be sitting above 15% right now. But the framing it as my team no matter what the ref and video replay says is leading us down this path.

Gotta convince these people we aren't the enemy, and you don't do that by telling them how stupid they are for voting that way. Its like rooting for the leafs. Even if they haven't won in 40 odd years their supporters(all sports teams really) will see every call different than the ref. Every lose is someone elses fault, every win is just one step away form the Cup finals. Even if they lose all the time they will be defended because its "my team, I chose them".

And that is where we are at these days. Problem is one team is cheating a lot more than the other 4. Especially when the refs are the people who use to play for their team.

al-Qa'bong

Quote:

Many centrists are uncomfortable with Stewart's rally for a different reason. They may find his jokes amusing, but they reject his more serious message - that the U.S. political/media process has gone quite literally mad. If you're a Washington-Post-or-CNN-styled journalist, you simply can't accept that the system you have helped sustain is insane.

To do so - and to be honestly self-critical - would require acknowledging that you sat on your hands in the face of George W. Bush's violent delusions of the past decade because to do otherwise would have put your salary at risk. For these centrists to accept the need to restore sanity would require them to admit they tolerated madness.

 

 

Will the United States begin acting like a responsible force in the world or will it continue to wander off into its own ghastly dreamscape?

wage zombie

John Stewart on Crossfire

This is what Stewart does well, Crossfire was cancelled shortly after.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:
In his original call to action, Stewart lumped together the Tea Party Movement with 9-11 Truthers and anti-war groups like Code Pink. Later Stewart dubbed Belgian protesters demonstrating against state austerity measures "lunatics" on par with Tea Party activists who screech from the screen, "The only good communist is a dead communist."

But by equating high-pitched tone with extremist politics, he plunks an unreasonable correlation at the center of his plea for reason. This logic touts the tone and tactics of the messenger in order to discount the message. Apparently, if you sport a suit and advocate unequivocally unreasonable practices like waterboarding, but do so in a friendly, down-home way using "your indoor voice," you may well escape Stewart's incisive wit. However, should you dip your hands in fake blood and attend a congressional hearing in order to make the completely reasonable argument that foreign wars are wasting precious lives and squandering scarce funds, you can expect to have the comedian slot you in the nutjob category.

[url=http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/10/30-3]Jon Stewart's Civility Fetishism[/url]

Stargazer

That really bothered me too thorin, when Stewart pretty much equated Marxists with the luny right. Thanks for the shot at socialism dude! And there is no way this will win over any moderates. You can talk to these crazy right wingers until you are blue in the face - it isn't going to change a thing. A speech by a comedian most of them despise is certainly NOT going to get them to stop their politicking on behalf of Big Business. Stewart should have used his speech to get as many people to vote as possible and stop trying to play to the middle.

 

I disagree that the left must move to the middle to get the right to listen. It has NEVER worked. Ever. The left is losing because they already make far too many concessions for the right and the right is not willing to make any for the left and they never will. What needs to happen is we need people like Stewart to come out swinging. Show exactly WHY these people are crazy and what the world they advocate for really means to the every day person. Enough of this bullshit of trying to appease these people. They don't care. They aren't going to start caring until their worlds as they frame it are seen as wreaking havoc in their lives. Until them they are effectively dead to the left. Face it, learn how to mobilize the left.

 

Another thing that has to be faced - there is effectively NO mainstream outlet for the anger of the left. They have nothing to get their voices out with the exception of a comedy show. I don't think we are going to see a rise in left wing media in my lifetime. This is a real issue and I don't have the answers for it. But I can say without a doubt there is no use in appealing to right. None. I say no more concessions, no more selling out, no more giving in. We have lost far far too much as it is. No more caving to the crazies. let the chips fall where they may and then attack once these idiots live in a world they will (and you know they will) eventually utterly despise.

Stargazer

Thank M.Spector. I am glad someone else agrees with me. Jon Stewart could have done a lot more. In the end - he failed the left - badly.

al-Qa'bong

Quote:

The phantom left took a central role on the mall this weekend in Washington. It had performed admirably for Glenn Beck, who used it in his own rally as a lightning rod to instill anger and fear. And the phantom left proved equally useful for the comics Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, who spoke to the crowd wearing red-white-and-blue costumes. The two comics evoked the phantom left, as the liberal class always does, in defense of moderation, which might better be described as apathy. If the right wing is crazy and if the left wing is crazy, the argument goes, then we moderates will be reasonable. We will be nice. Exxon and Goldman Sachs, along with predatory banks and the arms industry, may be ripping the guts out of the country, our rights—including habeas corpus—may have been revoked, but don’t get mad. Don’t be shrill. Don’t be like the crazies on the left.

The Phantom Left

by Chris Hedges

 

Don't be duped into thinking Stewart is on our side; he's a liberal, after all.

 

Quote:

The Rally to Restore Sanity, held in Washington’s National Mall, was yet another sad footnote to the death of the liberal class. It was as innocuous as a Boy Scout jamboree. It ridiculed followers of the tea party without acknowledging that the pain and suffering expressed by many who support the movement are not only real but legitimate. It made fun of the buffoons who are rising up out of moral swamps to take over the Republican Party without accepting that their supporters were sold out by a liberal class, and especially a Democratic Party, which turned its back on the working class for corporate money.

thorin_bane

I think we all agree. Stargazer, I am not advocating any appeasement, far from it. But calling them morons and assholes(as much as that relieves some stress) does little in the way of getting these pig headed, shit for brains conservatives to stop voting that way Laughing.

We all know we have literally no voice in the MSM, if Ian Capstick on P&P and the bi weekly mcquaig articles is all that represents the 18% voting public in canada its pretty sad. When given the opportunity, I can get all but the most ardent conservatives to agree with my positions. Liberals will support their party but will agree with NDP policy, such is the divide between rank and file and the group holding up progress called their shadow cabinet.

Colbert does a lot of pro war stuff, but I find him braver if sometimes less funny than stewart on tackling issues. Though even there it is timid at best. My parents even called me today to say they are angry at me for getting them to watch P&P because Evan is such a jerk and he makes them upset. On the bright side my mom is going down to drop off a check to the NDP because my parents can sit idly by anymore.-I am so proud of them *blush*

I think we actually out fund raised the libs in the last quarter.  Its funny because we don't belong to the NDP or any political party(there are always other options, just not electable ones) but I have been voting for them since I was a teenager and my parents turned the corner against the libs...my mom around 2004(she didn't like martin) but my dad around 2000, perhaps '97. My parents rememebr some of the good things Trudeau did-as told by our media. So when its revieled that a lot of it was NDP policy that they liked it was just convincing them to vote their conscience not who might win or how their parents told them to vote years and years ago.

Aristotleded24

Stargazer wrote:
Another thing that has to be faced - there is effectively NO mainstream outlet for the anger of the left.

[url=http://www.therealnews.com]The Real News is one outlet, we need more outlets like it to reach a wider audience[/url]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

William Blum wrote:
Stewart in fact appears to dislike the left, perhaps strongly. In the lead-up to the rally he criticized the left for various things, including calling George W. Bush a "war criminal". Wow! How immoderate of us. Do I have to list here the 500 war crimes committed by George W. Bush? If I did so, would that make me one of what Stewart calls the "crazies"? In his talk at the rally, Stewart spoke of our "real fears" - "of terrorists, racists, Stalinists, and theocrats". Stalinists? Where did that come from, Glenn Beck? What decade is Stewart living in? What about capitalists or the corporations? Is there no reason to fear them? Is it Stalinists who are responsible for the collapse of our jobs and homes, our economy?

Stewart also grouped together "Marxists actively subverting our constitution, racists and homophobes". Welcome to the Jon Stewart Tea Party. In his long interview last week of President Obama on his TV show, Stewart did not mention any of America's wars. That would have been impolite and divisive; maybe even not nice.

[url=http://www.counterpunch.org/blum11032010.html]Source[/url]

thorin_bane

Thanks for the links guys...Sent it around to those I could.

cadams

Here's a Quote from the link:

 

He billed his rally as being "for people who are politically dissatisfied but who are not ideological". (Democracy Now, November 1, 2010) Really, Jon? You have no ideology? To those who like to tell themselves and others that they don't have any particular ideology I say this: If you have thoughts about why the world is the way it is, why society is the way it is, why people are the way they are, what a better way would look like, and if your thoughts are fairly well organized, then that's your ideology, even if it's not wholly conscious as such.

 

Well i saw the whole 3 hour rally and there was a lot of Show-Bobazoo. First 1h introduction by the roots and mythbusters. Then Colbert-like impro theatre and giving out Awards.A huge Colbert-Puppet. And finally Jon's speech. Which essentially came down to the metaphor of people organizing traffic in the holland(?) tunnel. So "working together" might be the ideology.

 

Here's the link(the speech should be somewhere in the 3rd hour):

http://c-span.org/Watch/Media/2010/10/30/HP/A/40153/StewartColbert+Rally...

Aristotleded24

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqjh6JyxOlk]If you're going to have a rally..., you might as well make it about something[/url]

Stargazer

He was speaking with Rachel Maddow a few days ago, and it wasn't very pretty. Jon Stewart clearly showed he was a centrist. All his talk about doing something is great, but what does he actually do?

 

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/11/12/5452792-which-way-to-th...

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/11/jon-stewart-stands-by-c...

 

Not a big fan anymore. Anyone who equates the right with the left is delusional. There is no real left in America.

Aristotleded24

The other thing that needs to be pointed out is that while Stewart and Colbert laugh at the antics of the right and whine about how crazy things are, it's the right wing that is accomplishing stuff. What have Stewart and Colbert ever done?

thorin_bane

Good point. Even in their lopsided political spectrum. Their 'moderate left' is somewhere close to harper. While their right, nevermind the tea party is like ...a stockwell day-jason kenny-maxime bernier hybrid of racism combined with creationist pro military libertarianism.

Colbert took the high road and didn't mention it it. Stewart had a "what did I do" 5 minute part and couldn't understand how equating maddow and obberman with the likes of tucker carlson, beck, and ann coulter are even close or the same thing.

 Even their extreme left is hardly left at all. But he says they all lie. From what I have seen the right makes outright lies like he shows on his program, but he can't find anything but general outrage about the right coming form the left. But somehow that is the same thing in his world. I guess he forgets where he came from.

Just like asshole dennis miller. I would love to have a conversation with this overstuffed purple prose narcissist.

al-Qa'bong

I'm watching Middle East expert Bill Maher commenting on the Tunisian situation.  He just said there are better ways to foment revolt in the Arab world than invading their countries.  I guess he doesn't realise that most Arab dictatorships, including the late-Tunisian junta, are US clients.

Good grief; now he's talking about how the Tunisians wear jeans and leather jackets, while most Arab men wear dresses.

al-Qa'bong

Bill Maher interviewed Egyptian journalist Mona Eltahawy on the most recent program, and along with the Republican yahoos on the show, couldn't take his head out of his anti-Muslim rectum, and spewed ignorance while calling it "reality."

Ms. Eltahawy, when she was allowed to speak by this blowhard, handed him his bigotted ass on a platter.

howeird beale

anti- Muslim or anti religious?

His own background is Catholic/ Jewish. He certainly doesnt spare either Christians or Jews in his film Religulous. You provide no links or quotes so I'll have to check it out and get back to you.

It doesnt make a person a bigot to be an atheist.

 

al-Qa'bong

Check out what he says about Arabs, who can be Jews, Christians, Muslims, atheists, Baha'is, Zoroastrians, etc.  He doesn't make such distinctions, but lumps them in with "Muslims."

Sorry, he reserves special treatment for the turbanned horde.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Yes, and his comments have very little to do with Islam and everything to do with Arab (indistinguishible from Persian, Pashtun, Berber, etc) cultural codes he and the West considers strange/scary/different/inscrutable. cf. "most Arab men wear dresses," etc.

Jingles

Quote:
 He certainly doesnt spare either Christians or Jews in his film Religulous.

Like hell. The only time he became visibly angry was with the Rabbi from the anti-Israel sect. He actually walked out of his own interview. However, the fanatical Jewish settlers from New York who think that Palestine belongs to them didn't rate a mention.

howeird beale

uhhh... what?

ummm.... thanks? Foot in mouth

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Jingles wrote:

I've pretty much given up on Jon Stewart. He is just another typical Democrat.

Tonight he told Bill Kristol he would have voted for John McCain in 2000 if he had won the Republican nomination.

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Jon Stewart spent the weekend in Kandahar, sucking up to the military, and so naturally his show tonight (Monday) was nothing more than crass war propaganda.

knownothing knownothing's picture
M. Spector M. Spector's picture

knownothing wrote:

">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/02/lawrence-odonnell-socialist-mah...

Maher and O'Donnell don't have clue 1 what socialism is.

knownothing knownothing's picture

M. Spector wrote:

knownothing wrote:

">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/02/lawrence-odonnell-socialist-mah...

Maher and O'Donnell don't have clue 1 what socialism is.

I didn't know you could and be on MSM in the US, bu at least they are using the word

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

They are giving socialism a bad name. Socialism is not about government subsidies to agribusiness to manipulate market prices. Nor is it about the perks that the system gives to the rich.

Socialism and capitalism are not like salt and pepper shakers that you can sprinkle on a society in varying degrees and come up with just the perfect flavour. They are irreconcilably opposed systems of society, economy, and government.

knownothing knownothing's picture

M. Spector wrote:

They are giving socialism a bad name. Socialism is not about government subsidies to agribusiness to manipulate market prices. Nor is it about the perks that the system gives to the rich.

Socialism and capitalism are not like salt and pepper shakers that you can sprinkle on a society in varying degrees and come up with just the perfect flavour. They are irreconcilably opposed systems of society, economy, and government.

What do you expect him to do read "Das Kapital" on the air?

knownothing knownothing's picture

What about this guy's arguments?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt7urGdlr_Y

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Why don't you go post your libertarian shit somewhere else?

6079_Smith_W

Well seeing as neither system exists in a pure form anywhere, I think the salt and pepper shaker analogy is pretty accurate. I d say it describes the reality on the ground and how the two systems are blended in most places - certainly  better than the "battle of the teen titans" mythology. 

Speaking of which, I heard things didn't go so well on the Hang Seng today. Bummer.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture
6079_Smith_W

Neat!

On the other hand, do you think a tea partier would call it capitalism?

How about this?

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Asia/Story/A1Story20100304-20239...

 

 

knownothing knownothing's picture

M. Spector wrote:

Why don't you go post your libertarian shit somewhere else?

You are an angry one aren't you? I just wondered what you thought of his definitions of socialism! No need to be so exclusive. So you think the welfare state is not socialist, what is is then? Like Smith said I don't think the Tea Party would agree with you. Why don't we just campaign to get rid of it then, EI while we are it?

howeird beale

M. Spector wrote:

Why don't you go post your libertarian shit somewhere else?

Here. here.

Did a little scan of this guys posts. A lot of out of (or barely in) context posts linking to right wing crap.

Hey, everybody, remember when "Racialist" was on this board? I looked up "Racialist" as a term and it was used by people like David Duke

I mention that only in passing.

 

Does anybody know what the Know Nothing movement was in US History? Well here you go:

 

The Know Nothing movement was a nativist American political movement of the 1840s and 1850s. It was empowered by popular fears that the country was being overwhelmed by German and Irish Catholic immigrants, who were often regarded as hostile to Anglo-Saxon Protestant values and controlled by the Pope in Rome. Mainly active from 1854 to 1856, it strove to curb immigration and naturalization, though its efforts met with little success. Membership was limited to Protestant males of British lineage over the age of 21. There were few prominent leaders, and the largely middle-class and entirely Protestant membership fragmented over the issue of slavery.

The movement originated in New York in 1843 as the American Republican Party. It spread to other states as the Native American Party and became a national party in 1845. In 1855 it renamed itself the American Party.[1] The origin of the "Know Nothing" term was in the semi-secret organization of the party. When a member was asked about its activities, he was supposed to reply, "I know nothing."[2]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing

 

So, is that where your name comes from knownothing ?

6079_Smith_W

Hey.... we flushed out another one. Go fetch a rope Clem. I'll get my horse and gun and meet you by the tree.

 

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Strange how none of these right wing assholes thinks that hedge fund managers and bankers making all the decisions about the economy is a type of central planning. The IMF has been imposing its ideology on country after country in the world but that isn't central planning it is just the market being freed from the fetters of democracy.

knownothing knownothing's picture

I can't stand these libertarians onthe right. They just provide the most exciting anti-socialist aruments out there right now and I actually like to challenge my beliefs, which I assure you are collectivist at heart, because I recognize all the dangers inherent in socialism.

As for my name, it is simply an acknowledgement that it is impossible to know anything and I try to keep that in mind, if I get too self-righteous.

I am hoping for Ron Paul in the US because I like his anti-war and some of his socially liberal stances. Also, part of me wants to see what would happen if they cut all their social programs and deregulated. That would finally put a nail in the capitalist US.

I like rabble and I am an active NDP member, but I am also intersted in the Bakunin, Chomsky, anti-state side of socialism and that draws me to Ron Paul and the other libertarians a bit al though I completely disagree with most of their fiscal positions.

Why are you all being so mean?  

6079_Smith_W

@ knownothing

Force of habit among some, I would guess. I know it's not much consolation when it is directed at you, but try to not take it personally, and to see it for what it is.

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

knownothing wrote:

I can't stand these libertarians onthe right. They just provide the most exciting anti-socialist aruments out there right now and I actually like to challenge my beliefs, which I assure you are collectivist at heart, because I recognize all the dangers inherent in socialism.

As for my name, it is simply an acknowledgement that it is impossible to know anything and I try to keep that in mind, if I get too self-righteous.

I am hoping for Ron Paul in the US because I like his anti-war and some of his socially liberal stances. Also, part of me wants to see what would happen if they cut all their social programs and deregulated. That would finally put a nail in the capitalist US.

I like rabble and I am an active NDP member, but I am also intersted in the Bakunin, Chomsky, anti-state side of socialism and that draws me to Ron Paul and the other libertarians a bit al though I completely disagree with most of their fiscal positions.

Why are you all being so mean?

You are a very confused individual if you think that Noam Chomsky and Ron Paul are anywhere close to each other. If you "can't stand" the "libertarians on the right" why on earth would you support the right-wing libertarian Ron Paul?

That's a rhetorical question, BTW. I really am not interested in hearing all about his exciting anti-socialist arguments.

howeird beale

Ron Paul's newsletter has printed absolutely repusive things about people of colour and homosexuals. When caught out, he said he had no idea that disgusting bigoted dogshit was being peddled under his name.

I wont even quote it or link to it, as I suspect it would give certain posters a thrill.

It would also violate Babble policy:

"You understand that racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, classist (e.g. poor-bashing) and other oppressive language that degrades marginalized communities is not acceptable."

Mr. Paul, after disseminating this hateful shit, retreated to the typical chicken-shit racist fallback position of " I didn't know, I love everybody, it was somebody else, I had no idea, you're mean, why are you picking on me, boo hoo hoo"

Even if we grant that, that means he's guilty of massive incompetence. A prospective presidential candidate didn't know what was being written and mailed out to thousands of people in his name.

 

Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.

knownothing knownothing's picture

And who else should they vote for?

Obama?

Romney?

Bachmann?

Trump?

 

howeird beale

There's no ambiguity in the statements in Mr. Paul's newsletter. They're supremicist. Violent too.

And no answer from you regarding or denouncing their uncategorical bigotry.

 

now we see you

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

knownothing wrote:

And who else should they vote for?

Obama?

Romney?

Bachmann?

Trump?

 

None of the above.

knownothing knownothing's picture

howeird beale wrote:

There's no ambiguity in the statements in Mr. Paul's newsletter. They're supremicist. Violent too.

And no answer from you regarding or denouncing their uncategorical bigotry.

now we see you

You see me do you? WHat a joke!

I never said Ron Paul was perfect. He is a right-wing texan, with racist stances and lunatic Ayn Rand ideas. But he is the only one in the States saying they should stop POLICING THE WORLD! Why can't you see the positive effect his ideas are having?

You expect candidates to be perfect.

howeird beale

I expect candidates not to be openly racist homophobic assholes.

 

knownothing knownothing's picture

Maybe you expect too much

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