Just turned off CBC

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Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture
Just turned off CBC

I've really come to dislike, no, disrespect, the reporting and news commentary on CBC radio. Just now, they are doing some segment on the most reported and under reported stories of 2008 and for some reason one of the "guests" had to be a Conservative Party hack from Alberta named Harvey. I mean, why not just invite a known asshole to tea with the church ladies?

Consequently, the jerk enjoys unchallenged partisan political attacks while the other guests politely put forward their own ideas. It is embarrassing. 

More and more I find myself turning off the CBC. I can get that crap anywhere.

Michelle

Are the other guests partisan as well?  If not, that's pretty outrageously unbalanced.

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Not as far as I could tell. I think they were professional journalists. It wasn't just unbalanced, it was bad radio. Having thoughtful commentary, regardless of your agreement with the analysis, peppered with partisan BS is annoying as hell.

I mean, I'm not even talking collegial partisan politics that might be light and fun, but that hateful attack politics so typical of conservatives. It's like finger nails on a chalk board. 

 

Michelle

Well, that certainly sucks.  Have you thought about writing to the Ombudsman?

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

No. I have been a loyal CBC radio fan for years and slowly its sunk to depths as low as anything else out there. The news reporting is shallow and without any meaningful context, the interviews are often with rolodex lobbyists so predictable I could script the questions and answers, and they seem unable to report beyond the talking points.

I was listening to a local Thunderbay FM station last week and I was impressed by the amount news at 6:00 pm. It was like an hour of news reporting and almost all of it meaningful, local, and done well. I thought I wish I could get this kind of radio on a regional and national level from CBC.

There are a couple of programs still done well such as As It Happens. But they are becoming more the exception than the rule. 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

As It Happens is shit. I stopped listening to it years ago.

The interviewers are invariably conservative and horribly biased in the way they ask questions, react to answers, and follow up with other questions. Usually they fail to ask the important questions.

And it takes them a 7-minute interview to convey as much information about a news story as could have been conveyed by a 50-second news report written by a competent journalist. But competent journalism seems to be too much to ask of the CBC these days.

 

 

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Toby Fourre

CBC has been dumbing down for quite a while.   Some of it is by design but I think a lot of it is in response to what they think the listening audience wants.   Have you ever read the posts below articles on the CBC website?  Many, if not most, are from very conservative posters. 

 

For years, I have heard and seen accusations that the CBC is a radical, left-wing, liberal nest of socialists or some such.  A very many Canadians refuse to watch or listen to CBC because they believe it to be overly liberal or overly socialist.  It's all nonsense, of course, pushed by vested interests among various conservative institutions.     

 

I have written to the CBC several times complaining about what I perceive to be their growing rightist bias but my input is drowned out by the nastycons.  

RosaL

I once wrote the (provincial) CBC ombudsperson about their right-leaning political panels. The panel (consistently) was two right-wing media people and one cbc reporter so the point seemed irrefutable. However, they sent me back a nice letter saying, in effect, "we understand that you're some kind of left wing loon and we're going to ignore you". 

 I realize that some here might agree with that assessment but all the cbc knew of me was my letter and there was nothing 'far left' about it at all. I didn't denounce capitalism or call for revolution; I simply pointed out that their panel was woefully unbalanced.   

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Quote:
The interviewers are invariably conservative and horribly biased in the
way they ask questions, react to answers, and follow up with other
questions. Usually they fail to ask the important questions.

I don't disagree with that, but that, more or less, is modern Canadian journalism and it is among the best available. Maybe that's more a condemnation of Canadian broadcast (and print) journalism than a praise of a CBC program.

 

Quote:
I realize that some here might agree with that assessment but all the
cbc knew of me was my letter and there was nothing 'far left' about it
at all. I didn't denounce capitalism or call for revolution; I simply
pointed out that their panel was woefully unbalanced.  

Didn't a CBC staffer say something similar about Bruce Cockburn? You're in good company.

thorin_bane

FM that must have been the house. Every since ms petty starting doing the broadcast her obvious conservative bias. I think she is from calgary from what I remember about the 7:30 show she use to have on newsworld. She has been blatant with her bias, from guest on the show to treatment of guests. She has been called our a number of times by radio listeners(me included) on the mail in portion. Must be something to it, if I'm not the only one noticing. Then you got cross conservative check up on sundays with rex harper.

Yeah the CBC is becoming a...nothing different than before when it serviced the last ruling party.  You can even see it in the crappy shows they put out....heartland, wild roses, border, getting rid of "this is wonderland", intelligence.  The cbc is doing what it can to alienate the only viewers it has had. This is just another example of harper destroying the machine from within to prove how government sucks.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

I am colour blind so this is my new tagline.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I think all the CBC regulars are on holiday until next week.

George Victor

Hey, FM.

I know what you mean about the guy with the grating voice. I hung in there. Turned out to be an old lieutenant of Mulroney's, a cabinet minester out of Quebec, Harvie Andre.

The woman turned out to be Peggy Nash. She tried.  Forgotten the third person.

Anyway, the CBC is obviously bending backwards to not alienate Conservatives...but Friends of Canadian Broadcasting inform that a $200 M cut in budget is coming down the pike.  Already decimated by these cuts the last few years, CBC local works will disappear.  Maybe leaving it a Toronto station. But it's still better than anything else out there.

Seems strange to me that "political" people here would not mention the budget factor affecting CBC quality lately (not just the hackery).  It was Friends of Canadian Broadcasting that informed me of  rabble's existence.

Michael Enright is still a good listen on Sunday mornings. Rick McInnis-Rae's Dispatches are okay. As It Happens does not pretend to be journalism. etc. etc. Ideas is often a wonderful listen. And don't forget old Bernard St.Laurent.   And "Q".

Sure, CBC is dying, but maybe you haven't been exposed to  the flatulence of other stations lately?

-----------------

And t.b., I do not apologize for CBC TV. Only radio (and, of course, Radio Canada, which remains a marvelously subversive force.

The TV people lost the necessary budget for good programming long ago.

 

thorin_bane

George Radio canada being french doesn't have to cater as much to the redneck population. I also was a memer of "friends" some of their things started to grate and I couldn't afford the 20 a month I was sending. I qould rather give 29 per month in funding to CBC. The radio portion does have good moments ddon't get me worng. I know how bad the other channels are. Hell I am excited that next year they will finally get an FM channel so I can listen to them at work. the AM doesn't go through all the steel at my work.

But they aren't like they used to be. There is the rightward drift(flow) Michael enright had me enraged the morning he talked about how no one can understand PR..how can he be so ignorant when every NON english country barring 1 or 2 (industrialized)has pr while it is Can Us and Uk that are stuck in the 17 hundreds. Giving equal time only counts if the issue is contentous with cons like abortion. Every other panel inevitably is a battle of the right and the far right. Look at Israel,

"They have the right to defend themselves"

Was this Harper or Iggy...well it was both, and that is about the extent of the narative coming out of the ceeb as of late. Good Cat Bad Cat  routine.

It is the whole make the left hate it so we can dispense with pretending their is anything but moneyed propoganda. I am sad there is nothing reflecting the 1 in 5 that vote for the NDP at all.

______________________________________________________________________________________
"Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it."
Noam Chomsky

Michelle

Cross Conservative Check Up with Rex Harper. :D :D  Love it.

George Victor

 

As I said above:

"Sure, CBC is dying, but maybe you haven't been exposed to  the flatulence of other stations lately?"

Or perhaps you are all holding out on me, have a good source of informative social commentary and objective news? Perhaps you just can't wait to get your teeth into that DJ-phone in, small-town 'Merica stuff that will really test the vocabulary for colourful adjectives, once CBC is buried by the neo-cons? Cause, of course, you haven't heard anything yet, eh?

Just watch Harper put through an omnibus cost-cutting bill that includes the death knell for CBC local programming. And watch IGGY support it.

 

 

martin dufresne

Haven't alternative left-leaning community media been trying to survive for decades, and yet here you all are whining about how the CBC is disappointing... and on top of it enthusing about Radio-Canada, which just puts out more of the same. Radio-Canada even has a journalists-sharing agreement with Big Gun Desmarais' La PRESSE, for crissake so the very apologists for Jerusalem, Washington & Harper parade at their mikes day in and day out with at bets polite questions frm the hosts!

_________________

There *is* an alternative to hand-wringing about Israel's politic.

Unionist

I can't even watch cbc.ca any more. Look at this ad they're running (sorry, the image feature here isn't capturing it for me):

[url=http://bannerfarm.ace.advertising.com/CDN/32105/states_v01_728x290.gif]C... ad[/url]

Notice anything missing? 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I'm going to miss Air Farce - I think their last show is tonight.

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Quote:

Seems strange to me that "political" people here would not mention the
budget factor affecting CBC quality lately (not just the hackery).  It
was Friends of Canadian Broadcasting that informed me of  rabble's
existence.

That's why I mentioned the local station in Thunder Bay, George. If a small, local, Northern Ontario station can give an hour of excellent news coverage, surely the CBC, even with reduced funding, could do the same.

Quote:

Sure, CBC is dying, but maybe you haven't been exposed to  the flatulence of other stations lately?

But I have, and other than the exception noted above, I agree it is dismal. That is why the CBC has been so important to me. But not anymore. Now I find myself turning it off and looking for news and views on the Internet where I can find diverse and thoughtful views and opinions, as well as in-depth news, from all over Canada and the World. 

I appreciate Harper wants to destroy CBC from the inside but the CBC insiders don't have to help him. It seems to me they are doing exactly that. I mean, for me, it's not even the rightward bend. I can handle that. Hell, I regularly visit the New York Times and find the Asia Times to be a must read. But rather it is the juvenile level of the discourse with so much in common with what can be expected from US talk radio. And it is the predictable interview guests with thier predictable biases and answers.

When CBC introduces for background a former Canadian ambassador to Israel, Egypt, and Jordan, well, I know exactly what (let's call them what they are) lies are going to spew from his mouth: Gaza broke the ceasefire. The massacre, er, Israeli response, is directed at Hamas rockets, and Israel is just defending itself.

And you know, I can even accept that dumbed down version of state department talking points if it is countered with an alternative explanation or insight. But it is not.

I have mentioned to my better half on more than one occassion, that the problem with CBC interviewees is that they are almost all ideologues with an agenda to promote. On economic issues, they interview MBA profs at Queens or Western. I always know exactly what MBA profs are going to say. An MBA is not a degree so much as it is an indocrination. On international affairs, they tend to interview has-been Canadian diplomats still parroting the official (state department) talking points, or "security consultants" who have an economic interest in presenting the world's dark skinned people not as aggrieved populations not beneffiting from the plundering of their own national resources so the rest of us can shop for iPods and iPhones, but as "militants" who hate our "freedoms".

It is all so tiring and insulting to my intelligence.  

Sarann

All media threads are being swarmed by nasty conservatives.  It is part of their strategy.  Save the CBC.  Friends of Canadian Broadcasting.  Join them and make your feelings known. 

An analysis I read figures if the four progessive parties (or so called progressive parties- let me deflect the comments I know are coming about that) continue to run separately we will always have a conservative party come up the middle and win.  How's that for a nightmare.  The CBC won't exist in any form.

 

Oh, yes,  Andrew Coyne on the CBC panel.  EEEEEK

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

George Victor wrote:

As It Happens does not pretend to be journalism.

Carol Off pretends to be a journalist. She interviews people who have information about current events. To me, that's pretty close to the definition of what journalists do.

 

 

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M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Boom Boom wrote:
I'm going to miss Air Farce - I think their last show is tonight.

I won't miss them much. They stopped being funny years ago, about the time John Morgan left. I will watch their show tonight, however, or maybe Friday when it's repeated.

I just realized recently that Air Farce was cancelled by the CBC. I knew they were wrapping up the show, but I assumed (in my naiveté) it was because they were becoming old farts and wanted to retire. Turns out they were pushed - wrong demographic for the new management of the CBC.

They are actually the third-highest-rated show on CBC TV this season.  

 

 

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George Victor

Was John Morgan  "from Canmore?"

Agreed. The best.

But, again, I hold out hope only for radio. And ya hafta pick and choose there.

 

Unionist

No way. Don Ferguson is and was the best.

George Victor

December 31, 2008 - 10:44am

#16 (permalink)

I can't even watch cbc.ca any more. Look at this ad they're running (sorry, the image feature here isn't capturing it for me):

CBC.ca ad

Notice anything missing? 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not fair U. I'm already into a second cold one.

............uh, ..... "I didn't graduate"?

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

My favourite CBC person of all time was Max Ferguson - I found him insanely funny.Laughing

 

I also liked Dave Broadfoot to a lesser extent. Smile

Farmpunk

I agree with some of the points raised by Spector and FM and others. 

I'm still a big CBC Radio fan.  But like any true fan, I'm very critical of "my team."

I do think that certain news and current affairs programs tend to rely on the same talking heads (or the radio equivalent, simply "talkers") too often, with the same topics raked over again and again.  The Current and As It Happens went on a long love affair with Roger Gibbons from the Calgary West Foundation for a loooong time.  He popped up on several other shows, too, over the course of about three years.  I think the Ceeb's agricultural and rural affairs coverage (in my area) is bordering on pathetic.

I think both the news and current affairs shows can be done better, and differently.  But, from what I've been able to gather, the radio side doesn't have a lot of resources to make changes.  And, occasionally, I get the feeling that the people working for the Ceeb don't want to change what they do, or how they do it. 

I find the individual shows often have the best content.  Tapestry, the "religious" show often has more current events info than the "news" programs.  Dispatches can be good, or very bad.  I think Quirks and Quarks is a good program.  Outfront is often very good radio, but it's not news.  The Current can be good, but they really need to do more field work and less phone work.  The same goes for As It Happens, which could probably stand to have a half hour cut off.  Its occasionally good, but I get tired of listening to the journalist talk to people on the phone after a while. 

My local views are skewed by the gaping hole in the Ceeb's radio and tv coverage - that being London-KitchenerWaterloo-Guelph-Hamilton.  I suppose the CBC believes that Toronto programming tells these millions of people what they need to know, but probably not.  And by not even attempting to service these millions of people, the CBC is not doing itself any favours... not when budgeting time comes around.

I've heard diverse opinions on what a chop in funding would do to the Ceeb.  I have a suspicsion there is a lot of managerial\office fat that could be trimmed but likely what would happen is the content creators and journalists would be eliminated.  I know for a fact the Ceeb fills gaps in these areas with contract workers, not fully employed, benefitted employees, to save money. 

As far as the Ceeb being left or right...  Seems to me the right thinks it's left, and the left thinks its right...  Which likely makes it Liberal.  Given the love affair the Ceeb has with the Trudeau clan, that may not be far off the mark. 

Then again, the Ceeb is a broadcaster.  It's quite simple for print web geeks like us to sit back and peck away at any number of topics, with as much venom as we like (and I do like to sink my fangs in from time to time) but in broadcast, that's death.  Burn guests and suffer the consequences.  It's hard to have programs without guests.  Which, of course, leads to the Roger Gibbons phenomenon, where once a good talker is found, she\he's bled to death, perhaps because no one else is availible to take his or her place on air. 

FM, send me a link to the private station that does one hour newscasts.  That's not something I was aware existed. 

   

Unionist

George Victor wrote:
Unionist wrote:

I can't even watch cbc.ca any more. Look at this ad they're running (sorry, the image feature here isn't capturing it for me):

[url=http://bannerfarm.ace.advertising.com/CDN/32105/states_v01_728x290.gif]C... ad[/url]

Notice anything missing? 

Not fair U. I'm already into a second cold one.

............uh, ..... "I didn't graduate"?

It's all U.S. states, George. Nothing about Canada.

Farmpunk

Unionist, you'll have to excuse George V...  He's been reading a little Joe Bageant in case you haven't noticed...

George, sorry.  I couldn't resist.

pedro

Frustrated Mess,

It was an all partisan panel.

 *****

For their take on 2008, I'm joined by former Liberal strategist and author Warren Kinsella and Peggy Nash, a former Toronto NDP member of Parliament and now chief assistant to the President of the Canadian Auto Workers. They were both in Toronto for the show. And from Calgary, Harvie Andre a former member of parliament and Cabinet minister in Brian Mulroney's Progressive Conservative government.

 *****

 Never heard a phrase like "politely putting forward their views" used in proximity to Warren Kinsella before.

I think seething animosity to all things conservative created a blind spot in regard to the panel composition.

Unionist

Farmpunk wrote:

Unionist, you'll have to excuse George V...  He's been reading a little Joe Bageant in case you haven't noticed...

Oh, that's cruel. Laughing

 

outwest

 

CBC has become increasingly right wing, dressed up in left wing feathers. I've written to complain, and yes, received the obligatory replies that suggest they could not care less what viewers think of their programming.

 

Since the onset of the Afghanistan war, I've heard or watched a total of 3 programs that were actually critical of the war -- ones that weren't maudlin or defensive about our position there. Once, on the Current, they had SIX guests defending our position in the war for 10 to 20 minutes each, "balanced" by a 13 second comment by ONE single mother of a soldier against it. Discraceful. Yellow journalism, in fact, and although I think the upper echelon of management knows exactly what it's doing with a pro-war stance, I really do think half the junior journlaists don't have a clue how they're being played as dupes.

I disagree with only one minor point that "Frustrated" made when he said that he thought Michael Enright's program was good. Although for the last two weeks, Michael has finally - after prodding for almost 2 years by some of us - come around to acknowledge the utter depravity of the North American economic system, he still frequently features neo-con guests - such as Margaret MacMillan, Sally Armstrong, and so on, and sticks to a very conservative agenda. I just about choked on Sunday when he asked why we "didn't have any great journalists like Mark Twain who called a spade a spade and saw things clearly"? I felt like calling him up and giving him the name of 10 good Canadian journalists, along with many of the common sense bloggers here who do see the truth. What a dunce he is, albeit a good-natured one.

 

If CBC isn't careful it'll program itself right out of existence - afterall, if what it has to say isn't any different than CTV or Global, then, what's the point? TV's worse, but radio is catching up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

al-Qa'bong

I think it was Enright who recently asked why there isn't any right-wing theatre in Canada, as if he hadn't heard of Steevie-Boy's war on Arts funding.

A right-winger is interested in culture only as a source of box-office receipts.

George Victor

An end of '08 message to Farmpunk and U.

'sal right. Joe isn't p'ticular bout his associations  either.Laughing

Happy '09 mates.

 

Unionist

Many blessings and good health for 2009, George, Farmpunk, and too many other babblers to name.

Because we haven't got a members' list.

Oh, still, my beating heart!

Slumberjack

Who's blessings would they be?  Happy New Year to you for 2009 Unionist, and to all Babblers.

outwest

 

Someone ought to tell Enright that theatre for the right wing is

bedroom-farce dinner theatre and Agatha Christie's "Mousetrap."

 

 

George Victor

 

Mousetrap ?  What calumny is this?

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Mostly CBC for me tonight - Air Farce, Best of Just For Laughs, and Ron James. Huge yukfest coming up! Laughing

My Cat Knows Better My Cat Knows Better's picture

George Victor wrote:

Mousetrap ?  What calumny is this?

Calumny, now that is a word worth taking note of! 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Damn, that Ron James is funny!!!! And George Strombobooboo has Sarah Palin on tonight - let the yukfest continue!Laughing

Hoodeet

The Air Farce started to look and sound sophomoric when it went on
t.v.   It was almost impeccable on radio, without the ham
acting and the mugging.

 

Too bad it was forced out,
though.   It had become better than This hour has 22 minutes (or
22 minutes has become so lame)... I guess I miss the crisp,
intelligent, deep sketches of the earlier 22 minutes.    

Hoodeet

Yes, Ron James is one of the best comedians around, in my opinion.

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Quote:
Never heard a phrase like "politely putting forward their views" used in proximity to Warren Kinsella before.

I think seething animosity to all things conservative created a blind spot in regard to the panel composition.

I'm surprised it was an all partisan panel. Maybe it wasn't so much a blindspot as Harvie Andre was just so much more loud, grating and childish than the others. And Kinsella did come across as polite. I didn't realize it was him, but when spoke about the coalition he seemed quite detached and objective. Or at least I felt no need to turn him off.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Harvie Andre was so over-the-top that it was hard to remember points made by others. I was surprised that they got Peggy Nash on that panel. That was actually much better than their usual left-NDP stalwart, Janice McKinnon.

I used to listen to CBC Radio for most of the day and evening (combo of work and cooking) but these days I have a hard time keeping the radio on. "Ideas" is still top notch as is Eleanor Wachtel's "Arts Today" but so many of the other programs that were worthwhile have been diluted, skewed or replaced by crap.

You can feel the cutbacks on radio. There is so much repetitive programming that I have to keep tabs on whether I already heard something on the weekend or on a weekday morning/afternoon. And it seems like they have laid off technical staff because there are far more glitches than ever before. Between news broadcasts mixing up tapes, intros and extros being out of whack, and phone line connection screw ups -- I experienced better quality control on campus/community radio.

As for their TV line-up, shreik. Seriously, how could they axe such great drama as "Intelligence" and "This is Wonderland" for the dreck that they now have?

I suspect that their money-maker, "Hockey Night in Canada" is next to go, or is that official. Failing to negotiate a renewal of the contract for the theme song was definitely a death knell. TSN doesn't exist on making lucrative offers. That music was their's to lose.

I totally believe that Harper is trying to destroy the CBC from the inside. I also think that Ignatieff will definitely not put up a fight with the proposed cuts to the CBC. What the hell does he know about the CBC or what it means to many of us when he has spent so much of his time outside this countryl He probably will think of it as nothing more than an archaic nation building tool.

The CBC is probably stacked with executives who think they can hang on to their jobs by helping the CBC transition into something new -- perhaps privatized or member supported.

 

Unionist

Great post, laine, fully agree - good to see you around, have a happy and fulfilling 2009!

Scrolling back, I note a lot of other insightful posts about the CBC. What strikes me is the level of appreciation and loyaltyunderlying the criticisms and the cautions.

Maybe we should PDF up this thread (and some similar ones) and send them off to whoever cares (Friends of Canadian Broadcasting; some opposition politicians; some kind souls at the CBC itself) and those who don't (in government). Whether anyone reads it or not, it'll make me feel good!

Sven Sven's picture

outwest wrote:
CBC has become increasingly right wing, dressed up in left wing feathers. I've written to complain, and yes, received the obligatory replies that suggest they could not care less what viewers think of their programming.

At least the CBC has competition.  Could you imagine how much less the CBC could care what viewers think of their programming if the CBC was the only game in town?  This is what amazes me about people who want government running more (all?) aspects of society.  

My question about the CBC is: What the hell is the government doing in the media business in the first place? 

 

____________________________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Unionist

Sven wrote:

My question about the CBC is: What the hell is the government doing in the media business in the first place?

This is a capitalist society. Without government intervention, all the main means of production, distribution, and communication will "naturally" be owned by the wealthy few. Government (ideally and theoretically) intervenes on behalf of society to level the playing field and empower the citizenry in these domains. Once ownership and control is in government's hands, our job in broadcasting (as in electrical generation or education or health care or policing or garbage collection or all the other "businesses" where government is involved) is to ensure that the day to day control and direction is democratically guided as well. That's a tough call in a capitalist society, of course. But worst of all is to agree with Sven that "government" should get out of this domain, so that it's left to the Aspers and their ilk.

Isn't this kind of obvious?

RosaL

Unionist wrote:

Great post, laine, fully agree....

I second that. The point about the conservatives trying to destroy the CBC is a good one. It's a similar strategy to the one they're using against the health care system: starve it of resources until people say, "well, it's obvious this doesn't work. Let's give it to the private sector." 

RosaL

Unionist wrote:

This is a capitalist society.... etc. ....

 

Yep. Well said.  

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

We can see clearly what happens when responsible government is not directly involved in the market place. The fraudulent banksters steal literally billions from the middle-classes and then their corrupt political allies redistribute hundreds of billions more from that same taxpaying middle-classes (aka suckers) to those very same fraudulent banksters. And, still,despite it all, despite the rip-offs, the illegal, privatized wars that enrich the same hucksters, despite the collapsed economy, the homeless and the only remaining growth industry being prisons run by the same brutal, fucked-up little tyrnats that gave us Abu Gharib and torture chambers made in the USA (about all that is besides the prisons) we still got guys like Sven who defend and support it uncritically and in a knee-jerk fashion.

I've often said the US is the world's largest and longest lasting cult. Thank's Sven for reinforcing that. Now put your hand on your heart and treat us to some love bombing (er ... that's not  the kind Americans and Israelis like to subject weak people who still insist on human rights and basic dignity).

 

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