The New Russophobia 2

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Timebandit Timebandit's picture

I'm interested in the "domestic problem" that results in murdered journalists and political opposition. Let's eliminate that little problem before we start nattering about respect.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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The Putin regime is pretty well as neo-liberal, domestically, as our own. There's plenty to criticize there for those geniunely interested in the domestic struggles in that country.

So "those" doesn't include you, I gather.

Edzell Edzell's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
The Putin regime is pretty well as neo-liberal, domestically, as our own. There's plenty to criticize there for those geniunely interested in the domestic struggles in that country.

So "those" doesn't include you, I gather.

Who is the "you" quoted in this post? (and how do you do your gathering?)

jjuares

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Jaywalking and murder are both crimes but......

But what?

We don't punish jaywalkers in the same way that we do murderers.  And law enforcement does have the time and resources to be concerned with both.

This argument usually comes with an implied false dilemma; that because one thing is plainly worse than the other, we cannot possible consider them both.

What's funny is that if some cheating Russian athlete is caught cheating and barred from some or other competition because of that, it's treated as an even WORSE tragedy than the other two.  So much for any honest attempt at some perspective.


Yes, consider them both but as you point out this is a matter of perspective. Hacking is wrong but remember this little hacking scandal. Ironic that the Yanks are complaining.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/08/nsa-tapped-german-chance...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Who is the "you" quoted in this post?

In this post it would be ikosmos, who I don't believe has much interest in the the domestic struggles in that country.  Or doesn't ever say so, at any rate.

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and how do you do your gathering?

All gathering at babble must be done by reading posts, either as a one-time effort, or over many years.

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Hacking is wrong but remember this little hacking scandal. Ironic that the Yanks are complaining.

Well, it kind of comes down to that, yes?  If a state cannot complain of having been the victim of some wrongdoing if that state has ever wrong-done, we'd hear no complaints whatsoever.  Which state can claim that they live in a glass house and have NEVER thrown stones?

 

jjuares

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Who is the "you" quoted in this post?

In this post it would be ikosmos, who I don't believe has much interest in the the domestic struggles in that country.  Or doesn't ever say so, at any rate.

Quote:
and how do you do your gathering?

All gathering at babble must be done by reading posts, either as a one-time effort, or over many years.

Quote:
Hacking is wrong but remember this little hacking scandal. Ironic that the Yanks are complaining.

Well, it kind of comes down to that, yes?  If a state cannot complain of having been the victim of some wrongdoing if that state has ever wrong-done, we'd hear no complaints whatsoever.  Which state can claim that they live in a glass house and have NEVER thrown stones?

 


The thread title is Russophobia. Putin is awful. The Russians cheat and hack and they certainly take the flack for it. But compare the level of criticism that comes their way compared to the Saudis who we in fact we help arm so that they can continue with their oppressive ways. And a little self reflection by the Americans would give them moral standing. And if the Americans showed some remorse maybe their self righteousness wouldn't be so grating.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:

Who is the "you" quoted in this post?

In this post it would be ikosmos, who I don't believe has much interest in the the domestic struggles in that country.  Or doesn't ever say so, at any rate.

Get off your high horse. That is a personal attack and a disgusting direction for this board. I'd hate to think that in the future it would be alright to respond to a post by saying."I don't care what you say I THINK that you have evil intent so anything you say must be suppressed."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
But compare the level of criticism that comes their way compared to the Saudis who we in fact we help arm so that they can continue with their oppressive ways.

So it's really about the Saudis now?

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And a little self reflection by the Americans would give them moral standing.

I'm not at all interested in their "moral standing" or their lack thereof.  But we can have our own opinions, no matter how tainted theirs might be, yes?  That's more interesting to me, because we aren't them.

Quote:
I'd hate to think that in the future it would be alright to respond to a post by saying."I don't care what you say I THINK that you have evil intent so anything you say must be suppressed."

I didn't suggest anything about anyone's "evil intent".  I just suggested that ikosmos doesn't have much interest in the domestic affairs of Russia... particularly if that interest could necessitate criticizing Russia.  If you want to shut my mouth, though, feel free to post us all some links where ikosmos criticized Russian domestic policy.  Don't knock yourself out -- a half dozen would do.

jjuares

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
But compare the level of criticism that comes their way compared to the Saudis who we in fact we help arm so that they can continue with their oppressive ways.

So it's really about the Saudis now?

Quote:
And a little self reflection by the Americans would give them moral standing.

I'm not at all interested in their "moral standing" or their lack thereof.  But we can have our own opinions, no matter how tainted theirs might be, yes?  That's more interesting to me, because we aren't them.

Quote:
I'd hate to think that in the future it would be alright to respond to a post by saying."I don't care what you say I THINK that you have evil intent so anything you say must be suppressed."

I didn't suggest anything about anyone's "evil intent".  I just suggested that ikosmos doesn't have much interest in the domestic affairs of Russia... particularly if that interest could necessitate criticizing Russia.  If you want to shut my mouth, though, feel free to post us all some links where ikosmos criticized Russian domestic policy.  Don't knock yourself out -- a half dozen would do.


We aren't them as you put it but when was the last time Canada criticized our neighbourhood bully. We sure are quick to join in the chorus of criticism directed at the bully across the ocean but the one close to home where our criticism might mean something? Well, our courage and righteous outrage seems to falter.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

lol. So give us an analysis of left politics in Russia. [eta what's good and whats wrong with the communists. other left perspectives. ]

Cmon you guys. This is too easy. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. It' s just not fair.

I'm one guy and you're all outnumbered.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

well exactly. no one here cares about russian domestic politics because it has bugger all in the way of bearing on us here in Canada.  And there's no really genuine concern for working people there anyway.

If you hate all russians, then who cares which ones suffer? it's like that old saying - kill em all and let god sort em out.

Thats the prevailing view on russia, generally. at least in this part of the world.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
We aren't them as you put it but when was the last time Canada criticized our neighbourhood bully.

Fair point, but Canada isn't a babble member and never signed their agreement to abide by babble's terms.

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no one here cares about russian domestic politics because it has bugger all in the way of bearing on us here in Canada.

Right.  Not like Russia's intentions (or lack of intentions) in Syria do.  Or the Donbas. Why should babblers waste even a second on any of this, since it too has bugger all in the way of bearing on us here in Canada?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I suspect she's Putin's mother.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

I care very much about Russian journalists, who seem to be assassinated at an alarming rate. Usually right after writing something critical about Putin.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Really? Care to prove that claim or just because you say it it must be true?

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

More charming Russophobia from - where else? - that paper of record and solid journalism (not!), The Guardian ...

Guardian journalist’s bizarre claim Vladimir Putin’s New Year and Christmas invite is a threat to US diplomats’ children

Only geniuses like Luke Harding can "decode" the threat from the Russian President, cleverly "disguised" as an invite to a Christmas party!

Oh, those fiendishly clever Russians!

Think of the children!

The CBC take on this: An incredible chess move': Putin checkmates Obama after symbolic sanctions manoeuvre - Obama ordered expulsion of diplomats, Putin invited U.S. children to New Year's party

..............................................................

The odiously neocon London Times, in a related vein, decided that Russia "must be punished" for the unsubstantiated claims of election interference in the US (something the US regime itself has NEVER done! lol)

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This cannot be allowed to go on. Britain has a part to play in making life difficult for hostile Russian interventions. It should start by demanding swift regulatory action against the Russian propaganda outlets Russia Today and Sputnik, both with bases in Britain. Meddling with western democratic procedures is an outrage; it must bear a heavy cost.

Goebbels never had it so easy. What RT (not Russia Today) and Sputnik UK media outlets have to do with the alleged actions of some branch of Russian government is never explained.

No matter! Round up the usual Russian suspects. Because freedom.

....................................................

 

NDPP

New Russian Hacks?

http://t.co/vcRIQnjPnV

"No, old Ukrainian malware..."

 

The Same Hackers Blamed For the DNC Email Hack Were Blamed for Hacking the German Parliament

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/12/64645.html

"But that ended up being a leak by German insiders, not a hack at all..."

6079_Smith_W

The ARSTechnica article points out the government report confused the two groups of hackers. Crowdstrike did not, on the other hand. They were actually surprised that two different arms of Russian intelligence hacked the DNC at the same time completely independent of one another. So while the report is flawed, it is not the only evidence which exists.

Here's another article on the Ukrainian malware. Thing is, the version they found was not the same as the one which was used in the DNC hack, and what linked it to the German hack was the hardcoded IP address and shared SSL certificate.

https://www.wordfence.com/blog/2016/12/russia-malware-ip-hack/

 

6079_Smith_W

That top article claims there is no address, when in fact there is an address.

 

NDPP

Washington Post Latest Blunder Proves Fake News is Fine...If It Involves Russia

https://youtu.be/nUz0NwFjGwE

 

Fantasies About Russia Could Doom Opposition To Trump  -  by David Swanson

http://davidswanson.org/node/5399

"To many Democrats for whom killing a million people in Iraq just didn't rise to the level of an impeachable offense, and who considered Obama's bombing of 8 nations and the creation of the drone murder program to be praiseworthy, Trump will be impeachable on Day 1..."

NDPP

Russian Hacking Report

http://counterpunch.org/2017/01/02/russian-hacking-report-all-hat-no-cattle

All hat, no cattle

 

McAfee on Russian Hacking and Cybersecurity

https://youtu.be/MKwEmbFPDBA

"Neither the White House intelligence agencies, nor the media, nor any private security firm has produced any information that would lead an impartial person iwth basic knowledge of communications technology to conclude that Russia carried out a maor cyber-attack against the United States.

When the FBI or any other agency says: 'the Russians did it',...that's a fallacy. Any hacker capable of breaking into something, is extraordinarily capable of hiding their tracks. There simply is no way to assign a source for any attack.

This is a fallacy. But I can promise you, if it looks like the Russians did it it is NOT the Russians..."

 

DHS/FBI Claim of Russian Hacking is Fake News

http://turningpointnews.org/exposing-political-corruption/dhs-fbi-claim-...

"The real question that we should all be asking is why the DHS and FBI would destroy their reputation by posting such a fake report?"

NDPP

Ontario Hydro Utility Potentially Targeted By Russian Hackers

http://iheartradio.ca/cjad/news/ontario-hydro-utility-potentially-target...

"The US Department of Homeland Security, as well as the FBI, have warned Ontario's main hydro utility that the service may have been targeted by Russian cyber-attackers, and cyber-security experts say that something sinister could even happen here in Quebec as well.

'Russia has denied any involvement, but an IP address from Hydro-One was one of several hundred found during the US government's investigation into the summer 2016 hacking of the DNC.

Hydro One insists that the IP address in question was not connected to Ontario's electrical network and the company told CTV News that it is no longer an active IP address in their network...

Still, the revelations have raised alarm bells..."

As intended, no doubt.

NDPP

'Russia Makes Good Hollywood Villain For US'

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/372745-emails-democratic-assange-hack/

"UN animosity directed at Russia is misdirected anger, said Larry Johnson, retired CIA and State Department official. The propaganda plays upon the ignorance of US people, who know little of Russia and the history of its relations with the US.

'It's certainly like the angry drunk, and the poor dog is in the room, and he has kicked the nearest thing available. Look, there is a madness, almost a psychosis in the US right now. But Russia has become a convenient bogeyman.

Another irony here is that in the Podesta email leaks, we discover that it was a Democrat staffer who was recommending to John Podesta that Russia and alleged ties between Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump be used as a weapon, as an avenue of attack against Trump.

So the fact is, we discover it was the Democrats themselves who were recommending this as a line of attack. It did not originate with Russia."

 

'Anti-Russia 'Fake News' Campaign Rolled Out Across Europe

http://wsws.org/en/articles/2017/01/05/fake-j05.html

"The 'fake news' scandal is part of active and advanced efforts, led by the US, to destabilise Russia and encircle it militarily. Helsinki is to be 'the hub' for a NATO/EU research centre into 'hybrid warfare' directed against Russia and ISIL."

6079_Smith_W

THey only reacted after Hillary lost the election? Nonsense. It was news in June and big news at the convention in the summer. 

And the FBI warned them the year before - in September 2015 - that Russia had hacked them.

 

 

NDPP

The Enemy Du Jour is Always Hacking

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/01/the-enemy-du-jour-is-always-hacking...

"Three pieces in the same [mis] leading newspaper shows how little changes with 'hacking' stories when the powers-that-are, decide that country is now the 'enemy'..."

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

THey only reacted after Hillary lost the election? Nonsense. It was news in June and big news at the convention in the summer. 

And the FBI warned them the year before - in September 2015 - that Russia had hacked them.

Those Russians are so subtle that they must be dangerous. Imagine the work that went into leaking actual DNC e-mails in the hopes that the leaks would affect the votes of enough Americans to let Trump win. I admire the sophistication of being able to have targeted the right voters in the right swing states to still have ensured his win while losing the popular vote.

The precision of the operation is truly mind boggling.

josh

kropotkin1951 wrote:

6079_Smith_W wrote:

THey only reacted after Hillary lost the election? Nonsense. It was news in June and big news at the convention in the summer. 

And the FBI warned them the year before - in September 2015 - that Russia had hacked them.

Those Russians are so subtle that they must be dangerous. Imagine the work that went into leaking actual DNC e-mails in the hopes that the leaks would affect the votes of enough Americans to let Trump win. I admire the sophistication of being able to have targeted the right voters in the right swing states to still have ensured his win while losing the popular vote.

The precision of the operation is truly mind boggling.

So if you steal some money in order to play the lottery, but you don't win the lottery, that means you didn't steal the money?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

So Josh what do you think about the American public's right to know about the DNC dirty tricks campaign. Do you think if was a Canadian anarchist group bent on showing that the DNC is a corrupt puppet of Wall Street would it have been okay for them to shine a light on the nasty process used to defeat Bernie?  

josh

Dirty tricks? Give me a break. It was politics as usual. The insiders trying to keep out the outsiders. Only the uninformed or naive could have been surprised or taken aback by the relatively mild tactics.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

josh wrote:

Dirty tricks? Give me a break. It was politics as usual. The insiders trying to keep out the outsiders. Only the uninformed or naive could have been surprised or taken aback by the relatively mild tactics.

So this was the grand strategy of Putin himself. To reveal things that only the uninformed or naive could have been surprised or taken aback by? So now could you explain how that affected the election and caused Trump to win by a margin of minus 3 million.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

That Trump won is more the cherry on the sundae than the expected effect. Best case scenario was a Trump win (and they won the lottery on this one), but a Clinton presidency having to deal with distractions and general instability would have also been a welcome turn of events.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Timebandit wrote:

That Trump won is more the cherry on the sundae than the expected effect. Best case scenario was a Trump win (and they won the lottery on this one), but a Clinton presidency having to deal with distractions and general instability would have also been a welcome turn of events.

Where do you get the memos that spell out the expected effect? So if I follow you guys Putin himself directed a sophisticated hacking campaign to convince the naive that the DNC was doing something wrong. The aim being to generally destabilize America with distractions about Clinton's honesty. 

Sanctions is not enough for this nefarious attack on the homeland of the free and the naive.

NDPP

Looks like PT Barnum was right...

https://youtu.be/iAHJCPoWCC8

josh

kropotkin1951 wrote:

josh wrote:

Dirty tricks? Give me a break. It was politics as usual. The insiders trying to keep out the outsiders. Only the uninformed or naive could have been surprised or taken aback by the relatively mild tactics.

So this was the grand strategy of Putin himself. To reveal things that only the uninformed or naive could have been surprised or taken aback by? So now could you explain how that affected the election and caused Trump to win by a margin of minus 3 million.

There are a lot of uninformed and naive voters. And they are more prone to stay at home rather than voting for the lesser of two evils if enough mud sticks.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

I don't think I or anyone else said that "Putin himself directed a sophisticated hacking campaign to convince the naive that the DNC was doing something wrong." Could you help me out with a direct quote?

The "troll army" as some have termed the large number of people that have been hired in Russia to spread propaganda online, is something that has been reported on in the media as far back as 2013 or 2014. It's well documented that they do indeed exist and that they've been used for a variety of issues - including interference in the electoral processes of other countries. 

Is it far-fetched that this online work force wouldn't be turned to complicating, at the very least, the American election? Why wouldn't they? And when the US intelligence agencies say that they have evidence of this, I'm inclined to believe them. 

Now, I'm sure Putin isn't standing over them, micro-managing every move. It wouldn't be possible for someone in his position to do that, and I'm pretty sure nobody has suggested that this is the case. However, the Kremlin runs the operation and I'm sure he's at least apprised of the operation - as any leader of a country would be. Well, one that takes briefings, anyway.

Or are you suggesting that Putin doesn't know what's going on in his own government?

 

ETA: Also would like to note that the DNC wasn't actually doing anything wrong. Oh, Podesta got accused of engaging in witchcraft because a performance artist invited him to dinner, but other than dining with cultural types it all seems pretty tame. Oh, and Huma and Hillary being "bad" and getting a creme brulee for dessert.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Timebandit wrote:

ETA: Also would like to note that the DNC wasn't actually doing anything wrong. Oh, Podesta got accused of engaging in witchcraft because a performance artist invited him to dinner, but other than dining with cultural types it all seems pretty tame. Oh, and Huma and Hillary being "bad" and getting a creme brulee for dessert.

So you are accusing the Russians of trying to complicate the election by leaking e-mails that show the DNC was clean.  Here let me pass you a different shovel the one you're using seems to only deepen the hole not backfill it.

One Conservative operative in Guelph did more to subvert the Canadian election than you are accusing the Russians of doing. I am gob smacked at just how unsophisticated and incompetent they are to pick such a roundabout convoluted way of affecting the election.

When I was a kid I used to look for Reds under my bed so now you are saying I should be aware of Russian trolls in my computer. I am glad you are warning everyone.  I'll remember to duck and cover when the time comes.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Wow, you've got the nasties today.

You're purposefully misrepresenting what I'm saying. It's a little aggravating, but ultimately it's just boring. I'd love to have an actual conversation about it - we have before on other subjects - but if all you're inclined to do is be a jerk to me, I'll go find something more worthwhile to do.

lagatta4

 

The other difference is that there is nothing remotely "Red" about the current Russian state or government. Putin has a Soviet intelligence background, of course (wasn't George Bush senior also a spy, in the CIA?) but his orientation is more Slavophilic and contrasting the "land Empire" to the anglo "sea Empire". It is deeply conservative.

Web brigades (the Russian operation isn't the only one; we remember the Israeli or other Zionist brigades some years back) shut down conversation and are harmful to websites, in our case a longstanding progressive one. Remember that in the Zionist case only some were paid operatives (of the CJC, not the Israeli state).

I remember the Red Scare too, but the current manifestations of repression of social movements touch everything from the antiglobalization and occupy movements to Idle No More and Black Lives Matter, the more underhanded discrediting of feminist movements against misogyny and violence, and I’d include the actions against the Bernie phenomenon (and the Corbyn phenomenon) although those are merely different shades of pink. Nothing to do with the construct of « Russophobia » . Most racism in our society targets Indigenous people or people of colour, there is also the bigotry called Islamophobia (I don’t like the term, but bigotry against people who are Muslim or presumed so).

josh

Timebandit wrote:
Wow, you've got the nasties today.

You're purposefully misrepresenting what I'm saying. It's a little aggravating, but ultimately it's just boring. I'd love to have an actual conversation about it - we have before on other subjects - but if all you're inclined to do is be a jerk to me, I'll go find something more worthwhile to do.

Thing is, you don't understand. There was once this thing called the Red Scare which ruined the lives of individual citizens based on fear and suspicion. Now there's this thing where a country is accused of breaking into the computers of the political party of another country and disseminating the information through a third party. They are the same, get it?

lagatta4

And both those countries are capitalist, and their governing parties are solid supporters of the existing order. Nothing « Red », socialist or pro-working class about any of them.

NDPP

CrossTalk: Targeting Russia

https://youtu.be/S1G94BcX5wo

"Where is the evidence? This narrative is completely decoupled from any factual basis..."

 

Russia DID NOT Hack the DNC

https://youtu.be/E7t5zbKnvQk

"John McAfee lays it out."

lagatta4

rabble was founded by a veteran anti-imperialist leftist (and feminist) at the Counter-Summit in Québec.

I am sick of insinuations that rabble and babblers as a group aren't mostly anti-imperialist. I've been protesting imperialist war and predation since Vietnam - think I was 12 when I first attended a demo about that. Insinuating that the US is the only imperialist power in the world is grossly simplistic though - for one thing it lets the EU powers off the hook. Germany doesn't have the right to wage war abroad, but German capital is certainly very imperialist indeed. And both France and Britain are still embroiled in matters in countries where they were the former colonial powers.

Lenin was describing imperialism in terms of finance capital in his famous book; of course Russia, with very little industrial development a century ago, was not up there with Germany, Britain or France. He certainly never denied Russia as imperial in terms of it being a prison-house of nations. And contemporary, post-Soviet Russia is far more developed than the largely peasant land of 100 years ago.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

If babble was truly anti-imperialist, then the best followed thread would be the one on Canadian imperialism. I don't know that there even IS such a thread.

C'mon. This shit is obvious. If one is anti-imperialist, the critique starts with one's one country, one's "own" imperialists, and so on. Sorry, this is ABC. Those that don't get this simply aren't anti-imperialist.

Legitimate claims about babble's founder don't translate into the day-to-day political culture of this board. This is a diversion. So, peace to the founders of babble.

By the way, I must admit I'm somewhat undecided on IMPOSING any sort of anti-imperialist perspective here. In another country, far away from the US regime (Mexico, like Canada is "So far from God and so close to the United States"), it's obvious and easy. Here it requires some considerable effort and, I must admit that, I'm probably more intolerant of those who fail to rise to this level of understanding than I should be. Ideally, babble might be both welcoming and demanding of newbies; all that, I think, requires much wider participation than we now have.   

It's always been a conflict here between apologists for US imperialism, and its close ally Canada, reduced now to a US chihuahua, and those who oppose it. As kropotkin noted somewhere recently, completely tongue-in-cheek, it's amazing how babbler XYZ (names aren't important) comes to the same conclusions, independently, as the US State Department does, 99 times out of 100.

Also, as kropotkin noted upthread, Russia is at best a 2nd tier imperialist country and will never rise to the level of the US hegemon and Empire. Neither will China or any other country. Not getting this, not understanding that the US regime is the greatest threat to peace on Planet Earth, is a very, very big mistake. All sorts of other mistakes flow from this one mistake.

In that sense, Russia is a diversion. Their domestic and foreign policy have little effect on Canada, especially with such a poor level of trade, inter-cultural exchange, and so on. Russia is simply a bogeyman to divert attention elsewhere.

I really don't see how sophisticated people on the left can get these - what appear to me - obvious facts so wrong.

Happy trails.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Neil Clark - 2016: A Year of Russian bear-bating.

Not a bad summary of Western MSM Russophobia over the past year. Plenty of it is simply villainizing the Russian President, V. V. Putin, but the klyukvification and Russomania is all there, in rich detail.

Quote:
Lock up your daughters! Batten down the hatches! The Russians are coming! ‘New Hitler’ Vladimir Putin has invaded Ukraine, is threatening the Baltics, and is behind Brexit and the victory of Donald Trump in the US presidential election!

When he’s not bombing hospitals for fun, propping up the ‘evil Assad,’ hacking into Democratic Party emails, or ordering the doping of Russian athletes, the sinister Russian President is orchestrating hooligan attacks on England football fans at the European Football Championships!

Does the blighter ever take a break from acts of villainy?

Well, that was the news in brief for 2016, as brought to you by ‘liberal’ and neocon media outlets in the West. Now let’s take a closer, month by month look at how the anti-Russia, anti-Putin hysteria built up.

Russia is "interfering" in Syria. Russia is weaponizing a giant squid. Russia is both weak as a kitten and about to invade Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia. They even said rude things to my mom.

Putin is a bigger threat than ISIS. Or the Ebola virus. When Russian civilians are shot down by terrorists, it is "a warning shot" by the (adored) ISIS terrorists. Political songs about Stalinism are fine, and NATO is officially glad that the Eurovision contest rules were broken for the Ukrainian "winner".

Putin is responsible for Brexit. And my dirty underwear. CNN said so. And so did the CBC.

And on and on and on and on and on and on.

lagatta4

You're the ones always starting threads about Russia, not me.

And no, I wouldn’t start a thread about « Canadian Imperialism ». Not because it isn’t a thing; of course it is. But because I hate vague, general thread titles, including those with just the name of a country. I’d start a thread on, say Scotia Bank’s role in the Caribbean, or in the Argentine crisis earlier this century. Or Canadian miners and threats to Indigenous people and the Environment in a given country. I tend to start very concrete threads, including threads about very local issues but that have a broader focus, such as housing struggles.

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Right. Because identifying the US regime as the biggest threat to peace on Planet Earth -  or Canada as an imperialist country - are such unnecessary meta-narratives that just aren't  "done" in our shiny, new, meta-narrative-free, post-modern, identity politics world.

That politics is completely compatible and the flip side of the neo-liberal juggernaut that is currently digesting great swaths of humanity.

No wonder we don't agree on much.

 

lagatta4

Global capitalism (of course including the US régime, which is particularly militaristic) is the greatest threat to peace and to life on this planet.

Canada is an imperialist country.

I agree with those two statements. But I don't start threads on topics so broad that they wind up as nothing but inflated rhetoric and insults.

NDPP

ikosmos wrote:

I really don't see how sophisticated people on the left can get these - what appear to me - obvious facts so wrong.

  Perhaps they aren't...

lagatta4

You are defending capitalist Russia, not the Left. I've been an activist for about 50 years and spit on your insults. 

6079_Smith_W

How about this one?

http://rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/jumping-through-...

All about Canada. Says imperialism, not atrocity or any of your other euphemisms. If the wording isn't quite to your liking please don't feel like you have to start another. There are only 20 or so more just like it.

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