super thermite found in 9/11 dust from WTC towers: Part 2

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Webgear
super thermite found in 9/11 dust from WTC towers: Part 2

  

Fidel

[url=http://www.truveo.com/Discovery-of-Super-Thermite-Proves-911-was-a/id/31... Jones demos improvised thermitic device[/url] and vapourizes a watermelon (video)

 

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." Orwell

Webgear
Maysie Maysie's picture

I thought I closed this damn thread!

....

Oh, um, I mean, cool, a part 2. Laughing

I'm adding "part 2" to the thread title to avoid confusion in others. At least about the thread title. The rest, unfortunately, I'm not responsible for. At least there's no photos of damn bugs in this one. Ick.

Webgear

You did close, however I reopened it with my special powers. Tongue out

Thank you for adding part two.

 

 

Maysie Maysie's picture

Aw, shit, you have special powers now? Are the termites, I mean thermites under your control too? We're doooomed!! Wink

Webgear

 

This conservation did not happen, this thread does not need moderating.

Webgear waves his hand.

thorin_bane

Ehh what are you doing . Aaah your jedi mind trick doesn't work on me. (Bad fake Lucas Italian accent.)

Fidel

Pumpkins are fruits. And it's for reasons like these that neocons are forced to order the renditions, torture, and wiretaps

Cueball Cueball's picture

You are right. I will correct it.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Fidel wrote:

[url=http://www.truveo.com/Discovery-of-Super-Thermite-Proves-911-was-a/id/31... Jones demos improvised thermitic device[/url] and vapourizes a watermelon (video)

 

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." Orwell

You should check this out: Fruits Strike Back  

Caissa

89 posts to go...

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

89 bottles of beer on the wall!

Caissa

87

Snert Snert's picture

Who stole 88??  Isn't anyone just the least bit curious where 88 went?  We seem to have jumped from 89 to 87, with no 88 in between, and what do you hear from our media?  Just more Susan Boyle, and Swine Flu stories to distract us from asking the real questions, like where the hell 88 went!  And where are the politicians on this?  Mr. Harper, will you have the courage to demand a full investigation into where 88 got to, or are you so fully ensconced in the pockets of your Washington masters that the cat's got your tongue?  Even the NDP is silent on 88.  I've come to expect a wishy-washy effort from them but COME ON!!!   Numbers don't just disappear!  Try writing them all out on paper and you'll see with your own eyes that there are no gaps.  NO GAPS.  And yet right here, on the Internets, right before our very eyes a number vanishes and everyone just wants to go on with their lives, heads in the sand, la-la-la-fricken-la.  Disgusting.

Oh... 86.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Webgear, thanks for that thermite grenade demonstration. It's the only useful post in the thread so far. Anyone who bothers to take a look should be able to equate the melting of the corner of a metal safe with the possible effects of thermite on, say, iron girders....

Caissa

84

jas

cueball wrote:

Conspiracy theory, of whatever kind, is usually a distraction.

I agree. Found Bin Laden yet?

 

 

jas

Webgear wrote:

Thermite Grenade

Trying to understand what your point is, here. What are thermite grenades used for if they don't actually explode? The video shows that the thermite burned a hole in the top of the metal case it was resting on. Pretty powerful stuff, if you ask me.

 

No Yards No Yards's picture

I hope the point wasn't that destroying other peoples property for fun is something "cool and fun".

Caissa

80.

En Masse down No Yards? 8^))

Snert Snert's picture

I think the point was that humankind has the ability to cut metal with heat.  Like the commercials say, "The more you know..."

No Yards No Yards's picture

Who was your last IT slave? Figure it out yourself.

Caissa

It's so nice to see that your smiling, polite happy demeanour is in evidence regardless of hwat site you are posting on, No Yards.Tongue out

jas

No Yards wrote:

I hope the point wasn't that destroying other peoples property for fun is something "cool and fun".

It's OK. It was probably a capitalist metal safe.

Caissa

74

Fidel

 

And who are these guys making claims under "Our take"?

 

On another page of the same site, they [url=http://www.911myths.com/html/bin_ladin_links_to_the_cia.html]"debunk" the CIA relationship with Osama bin Laden and "al-Qa'eda",[/url] which really is a creation of the CIA, MI6, Saudi royals, and Pakistani military leaders since Zia ul Haq.

 

According to Truthers, people in authority who contribute to sites like that one, "911Myths.com", are not disinterested scientists and academics. Most often they are defending their own work at NIST and other government agencies responsible for the slip-shod investigation. And some are heads of academic departments receiving both "private" and public funding.

We know who Zbigniew Brzezinski is - he's a warhawk and embedded bureaucrat in the White House since the 1970s. In fact, he's still there and advisng Liberal Democrats under Obama. Zbig and Charlie Rose shared a good laugh about Obama's "symbolism" for America and rest of the world recently. So there's no mystery there. But who is Osama bin Laden?

Zbigniew and Osama discuss the CIA-ISI-Saudi funded and orchestrated holy old jihad which Zbigniew never regrets

[url=[/url] ">http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html][IMG]http://img.photo...

 

No Yards No Yards's picture

Quote:
It's OK. It was probably a capitalist metal safe.

 

Yeah, I know. When ever I get a little bored I walk down to HR and set their filing cabinet on fire ... you know, some day they'll probably write a law against mindlessly destroying other peoples property, heck, some day even "brown peoples" property will be protected.

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:
According to Truthers, people in authority who contribute to sites like that one, "911Myths.com", are not disinterested scientists and academics.

 LOL!

 LOL! LOL! LOL!!!

 Not like those disinterested and objective truthers. Science has a lot to learn from them.Sorry for all the lolling, but this is just too incredibly rich.

Oh, and 71.

Fidel

Non-Truthers have suggested that 9/11 conspiracy theories undermine democratic process as well as the credibility of real skeptics of warmongering plutocracy. But this would imply that there is a democratic process to be undermined and sand-bagged in the US. This, too, is false. According to opinion polls, one-third of Americans believe their government had something to do with 9/11. I think that if somewhere around 100 million Americans believe that warmongering plutocrats really are mass murderers, then that's a pretty good start, and the democratic process is succeeding in a country where very little demcracy exists since the national security act of 1947.

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

Yes Fidel, I'm not surprised that this is your response. Did I say that everything in this analysis was 100% trust worthy and true? Nope.    It's also unfortunately the modus operandi of the 'truthers' to basically state or imply that anyone who questions or debunks is part of some group protecting themselves, protecting their interests etc etc. Ad hominom.  It even extends down to sites like Babble where people equated others who questions as well with just being pro-Bush or whatever.  There really is no way to 'win' with truthers, which is to bad because it makes others who might be somewhere in between or who have some questions left in some sort of no-mans land. It becomes a damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of situation.

 

I am well aware about as you are about what the truthers say about these sites. Likewise I am well aware what people say about truther sites.   I don't care really.  I read  what they actually say, especially when it comes to science.  In this case there is a whole lot of questions based on the actual science and methodology involved.  You know the type of stuff that should be less biased.  That's what I was looking at.  If you don't care to read about some of the questions brought up in that link about that stuff because of who it might have come from, fair enough.  Others might be interested though. In the end the questions and science will stand on their own merit regardless of it's source because it's actually verifiable.  Something that goes both ways or should go both ways. That's actually how these things are supposed to work. Someone reports some scientific findings then the community looks at them, tests them, questions them etc etc etc.

    I could have sat here for hours, cracked open my old textbooks since much of the details has gone to the far reaches of my brain and formulated many of the same detailed questions to expand on some of my initial thoughts when I read the Jones report but heck I found one site that was musing about some of the same things so decided to post it.

Snert Snert's picture

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Snert Snert's picture

Huh.  There's one for the tech team.  Every time I pressed the spacebar, it published.  I think that was a septuple-post.

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:
Non-Truthers have suggested that 9/11 conspiracy theories undermine democratic process as well as the credibility of real skeptics of warmongering plutocracy. But this would imply that there is a democratic process to be undermined and sand-bagged in the US.

Perhaps it's too late for democracy in the U.S., but there's really no excuse for crying wolf and flushing that credibility down the shitter. Thankfully, many on the left have put enough distance between the left and the truthers to stand as evidence that not everyone on the left is going to guzzle the Kool-aid any time there's a chance to blame the Shadow Government for something.

I agree with Eliza, though, that there's no real place for someone who, for example, believes that the U.S. could have done more with their intelligence information, but who also knows enough about scientific inquiry to know that the so-called "truthers" aren't really investigating, they're cherrypicking. They'd have a lot of questions for the "truthers" that, unfortunately, are certain to be regarded as proof of their complicity, or some other truther bullshit. It's either swallow the whole "nano-thermite" story, or go back to comforting George Bush. No middle ground, no real questions.

 Me, I was always most curious about the anomalous trading in airline stock just prior, but since that doesn't involve shaped thermite charges planted on key floors in the dead of night, it can't be part of the truth, and frankly, since I'm unwilling to humour any nonsense about an entire aircraft made to vanish with passengers aboard, or Jewish employees getting the day off, or buildings toppling at their base like a felled tree, I can't be bothered going to the truthers for answers.  Let's just let their dramas play themselves out, we'll go through "Loose Change III" and "Loose Change IV" and "Loose Change V: The Return of Freddie Kruger" and we'll watch their credibility evaporate, and we'll pray that the government never realizes that once their critics have lost credibility, they really can do whatever they wish.  Thanks for that, truthers. 

Fidel

ElizaQ wrote:

Yes Fidel, I'm not surprised that this is your response. Did I say that everything in this analysis was 100% trust worthy and true? Nope.    It's also unfortunately the modus operandi of the 'truthers' to basically state or imply that anyone who questions or debunks is part of some group protecting themselves, protecting their interests etc etc. Ad hominom.

The Truthers goal, simply, is to have the very slip-shod and incomplete 9/11 investigation re-opened and pursued according to legal and constitutional requirements. And we're talking not just about a few academics, architects for 9/11 truth, pillots, lawyers, survivor's families and military officers. There are politicians and 9/11 commission panelists themselves who want this major-major criminal case re-opened and proper investigation started.

In fact, the CIA is notorious for encouraging the circulation of "citizens petitions" for signing in other countries in order to interfere in sovereign countries' democratic processes. Theyve done the reverse in the USA wrt 9/11 petitions and new bills introduced to congress. And I think that if there isnt a major war break out in Asia or Middle East as a direct or indirect result of terrorism in general, or a result of global collapse of the capitalist economic system, then there could well be a second follow up investigation of 9/11. This is a matter of democracy not conspiracy theory as the disinformation campaign, the holy old jihad against democracy and waged by non-truthers would lead us to believe.

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

 So then your comments about my link really don't have much to do with talking about the conclusions of the actual thermite report because that is the extent of what I was commenting about.

 

Fidel

ElizaQ wrote:

 So then your comments about my link really don't have much to do with talking about the conclusions of the actual thermite report because that is the extent of what I was commenting about.

I'd be interested to know who they are identified simply as "Our take" for the 911Myths.com site. As I said earlier, I am not a scientist and understand very little about aluminothermics/nanochemistry, and especially nothing of thermitic nanomaterials for possible use as "cutter charges" to bring down tall buildings. Heywood or someone suggested that the presence of ambient oxygen in the Danish tests is  unscientific. As far as I can tell, thermite reacts even in the absence of gaseous oxygen, as in under water.

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

One fairly in depth analysis of the Jones report.

 

Instead of just combing through the report and posting potential other explanation as rebuttals to some comments here I decided to just post the whole thing.

None of it completely discounts the conclusion that 'thermite' was found in the dust outright but it does elaborate on potential issues with that conclusion and how with a real through going over of this reports findings don't necessarily lead to ONLY that explanation for what the Danish team found.

 

Fidel

Snert wrote:
Perhaps it's too late for democracy in the U.S., but there's really no excuse for crying wolf and flushing that credibility down the shitter. Thankfully, many on the left have put enough distance between the left and the truthers to stand as evidence that not everyone on the left is going to guzzle the Kool-aid any time there's a chance to blame the Shadow Government for something

But that's not what leading lefties are saying to lefty truthers. Obama supporters like Howard Zinn suggest that 9/11 truth is something that can never be known, and that it's JFK-like conspiracy all over again. He says, more specifically, that it undermines the real truth that US government foreign policy is creating real and legitimate terrorists whove decided to strike back at the empire. And to believe this is to accept some of the crazy George administration's and CIA's genesis fable. And the fable, in brief, goes like this: Sure we supported Islamic terrorists during holy jihad against the Soviet-backed government of Afghanistan, and then the Soviet army itself for ten years. The CIA and shadow gov spokes people claim to have severed all ties to their Islamic gladios after 1992.

And that's the smelly bullshit which people like Howard Zinn, and we still love him to pieces, cannot fathom or begin to explain let alone the two parties of warmongering plutocrats squabbling over the years as to who aided and abetted "al-Qa'eda" in Central Asia, the former Yugoslavia, Chechnya and so on. It's them on the right and so-called pragmatic middle ground who can't explain themselves about a whole range of events surrounding recent history. I dont agree with these pragmatic lefties who suggest that the terrorists are legitimate terrorists, and that neocons have a bonafide enemy on their hands when they do not. Truthers aim to cut all the way through the bull kaka and straight to the heart of the matter and root cause of global terrorism - right there in the heart of the longest running national security state and most prolific exporter of terrorism to the world.

Unionist

Lard Tunderin Jeezus wrote:

Webgear, thanks for that thermite grenade demonstration. It's the only useful post in the thread so far.

You only say that because I respected Maysie's squeamishness and didn't post any more insect pictures here, like my well-known [url=http://www.rabble.ca/comment/1011426/amazing-Can-you]thermite photo[/url] and my much-loved [url=http://www.rabble.ca/comment/1011440/thorinbane-wrote-Unionist][=gr... beetles[/color][/url].

 

Tommy_Paine

One of the jobs I have done over the years was cutting scrap.  I got to use an oxy-acetalyne torch, and later, a plasma cutter.  Plasma cutters are superior for many reasons.   But I miss the days of adjusting the regulators, cleaning the tips, the brass torch so often handled with untanned leather fitter's gloves that the yellow copper zinc alloy was butter smooth to the touch.  And the faint garlicy smell of acetalyne, the mastery of moving from cut to cut flipping the hoses just the right way so they wouldn't get burned by slag.  The erotic hot kiss of molten steel on bare flesh from time to time. 

Plasma cutters.... sometimes things can be made too easy.

Thermite grenades?  It's like hanging a paint by numbers picture of a clown next to the Mona Lisa.

 

thorin_bane

Chomsky is in that camp and calls it a distraction. The distraction is that a government was in SOME WAY involved in the killing of it's own citizens for the chance to make war and kill people abroad for resources.
You don't have to believe in much other than the official story is bullshit to be a "truther" Set up a true investigation is all they are asking, because the process they used for the report was complete and utter bull. All the people with their mocking laughter here should try to realize that is what we are after not just simply saying US Government is bad and killed it's own. It is the investigation did nothing to even identify why ANY of it happened. It was a smoke screen. A pretext for war and nothing more. There was no W5 on it.

Fidel

thorin_bane wrote:

Chomsky is in that camp and calls it a distraction. The distraction is that a government was in SOME WAY involved in the killing of it's own citizens for the chance to make war and kill people abroad for resources. You don't have to believe in much other than the official story is bullshit to be a "truther"

I believe there is something else behind it other than "distraction" Some of us on the left tend to mock the roughly one-third of Americans polled for believing Saddam had something to do with "al Qa'eda" and 9/11. Cheney and Rumsfeld continue to tell public audiences that this was so. McCain and US diplomats continue to tell Americans that the 9/11 hijackers entered the US by Can-Am border crossings.

The terrible truth, I think, is that not only is "al Qa'eda" a US creation and Islamic gladios still active in various fields of covert operations - so have Liberal Democrats  been complicit with aiding and abetting Islamic terrorists around the world leading up to 2001. The Clinton administration comitted war crimes in the Balkans, and they, along with British SAS and even the Iranians, helped al Qa'eda transform Bosnia into a militant Islamic state during the 1990s, well after the 1992 cutoff date mentioned by blowback proponents. Some lefties in the US dont want to admit this. Obama's election was a big event for the US left. But Obama is just another cosmetic leader of a long line of them. He's no socialist and definitely a figurehead for the warmongering plutocrats wielding real power in Washington and led by their nose hairs by Wall Street fascists

 

Webgear

jas wrote:

Webgear wrote:

Thermite Grenade

Trying to understand what your point is, here. What are thermite grenades used for if they don't actually explode? The video shows that the thermite burned a hole in the top of the metal case it was resting on. Pretty powerful stuff, if you ask me.

 

 

I posted the YouTube video to demonstrate how a thermite device works. Thermirte grenades were designed to damage or destroy military equipment, usually equipment that is about to be captured by the enemy.

Yes thermite devices are very power, however I can not see how could be used in a 9/11 event based of products from various organizations.

As you saw in video, it takes a single grenade a long time to ignite and burn through an object, thermite is not a precision device like other explosive methods or processes.  

There is a recent PBS video showing American soldiers destroying a non-recoverable armoured vehicle, it took 6 thermite grenades to render the vehicle useless, event then the vehicle was total destroyed.

Fidel

Webgear wrote:

Yes thermite devices are very power, however I can not see how could be used in a 9/11 event based of products from various organizations.

As you saw in video, it takes a single grenade a long time to ignite and burn through an object, thermite is not a precision device like other explosive methods or processes.  

 

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR6K90cR8Lg]Thermite weld fuses together a length of railway track[/url] lickety split

 

Workers seem to be using form moulds to prevent molten steel from flowing away from the weld.

Webgear

 

Fidel, I am not a thermite expert.

Can you present a theory on how thermite was use to take down the towers?

In both videos presented by you and myself, there are indications that large amounts of thermite and detonating devices (both volume and weight) would be need to take out any number of sections of steel support beams in a building.

I feel that we have also concluded that detonating thermite is not very accurate, thus control demolitions is very unlike. This is also a problem given the speed the buildings came down.

I am not saying thermite was not used to knock down the towers, at this time I am not convinced that this was the method used.

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