super thermite found in 9/11 dust from WTC towers

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Jacob Two-Two

"They'd prefer an evil conspiracy because, evil though it may be, it indicates some sort of control, and allows them to live in denial about how easily the whole apple cart can be upset by random events."

Well, this isn't me you're describing. Given the choice, I'd vastly prefer to live in a dangerous random universe than one ruled by evil geniuses. But it's not about what I'd prefer, it's about what really happened, and to know that we need more information. Information that few people have any interest in collecting, unfortunately.

As I said, I think it's the defenders of the official version who are clinging to a worldvierw that comforts them. What's really the scarier narrative for people to confront? "Nasty Islamic terrorists blew something up again, but this time they went too far and we're gonna take care of them for good and we're all together in this!", or "Nasty presidential administration blew up their own citizens to manipulate public opinion and will do so whenever they feel it's necessary, and nobody wants to look into it."

I didn't start off doubting the official version. I didn't even give it a thought. When I saw the attacks on TV that day, I said to myself, "Well, it had to happen sometime". The Nasty Islamic terrorist story made perfect sense to me. But since then enough holes have been poked into that story that I don't feel it should be swept into history's dustbin. I think that a real concerted effort needs to be made to figure out what happened. It's amazing to me that almost eight years later there has been no attempt to do this, and nobody seems to mind. It's like we're all comfortable living in ignorance, being spoon-fed official narratives from self-interested corrupt bureaucrats, only rejecting them or accepting them bsed on how they work for us emotionally. Are we all totally unconcerned with the truth? What's so radical about wanting an independent investigation of the biggest security failure in the history of the US? Why is that so ludicrous?

In a sane society it would be considered ludicrous not to have one, but in ours, so steeped in delusion, you can't even raise perfectly obvious questions without being labelled a crackpot, if it tramples a few of western culture's sacred cows. Could capitalism be enslaving us all? Lunatic.  Capitalism makes us free. Is our consumption unsustainable? Madman. Science will solve all problems in the future. Doesn't a security failure of this magnitude need to be looked into? Nutcase. We already know what happened, the papers told us.

Sorry, your blanket dismissals are not good enough for me.

Fidel

Tommy_Paine wrote:

I think there's something more fundamental going on with conspiracy theories.   I think there's a large number of people who just prefer to think that life can't be stood on it's head by a collection of religious fanatics taking down two sky scrappers, or some looney in a book depository taking out a President. 

Not just two skyscrapers but also a third WTC building which no airplane collided with.

And yes, the House senate committee on assassinations concluded after several years of investigation that the JFK murder was a conspiracy. They concluded that if Oswald was the rifleman who killed JFK, it was highly likely that there were more people involved than him. Oswald maintained all along that he was "just a patsy" before being murdered himself.

Quote:
They'd prefer an evil conspiracy because, evil though it may be, it indicates some sort of control, and allows them to live in denial about how easily the whole apple cart can be upset by random events

Are you suggesting that any particular US government since WW II was incapable of doing evil?

I think some clever non-truthers on the left have suggested that 9/11 was too insignificant an event and too few people killed to merit pursuing, and that the vicious empire is guilty of far more than just murdering 3,000 people on 9/11. That's true, but the 9/11 narrative is somewhat critical to the new colder war and global phony war on terror. Because at the same time, colder war hawks are using 9/11 as the basis for perpetrating far more evil than what occurred on that fateful day in New York. The official 9/11 report is even more suspect than the very slip-shod Warren Commission report, which was so slip shod that it warranted a second official US government investigation in 1976.

In addition to the slip shod 9/11 report, we have a continuing dearth of actual evidence as to who planned and excuted 9/11 terror. The evidence they do purport to have are confessions signed by alleged top members of "al-Qe'ada" Non-truthers will rarely discuss the notion that torture is not considered by any world court to be a legitimate method for discovering the truth 

 

Kaspar Hauser

People might be interested in the discussion about this paper occurring at the James Randi forum.  It begins here, with Galileo's April 23, 4:30 pm post: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.phpt=140738&page=11                                                                                                             

 

Here's a response to the paper from "alienidentity" dated April 24, 11:24 am:

"Why is it not surprising that some basic aspects of their inquisition inquiry seem VERY unprofessional?

1) Totally nonexistent protocols for chain of custody of materials - this would never stand up in court for more than a nanosecond.
2) Presence of oxygen while heating the red chips, basic fail in ruling out paint or other source for material
3) wildly varying energy density of chips not addressed properly. Given that thermite has an energy density of 4 kJ/Gram, and known thermite doesn't produce any more than about 2.5, 3 out of 4 Jones samples are almost certainly NOT Thermite, by definition.

And it can't be just ANY type of thermite. No. It is precisely that which contains the elements found in the red chips. There's no wiggle room to hypothesize about the composition anymore. The choice has indeed been made.

4) Jones was bleating for years to his flock about 'Abundant Iron, Zinc; Barium & Sulfur (typical in military thermates*' http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...lyiKYEMF6QlPmA
Whoopsidaisies! Where'd the Zinc and Sulphur go? Oh....it's a FAIL! Surprise, surprise..."

Fidel

There are nine scientists involved, not just Steven Jones. And surprise-surprise, some of them are not US nationals.

And the hand-picked 9/11 commission panelists were not even twelve angry men. They were ten angry men now reduced to seven.

Kaspar Hauser

Fidel: So, what about the criticisms of the procedure used in their tests?

Cueball Cueball's picture

Jingles wrote:
The simpler explanation for the collapse, regardless of whom was behind the airplanes crashing, was probably the mundane and routine corruption and corner cutting involved in building the WTC back in the 60's. If the engineering plans call for a certain grade of structural steel, but another grade will save some money, who's gonna know the difference after it's done?

Absolutely.

remind remind's picture

Jacob Two-Two wrote:
"I didn't start off doubting the official version. I didn't even give it a thought. When I saw the attacks on TV that day, I said to myself, "Well, it had to happen sometime". The Nasty Islamic terrorist story made perfect sense to me. But since then enough holes have been poked into that story that I don't feel it should be swept into history's dustbin. I think that a real concerted effort needs to be made to figure out what happened. It's amazing to me that almost eight years later there has been no attempt to do this, and nobody seems to mind. It's like we're all comfortable living in ignorance, being spoon-fed official narratives from self-interested corrupt bureaucrats, only rejecting them or accepting them bsed on how they work for us emotionally. Are we all totally unconcerned with the truth? What's so radical about wanting an independent investigation of the biggest security failure in the history of the US? Why is that so ludicrous?

In a sane society it would be considered ludicrous not to have one, but in ours, so steeped in delusion, you can't even raise perfectly obvious questions without being labelled a crackpot, if it tramples a few of western culture's sacred cows. Could capitalism be enslaving us all? Lunatic.  Capitalism makes us free. Is our consumption unsustainable? Madman. Science will solve all problems in the future. Doesn't a security failure of this magnitude need to be looked into? Nutcase. We already know what happened, the papers told us.

Sorry, your blanket dismissals are not good enough for me.

Yes, I concur with this and with this and wonder why there is such an intense effort at using the propaganda tool of ridicule and mockery, by some?

Fidel

Michael Nenonen wrote:

Fidel: So, what about the criticisms of the procedure used in their tests?

I'm not a scientist, and I'm pretty sure neither is James Randi. And I just cant be sure about that poster who goes by alienidentity.

 

I havent checked his credentials, but it looks like Niels Harrit is a professor of nanochemistry at the University of Copenhagen in Denmark.

 

twoten

I find the mockery and ridicule quite strange too. Why do they get so heated up over this topic? Do people still believe that burning jet fuel brought down 3 of the world's strongest steel frame buildings in less than an hour? Here are some things to think about, courtesy of http://www.ae911truth.org/

 

The Twin Towers' destruction exhibited all the characteristics of destruction by explosives:

1.  Destruction proceeds through the path of greatest resistance at nearly free-fall acceleration
2.  Improbable symmetry of debris distribution
3.  Extremely rapid onset of destruction
4.  Over 100 first responders reported explosions and flashes
5.  Multi-ton steel sections ejected laterally 600 ft at 60 mph
6.  Mid-air pulverization of 90,000 tons of concrete & metal decking
7.  Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic-like clouds
8.  1200-foot-dia. debris field: no "pancaked" floors found
9.  Isolated explosive ejections 20 – 40 stories below demolition front
10. Total building destruction: dismemberment of steel frame
11. Several tons of molten metal found under all 3 high-rises
12. Evidence of thermite incendiaries found in steel & dust samples
13. FEMA steel analysis: sulfidation, oxidation & intergranular melting
14. No precedent for steel-framed high-rise collapse due to fire

If you dropped a 100 pound chunk of concrete off the top of the WTC, and it collided 200 times with other objects on the way down, what would you expect to see at the bottom?  If you didn't say "One hundred pounds of extremely fine dust floating in the air", then you know that something is wrong with the official explanation.

I wonder why demolition companies the world over haven't abandoned their dangerous explosive techniques in favor of a few thousand gallons of kerosene? Wouldn't it be faster, cheaper, and just as effective?

Draco

twoten wrote:

I find the mockery and ridicule quite strange too. Why do they get so heated up over this topic?

I think there is a fairly mundane answer to that.  This issue gets instantly heated on both sides whenever it is raised in any forum because people on both sides have in the past ridiculed and mocked the other side, so many people tend to enter it in a defensive mindset.

Unionist

Draco wrote:

... both sides have in the past ridiculed and mocked the other side, so many people tend to enter it in a defensive mindset.

Are you saying even the ancient Egyptians saw twoten comin'?

 

abnormal

al-Qa'bong wrote:

If these guys had this superdooper explosive, what were the aeroplanes for?

 

Drama?

What planes??

 

[img]http://rookery2.viary.com/storagev12/699500/699761_a62e_625x1000.jpg[/img]

jas

I'm pretty sure you or someone else has used that one before, abnormal. Same tired shouting-down. Must be frustrating not having an actual argument. And folks, trashing threads cuts all ways. I've got some silly shit that needs dropping somewhere, too. Maybe the autoworkers thread? Large graphics, fart jokes, name your poison. At least my jokes don't ridicule the deaths of 2700+ people in a single tragic event.

Unionist, aren't there some snowmobilers dying somewhere? Get back to work.

 

 

Webgear

The majority of those killed were capitalists, no real lost for the most part.

jas

I'm pretty sure you don't actually mean that.

As someone who served/serves in the Canadian Armed Forces, whose interests do you serve?

al-Qa'bong

Unionist wrote:

Draco wrote:

... both sides have in the past ridiculed and mocked the other side, so many people tend to enter it in a defensive mindset.

Are you saying even the ancient Egyptians saw twoten comin'?

 

 

Groooan. Ra will get you for that, Unionist

Fidel

[url=http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s5i51615]NIST relieved after 'missing link' found[/url]

 

Quote:

The US National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has expressed relief after a team of independent researchers found conclusive evidence of explosives (nano-thermite) in dust samples from the World Trade Centre collapses, as reported on TV2 NEWS in Denmark.

NIST spokeswoman, Penelope Prevaricator, issued the following statement:

"NIST was charged with the difficult task of having to explain the three WTC tower collapses based on fire and plane impacts alone. Our job was made easier by the almost complete lack of physical evidence at our disposal. But we still had to ignore the few steel samples in our possession. In the end, computer simulations saved the day. Although some noisy critics refused to just shut up and take our word for it, demanding that we test for evidence of explosives. The embarrassing truth is that we could not have tested for explosives even if we had been allowed to, as we simply had nothing to test.

"Thankfully, all this has changed since Dr. Niels Harrit from the University of Copenhagen and 8 other researchers confirmed the presence of nano-thermite in four dust samples taken from ground zero.

"Now we can all drop this charade and finally believe what our eyes have been telling us all along, that the towers exploded rather than collapsed. It is a huge relief for NIST staff, who have been under a lot of pressure. A virtual epidemic of cognitive dissonance had left several departments severely understaffed."

 

"Penelope Prevaricator" HA!

Unionist

jas wrote:
At least my jokes don't ridicule the deaths of 2700+ people in a single tragic event.

 

Hahahahaha. You believe that crap? 2700+ people dead? Hahahahahahaha. Boy, did Bush and Cheney ever pull a fast one on you. Ole PT Barnum had it right.

 

Unionist

Webgear wrote:

The majority of those killed were capitalists, no real lost for the most part.

Quite right, whereas most snowmobilers are regular folks, and some people here are still mourning the alleged deaths in the WTC (never saw any bodies... did you?) while making light of the deaths of young Canadians that are ongoing to this day.

 

Jingles

I'm willing to believe that elements of the US government has a hand in the event (considering the ties of the flight schools to Iran-Contra players). I'm willing to say something fishy went down at the Pentagon. I believe that the US Air Force did indeed shoot down 93. From the complete lack of criminal investigation into the crime, including obvious destruction of evidence, planting evidence, obstruction of justice, perjury, and criminal negligance by the administration, I believe that Bin Laden had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

What I cannot entertain is complete nonsense, idiocy, and distraction of super thermite, nano explosives, lasers, "faster than free-fall", or other comic book speculation. The how isn't important. It's the why and who that are critical.

If you allow yourself to get wrapped up in the minutia of speculation, of entertaining every bizarre theory, of focusing on the improbable, you lose sight of the big picture.

Fidel

Unionist wrote:

Webgear wrote:

The majority of those killed were capitalists, no real lost for the most part.

Quite right, whereas most snowmobilers are regular folks, and some people here are still mourning the alleged deaths in the WTC (never saw any bodies... did you?) while making light of the deaths of young Canadians that are ongoing to this day.

But they have to murder desperately poor Afghans, Pakistanis, and Iraqis to demonstrate to the phony terrorists that murdering WTC workers was wrong. All of those war crimes in the Middle East and Central Asia are intimately tied to 9/11.

Some here tend to believe the neocon and CIA narrative surrounding 9/11 - that it was "blowback." That's the neocon's story and theyre sticking to it - all except for a few former high ranking Bush admin officials still insisting to Americans that Saddam was linked to "al-Qa'eda" and 9/11. About a third of Americans are dyed in the wool Republican Party supporters. And about a third of Americans still believe Saddam had something to do with 9/11. It might be lies and deception, but the lies and deception are effective when it comes to bought and paid for governments in Washington and Ottawa. What if the third of registered US voters backing the Republicans, and the one-fifth or so of registered Canadian voters who elected Steve were to become doubtful and even question the war parties loyalty to North Americans wrt their intentions to protect them from terrorism?  What if loyal conservatives and even those sometimes conservative-Liberals were suddenly suspicious of the mass murdering war criminals and vicious toadies theyve supported and voted for decade after decade?

Fidel

Jingles wrote:
 I believe that Bin Laden had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

What I cannot entertain is complete nonsense, idiocy, and distraction of super thermite, nano explosives, lasers, "faster than free-fall", or other comic book speculation. The how isn't important. It's the why and who that are critical

I think "al-Qa'eda" was involved, and that they were in close communication with CIA and ISI intel for months leading up to 9/11. I think it really was a conspiracy complete with CIA-NSA planning, and executed by Islamic gladios with CIA-ISI oversight.

And it's not a theory pulled out of thin air. Because there is pattern and precedent with Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and the NYC chapter of Al-Maktab with prior ties to OBL and Pakistan's army intelligence. They were allegedly involved in the first attempt to bomb WTC in 1993. And now the US colonial outpost government in Kabul is said to be negotiating with Hekmatyar and Taliban warlords. It was a conspiracy that led to this phony global war on terror.

Which of the crazy George Bush I&II and Clinton regime lies are babblers having trouble disbelieving? 

Unionist

Fidel wrote:
What if loyal conservatives and even those sometimes conservative-Liberals were suddenly suspicious of the mass murdering war criminals and vicious toadies theyve supported and voted for decade after decade?

Why, the revolution would instantly happen, the evil bad guys would fall from their thrones, and we would all be in Paradise. Just like what happened after the sponsorship scandal and Bay of Pigs and Gulf of Tonkin etc. Capitalism and imperialism were finished, once and for all.

Or not. And those were real scandals.

 

Tommy_Paine

"Doesn't a security failure of this magnitude need to be looked into? Nutcase."

Well, that's my point. A security failure of that magnitude did need to be looked into. And there is, and was, enough mundane, official evidence for criminal prosecution.  But, the more convoluted conspiracy theorists made it possible for the previous administration to label anyone who looked into the facts as "nutcases."

"Are you suggesting that any particular US government since WW II was incapable of doing evil?"

Certainly not.  It's just an observation on conspiracy nutcases, who are more absorbed in proving their hypothesis than they are in actually doing something about what happened.

Because there was a conspiracy.  The administration and the media conspired to gloss over the demonstrated incompetence of the Air Force.  The administration, and the media conspired to use the event on 9/11 to manipulate the American people into a War with Iraq, probably the most baseless war since the Mexican American war in the 1830's.  A war that has resulted in so much loss of American life, it's difficult not to associate this with treason.  A war that has resulted in so much Iraqi loss of life, it's difficult not to associate it with war crimes.

Who needs super thermite, when we already have this?

 

 

 

Cueball Cueball's picture

I don't really buy any of it. I liked the Danish guy when he asked about the 19 hijackers conspiracy theory. So even if his science is bogus, he is on the right track. I am not believing any of it. What I do know is that if I knew who did it, I would be running with a pretty lousy crowd. Other than that I am with Unionist.

Conspiracy theory, of whatever kind is usually a distraction. People will take a huge amount of abuse. One just needs to live ones life in this society to see mass corruption, abuse, lies and exploitation. One doesnt have to look at the twin towers to see crime on a massive scale taking place on a day to day level. And still, despite this knowledge of overt corruption that most people are at least basically aware of the society persists unchanged for the most part: looking after no 1. The knowledge itself does little, and this has more than a little to do with the fact that most people are complicit, or willing to be complicit, often out of purely selfish material motives and see few options outside complicity, and it is hard to blame people for that.

It is not as if something irrevocably different happened on 9/11 2001, whomever is ulttimately responsible. It is not the people don't have knowledge and don't "see", because many many people do: however you slice it, it was a very bad deal. They are just confused about the way forward and afraid and justifiably. To me it just looked like another massive crime. of a kind many people living under the weight of the empire have felt for many years. So? So what?

Knowing the answers (or believing you have them) means nothing without the courage and will to attack the fundamental roots of corruption, much of which lies within ourselves. Knowing how it happened and why, and who was immediatly responsible does little to resolve these root cause, which lies elsewhere.

Even if Mohammed Atta and company did do this deed, it's an expression of the raw corruption at the heart of this society, and this is a point that very few people seem to glom onto. These people were not "the other" but in fact deeply embedded CIA assets, who turned the tail on the Donkey. This fact is clear even in the "official" conspiracy theory, as our Danish friend puts it. If it was dereliction of duty by US security people, that is also an expression of the same corruption. If the structure was unsound due to short cuts in the construction process, it is again the same corruption at work, if it was nano-thermite placed by persons unknown in the Chenny adminstration, it is still the same corruption at work.

How precisely will be always an issue of debate, but ultimately the corruption has the same source whichever theory you favour. Having the wiill and knowing what to do about that corruption is something else entirely. This is not just a matter of "truth telling."

Fidel

Unionist wrote:

Fidel wrote:
What if loyal conservatives and even those sometimes conservative-Liberals were suddenly suspicious of the mass murdering war criminals and vicious toadies theyve supported and voted for decade after decade?

Why, the revolution would instantly happen, the evil bad guys would fall from their thrones, and we would all be in Paradise. Just like what happened after the sponsorship scandal and Bay of Pigs and Gulf of Tonkin etc. Capitalism and imperialism were finished, once and for all.

But Bay of Pigs through to fomenting anti-Cuban terrorism was typical imperialist fare and perpetrated against foreigners. An immoral  war in Vietnam was warfiteering against non-Americans.

And the Gulf of Tonkin fiasco was a flimsy excuse to attack Viet Nam. 9/11 was similar to the Tonkin incident but also unique in that it was a phony pretext to invade three sovereign countries and wage indiscriminate war on poor people, and flout Geneva and UN conventions designed to prevent wanton border crossings by military forces since WW II. 9/11 might be comparable to the Nazis receiving a UN blessing to invade Czechoslovakia and Poland on false pretenses, that German nationals and German national security was threatened by foreign governments and ethnic groups.

9/11 was perpetrated against Americans. 9/11 was a complete failure of the national security state to protect Americans from harm. And that's a terrifying thought for so many of them whove been led to believe that Republicans are the war party and that no harm can come to the empire on their watch. And the Lib-dems wont be fooled again, and again, and again...

HeywoodFloyd

Further investigation by Jones and his colleagues will soon reveal that the entire wtc complex, and all its contents, was made of small clusters of atoms combined together by high-tech electromagnetic and quantum forces into very tiny (nano-scale) particles which I suggest be named "nanocules."

The unprecedented fabrication of such enormous amounts of nanocular materials and structures, in the 1970s, could only have been accomplished by secret military technology (most likely derived from extraterrestrial alien sources).

Nanocules have a known weakness: their structures can often be disrupted (that is to say, recombined into different configurations that lack the useful properties of the originals) by means of energetic interactions with other nanocules. This is called DNR, short for Discombobulative (or Destrutive) Nanocular Reconfiguration (or Rearrangement). Many of the events of 9/11, such as the emission of nanosmoke, exhibited distinctive features of DNR. Since, as we've established, only secret government military science has access to active nanocules, this is absolute proof that the destruction of the wtc complex was indeed a government conspiracy.

The motive may still remain unclear, however. Perhaps it was simply to prevent knowledge of nanocules from falling into the wrong hands.

 

Thanks to Myriad for the information

Fidel

Thanks, Heywood. Have you ever thought about teaching a chemistry course, say [url=http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html#intr... 101?[/url]

So besides the military, and anyone connected to the military, who else would be able to access superthermite?  I doubt I could get my hands on a stick of dynamite without the cops asking me which mining company I might be buying it for.

 

 

HeywoodFloyd

So what are the differences between Thermite and SuperThermite?

Fidel

I think it has to do with the size of the milled iron and aluminum particles. The smaller the milled particle the greater the potential for energy release. It sounds like thermites have more to do with pyrotechnics than explosives - a classification of materials which was the basis for not examining dust samples for anything more than evidence of explosives. Apparently thermite has been used as a pyrotechnic by militaries since the 1990s or so.  And thermites have wide ranging quality and energy release rating per unit mass and per unit volume.

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:
So what are the differences between Thermite and SuperThermite?

 

When SuperThermite takes off its glasses and steps into a phone booth it becomes mild-mannered Thermite. But when a nation's nutbars need it, SuperThermite is there! Able to fell tall buildings in a single blow, all the while making it look like the buildings were hit by massive jets.

 

I think this discovery calls for a THIRD version of "Loose Change", perhaps entitled "third time's a charm". That's right folks, discard the previous "truths". This one's the keeper! No going-backsies this time!!!

HeywoodFloyd

The problem with Thermites et al is that they have a smaller energy rating than many other explosives because they contain the reacting agent inside them (in Termite's case, O2). So Kerosene has a far higher energy rating.

The ignition tests conducted on the chip samples had an external flow of O2, which means that any reaction could have been as a result of the O2 interaction. In order to prove conclusively that these chips were Thermite as opposed to a contaminated mash of paint, steel, aluminum, et al, the ignition tests should have been conducted in a non-reactive  (such as Xenon) gas environment, Had ignition occured, it would show that the O2 in the chips was enough to sustain the ignition, proving it to be Thermite.

WRT the particle size, milling the particles into nano size doesn't increase its energy rating. It would make the substance burn faster but just as hot. It would still put out the same energy, just faster.

Fidel

"When SuperThermite takes off its glasses and steps into..."

 

Another pro-Bush non-truther makes with a post. They have few answers and about as humourous as boiled kleenex.

And we'll be looking for heywood's paper on nanochemistry on Bentham-open's site, for sure.

HeywoodFloyd

Really Fidel? That's the sum total of your response to my post?

Ok Then. I should have known better than to engage you in good faith.

I'll wait for independant verification from an organization and\or lab not affiliated with Jones or any of the other authors, or truthers in general.

contrarianna

As previously stated, I don't discount the real possibility of US and/or Israel government involvement in either active or passive involvement facilitating the attack on the WTC--there is circumstantial evidence, motive, and historical presidents for such action.

However:
The psychology of conspiracy theory demands that the conspiracy be as fantastically extravagant as the actual event is momentous.

The science and operational requirements of these "theories" requires the credulity of a generation that finds the plots and action of Mission Impossible pedestrian.

Hence, Robert Ludlum's: The Belt and Suspenders Sanction:

Location: In the Star Chamber

Dark Lord Cheney:  
"Gentleman, after we have our agents suicide themselves and planeloads of innocent passengers by flying into the twin towers, we fear it may not be sufficent to really justify to the American public the creation of a terrorist-fearing society or our more aggressive Middle East policy.

Therefore, we have decided, at great risk of discovery, to guarantee the collapse of the Towers, to plant explosives throughout the WTC. We will initiate the collapse of the towers exactly at the floors where the aircraft happen to strike and dump their full loads of jet fuel.

All: Agreed, no problem.

Dark Lord Cheney:
Oh, Just to really, really make sure our policies our implimented, we better bring down WT7 as well.

All: Agreed, no problem.

Dark Lord Cheney:
Oh, I almost forgot, Just to make really, really, really make sure our policies our implimented, we have to hijack and make dissapear flight 77 so we can send a missile into the Pentagon.

All: Agreed, no problem.

twoten

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

So what are the differences between Thermite and SuperThermite?

Ordinary thermite is an incendiary whose claim to fame is that it burns at a higher temperature than just about anything else. When thermite is combined with some other compound that produces a lot of gas very quickly, then it becomes an explosive. The smaller the particles of the iron and aluminum metals, the lower the initial ignition temperature. So if you tossed a pile of powdered aluminum and rusty iron dust into a crucible, you could ignite it with an oxy-acetylene torch at around 900 degrees and then it would burn much hotter. But if your particles were ground up super fine, then it would ignite at around only 400 degrees. These particles were ground up super duper fine, mixed with a gas producing organic compound whose composition is still a mystery, then deposited in thin uniform layers. This is not kitchen chemistry like a meth lab or ecstasy factory. This is very high tech, controlled production, secret laboratory kind of stuff. This thermite is ideal for slicing through the world's strongest structural metal, which the WTC towers were built from. It would seem as if it were specifically designed for this task. Only a few places in the world are capable of making this, it's an elite material that has expanded the known science of explosive cutting materials.

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:
Another pro-Bush non-truther makes with a post.

Huh. I don't recall mentioning Bush, H or W.
But I guess if I'm not onboard with this wacko search for some way to blame it on Bush
the "TRUTH" then I must support Bush. Is that it?
You reek of desperation.

Fidel

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

Really Fidel? That's the sum total of your response to my post?

Ok Then. I should have known better than to engage you in good faith.

It's because of non-truthers like you and sinert above that US feds have to wiretap people on the QT and occupy oil-rich and strategically located countries militarily. It just never ends.

Quote:
I'll wait for independant verification from an organization and\or lab not affiliated with Jones or any of the other authors, or truthers in general.

Dont trust scientists in Denmark not endorsed by Murder Inc.?  

Fidel

Snert wrote:
Quote:
Another pro-Bush non-truther makes with a post.

Huh. I don't recall mentioning Bush, H or W


You never mentioned either of the crazy Georges, no. And I never suggested that you are part of the lunatic rightwing fringe for basically parroting crazy George Bush's party line on 9/11.

HeywoodFloyd

twoten wrote:

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

So what are the differences between Thermite and SuperThermite?

This thermite is ideal for slicing through the world's strongest structural metal, which the WTC towers were built from. It would seem as if it were specifically designed for this task. Only a few places in the world are capable of making this, it's an elite material that has expanded the known science of explosive cutting materials.

How would the "superthermite" be applied to the structure and how could it make a horizonatal cut in the metal? Also, how did the tests that Jones is touting conclusively prove that the chemical is "superthermite" given that there was an external O2 supply during the test?

 

Fidel

And I probably won't, in future, accuse anyone of towing the official G. W.W. Bush III party line for the American inquisition part XIII then either.

HeywoodFloyd

Fidel wrote:

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

Really Fidel? That's the sum total of your response to my post?

Ok Then. I should have known better than to engage you in good faith.

It's because of non-truthers like you and sinert above that US feds have to wiretap people on the QT and occupy oil-rich and strategically located countries militarily. It just never ends.

 Fidelesque Diversion

Fidel wrote:

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

I'll wait for independant verification from an organization and\or lab not affiliated with Jones or any of the other authors, or truthers in general.

Dont trust scientists in Denmark not endorsed by Murder Inc.?  

The test should be easily replicable by another lab. Maybe this lab could conduct the burn test in a neutral environment though.

 

Webgear

Ok, I have a serious question? Has anyone on this forum personal seen thermite in use in before?

I am not talking on TV, YouTube or read about it in a book.

Caissa

I've used semtex, Webgear.

Are we close to 100 posts yet?

HeywoodFloyd

Fidel, we aren't talking about renditions et al. We're discussing the report in the OP. Any thoughts on the actual test?

Fidel

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

Fidel wrote:

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

Really Fidel? That's the sum total of your response to my post?

Ok Then. I should have known better than to engage you in good faith.

It's because of non-truthers like you and sinert above that US feds have to wiretap people on the QT and occupy oil-rich and strategically located countries militarily. It just never ends.

 Fidelesque Diversion

But all of the renditions, torture, indiscriminate bombing, military occupations, overbloated homeland stupidity bureaucracy etc hinge on this thing with "al-Qa'eda", a US creation actually, since 9/11. By 10 o'clock than morning there was a list of wanted al-Q agents produced for having perpetrated 9-11. Five years and 183 waterboardings later, KSM is the latest 9/11 patsy accused by the American inquisition. Is this so-called evidence good enough for non-truthers?

 

Fidel wrote:

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

I'll wait for independant verification from an organization and\or lab not affiliated with Jones or any of the other authors, or truthers in general.

Quote:
Dont trust scientists in Denmark not endorsed by Murder Inc.?  

The test should be easily replicable by another lab. Maybe this lab could conduct the burn test in a neutral environment though.

So far the rightwing and hirelings in newz media havent addressed the independent Danish analysis. Not Fox or CNN or even the BBC as far as I can tell. Meanwhile more and more people suspect the Gladio gang of having produced a whitewash wrt the offical 9/11 report.

Webgear

Caissa

Very close however I assess these thread will have a sequel.

Fidel

As I replied to MN, I'm not a scientist, and neither is James Randi. And I have no idea who the Randi poster "alienidenity" could be or their qualifications. The refutations at least sound good, but I think people would like to see some accountability and transparency with a legit 9/11 investigation. This will necessitate NIST or other federal agencies to roll up their sleeves and produce the goods to address these latest questions. And the Pentagon, CIA, FBI etc will have to produce the evidence which they witheld from international courts of law which were forced to prosecute the Hamburg cell to lowest extent of international laws as a result of the lack of evidence. And never mind the American inquisition's evidence extracted under torture at Gitmo. The KSM as 9/11 mastermind narrative doesnt have wheels as far as real criminal courts are concerned

Caissa

I wonder what the first documented conspiracy theory in history is...

Snert Snert's picture

The miserable state of humankind is all thanks to some woman hanging out with a talking snake and eating an apple.

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