WikiLeaks

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NDPP

Louise Mensch tell you that?

NDPP

Journalists Are All Julian Assange  -  by Robert Parry

https://consortiumnews.com/2018/08/04/journalists-are-all-julian-assange/

"Though American journalists may understandably want to find some protective cover by pretending that Julian Assange is not like us, the reality is - whether we like it or not - we are all Julian Assange."

6079_Smith_W
Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

It doesn't matter that Assange may be an asshole. If he is prosecuted for publishing government secrets, that is a threat to all journalists.

6079_Smith_W

Yes, but that article is eight years old, and Assange is just as proprietary about stuff that he stole. So no, he isn't a journalist, nor really a friend of the institution. And journalists have been fighting that fight long before he came on the scene.

And frankly, it depends on the secret. When you consider the activists whose lives he has endangered for no reason, and the fact that some of these leaks pose a serious threat to diplomats being able to do their jobs, this is a bit more complex than just poking governments (and selectively so) in the eye. Again, he is not helping anyone.

 

 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

I probably don't like Assange any more than you do, but I see no legal distinction between what he has done with Wikileaks, and the publication of the Pentagon Papers by the NYT. If the first is to be considered a crime, then so should the second be.

WWWTT

BEWARE! Ecuador I believe is the largest country outside the US that has completely adopted the US dollar! 

I have also read rumors that wikileaks may actually be a CIA front?

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/03/01/rt-accidentally-busts-assange-a...

I'm not sure about this but I will keep an open mind

NDPP

Reflections on WikiLeaks, Spycatcher and Freedom of the Press (and podcast)

https://web.archive.org/web/20120323181534/http://www.malcolmturnbull.co...

"It is unacceptable in our democratic society that there should be a restraint on the publication of information relating to government when the only vice of that information is that it enables the public to discuss, review and criticise government action."

Malcolm Turnbull, Prime Minister of Australia (2011)

6079_Smith_W

I guess Turnbull's words don't apply when it concerns giving journalists free access to their concentration camps on Manus and Nauru Island.

Never mind that it is a bit of boilerplate, with a clear reference to "vices" that fall outside of what he thinks should be free and open.

 

WWWTT

Michael Moriarity wrote:

It doesn't matter that Assange may be an asshole. If he is prosecuted for publishing government secrets, that is a threat to all journalists.

Are they really secrets? Are they good secrets? Are they useful secrets? Or are they scare stories?

How does one actually use these so called secrets that wikileaks has provided?

I have yet to read anything of any real use that I may myself utilize. Now possibly Apple or Samsung or any other hi tech company may develop their tech so as to prevent it from being used as a spy weapon (vault 7). But really, the only way to prevent your iphone or emails from betraying you is to simply not use hi tech for something you may feel is sensitive if it went public or if the government found out.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Reflections on WikiLeaks

More correctly, "Reflections on Reflections on Wikileaks" seeing as this was from 2011 and I assume is only accessible via "The Wayback Machine".

Quote:
It is unacceptable in our democratic society that there should be a restraint on the publication of information relating to government when the only vice of that information is that it enables the public to discuss, review and criticise government action.

Well, the other "vice" of it is all the irrelevant stuff that ends up in the info "dump" -- stuff that if the government were to release it would be considered a very grave and actionable violation of the very privacy laws that we presumably hold dear.

You can't just say "well, in amongst these million pages of personal e-mails are a few nuggets of truth that should interest the populace".  Fucking hire an editor.

Quote:
It doesn't matter that Assange may be an asshole.

He's the bastard child of Roman Polanski and the iCloud hack that shared Jennifer Lawrence's junk with the world.

both of them wrote:
I don't believe that what I did was a crime, and I don't want to go to jail, and nobody will promise me that I won't go to jail, so I'll just be hiding out here and enjoying your admiration from afar.

NDPP

What is WikiLeaks?

https://wikileaks.org/About.html

"We open Governments. To determine the truth of our statements, simply look at the evidence."

 

List of Materials Published by WikiLeaks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_material_published_by_WikiLeaks

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

WWWTT wrote:

Michael Moriarity wrote:

It doesn't matter that Assange may be an asshole. If he is prosecuted for publishing government secrets, that is a threat to all journalists.

Are they really secrets? Are they good secrets? Are they useful secrets? Or are they scare stories?

How does one actually use these so called secrets that wikileaks has provided?

I have yet to read anything of any real use that I may myself utilize. Now possibly Apple or Samsung or any other hi tech company may develop their tech so as to prevent it from being used as a spy weapon (vault 7). But really, the only way to prevent your iphone or emails from betraying you is to simply not use hi tech for something you may feel is sensitive if it went public or if the government found out.

What Assange will likely be prosecuted for, and what I think is very important that the public have access to, are the documents given to Wikileaks by Chelsea Manning, exposing the numerous war crimes of the U.S. in Iraq and Afghanistan. The stuff from the 2016 campaign is rather meh, I agree, but the only way to permit the important one is to also permit the less important one. Drafting a law that would adequately distinguish between the 2 is, in my opinion, impossible.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
List of Materials Published by WikiLeaks

It would be much more interesting to see a list of materials that they could have published but didn't, and didn't acknowledge not publishing.

6079_Smith_W

@ Michael

Well Manning herself paid the price for that. As for whatever might happen to Assange (since it really is speculation at this point) he is so tainted in various ways that that tying it to that one thing is a bit absurd.

As absurd as presuming he is the poster boy for worldwide oppression of journalists, when he isn't one, has done quite a bit to actively undermine them, and is largely responsible for where he is right now. 

And that there are enough real journalists who have paid a much higher price.

I know I have posted this before. Maybe it is worth reading again:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/sep/18/julian-assange-wik...

 

6079_Smith_W
WWWTT

MM wrote

What Assange will likely be prosecuted for, and what I think is very important that the public have access to, are the documents given to Wikileaks by Chelsea Manning, exposing the numerous war crimes of the U.S. in Iraq and Afghanistan. The stuff from the 2016 campaign is rather meh, I agree, but the only way to permit the important one is to also permit the less important one. Drafting a law that would adequately distinguish between the 2 is, in my opinion, impossible.

Ok fair enough Michael, thanks for furthering your position here.

However, the same could be said if wikileaks was actually a CIA front. They may very well allow a few tidbits that are true and damning to win some credibility and trust, then use  wikileaks to misdirect and achive their own goals.

Either way, just like the Russiagate thread, this is really a bunch of stuff that can never really be proven or disproven despite how hard anyone from any position may try. Hence the hundreds of comments with no conclusion.

6079_Smith_W

Another good piece about some of the results of Assange's work, and what is probably a more relevant question.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/protect-whistleblowers-or-y...

bekayne

NDPP wrote:

What is WikiLeaks?

https://wikileaks.org/About.html

"We open Governments. To determine the truth of our statements, simply look at the evidence."

"We open governments. Which governments? That's up to us."

NDPP

The Target is Not Only Julian Assange It's WikiLeaks and Free Journalism (and podcast)

http://archives.kpfa.org/data/20180803-Fri1700.mp3

Dennis Bernstein and Randy Credico interview the legendary John Pilger

PS No surprise to see the usual suspects cheerleading the oppressor here. They almost always do. The Canadian liberal left is known for it. 

6079_Smith_W

Oh give me a fucking break NDPP.

People have been forced into exile, others tortured, and many more are still at risk because that arrogant jerk thinks if others get in the way of his vendettas they deserve it.

This isn't just about his attitude. It is about him being actively complicit with those oppressors. Or maybe you think it's just fake news, and everyone who has had enough of his shenanigans is one of your "cheerleaders". 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/oct/12/anonymous-distances-i...

... or to use his dismissal of his accusers, a "radical feminist conspiracy" and "lesbians".

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jun/29/laura-poitras-wikileaks-fil...

 

 

 

NDPP

Wikileaks Founder 'Essentially in Solitary Confinement for At Least Past Four Months' (and vid)

https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1026754785947467776

"The comments on this [thread]/video are disgusting. People are falling all over themselves to help cheer for the slow-motion lynching of a journalist whose arrest is being aggressively pursued by the Trump administration they claim to oppose."

 

VIPS Plead For Humanitarian Asylum For Julian Assange [*MUST READ*]

https://t.co/UXV7H0xUOV

"On July 12, 2018, the Organization of American States' Inter-American Court of Human Rights (IACHE) sent out a ruling that was virtually unnoticed by US news media. The IACHR found 'it is the duty of nations to allow for the passage of successful asylum seekers from embassies to the mainland territory of the state that has granted an individual asylum.' 'It is imperative', the ruling states, 'that Assange is allowed to make the safe passage to Ecuador demanded by the Court as his physical and mental state conditions have been described as deteriorating rapidly. If, nevertheless, UK authorities insist on arresting Assange, 'the British government will have wantonly failed to uphold Assange's rights as a legitimate receiver of asylum by Ecuador.'

The impacts of prosecuting Assange would ripple around the world as officials in other governments followed the most powerful nation's example. With no means of holding governments accountable despotism would proliferate..."

josh

Michael Moriarity wrote:

I probably don't like Assange any more than you do, but I see no legal distinction between what he has done with Wikileaks, and the publication of the Pentagon Papers by the NYT. If the first is to be considered a crime, then so should the second be.

Yes, to point.  The New York Times did not conspire with Daniel Ellsburg to take the Pentagon Papers out of the building where it was classified top secret so that it could publish them.  If it could be shown that Assange knew ahead of time of the hacking of the Democrats and agreed to publish the stolen e-mails, that would be a different story.

6079_Smith_W

Freedom of Information Activist Emma Best just published her cache of 11,000 twitter messages between Wikileaks and others. Some of these tweets were reported on about six months ago, but now they are all available:

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/3kyv9n/activist-publishes-110...

https://emma.best/2018/07/29/11000-messages-from-private-wikileaks-chat-...

“The idea was that the attitudes and behavior of WL [Wikileaks] behind closed doors is relevant, especially their coordination of PR, propaganda and troll ops through assets that are public supporters but not publicly known to take cues from WL,” Emma Best, the freedom of information activist, told Motherboard in a Twitter direct message.

The DMs concern a particular group chat between the official Wikileaks account and several supporters. In the chat—dubbed “Wikileaks +10” due to number of participants—Wikileaks would coordinate smear campaigns against the group’s rivals, including journalists, according to the DMs. The official Wikileaks account, widely believed to be controlled by Assange, also pushed antisemitic and transphobic messages, according to the messages.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

josh wrote:

If it could be shown that Assange knew ahead of time of the hacking of the Democrats and agreed to publish the stolen e-mails, that would be a different story.

More precisely, if it could be shown that Assange, or any mainstream journalist, took part in a criminal conspiracy to obtain information by illegal means, that person's ass would be in a sling, and no first amendment defense would apply. Merely knowing that the source obtained the information illegally would not be enough.

NDPP

If Assange Leaves the Ecuadorian Embassy, What Next?

https://www.lawfareblog.com/if-assange-leaves-ecuadorian-embassy-what-next

"It's been 13 days since President Moreno arrived in the UK, without any reports that Assange had been turned over. Whether that means he's off the hook is unclear but here's what we know about the current state of play..."

WWWTT

Thanks for the link NDPP!

I'm going to speculate that this Assange character is going to walk, fast and quite! I still believe that he's a front for the CIA or some other American intelligence organization. I believe he's not seeking protection from the US/UK, he is seeking protection, but who it is from is still not clear to me?

6079_Smith_W

Here's your laugh of the day. The U.S. Senate has asked Assange to testify at the Russia Inquiry.

Assange’s legal team is “considering the offer but testimony must conform to a high ethical standard,” WikiLeaks wrote on Twitter.

... because he's all about the ethics, of course.

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/400882-wikileaks-says-senate-pan...

NDPP

HRW: UK Should Reject Extraditing Julian Assange to the US

https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/06/19/uk-should-reject-extraditing-julian-...

"The publication of leaks, particularly leaks that show potential government wrong-doing or human rights abuse - is a critical function of a free press in a democratic society."

 

"Democratic Senators who demanded today that Julian Assange's asylum be revoked in violation of international law. Remember them."

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1027192619493994496

voice of the damned

I thought HRW were the bad guys.  At least according to beloved progressive media outlets...

https://tinyurl.com/yay7r868

 

 

josh

Depends on who they are standing up for, apparently.

6079_Smith_W

 

Evidently that applies to the U.N. too, and apparently Wikileaks itself. WWWTT's Veterans Today article doesn't surprise me at all.

Really, it is about who is doing the criticizing, and why. And really, honest criticism is not the point. Getting people polarized, fighting each other, and distrusting everything is the goal.

 

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Politics makes for strange bedfellows.

In other news, AnimalLiberationFront thinks I should pay less property tax.  They are wise, and we have much to learn from them, until they start talking about bacon again.

NDPP

Canada: Election 'Meddler'

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/832344632352608256

"UK, Australia, Canada & NZ tasked by CIA to use human spies (HUMINT) to penetrate last French presidential election. " (2012)

 

Former MI6 Spy v WikiLeaks Editor: Who Really Deserves First Amendment Protection?

https://on.rt.com/9d09

"He is an editor running a high tech publishing outfit that has caused embarrassment to governments and corporations around the world, not just America. If he can be prosecuted for publishing information very much in the public interest, then all the legacy media feeding off the Wikileaks hydrant of information are equally vulnerable."

NDPP

#Unity4J Online Vigil in Support of Julian Assange 4.0, Sept 1, 2018 (and vid)

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1OwxWWWWvlVxQ

@50:00 Joe Lauria, Margaret Kimberley, Ray McGovern and more...

NDPP

Is the Mueller Investigation Preparing to Indict WikiLeaks Editor Julian Assange?

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/09/01/assa-s01.html

"...Those who have joined the denunciations of WikiLeaks for publishing the DNC and Podesta emails, generally do not spell out their political standpoint because it is utterly reactionary. The entire argument that Julian Assange assisted Donald Trump is predicated on the assumption that American workers and young people - should have been denied information about the character of Clinton and her campaign, and in a state of ignorance, elected her as president of the US.

Every political and media organization that either repeats the slander that WikiLeaks operated on behalf of Russia and Trump, or remains silent as Julian Assange is vilified and set up for criminal indictment, deserves the utter contempt and condemnation of all defenders of democratic rights and freedom of speech..."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Is the Mueller Investigation Preparing to Indict WikiLeaks Editor Julian Assange?

It seems that WSWS can't actually wait for things to happen so they can get all cranky and conspiratorial about what happened, so they like to take readers on a journey of imagination -- "Is Hillary Clinton going to torture Assange to death??" -- so they can have something to get up on their hind legs about.

Funny how none of their grave predictions ever seem to come true.  Or did Ecuador kick Assange out and I didn't hear about it?

bekayne

NDPP wrote:

Is the Mueller Investigation Preparing to Indict WikiLeaks Editor Julian Assange?

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/09/01/assa-s01.html

"...Those who have joined the denunciations of WikiLeaks for publishing the DNC and Podesta emails, generally do not spell out their political standpoint because it is utterly reactionary. The entire argument that Julian Assange assisted Donald Trump is predicated on the assumption that American workers and young people - should have been denied information about the character of Clinton and her campaign, and in a state of ignorance, elected her as president of the US.

Every political and media organization that either repeats the slander that WikiLeaks operated on behalf of Russia and Trump, or remains silent as Julian Assange is vilified and set up for criminal indictment, deserves the utter contempt and condemnation of all defenders of democratic rights and freedom of speech..."

But this is fine

American workers and young people - should have been denied information about the character of Trump and his campaign, and in a state of ignorance, elected him as president of the US.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

The defense of anyone telling half the truth will always be "but it wasn't a lie!"

Speaking of "this is fine", Wikileaks seems to have done exactly what everyone accuses the MSM of:  telling the truths that help their side, and withholding the truths that don't.  But if it punished "Hitlery" Clinton, it's fine.

Mobo2000

From the article posted at #469

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/protect-whistleblowers-or-y...

"Whistleblowers aren’t going to go away quietly. Neither, if we want corruption and government overreach exposed, should we desire them to. More fundamentally, it won’t be a level playing field of disclosure with open, pluralistic Western democracies facing more leaks than authoritarian states that are far more likely to use mass population surveillance or to commit war crimes. This will feed the myth of the whistleblower as a foreign agent. Yet unless we protect those who whistleblow in the public interest, groups that operate outside the normal boundaries of the law such as Wikileaks will flourish.

Julian Assange has simultaneously proven why whistleblowing is so important, but also why we need to encourage traditional media sources including newspapers (with professional journalists) to handle this information. Whistleblowing may be highly imperfect, but unless we safeguard it, we risk a future where the government knows a lot about its citizens but its citizens find their government cloaked in secrecy. "

There are two problems with this conclusion, to me.

1.   Nonwestern authoritarian governments are not "more likely" to mass surveil their populations and commit war crimes than western democracies.    The ability of western democracies to surveil their populations and commit war crimes is vastly superior, and the major technological developments in weaponry and mass surveillance have been developed, capitalized and mass produced by western democracies.    Western democracies don't face more leaks because we are more lenient of whistleblowers, we just have more to leak, because we are fed more lies.    

2.   The professional journalist has always been and is under increasing corporate pressure and control.    I don't think the publishing of the Pentagon Papers was an event of the same category as what wikileaks has done.    The Pentagon papers were released in bits over years, only fully published in June 2011.   How much of the content was in the public's interest, what conclusions to draw, were vetted, shaped and polished in the editorial offices of the New York Times.   This is the prefered route of the author.   Perhaps if the internet was around back then, a 70's wikileaks would have been dumped online in their entirety, and the public would have had the chance to draw their own, directly informed conclusions.   

I agree in principle with some of the concerns expressed by Smith and others around wikileaks revealing the indenties of activists or opposition groups within authoritarian repressive countries (although I am skeptical of some of the specifics).  But I don't see the other option, as the article linked above, of traditional media outlets redacting/vetting as practical or even plausible today, especially when the material being considered is urgent, or might be seen as benefiting a foreign enemy.

NDPP

The Torture of Assange: A Blight on the US Justice System (and vid)

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50172.htm

"Wikileaks founder and chief editor Julian Assange has been in solitary confinement in the Ecuadorian embassy for more than six years. His 'crime'? Publishing things the government does not want us to know. It is past time for Assange to be freed."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Ecuador is torturing him now??

NDPP

Ellsberg: 'Assange Can't Be Tried Fairly Under Espionage Act Because He is a Journalist' (and vid)

http://21stcenturywire.com/2018/09/05/ellsberg-assange-cant-be-tried-fai...

"Pentagon Papers whistleblower  Daniel Ellsberg talks about the possibility of Julian Assange being tried in the US under the Espionage Act..."

NDPP

#Unity4J: State of the Movement Address III 

https://youtu.be/RBvdQHTO3IY

Join Suzie for a live update and discussion about progress and plans...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

That's super.  But can we revisit some earlier claims and update them?

-  Did Ecuador kick Assange out, as claimed several months ago in post #433?

-  Did the Mueller Investigation indict Assange as predicted a couple of weeks ago in post #487?

Somehow we never seem to revisit these prognostications when they fail to materialize.  Where's the collective sigh of relief?

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture
NDPP

Poor Standards at AP...

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1041681839361024002

"Mr Assange did not apply for such a visa at any time or author the document. The source is document fabricator and paid FBI informant Sigurdur Thordarson who was sentenced to prison for fabricating docs impersonating Assange, multiple frauds and pedophilia."

 

"Amnesty International releases statement denouncing attempts to extradite Julian Assange to United States, joining UN Human Rights, Human Rights Watch and the Inter-American Court of Human Rights."

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1038346173399093248

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
The source is document fabricator and paid FBI informant Sigurdur Thordarson who was sentenced to prison for fabricating docs impersonating Assange, multiple frauds and pedophilia.

This left out "... and former WikiLeaks helper bee".

Ironic that sex crimes should be the downfall of a WikiLeaks consigliere.  Is there something about keeping secrets that means you can't keep it in your pants?  And why didn't he flee to Ecuador and begin pretending he's being tortured even though he's free to leave any time?

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

"Amnesty International releases statement denouncing attempts to extradite Julian Assange to United States, joining UN Human Rights, Human Rights Watch and the Inter-American Court of Human Rights."

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1038346173399093248

Amnesty and Human Rights Watch? So George Soros supports Assange now?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I'm glad those corrupt organizations outed themselves before anyone could support them.

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