Wonderful news about Postmedia

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NorthReport

k's correct as most everyone here knows he is.

6079_Smith_W

kropotkin1951 wrote:

6079_Smith_W wrote:

And what are you saying there, k? There are no conservatives in B.C.?

Gee where did you get that from anything I wrote. Jesus Mary and Joesph

From what you said in the previous post. And that is why I ASKED for clarification - because I wasn't sure what your point was.

And I wouldn't say none of them are into real journalism. Sorry, but it is real journalism, whether we agree with their politics or not. The problem is, as you say, that they are cheap and greedy and don't know well enough to reinvest in their business.

And lagatta, it may not be what you or I think are pressing issues, or even an accurate reflection of reality. My point was that they do have to appeal to a broad enough spectrum to be able to make a financial go of it, and have a base of readers to sell to their advertisers.

I mean, to use an extreme example, People Magazine isn't one of the most successful publications in North America because of their social conscience. But they definitely play to the centre in a way that someone with a free website does not, which was my point.

 

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Centre is what to you 6079? When you define the centre as the worst propoganda that our corporate state thows at us the term becomes meaningless. If the NP is a centrist paper then Harper is a centrist politician.

People magazine has nothing to do with journalism so why you use them as an example is beyond me. They don't play to the "centre" they play to many peoples desire to not have to think about the world they live in. That too plays a role in the neocon world since the last thing our corporate masters would want is a population that is thinking about the real world.

6079_Smith_W

Centre - in terms of business model - is where the money is. And if nothing else it does show where a wide range of the populace are at. And accurate or not, it is important information that people - especially those who want to change things - ignore at their peril.

Fact is, the Sun chain is doing a better job of playing to it even though in terms of news coverage they are further to the right than the Post. And it is also why I don't think the threat to newspapers is primarily  to do with how good a job they are doing at fair news coverage.

Just an example: Notice who he's playing to, who he is painting as enemies and rubes, and how his core argument about Harper (and about the public) isn't all that different from what you or I might make:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/10/25/michael-den-tandt-harper-...

 

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

So your definition of centre is a completely non political one. That explains why I couldn't figure out what you were trying to say. Maybe you should use a different word since we talk politics around here so much. Given the estimates I've read about how lucrative some things are it seems to me that by your definition hard core porn and gambling on the internet are centrist.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Just an example: Notice who he's playing to, who he is painting as enemies and rubes, and how his core argument about Harper (and about the public) isn't all that different from what you or I might make:

That is called a bait and switch. Smythe and Palmer on this coast play the game extremely well. Between elections especially a couple of years away from one they write columns that are close to being fair. However when the election is on they do not write the same style of columns. They get to use their cache as "fair" to prove that the NDP or COPE are not mainstream.  Its a great technique but its strange that you haven't figured it out yet.

NorthReport

That's what is known as a red herring and utter nonsense!

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Not non-political, k. But surely you realize that there are plenty of people who consider the press a gang of left-wing fanatics - just as Mórríghan

6079_Smith_W

Not non-political, k. But surely you realize that there are plenty of people who consider the press a gang of left-wing fanatics - just as Mórríghan said. I'm not saying you're wrong, but the Timmies crowd have a fair argument too.

And not to shock you, but those sunshine pics and lotteries ARE everywhere. Perhaps I should ask what your definition of centre is.

NorthReport

Screw Canada's mainstream press - the sooner they don't exist the better off we will be!
As Europe erupts over US spying, NSA chief says government must stop media

With General Alexander calling for NSA reporting to be halted, US and UK credibility as guardians of press freedom is crushed

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/25/europe-erupts-nsa-s...

-------------------

530

6079_Smith_W

Sorry about the glitch, but wait until I finish, at least.

So they're all fucked in the head, and you're completely in the right. That's kind of what I'm getting at with the dangers of just looking to media that does nothing but reinforce your own opinion.

(edit)

And NR, I posted Alexander's interview already, with the comment that the two of you agree on at least something.

 

NorthReport

Try reading some of what Greenwald is writing about as he does have a point or two to make.

NorthReport

It's over, and 9/11 has been used basically to end freedom of the press if it ever really existed at all which somehow I doubt it ever did.

The perfect epitaph for establishment journalism

'If MI5 warns that this is not in the public interest who am I to disbelieve them?', says the former editor of The Independent

Glenn Greenwald on security and liberty The perfect epitaph for establishment journalism

'If MI5 warns that this is not in the public interest who am I to disbelieve them?', says the former editor of The Independent

  Top secret stamp Some journalists view this as an inviolable decree that may not be questioned or defied Photograph: Alamy

Like many people, I've spent years writing and speaking about the lethal power-subservient pathologies plaguing establishment journalism in the west. But this morning, I feel a bit like all of that was wasted time and energy, because this new column by career British journalist Chris Blackhurst - an executive with and, until a few months ago, the editor of the UK daily calling itself "The Independent" - contains a headline that says everything that needs to be said about the sickly state of establishment journalism:

In other words, if the government tells me I shouldn't publish something, who am I as a journalist to disobey? Put that on the tombstone of western establishment journalism. It perfectly encapsulates the death spiral of large journalistic outlets.

Lest you think that the headline does not fairly represent the content of the column, Blackhurst, in explaining why he would never have allowed his newspaper to publish any of the documents from NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, actually wrote:

If the security services insist something is contrary to the public interest, and might harm their operations, who am I (despite my grounding from Watergate onwards) to disbelieve them?"

Most people, let alone journalists, would be far too embarrassed to admit they harbor such subservient, obsequious sentiments. It's one thing to accord some deference or presumption of good will to political officials, but the desire to demonstrate some minimal human dignity, by itself, would preclude most people from publicly confessing that they have willingly sacrificed all of their independent judgment and autonomy to the superior, secret decrees of those who wield the greatest power. Chris Blackhurst has obviously liberated himself from these inhibitions, though not entirely, as he infuses insincere caveats like this into his paean to the virtues of obedience: "I'm cynical about officialdom, having seen too many cover-ups and appalling injustices carried out in our name." One would think that most journalists (particularly those who edit a newspaper called "The Independent") would want to maintain at least a pretense of independent thought and thus refrain from acknowledging such cringe-inducing things about themselves.

Still, what Blackhurst is revealing here is indeed a predominant mindset among many in the media class. Journalists should not disobey the dictates of those in power. Once national security state officials decree that what they are doing should be kept concealed from the public - once they pound their mighty "SECRET" stamp onto their behavior - it is the supreme duty of all citizens, including journalists, to honor that and never utter in public what they have done. Indeed, it is not only morally wrong, but criminal, to defy these dictates. After all, "who am I to disbelieve them?"

That this mentality condemns - and would render outlawed - most of the worthwhile investigative journalism over the last several decades never seems to occur to good journalistic servants like Blackhurst. National security state officials also decreed that it would "not be in the public interest" to report on the Pentagon Papers, or the My Lai massacre, or the network of CIA black sites in which detainees were tortured, or the NSA warrantless eavesdropping program, or the documents negating claims of Iraqi WMDs, or a whole litany of waste, corruption and illegality that once bore the "top secret" label. Indeed, one of the best reporters in the UK, Duncan Campbell, works for Blackhurst's newspaper, and he was arrested and prosecuted by the UK government in the 1970s for the "crime" of disclosing the existence of the GCHQ. When Blackhurst sees Campbell in the hallways, does he ask him: "who are you to have decided on your own to disclose that which UK officials had told you should remain concealed?"

The NSA reporting enabled by Snowden's whistleblowing has triggered a worldwide debate over internet freedom and privacy, reform movements in numerous national legislatures, multiple whistleblowing prizes for Snowden, and the first-ever recognition of just how pervasive and invasive is the system of suspicionless surveillance being built by the US and the UK. It does not surprise me that authoritarian factions, including (especially) establishment journalists, prefer that none of this reporting and debate happened and that we all instead remained blissfully ignorant about it. But it does still surprise me when people calling themselves "journalists" openly admit to thinking this way. But when they do so, they do us a service, as it lays so vividly bare just how wide the gap is between the claimed function of establishment journalists and the actual role they fulfill.

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/14/independent-epitaph...

6079_Smith_W

Geez... one article (that included a personal swipe) in a paper that is in direct competition for their market means the end of journalism?

Not too long ago it was The Independent rightly or wrongly pointing the finger at The Guardian:

http://paidcontent.org/2013/08/23/with-guardian-facing-reporting-restric...

I think Glenn doth protest too much.

 

Mórríghain

NorthReport wrote:

That's what is known as a red herring and utter nonsense!

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Not non-political, k. But surely you realize that there are plenty of people who consider the press a gang of left-wing fanatics - just as Mórríghan

No NR, tis neither a red herring or nonsense. Tis a valid comment about how some people view news media; what tint are their glasses, which is what this thread is really about.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Given the opening posts I thought it was about Post Media's supposed financial problems. But we don't mind allowing you a little thread drift into cheerleading for the status quo in our MSM. 

6079_Smith_W

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Given the opening posts I thought it was about Post Media's supposed financial problems. But we don't mind allowing you a little thread drift into cheerleading for the status quo in our MSM. 

Actually, k, I am one of those here trying to keep the focus on the fact that this comes down to financial problems, rather than divine wrath.

janfromthebruce

Make no mistake that the decline of print media has results in job losses across various sectors. Take the pulp and paper industry that saw many go under or reduce the production of paper. So in Northern Ontario many good jobs were lost in this sector and devastated the north.

Mórríghain

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Given the opening posts I thought it was about Post Media's supposed financial problems. But we don't mind allowing you a little thread drift into cheerleading for the status quo in our MSM. 

I could see how you might come to that conclusion despite the original post's opening remark, "The wonderful news is that they lost 153.8 million dollars last year, and are now being forced to sell their assets. Hopefully they will soon be gone." This comment could be paraphrased as, "Ding dong, the witch may soon be dead".

You will allow me a little leeway, how nice. As to cheerleading the status quo, perhaps. I believe diversity in news media means having left wing and right wing voices, and tis a good thing. You may believe that all of Canada's news media is conservative just like the right claims our news media is controlled by the left, save their darling Sun News. I don't live in a black and white world so I don't believe our media is all one or the other, nor should it ever be.

lagatta

I do wonder what you are doing at this site. Yes, as long as you are not banned, you have a right to be here, and there is no "party line", but this is a progressive board. I don't live in a black and white world either (lots of colours, and nuances), but I live in a world where I know which side I'm on.

NorthReport

Who do you think you are kidding?

Go back to sleep and please stop boring us with your nonsense.

Mórríghain wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Given the opening posts I thought it was about Post Media's supposed financial problems. But we don't mind allowing you a little thread drift into cheerleading for the status quo in our MSM. 

I could see how you might come to that conclusion despite the original post's opening remark, "The wonderful news is that they lost 153.8 million dollars last year, and are now being forced to sell their assets. Hopefully they will soon be gone." This comment could be paraphrased as, "Ding dong, the witch may soon be dead".

You will allow me a little leeway, how nice. As to cheerleading the status quo, perhaps. I believe diversity in news media means having left wing and right wing voices, and tis a good thing. You may believe that all of Canada's news media is conservative just like the right claims our news media is controlled by the left, save their darling Sun News. I don't live in a black and white world so I don't believe our media is all one or the other, nor should it ever be.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I believe all our media is owned and operated by and on behalf of corporations.  There is no major diffeence between any of our big city dailies and they often all run the same content. Those papers began decimating their newsrooms more than a decade ago and the results is tripe and tripe again. 

You obviously have a very different definition of left wing if you think any of Canada's daily newspapers could be considered left wing. Supporting Trudeau as the Star does is not left wing IMO. The Liberals are not a left wing party so when conservative voters complain that the press is liberal they are just pissed that the elite including the media moguls in this country normally prefer the Liberal party as the natural governing party.  To accept your idea that there are left and right papers is too accept that the Liberal party and their "ideology" is somehow left wing.  That is not a lie that most people on this board  fall for.

NorthReport

Mórríghain

Do you know who the enemy of the people are in Canada?

You got it, Canada's mainstream press.

6079_Smith_W

Wow.

So to get back on topic, what does any of this political tubthumping and grave dancing have to do with the reality of Postmedia's financial downturn?

 

 

 

 

Mórríghain

lagatta wrote:

I do wonder what you are doing at this site. Yes, as long as you are not banned, you have a right to be here, and there is no "party line", but this is a progressive board. I don't live in a black and white world either (lots of colours, and nuances), but I live in a world where I know which side I'm on.

Are you saying that I'm something other than progressive because I think diversity in media is a good thing? Wow, pretty tight ship here. I am here to participate in discussions on issues that interest me, not to cheerlead a particular political philosophy regardless of where that cheerleading could take me. If that puts me at odds with other people what's wrong with that? Why would I be banned? In this discussion I'm not touting the virtues of a conservative press, I'm touting the virtues of a diverse press—I would think that would be generally accepted here. Seems I was wrong.

lagatta

Nobody here has advocated banning any medium. But rabble was started as an alternative, progressive voice in support of social movements, as opposed to the existing corporate media. I was there at the counter-summit in Québec when it as launched.

6079_Smith_W

@ lagatta

Well wishing the demise of publications isn't far off.

As for not supporting progressive voices, what does that have to do with it? How are the two mutually exclusive?

As I said upthread, this is not and never was a zero-sum game. If Postmedia shuttered its doors tomorrow it would have no positive effect at all on Rabble or any other progressive news outlet. In fact, I'd say the opposite is true - for a number of reasons I already mentioned, and many more.

 

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Mórríghain wrote:

In this discussion I'm not touting the virtues of a conservative press, I'm touting the virtues of a diverse press—I would think that would be generally accepted here. Seems I was wrong.

Actually you miss the point which is there is no diversity in the MSM newspapers. They all have the same ideology and that is neoconservatism. There is no middle just one end of the political spectrum. The reason I dont care if Post Media fails is because I hope that real journalism might arise from the ashes. 

Most of us here are in favour of diversity in the press that is why we don't like the present alignment.

quizzical

kropotkin1951 wrote:
Mórríghain wrote:
In this discussion I'm not touting the virtues of a conservative press, I'm touting the virtues of a diverse press—I would think that would be generally accepted here. Seems I was wrong.

Actually you miss the point which is there is no diversity in the MSM newspapers. They all have the same ideology and that is neoconservatism. There is no middle just one end of the political spectrum. The reason I dont care if Post Media fails is because I hope that real journalism might arise from the ashes. 

Most of us here are in favour of diversity in the press that is why we don't like the present alignment.

yup yup yup........

 

6079_Smith_W
NorthReport

Postmedia and union talks break down over contracting out of printing

 

http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/2013/11/26/Postmedia-Union-Talks/

NorthReport

No tears are being shed in this corner as right-wing news outlets bite the dust.

Only the government wins as Postmedia goes dark in Ottawa

http://www.ctvnews.ca/ctv-news-channel/power-play-with-don-martin/only-t...

850

 

NorthReport

The reason there will no public outcry is that most, not all, but most journalists are just looking for their next pay cheque, so rather than do some serious investigative reporting are they just report how and what they are told by their bosses.

NorthReport

More good news about this right-wing garbage organization.

Hopefully there are lots and lots of writers and editors laid off, and that they are done soon.

Canadian publisher Postmedia Network reports increased losses, 9.1% decrease in revenue

http://www.talkingnewmedia.com/2014/04/10/canadian-publisher-postmedia-n...

NorthReport

Follow the Money, Part 4 -- Who owns the National Post?

It's no secret that Postmedia Network, publisher of theNational PostOttawa Citizen, Montreal GazetteCalgary HeraldEdmonton Journal,Vancouver Sun and other major Canadian dailies, is hemorrhaging money.

For the year ending August 2013, the company lost $154 million. And the bleeding continues. In the six months since, the company has lost an additional $37 million. Revenue from the company's traditional mainstay, print advertising, has tanked.

What isn't as well known is that during this downward spiral, Silver Point Capital, an American hedge fund, bought a 19 per cent stake in the company.

It joins Postmedia's largest shareholder, Golden Tree Asset Management, another American hedge fund. Golden Tree acquired its holding in Postmedia from the ashes of CanWest Global Communications, before the media company filed for creditor protection in 2009. The debt owed to Golden Tree was turned into shares in Postmedia on CanWest's reorganization. Golden Tree boosted its holding in the company from 35 to 39 per cent after Silver Point bought its stake. That gives the two American companies 58 per cent ownership of Postmedia.

If you're wondering how a Canadian newspaper chain can be owned by foreign interests, especially by interests with little background in the news business, you're not alone. Postmedia must be designated as a Canadian publisher of Canadian newspapers under Section 19(1) of the Income Tax Act, or else its advertisers can't deduct from their profits the cost of their newspaper ads as a business expense. Under foreign ownership, Postmedia's advertising revenue would vanish.

Section 19(1) is a 60-year-old policy designed to ensure Canadian newspapers are owned by Canadians. But Postmedia CEO Paul Godfrey and clever corporate lawyers figured a way around it.

The Income Tax Act defines a Canadian publisher as one in which 75 per cent of its shares are owned or controlled by Canadians. But since the two hedge funds own nearly 60 per cent of the shares, the company fails this test.


http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/donald-gutstein/2014/04/follow-money-par...

lagatta

I've always wondered why the Pest and all have stayed afloat so long. They give that rag away in several places.

NorthReport

They are all basically garbage publications shoving right-wing propaganda down their reader's throats every chance they get. And their daily 24/7 dirty work is very effective as Canada, including Quebec, is a right-wing society.

NorthReport

Here's even more fantastic news about these crap right-wing rags they try to pass off as something useful for society. The sooner 99% of them are all gone the better.

The Decline of Newspapers Hits a Stunning Milestone

“The dramatic decline in newspaper ad revenues since 2000 has to be one of the most significant and profound Schumpeterian gales of creative destruction in the last decade, maybe in a generation,” Perry writes.

And yet, his graph might actually understate the horror of last year’s newspaper financials. The problem isn’t simply that growing digital ad dollars can’t replace disappearing print money fast enough; it’s that digital ad revenue is barely growing at all.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/04/28/decline_of_newspapers_hit...

NorthReport
DaveW

NorthReport wrote:

Here's even more fantastic news about these crap right-wing rags they try to pass off as something useful for society. The sooner 99% of them are all gone the better.

we past and present dues-paying members of the Newspaper Guild thank you for your insights

6079_Smith_W

That really is the end of an era:

Canada's oldest newspaper printing operation, since 1775. And it was the press which started it:

http://www2.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/archives/story.html?id=dfcc9...

onlinediscountanvils

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/quebecor-sells-175-sun-media-newspapers-... sells 175 Sun Media newspapers and websites to Postmedia[/url]

NorthReport

Postmedia could soon own almost every English newspaper in Canada.

What could possibly go wrong? 

http://www.thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/2014/10/06/Postmedia-could-own-every...

swallow swallow's picture

Born-again lefty sovereigntist Peladeau suddenly realizes he owns stable of anti-Quebec xenophobia. Oops, howd that happen? Better sell it to a slightly more polite xenophobic media empire. 

NorthReport

As Postmedia Withers, Is a Newspaper-less Vancouver Imminent?

Reinvention, even survival, of local dailies seems less likely with each quarterly report.

http://m.thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2015/02/03/Vancouver-Without-Newspapers/?...

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