Acknowledging Police Brutality Thread
May 24, 2010 - 2:42am
I am not sure where this should go, but I think that it is important that there is a place on babble to acknowledge the less public incidents of police brutality. We should be following their stories to see if police are held accountable and have these stories available for groups to politically engage.
To start, I found this story about Hamilton police roughing up the wrong person (who was very compliant) on a poorly calculated arrest from a link in the comments on the linchpin article in this thread:
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/activism/hating-capitalism-hate-crime
Ottawa officer punches suspect in video
Stupid headline on various levels, but I didn't write it...
Nothing special about this incident - it happens all the time - but new technology is allowing lots more to be captured and disseminated. See the video.
Chilean Police Arrest Afro-Chilean for Crossing the Street on a Red Light(in Spanish)
The bystanders are defending the arrested on grounds of racist detention - nobody is detained there for crossing the street on a red light.
How much footage is missing?
http://www.thestar.com/news/torontog20summit/article/951149--siu-reopens-g20-case-after-video-emerges
"I was disappointed. . . . I told them it was the police, there was no possible way any civilians did it," Fernandes said. "They had all ran past us. We were the only two standing there."
Fernandes said he alerted the SIU to a YouTube video of the incident on Feb. 8. Acting on a tip, the SIU tracked down the raw footage and received the higher quality images over the weekend, said spokesman Frank Phillips.
Fernandes had been watching a World Cup match at his home near Queen St. W. when his friends called him to check out the protests. He met them around 6 p.m., when people were beginning to take photos of a burned out police cruiser in the Queen and Spadina area.
In the next half hour, Fernandes watched from what he considered to be a safe distance as someone set a second cruiser on fire. Around the same time, police rushed toward the civilians who had gathered in the area, he said.
"I was standing with my back toward Spadina . . . talking to my friend and she suddenly said, 'Run!' " Fernandes recalled.
"I turned back to see why. . . . The next thing the cops threw me down . . . I fell straight onto my right shoulder."
The Reuters video shows a wincing Fernandes being dragged by officers.
He said after he was dragged out of the way, five to seven officers pressed their knees against his body to hold him down.
He said he was Tasered in the mouth when he was unable to move his injured arm from under his body to be handcuffed. He was later taken to the Eastern Ave. detention centre, but was not charged.
"All this time I was telling them the arm was broken and needed attention," he said. "I asked at least 10 to 15 officers to give me a sling or even a garbage bag. No one was ready to give it to me."
Fernandes said he was taken to hospital at 1:30 a.m.
The word acknowledging seems confusing...The public acknowledging? The controllers of the police state acknowledging? .the victim acknowledging? They will all look at police brutality differently.
Or just a simple place like "rcmp watch" is, except pertaining to local police gangs...actually the rcmp watch is a pretty good testament of how corrupt and rotten policing has become. Because if you know the rcmp are getting away with all kinds of crimes , you can bet the local police are getting away with even more.
Here, check out rcmp watch and weep:
http://www.rcmpwatch.com/
Maybe start a site and call it "The Pig Pen"
Only a handful of protesters arrested are facing criminal charges such as mischief and assault following Tuesday's anti-police brutality march in Montreal, a yearly event traditionally marked by vandalism and violence.
About a dozen people were fined for disturbing the peace, but the vast majority of people taken into police custody were fined under Quebec's Highway Safety Code and released a few hours later.
Although the protesters have a right to demonstrate, said Insp. Philippe Pichet, the Code stipulates people cannot walk in the street without a proper permit.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2011/03/16/police-protest-brutality.html
You can only stage a public protest against the excesses of power after receiving their permission to do so, although that alone is no guarantee against being re-victimized by police brutality, even while protesting against the same. The specter of citizens raising their voices in protest against an apparatus that refuses to listen not only speaks to the need for a certain degree of creative determination when confronting the brutality, but more importantly, anonymity as well. It's become obvious that they're not taking these street festivities seriously enough to change their behaviour. Concerned citizens cannot even comment on the situation from afar on the website of the public broadcaster.
This shit pisses me off so much. Police who abuse their authority and found guilty should be released from law enforcement. They are held to a MUCH higher standard than every day citizens. When a 220 pound cop punches out a 15 year old girl the cop needs to go- and spend some time in prison.
All cops are bad. If you volunteer to join an organization that routinely oppresses the poor and treats the wealthy with kit gloves then you are bad. Period. I don't wanna hear about protecting shit. Cops don't protect, they destroy. The only difference between first world cops and third world cops is their fear of repurcussion. Ever watch the cop glorification shows? The narrator gleefully explains how people are "brought under control" while the video shows knees to the back and punches to the face. That is the true face of "justice", a punch in the face.
Why do most cops and their families only associate with other cops and their families? Because we all hate them, and they are fully aware of that.
ode to a cop
I wake up this morning,
and strap on my gun,
is this the last day,
i will see the sun
This was certainly true of the police outfit I was employed at, but the same could be said of other occupations as well, except for the hate part I suppose. Not too many people hate electricians.
This was certainly true of the police outfit I was employed at, but the same could be said of other occupations as well, except for the hate part I suppose. Not too many people hate electricians.
Mock all you want, doesn't change facts. Most people hate cops. Might not say hate, but if the end result is isolation, then hate is appropo.
It's not mocking, but an acknowledgement of what you said based on personal experience. I'm certainly no friend of the swine, largely based on interacting with them professionally and socially, combined with the stuff I read about later on in life of course.
Fallout
It's not generally the people, it's the culture. It's what behaviours get rewarded and promoted.
I don't hate cops; I know one quite well. But he's near retirement (an early and very comfortable one), and didn't climb too high in the ranks.
It's become increasingly difficult to tell the difference these days LTJ. Certain individuals are drawn to certain occupations because of the attractiveness of power, however it doesn't apply in each and every case though.
It's true for far too many people, because that is all they've ever been shown by the cops.
I said why I stated that, if you cared to read. If you join the Nazi party then you're a fuckin Nazi, even if your a "nice guy/gal" at home.
I thought fallout was attempting to make an objective statement based on his sentence structure. How could I have been so wrong?
Well, on the whole, I think it's pretty difficult to argue against the point, Godwin's law notwithstanding.
What point would that be?
Fallout
It's not generally the people, it's the culture. It's what behaviours get rewarded and promoted.
I don't hate cops; I know one quite well. But he's near retirement (an early and very comfortable one), and didn't climb too high in the ranks.
Maybe I'm being misunderstood here. When I say "hate" I'm not talking about frothing emotional hatred. Didn't think I needed to clarify this, but anyway, I'm talking about the fact that cops and their families are isolated from the rest of society. That is a fact. Why are cops isolated from most of society? Because we hate them. Not every single human being, Caissa, but in general society hates cops. Why do we hate cops. Because they have the power to legally kill you in the name of a corrupt system of laws that favor the rich and opress the poor. We all sense this on a fundamental level and that is why cops are NOT on alot of peoples party guestlists.
So to clarify, I do not hate individual cops I'm merely observing the reality that exists for cops and putting forward the reason for their isolation. So yes I'm sure Officer Bob is a great fellow, but he is a representative of a system that can and will beat your ass down if you ask the wrong question. Remeber the guy who asked John Kerry if he was involved in the skull and crossbones? Next thing you heard from him was "Don't Taze me Bro!!!'.
I don`t wanna be a rabid idiot asshole who rails against the POlice. I understand their are individuals and some of those individuals are nice folk. Doesn`t change reality, and sometimes reality bites.
An excellent resolution.
I think that with the exception of individual one on one experiences, when we're talking about hating pigs, or pig this and that, its mostly the systemic power structures that are being referred to. Wholesale hatred of individuals whom we've never met is not a common theme typically bandied around for consideration among progressive/leftish circles. I also believe it borders on pointless semantics to suggest otherwise.
Hey Fallout, welcome to babble.
I think of individual citizens' relationships with the cops as related to bubbles or buffers of privileges.
Some have a lot, based on class, being white, speaking English as a first language, and other factors. For those folks it's harder, if not impossible, to see, understand or experience the police (both individuals and the institution they work in) as a constant violent threat. It's a societal teaching that the police are "good", at least to middle class white kids.
But some folks have little, and some have no buffers between them and a boot on the neck by the police. Literal or metaphorical. Once you experience the blatant and open hostility and violence (and constant threat of violence) of the police, or witness it, or have people you love experience it on a daily basis, the veneer of the institution of the police as "good" falls away.
One side can't understand why the other doesn't see the truth, and both stories can't be true.
As for the title of this thread, only those who don't "experience" police brutality on a daily or weekly basis need to "acknowledge" it. And only the worst, or more likely, randomly recorded, incidents get media play.
I think that with the exception of individual one on one experiences, when we're talking about hating pigs, or pig this and that, its mostly the systemic power structures that are being referred to. Wholesale hatred of individuals whom we've never met is not a common theme typically bandied around for consideration among progressive/leftish circles. I also believe it borders on pointless semantics to suggest otherwise.
Agree totally. It is also the arbitrary nature of their authority that creates the mistrust and apprehension. We all know too many instances of the police harassing some people for an illegal activity that they turn a blind eye too for others especially "others" with power and resources.
Hey Fallout, welcome to babble.
I think of individual citizens' relationships with the cops as related to bubbles or buffers of privileges.
Some have a lot, based on class, being white, speaking English as a first language, and other factors. For those folks it's harder, if not impossible, to see, understand or experience the police (both individuals and the institution they work in) as a constant violent threat. It's a societal teaching that the police are "good", at least to middle class white kids.
But some folks have little, and some have no buffers between them and a boot on the neck by the police. Literal or metaphorical. Once you experience the blatant and open hostility and violence (and constant threat of violence) of the police, or witness it, or have people you love experience it on a daily basis, the veneer of the institution of the police as "good" falls away.
One side can't understand why the other doesn't see the truth, and both stories can't be true.
As for the title of this thread, only those who don't "experience" police brutality on a daily or weekly basis need to "acknowledge" it. And only the worst, or more likely, randomly recorded, incidents get media play.
Whatever. I said what I said, if some people don't like it they can suck my balls.
Luckily, I actually liked what you said earlier.
you know, it took me like a minute before I got that, thanks for making me laugh slumberjack
Yeah I liked what you said too, Fallout.
Until post 26.
I'll just leave this thread to you boys then, in whatever activity you'd like to partake in, for fuck's sake.
Well, Fallout. You've caused quite a stir from only being a babbler a few days. Congratualtions. Sadly, telling other babblers they can "suck your balls" is totally unacceptable. It's not cute or funny or cavalier, it's sexist, abusive and rude. Speaking of privilege and buffer zones, I find it curious that you can be s against the institution of the police, rightly criticizing it as an apparatus based on oppression, violence and defence of the state, while appealing to the granddaddy oppressive institution of them all, patriarchy, to make your "point."
So, consider this a warning from a moderator: keep your language respectful and don't you dare silence women in a thread on police brutality again.
Maysie's analysis of systemic oppression should never be described as a 'whatever' Fallout.
Trust me Fallout if you have an open mind Maysie has a lot of knowledge and insight. I am sure there are countless others besides me who have read babble who have had their political and personal understanding of privilege enhanced and broadened by her awesome posts. Big city girl rocks.
Although I thought of running away I changed my mind.I don't like being caught in a non progressive stance and my first reaction is to fight back. I am ashamed by being 'outed' as a non progressive, with respect to women. The ultimate test for progressive wannabes I guess. As far as Maysies post, I was dissmissive because it frankly matters little to me the why`s and wherefore`s, I remain absolute in my conviction that all cops are bad.
I predict you will soon have a fallout with this board.
Maysie's post was quite supportive of your point of view actually. The why's and wherefore's are what make this place what it is, as are the occasional trips to the schoolmaster's office. Some of us are more familiar with the office interior than others, but that's not due to any fault of theirs.
I predict you will soon have a fallout with this board.
I see you are hostile to me because of my stance in this thread. So be it, I will not change that. But how can I say such things, police officers are people with family and they are our neighbors. They go to accident scenes and arrest the bad guys. They eat Timmies and watch the Simpsons at home with thier kids.
But they volunteered to be the shock troop for an inherintly unjust system. They will shoot you if told to. They will taze you if told to. I have no sympathy for these people and even less for sympathizers.
And again, I am sorry for being dismissive of babblers posts, I will sincerly try to do better.
Not that you give a shit, Fallout, but I agree with you.
Not that either of you care, but I disagree with both of you.
ETA: I'm not hostile to you fallout. I just think your hostility towards Babblers if it continues will land you a suspnesion. Hey, I even got a one day suspension for telling a fellow Babbler to 'fuck off!"
ETFA: Babblers who tell others to "fuck off" derve a one day suspension, just in case I wasn't clear above.
Why for that particular word Caissa, and not for moron, idiot, butthead, etc?
Hey Fallout, welcome to babble.
I think of individual citizens' relationships with the cops as related to bubbles or buffers of privileges.
Some have a lot, based on class, being white, speaking English as a first language, and other factors. For those folks it's harder, if not impossible, to see, understand or experience the police (both individuals and the institution they work in) as a constant violent threat. It's a societal teaching that the police are "good", at least to middle class white kids.
But some folks have little, and some have no buffers between them and a boot on the neck by the police. Literal or metaphorical. Once you experience the blatant and open hostility and violence (and constant threat of violence) of the police, or witness it, or have people you love experience it on a daily basis, the veneer of the institution of the police as "good" falls away.
One side can't understand why the other doesn't see the truth, and both stories can't be true.
As for the title of this thread, only those who don't "experience" police brutality on a daily or weekly basis need to "acknowledge" it. And only the worst, or more likely, randomly recorded, incidents get media play.
I acknowledge police do fantastic things on a daily basis. They pull people from burning buildings, they stop assaults, whatever. As long as they take their orders from Paul Martin et al they are all corrupt. Crabs in a barrell.
I don't think I have used those words in relation to other Babblers, Slumberjack. I'll admit I have often thought them...
My point above was that my punishment was just. "waves at Maysie'
Is that like peas in a pod, except more painful to be in?
Not that either of you care, but I disagree with both of you.
ETA: I'm not hostile to you fallout. I just think your hostility towards Babblers if it continues will land you a suspnesion. Hey, I even got a one day suspension for telling a fellow Babbler to 'fuck off!"
ETFA: Babblers who tell others to "fuck off" derve a one day suspension, just in case I wasn't clear above.
How have I been hostile towards babbers? That is a false accusation. Quote me my hostile posts. Me thinks you don't like my cop hating views, come on Caissa be honest in your defence of those pigs.
Well, fallout since you asked telling people they could "suck your balls" in this thread and telling a Babbler to "fuck off" in another thread could be entered as evidence.
I see you like to practice reverse anthropomorphism.
Well, fallout since you asked telling people they could "suck your balls" in this thread and telling a Babbler to "fuck off" in another thread could be entered as evidence.
I see you like to practice reverse anthropomorphism.
Listen, I already acknowledge the ball sucking thing was wrong. As far as telling another babbler to fuck off.... maybe they deserved it at the time? I am attracted to babble because of similar points of views from alot of posters. Always have been. Simple as that.
I presume you are retracting that second sentence.
I presume you are retracting that second sentence.
Why would I. Your continued harrasment of me borders on well....harrasment.
And I thought we were having a friendly conversation.Silly me.
Bait and switch.
That's a wonderful book by Barbara Ehrenreich, Slumberjack. I recommend in highly.
Why would I. Your continued harrasment of me borders on well....harrasment.
Catchfire and I moderate babble. Our job is, among other things, to enforce babble policy (I strongly suggest you read this before posting again) and to ensure contributors treat each other with respect.
Believe it or not, you're being cut a fair bit of slack because you're a new member, and we want you to understand how things work here. A more experienced babbler would be dealt with more severely.
Telling other babblers to "fuck off", "fuck themselves" or "suck my balls" is considered a personal attack, which is a big no-no here. Such behavior will get you suspended and or banned from the site.
You can choose to understand how things work here (by becoming rabble members, BTW, we all agree to follow babble policy) and behave accordingly, or you are free to go elsewhere to discuss your views. Your choice.
And besides, such acrimony distracts us from the harmony we've managed to establish in the election threads.
Why would I. Your continued harrasment of me borders on well....harrasment.
Catchfire and I moderate babble. Our job is, among other things, to enforce babble policy (I strongly suggest you read this before posting again) and to ensure contributors treat each other with respect.
Believe it or not, you're being cut a fair bit of slack because you're a new member, and we want you to understand how things work here. A more experienced babbler would be dealt with more severely.
Telling other babblers to "fuck off", "fuck themselves" or "suck my balls" is considered a personal attack, which is a big no-no here. Such behavior will get you suspended and or banned from the site.
You can choose to understand how things work here (by becoming rabble members, BTW, we all agree to follow babble policy) and behave accordingly, or you are free to go elsewhere to discuss your views. Your choice.
Suck my balls AND in conjunction, go fuck yourself.
Gone.
My prediction came true. If it smells like a pig...
Can you communicate with the dead as well? There's a few people I'd like to chat with.
Mods can be brutal too.
I can give it my best shot. Post the list and i'll see what I can do for you, Slumberjack.
Drop by the politics forum a little later then.
I'm predicting a couple of cocktails in my immediate future.
You're psychic!!! I was just thinking the same thing!!!
I felt that way when I lived in London... (87-92)
I know he's gone (thanks mods!) but I just need to say that Fallout's characterization of my post, in his post at #40 sure took some contortions to turn me into a pig apologist. Me!!
I would hate to have my reputation be so besmirched, so, for the record: I'm not, nor have I ever been, pro-police.
Okay I feel better now.
And, back to the topic of this thread ... we have the following ...
RCMP shock 11-year-old with stun gun (taser - NB) after man stabbed in Prince George
Toronto Police threaten detainees with tasers, one on the nexk and one on the genitals.
Recently in Windsor we had an officer convicted and sentanced to 5 months for assault, which he is of course appealing(because only criminals appeal) While this is short, it is the second longest term in 20 years for an officier. What gets me isn't this brutish thug who wears the blue, its the cover up of half a dozen fellow officiers and his commander that is the problem. Where is there sentance. This guy still has his job waiting after he completes his term. Did I mention its the second time he has committed this offence. Sickening.
Because of the recent fuck up our mayor a right wing asshole who controls most of council said a few disparaging remarks about our thug cops. For that they are saying he has to be removed from the police service boards. Hilarious, no complaints till its one of their own under scrutiny. The other reason sited was that the mayor is out of town a lot, strange that they didn't mention that EVER in the last 6 years when he was travelling abroad even more than currrently.
http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2012/05/02/overflow-crowd-delays-van-buskir...