Elizabeth May makes list of influential women

If I were E May, I'd be embarassed to be in the same company as Hillary Clinton.

OMGROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!

It actually shows that Newsweek knows absolutely nothing about Canada.  Although I hate her politics, Carole Taylor would be a choice for a woman of influence.   

But I would not post such a comment on the Newsweek site for fear it would be taken as a sign of an inferiority complex.

Who is Elizabeth May?

i think may is picked over jean because she s the leader of the party.  Jean is filling an appointed role so perhaps they viewed that as less influential than heading a party?

doesnt know how

I thought it was obvious what I was saying

Was it Yogi Berra who once said: "D'ey don't boo a bum..."? 

All this May-bashing sounds like 'sour grapes' to me...and possibly sexist.  Besides, what's wrong with being on a list with Hillary Clinton?  Many women worked hard, and were disappointed that the former First Lady wasn't on top of the ticket.  Even if you don't like her politics, a Clinton administration (had she prevailed) would have been a precedent equal to Obama's, I think.

If Elizabeth May was NDP leader, would anyone get away with some of the remarks issued in this thread?  I think it's more a case of 'recognition envy' than anything else...or maybe some simply just loath the fact that she's been acknowledged outside our parochial sandbox...by the American MSM, no less? OMG!

That she is 'American" has nothing to do with it, eh!!!!!!

Nothing Americans like more than acknowledging how wonderful they are, in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

ROFLMAO!!!

Well May did get a lot of media attention when May was first chosen but May used her time on television to say 'I'm Elizabeth May and I'm Green.'  May could have been very clear and aggressive but chose to be docile and play nice (and I would say that regardless of gender).

Go to the Green Party of Canada website; its says nothing in particular. If you are going to have a website use it to the fullest extent possible.

I would be very curious if anyone has a different take on their website actually so please go ahead.

Good one!

Well, I am not sure if I want to join in on this particular pile-up... but I have no problem at all suggesting that EM's publicist deserves some kind of award.

Are there any other nationalities that you disdain?  Anti-American rants are rather trite, don't you think?

I've never heard Elizabeth May proclaim her superiority.  Your point, (and Remind's) seems to be that Newsweek included her on their list because of her origins, and not for her accomplishments (which you both appear loathe to acknowledge).  Surely, as a "Yank", you must know some Americans that aren't chauvanistic, self-aggrandizing, imperialists?

Elizabeth May is the new improved Superduper Spoiler Candidate here in Saanich/Gulf Islands, who will guarantee Gary Lunn another term with 30% (or less) of the vote.

 So Newsweek likes her ?

Remember when David Orchard couldn't get ANY press, no matter how many people were following him around ?

Uh there is no comparison to be made between Nader and May. Nader is much more overtly progressive than May, has a wider base in the US than May has in Canada, Nader was much more able to project views, ideas, etc on to the public stage than May. Nader plays as hard as he can, May throws a snowball version of softball inside a sauna.  Again to stress, the differences are many but none of them concern gender.

That's likely how it went.

I guess the 2008 election was the only election where May was Green leader but that was their best placing, with 6.8% of the popular vote.

I was surprised by Elizabeth May's performance in the debate, too. She did very well and sounded like a real leftist. And it confounds me as to why she told voters to vote Liberal in Central Nova. The Liberal Party is not close to being left wing for a long time. Strange.

How so? No one ran for the Liberals in CN.

Moreover, no voted Liberal at her urging. :D

I think Nader probably has a perception of having a wider base than he actually does, because he gets a lot of media attention in the USA, and has for a long time. But this is related not so much to his political campaigns, but to his previous, very high-profile career as a consumer activist. I remember reading references to him in MAD Magazine when I was a kid, for example.

Have you ever heard of Stevie-boy Harper or "Count" Ignatieff?  It's like that.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see a problem with E May's environment cred - I think it's her political instincts that are missing.

This is close to what I thought-- although I was not that surprised as I had seen her debate before.

I think she likely thought that Dion was the most progressive leader on the environment that had come to the top of either the Cons or Liberals. She also understood that the Greens were not going to form a government and felt Dion could.

I don't have a lot of trouble with that logic to a point-- I did have a problem with the method Dion was going to use and I also have a problem with the concept of removing choices as a solution to the FPTP system. I don't like what I have heard about her democratic practices. And finally I am convinced that a sustainable physical environment can only be created with a sustainable social environment which is why I support the NDP instead which in my view is a party that seeks to balance both.

My memory isn't what it used to be. So I went to her bio on the Green website: http://greenparty.ca/leader/biography

I didn't see anything especially nefarious there, but it doesn't mention her position on abortion, which was a hot issue here on babble a while back.

We are dealing here with weird weather, though I wouldn't blame it on E May. Last year we had our mildest winter on record, and this year might be a repeat of that. A mild winter will kill the economy here which depends to a huge degree on folks using their snowmobiles to go up and down the coast either just visiting, or on business, or for recreation, especially to all the winter carnivals and hockey tournaments. Snowmobiles are really the only affordable travel means for many of our coast residents. But a mild winter also prevents folks from getting into the bush with their skidoos to cut firewood and wood for buildings. A mild winter also prevents proprietors from using their snow machines to get supplies during the time that the supply ship is tied up in Rimouski (mid-January to mid April).  Our mild winter last year was blamed on something called he Arctic Oscillation and the diversion of the Gulf Stream from the UK to our northern shores, meaning UK and Europe had our winter - and the same thing might happen this year.

That was the Green Party itself getting a lot of votes in BC; Nader has a wider institutional base meaning the organizations he belongs to have a bigger social reach. I was not referring to the vote but 2004 and 2008 you had campaigns by US Greens to vote for the Democratic Prez candidate so that again was not the measure I was using. More US'ers would recognize the name Ralph Nader than Canadians would recognize Elizabeth May. You would have to watch the CBC's Power and Politics and CTV's Powerplay practically to know who she is.

I don't think she told voters to vote Liberal in Central Nova.  There was no Liberal candidate to vote for.  In Central Nova she wanted people to vote Green (for her).

I think what you are referring to is when she told people in other ridings to vote Liberal if it was the best way of defeating the Conservatives in that riding.  She said that people should vote Green in ridings where the Greens could win.

What is May's response to the recent underperformance of the Greens in the by-elections?

"who cares"  

"did you know I got my name on the Newsweek influential list?"

"and it is all about getting me elected anyway, no other riding gets money"

I remember seeing my first Corvair as a kid ('62, I believe), and thought it beat our old Pontiac, or anything else parked in our neighbourhood.  I too have recently heard some revisionist praise for it's design and engineering; but then, I also hear that some car buffs are very much attached to their Edsels....

Don't apologize for the thread drift-- it's a welcome diversion from the venting of spleens, and so much Green bile.

Nothing prevents her from doing it, other than the time that may be better expended elsewhere.  Besides, there's already plenty of information about such projects out there.  Retrofitting initiatives are not exclusive to the Green Party.

What the Greens can do is provide a foundation for the youth of the party to build on.  Young people, and their children, will be the ones facing what seems inevitible.  Older, jaded farts, like me, will be long gone in 2050.  Anyway, young people don't need lessons on how to communicate, or to find and digest  complex information that's relevent to them-- and why should they trust 'anyone over 30'...as we used to say?

If E.M. wants to be their earth mother, and it's fine with them, then it's okay with me. My generation is lost...it's time for the kids to lead...before they too discover cynicism and treachery, like some of us.

Green is verdant and hopeful and easier on the eyes. 

--Why should the Green Party make videos about retrofitting?  You can find such information by watching "This Old House"...or visit your local builder's supply store? The Green Party is more than about saving energy (although that's important).

--Foudation-building is about getting the basics right before the framing process can begin.  Moreover, that foundation also needs to be placed on solid ground, and not the shifting sands of political expediency.

--As for 'Green bile': E.M.'s notable inclusion on a list of 'influential women' in an American mainstream publication, seems to have left some posters with acute digestive problems-- which, I believe, is related to the topic of this thread.  Perhaps it's 'Green envy' that necessitates the antacid.

"Green envy" *giggle*

It is amazing how some people see things.

Do you mean with each other? Or with the Liberals? 

Because May already reached out to the Libs. Remember that? If that was an example of "kindness, generousity, unity and understanding" then I'll have none, thanks.

Starting from the back end. "Carbon tax is more effective" is just an assertion. And its incorrect as well.

Reducing carbon requires both carbon pricing and aggressive green spending initiatives. Which kind of carbon pricing without the latter is a misguided question. The answer is whichever one will work, which means in practice which is politically achievable along with the green spending intitiatives. Carbon taxes worked well in Europe. But they didnt perform magic by themselves. They worked in concert with major green enrgy incentives- and Europeans who pay high taxes are not politically resistant to new taxes.

The Green Party knows well that resistance in Canada, so they looked for the easy way around by promising tax cuts equivalent to the carbon tax. Which means the flat government revenues we already have, enshrined. Which means no fiscal capacity for the initiatives in Green Vision.

And you are barking up the wrong tree if you think the reason high speed rail is not featured on the NDP site is because of ties to unions, because the CAW wants high speed rail too.

While there are a couple people around here who dump on anything about the Green Party- the really caustic stuff is directed at Elizabeth May herself. It is over the top, but she earned it. For all she has done, Elizabeth May has always also been a divisive figure. The talk to the contrary coming out of her mouth, is just good talk. She's living proof that people can be both personally charming and divisive. There is a trail behind her from within the Green Party all the way back to Cape Breton 30 years ago.

Thank you KenS for your thoughtful and reasonable response.

I completely agree with your analysis of the Greens and Liberals approach to a carbon tax: it does rely too much on the "invisible hand" of the market.  What I was trying to convey in my argument was that out of the two options, a carbon pricing scheme is better than cap and trade alone.  And I also agree that green energy initiatives or needed as well.  And yes, i too am worried about reducing government revenue to the point where we can't pay for essential services, which is why I said I don't agree with all of the Greens platform.

I don't disagree that the CAW wants high speed rail.  But absolutely nowhere on the NDP website under their environment policy do they even mention the possibility of high speed rail, because to propose such a thing may be politically problematic for many reasons, not least of which is that automobile manufacturers might try to encourage their union employees to stop supporting certain political parties by saying something along the lines of "Those crazy left parties want to take away your jobs building cars!" 

I know that I certainly wouldn't be opposed to the dismantling of the auto industry as it is.  There is too much emphasis in our consumer culture on private, well, everything.  Private transportation, private insurance, private childcare, private healthcare, private social security, etc.  To build a green/living/healthy society I think we need to reimagine our world from the ground up and that includes re-evaluating our need for certain luxuries, like private transportation, until such a time when private transportation would or could have a neglible impact on the health of the natural world.

E May may will be divisive, but what politician isn't!?  There are some pretty unsavory and opportunistic people in all the parties, NDP included.  She's a smart lady (when it comes to the environment, not necessarily politically) and she's done a lot of work in government to help with that acid rain treaty banning cfcs during the mulroney years, as well as protecting a number of environmentally sensitive areas.  Next to Suzuki and Maude Barlow, she's practically the only person in Canada who talks about climate change in every other sentence she utters.  She's well respected amongst international greens and Greens, including more leftish Greens like Cynthia McKinney and Wengari Maathi.

Well actually auto manufacturers are still closing up here despite the bail outs so if a Green Left was effective in reaching people they coud point that out.

As for EM being smat about the environment but not necessarily politically, well there is the rub: a political leader has to be smart politically (not to confused with cynical). You have to know how to reach people and to impact their thinking. She is not doing that; she is not in any way transformative.

Do any of you know of an effective green leader who is an MP under the first past the post electoral system, somewhere else in the world?  People make silly remarks about May being useless because she fails to get elected.  Under this system it is almost impossible for a green party to exist.

Almost every green voter knows that their vote will not elect anyone.  And yet the green vote in Canada is sometimes comparable to  or greater than the green vote in Germany or Ireland.   (Both countries have had green MP's in government because they do not use fptp) so everyone knows that a green vote there can  elect someone.

I am not too impressed with May myself but I think anything over 2% for  candidates who have VIRTUALLY NO CHANCE of being elected is a victory for the greens.  Rather than seeing spoiler candidates, you should view votes for the greens as potential votes for your party.

Spoiler candidate may mean that to YOU. What would a VOTER for that candidate think of you for saying that? 

Because spoiler candidate=traitor votes, doesn't it?  And if they know that you think of them as traitors, they will not like you too much, will they?

So by using that language, you are just making it harder and harder for them to ever vote for your lot.

IF you adapt greenER policys and shut up with the lippy spoiler candidate crap then you can get them back. 

If you see them as potential ndp voters, then you got to figure out why they bother to turn out and vote AGAINST the ndp?   Are those voters traitors to your party?   Or is your party just too pig headed and inward looking to get the message?

Maybe 1/3 of potential NDP voters just sit out the elections watching tv. Are they gently being traitors to your party too?

Has anyone done an analysis that shows how many GP MPs would have been elected in the last election under  PR? 

Thanks, Scott. Interesting.

Well, the fact  that the greens have ANY support at election time (given that they have no chance of ever electing anyone) is proof that she is being listened to by them.  So we might as well admit that she has followers.  So she had marked out the green agenda pretty well.

I think her followers may desert her when the NDP or Liberals take on green policys.  In BC last election, Gordon Campbell reached out (for green votes) by implimenting a carbon tax.  Carole James  on the other hand rejected green votes and threw out her own green voting wing with "axe the tax". 

So clearly, Campbell had access to a calculator and basic grasp of the voting math but James didn't.   So the reason the greens exist is more to do with the vacuum in the heads of certain leaders than anything else.

Many in the NDP now say we cannot have a carbon tax because it has to be revinue neutral. And that is regressive.

  Why do they say that? 

Why does it have to be revinue neutral?  Just because Campbells was revinue neutral and Dion's proposal was revinue neutral?

AND I still do not get the anger of the ndp over the carbon tax.  It is a consumption tax and the rich consume much more than we normal people do.

It just seems so lame and pathetic to me.

Why cannot the NDP plow their own course?  If we don't pay tax, the country will go broke.  And if we don't tax the rich, pretty soon 6 people will own all of Canada. Thats the trend.  A few vastly wealthy people and the rest of us with a hundred cents between us.

Surely it is time to tax rich people again?  Surely it is time for the ndp to have some green policys? 

You got to spell them out.   It cannot just be aspirations.

Surrender (with no quarter given) seems like a bad idea.  The greens are an indentifiable group in just about every country. Not so the NDP.

Comparable parties are pretty rare. 

Some like to compare yourself to British labour.  They are much more like the federal liberals here.

If the ndp want to absorb the greens, the only way is to become a lot greener.

That is the wrong attitude. You either have to figure out how to convert their followers or move on. Coercion will not work.

They seem like low hanging fruit but you seem unable to pick them.   Don't blame the green leadership for that. 

Your picking techniques are not working. You need to change the technique.

People have cried that sad bitter song for a long long time.   If you want the greens in the sack, caveman methods are not applicable.

I guess the Greens are just a cross we have to bear.

I really have not read that anywhere including here. The CAW as a union (and Bruce Allen has written a lot about the problems of the CAW as a rep of auth workers' interests on his blog - I wish we could get him to come to Rabble.ca) came out against forcing the auto industry to become more green and specifically against forcing automakers to create more fuel-effiencient autos. Buzz Hargrove, when leader of the CAW, actually withdrew its automatic support for the NDP to give a CAW jacket to Paul Martin (figuratively and literally).

Where are you seeing this about Green voters specicifically targetting auto workers for retribution? This is not a rhetorical question but is asked sincerely; I like and respect your posts elsewhere but I just do not see where this concept is based upon.

Sorry but again this is the very thing that Bruce Allen has been talking about and he has expressed frustration on how much resistance there is to this in the current version of the CAW.